Hi guys,
Some advice please! I'm in the process of replacing my rear crossmember on a pre-facelift 2000 model - I've undone all of the bolts, arms, etc, and the thing's not attached to the car anymore. It seems impossible to get the thing off with the exhaust & torsion bar still in place though! s:cry: :cry: s:cry: From what I've seen on here, it should be possible to remove it without resorting to taking off bottom of the exhaust, which I'd prefer not to do. It just won't seem to fit through the available space. Am I missing something?
if I do have to take off the pipe, will I also have to re-seal with new gaskets, etc?
Any advice greatly appreciated!
Cheers
you will need to remove the cat
I have no idea what you mean by torsion bar
Torsion bar would be an alternative description for anti roll bar.
Thanks for the replies - managed to get the cat off without too much difficulty, and the crossmember came out a treat. She's all put back together with a new crossmember (minus the massive holes), so I'm a happy man.
s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:
Good job on getting it all back together. :-) :-) :-)
Are you planning on getting the geometry checked out?
How do you get to the damn cat to backbox bolts? Everything else undone.
Access is from under the car and you will need a long extension bar and wrench onto what is a bolt head.
I can't remember the size but you will need a suitable socket (I prefer 6 point on tight nuts/ bolt heads as less chance of rounding off the nut/head).
I may have also used a flexible joint but am not certain on that.
Torque figures are 62Nm/46lbft for replacement.
T17451-22060 gasket which cost me £15.02 in April 2013 from MrT.
14 mm and get some copper grease on there. Mines on and off every other day for work at the moment and it helps a lot s:) :) s:)
I took the bumper off because I couldn't get a spanner or socket on the bolt head.
What happened to the list of torque specs on the bolts? I'm sure there used to be a reference guide? Does anyone have them? Thanks
I search for the torque figures relative to any work planned/ in progress.
Some I have got from here others from an eBay CD.
Found it. m http://spyderchat.com/forums/showthread ... ompilation (http://spyderchat.com/forums/showthread.php?20795-Torque-Spec-Compilation) m
Well I thought everything was undone but how do I get this off? The bolt at the other end is well and truly seized and there isn't enough room to get an impact socket in.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/04/ery9ehyv.jpg)
Fork type ball joint splitter?
I'll get one of these tomorrow. m http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stor ... &langId=-1 (http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductMobileDisplay?catalogId=10151&storeId=10001&productId=216931&categoryId=255216&langId=-1) m
If you're nearby tomorrow Steve, give me a call and pick one up. Should have cooled down now after splitting Nic's balls on Sunday!
Can fish out torquey numbers for you too.
Thanks for text Ste. Torque numbers would be good. Any tips on getting this free once it is off the car? (http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/04/je3ypety.jpg)
I managed to remove with 2 spanners may have used me long torque wrench as i think there 17mm?
Only 1 of 4 has come out. The nuts are off the other 3 but bolts aren't budging and not enough enough room for impact socket and torque wrench.
They can be insanely stubborn. You stand a better chance with them removed with the beam and in clear air away from enginey bits.
If its the cam bolt, you need to get it to the point where the cam plate lifts enough to allow it to turn, the others should be free to turn from the off with persuasion (aka long bar). Just work it and work it with a good hex impact socket. I suppose you can lose the indents on the crossmember to faciltate rotation if you're not intending to re-use it!
The fun begins once you manage to get the bolt turning and drawn out slightly, as it'll likely be trying to bring the metal core of the bush with it. They can seize together something rotten. Keep 'gasing it and working it back and forth to break them apart. There's a sense of joy when it starts to come out. Go steady and persevere - its potentially hot and noisy work.
Sometimes they're beyond retrieval, but that's life.
If you need help or spare parts at short notice, shout up.
I'll post up torques for the arm bolts etc tomorrow.
Thanks Ste! It has been quite therapeutic until now! Pressure is on because The car has to be out by Friday when new owners move in!
Quote from: "Two's Company"Thanks Ste! It has been quite therapeutic until now! Pressure is on because The car has to be out by Friday when new owners move in!
And ready for ding day? s:) :) s:)
All in foot pounds.....
Cam plate NUT 64
Ball joint nut 36 (wedge the balljoint shaft in tightly to prevent it spinning while nutting it)
Lower arm inner BOLT 64
Lower arm outer BOLT 76
(for completeness)
Front strut rod inner BOLT 58
Front strut rod outer BOLT 58
Subframe mounting bolts 59
Abs wire mounting bracket. not specified.
Rear engine mount centre NUT 69
Quote from: "jinxedkitten"Quote from: "Two's Company"Thanks Ste! It has been quite therapeutic until now! Pressure is on because The car has to be out by Friday when new owners move in!
And ready for ding day? s:) :) s:)
Exactly - otherwise there is an alignment space going!
Hope you don't mind the hijack, but I'm planning very Similar work....
I am replacing all the lower arms for adjustable ones. I know my cam bolts are seized into the bush (like te photo and info above) but I don't know to what extent, yet.
All things considered, do you guys think it would be easier if I just got a replacement cross member and swapped it all out?
I'd say that depends on:
a) the state of your crossmember - will it last as long as you want it to? worth keeping or not?
b) how much work you want to do - hopefully all will go well. Potentially you could be sweating and swearing for a long time though!
c) whether freeing up the cam bolts without damaging the crossmember is possible - again, hopefully doable. Potentially it won't work or you'll get to a point where a new crossmember is the better/necessary option
d) how long you can keep the car off the road if you have to - if you have time to give it a punt without shelling out for un-needed parts, go for it. If you're wealthy and pushed for time, buy new stuff!
e) How long you plan to keep the car - if you're modding, thats a good sign, and perhaps it'll sway you towards replacing the beam too.
I'd always recommend having a go, or at least assessing it to the point where you know that having a go will be futile or only a short-lived win.
* circumstances may vary! Its your shout.
Quote from: "Meeerrrk"Hope you don't mind the hijack, but I'm planning very Similar work....
I am replacing all the lower arms for adjustable ones. I know my cam bolts are seized into the bush (like te photo and info above) but I don't know to what extent, yet.
All things considered, do you guys think it would be easier if I just got a replacement cross member and swapped it all out?
I have just done this mod on my subframe with top speed arms
the nuts bolts were all seized in to the bush was a bit of a nightmare
but a couple of them came off no problem but a few were stuck fast, they had corroded into the bush actually forming a thread of some sorts in the bushes which allowed me to wind the bolts out like they were on a threaded hole s:) :) s:) I did remove the subframe and arms in 1 unit then removed all the amrs I can imagine it would be a pig of a job to do with it on the car
but I did get stuck with 2 of the bolts, hammering them, then impact gun wouldn't move, cut them off in the end and just got the subframe power coated hopefully it wont rot from the inside out now s:) :) s:)
if I did it again I probably would just get a new subframe as there less than 100 quid, but I did have to get some new bolts from Toyota which were like 5 quid each s:( :( s:(
cheers tommy
Thanks for the reply.
The car is just a track day toy so it doesn't get used often between two other cars and my bike - so being off the road isn't a problem.
I plan on keeping it for a while, certainly in the early stages of development
Current crossmember looks Ok but was advisory on MOT, it seems solid but is starting to show signs
I've seen a recon one for sale on here for about £80...I just wonder if having it to hand wouldn't be the worst thing?
Other than the 4 control arms, engine mount and dropping the exhaust , is there much else to taking the cross member off?
Thanks again
Quote from: "Meeerrrk"Thanks for the reply.
I've seen a recon one for sale on here for about £80...I just wonder if having it to hand wouldn't be the worst thing?
Other than the 4 control arms, engine mount and dropping the exhaust , is there much else to taking the cross member off?
Thanks again
if I seen a spare subframe for 80 quid I would buy it s:) :) s:)
there are a few extra rubbish little heat shields attached to the subframe but that's about it as far as I can remember, although I didn't remove my exhaust to drop the subframe just took the decat off
cheers tommy
Yep to what tommy says.
Quote from: "Meeerrrk"Other than the 4 control arms, engine mount and dropping the exhaust [CAT] , is there much else to taking the cross member off?
Nope.
ABS brackets to come off too. Simples
Perhaps easier to handle with the airbox heatshield removed from the top of the beam first. Not 100% necessary if you've got enough clearance.
[edit]and chassis brace bars beed to be unbolted too (facelift only).
Starting to sound like a bit of a no brainer to be honest!
Do people normally have trouble getting the actual cross member mounting bolts out?
They can be tight as they're threadlocked and fine-pitch thread.
Usually come out OK ..... although they can tighten after a few turns as the rusted ends of the bolt come back through the thread. Work 'em!
Also, watch out for stale trapped water pouring out of the chassis rails when you remove them. Had that once - its not pleasant!
Great tips, thank you.
I think, all things considered and the advice here I will get a cross member too. So I'll drop the arms from the hub end, drop the cross member, fit new arms and replacement cross member with all new bolts ( have these already from CTP).
Should make life easier.
Twos company..... How are you getting on? Fork splitter work ok?
The fork splitter was magic. I got a laser one from halfords. Worked instantly. I can't get the camber arms out of the subframe now it is off the car. Wabbitkilla and Spit to the rescue with camber arms and camber bolts. Knackered so will reassemble tomorrow night.
Toe control arms, you're tired .... I'll let you off s:wink: :wink: s:wink: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Everyone should consider this really and it's where it all began for me, the bolts holding the arms to the subframe tend to rust and weld themselves in place. Result?Lt is a lot of hard work or cutting to get them out. Plenty of copper slip putting new ones in seems to solve the problem for future.
This is the problem that has kicked this work off for me; took car to have alignment done and bolts are siezed.
It's cost me £500 and counting so far! (Ok I purchased adjustable arms)
Quote from: "Meeerrrk"This is the problem that has kicked this work off for me; took car to have alignment done and bolts are siezed.
It's cost me £500 and counting so far! (Ok I purchased adjustable arms)
Which adjustable arms, and have you fitted them yet?
I got hard race arms and no, hence asking all the questions above to get all the info straight in my head before attempting it!
Why...what horrible news are you going to break to me?!
If you're spending 500 on arms you might as well spend another 300 on a brand new subrame plus new bolts. then it doesn't matter if you can't get the arms off the subframe. in hindsight i should have done this!
The arms were £300, all new fixing bolts £110, wheel alignment will be circa £75
I'm getting a 2nd hand subframe, I don't really want to spend another £300 right now!
I got a new set of arms from Top Speed Pro1, turns out the pillow balls on the camber arms are too big to fit in the subframe .... i'm going to have to grind a little off them.
Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"I got a new set of arms from Top Speed Pro1, turns out the pillow balls on the camber arms are too big to fit in the subframe .... i'm going to have to grind a little off them.
Oh dear god, that doesn't sound fun. Although I read that SteveB had the same problem on another thread while searching around for some stuff...might be worth asking how he overcame that issue.
At least with a rear subframe I can try it all off the car first.
I suspect the arms are all made in the same place to be honest
Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"I got a new set of arms from Top Speed Pro1, turns out the pillow balls on the camber arms are too big to fit in the subframe .... i'm going to have to grind a little off them.
that's a shame mine fitted a dream, I must of got lucky
cheers tommy
Quote from: "tommyzoom99"that's a shame mine fitted a dream
Are you on a pre-facelift? I wonder if the frame bracketry is different from the FL subframe because of the FL arm mountings. Doubt it affects the height of the slot for the lower arm but you never know. Nic's Pro1 ends were way too big to fit without fouling.....by quite a margin.
We measured up various arms to alert folk to check their clearance before taking the plunge to purchase. Megans ends are 5mm diameter oversize from stock, Pro1s are 10mm oversize.
Do you have the measurements, I'd like to measure mine and check?
Thanks
Quote from: "spit"Quote from: "tommyzoom99"that's a shame mine fitted a dream
Are you on a pre-facelift? I wonder if the frame bracketry is different from the FL subframe because of the FL arm mountings. Doubt it affects the height of the slot for the lower arm but you never know. Nic's Pro1 ends were way too big to fit without fouling.....by quite a margin.
We measured up various arms to alert folk to check their clearance before taking the plunge to purchase. Megans ends are 5mm diameter oversize from stock, Pro1s are 10mm oversize.
Blimley that's some seriously oversized part how did topspeed get it so wrong,
Mine is 2003 FL and poped in fine, I only brought them recently so maybe the fixed the issue?
Cheers Tommy
Drove my car for first time today since track day and realised exhaust is blowing, traced to the decat pipe, so removed it and while I was there had a crack at the main cross member bolts, all cracked off, so happy days.
Shame I need to refit my cat though! Will leave it off to make cross member job easier.
Picking up a cross member this weekend, and so should have everything needed.
Thanks for all the info in this thread, gents s:D :D s:D
Quote from: "Two's Company"The fork splitter was magic. I got a laser one from halfords. Worked instantly. I can't get the camber arms out of the subframe now it is off the car. Wabbitkilla and Spit to the rescue with camber arms and camber bolts. Knackered so will reassemble tomorrow night.
Great news, did you get the scissor type one that you linked to in the earlier post?
Will get myself one this weekend if so s:D :D s:D
Are you done with yours now?
Quote from: "Meeerrrk"Do you have the measurements, I'd like to measure mine and check?
Thanks
Oops no - I just did a quick'n'dirty span of the stock diameter and reset the caliper to zero to measure the difference of the others. We were more concerned about the difference than the actual diameter s:D :D s:D
I'll measure the stock diameter and you can figure it out from there!
On ok don't worry, Thanks anyway s:) :) s:)
Yes i got the laser Ball joint splitter. £22 from Halfords i think. It's back on but one of the threads on the crossmember bolts is cabbaged. Only noticed the crossed threads when I tried to put it back in. Doh.
Picked up a 2nd hand crossmember today, just tarting it up and will go for it next weekend s:) :) s:)
Done it today no dramas, thanks so much for the info and tips in this thread s:) :) s:)
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