Hello to all.
I don't know where to start... I guess I'll start by letting you know that I'm not a native English speaker, so please apologize me for my crude english.
I've joined your club about one month and a half ago and bought my 00 Black MR2 (HT + AC + LS) a bit after (August 24th). I know I haven't contributed anything for the forum, neither have I properly introduced my car, but I that's easily explained by the fact that I still have no knowledge to share and because I still didn't have the time to take proper pictures to show you.
This post, unfortunately, serves another purpose... To ask for your moral and tecnhical advice.
Yesterday, my car's engine delivered its soul to the creator. I was travelling up north, on the highway, at about 160 Kph (100 mph) when a subtle "clankening" sound begun. At that moment, no other symptoms showed, i.e. no power loss, no overheating, nothing... As I began to cut on the throttle to stop and check what on earth could be happening, I heard a loud and sudden BANG, the gear shifter jumped out of gear, lots of white smoke started blasting through the engine lid and the engine died. These events took place in less than 10 seconds. I then got out of the car and was immediatelly struck by the burnt scent that surrounded the car. When I opened the engine compartment lid, the engine sounded like a fireplace (with all those clicks and pops). By that time, the temperature indicator tried to break the scale, while the radiator fan started blowing only to stop about half an hour later when the battery finally decided to give up.
I believe this is only the beggining of a headache that's bound to last a few months... Here's the rest of my sad story for the time being:
This morning i went to the local "MR.T" garage to get a quotation for the "worst case scenario" and this is what I got (I know the component name are probably all wrong. They're my best translation from portuguese):
Excluding VAT (19%)
Pre-assembled block x1: €2147,93 £1460.59
Engine head x1: €1031,79 £701.62
Gasket Kit x1: €153.56 £104.42
Intake Valves x8: €138.88 £94.44
Exhaust valves x8: €138.88 £94.44
Total, including VAT (19%): €4296.66 £2921.73
Of course I'd still have to pay for all the work, for wich they plan about 30 hours at 30 Euros each. Then Again this may all be wrong, because I still didn't take the car for them to examine.
Any suggestions? Do you guys know any company from which I can buy an engine?
Thanks in advance!
Carlos Alcobia
I really feel for you, this engine blow up buisness seems to be happening way too much.
Sounds like you could do with somebody robbing your car! (i'm not suggesting this)
Hi Carlos,
Sorry to hear about your exploding car s:( :( s:(
I have nothing to offer in the way of help, just wanted to welcome you and to say not to worry about not posting anything before. It's a shame your first post has to be such a sad one s:( :( s:(
Your English is very good so no need to worry about that either s:) :) s:)
Good luck in getting it all sorted and keep smiling, it'll get there in the end s:) :) s:)
Quote from: "odub"Sounds like you could do with somebody robbing your car! (i'm not suggesting this)
Thanks for "not suggesting" it. But i guess I'm too honest (or stupid) to try to pull out a feat like that. s:cry: :cry: s:cry:
Quite right too,
You should be able to get insurance for this sort of thing
Quote from: "Hanslow"(...) just wanted to welcome you (...) Good luck in getting it all sorted and keep smiling, it'll get there in the end s:) :) s:)
Thanks!
Quote from: "odub"Quite right too,
You should be able to get insurance for this sort of thing
I know... It covers almost anything, except mechanical breakdown.
If I was in your position, I'd be interested to know what caused this catastrophic failure and whether it could have been prevented or not. I would be extremely interested to see if the problem could have been caused by pre-cat failure ( how did you know that topic was going to crop up? s;) ;) s;) ) and what the Toyota dealer has to say about it.
Quote from: "Hanslow"If I was in your position, I'd be interested to know what caused this catastrophic failure and whether it could have been prevented or not. I would be extremely interested to see if the problem could have been caused by pre-cat failure ( how did you know that topic was going to crop up? s;) ;) s;) ) and what the Toyota dealer has to say about it.
This morning, when I talked with the Toyota engineer that gave me the quotation for the worse case scenario, I brought up the pre-cat issue and he agreed that that may have been the reason (though, as I expected, he had never heard of such a failure on the '2). He still wants to perform a "forensic" s:? :? s:? exam on the car to be sure. He finds weird that a failure might happen so quickly without the engine having some kind of defect or some bad abuse from the previous owner. s:| :| s:|
I don't want to take car to Toyota right now, because I want to find the most cost-wise solution before I commit to something. Also, the car is already 4 years old, so I think my chances of getting Toyota to cover the costs are near to impossible. s:cry: :cry: s:cry:
If you got the work done elsewhere, for probably much cheaper money, would the Toyota engineer be interested in having your old engine as a donation for investigation?
By rights you will still own the dead engine as it is already paid for. If they were interested in investigating it anyway for their own purposes then it might be worthwhile pursuing this avenue. Downside is, if you are not giving them the rebuild work, they may well not be interested. Personally, if I was in their position, I would like to take a look to see if there was a common fault....which is probably why I am not in the motoring industry s;) ;) s;)
I still find it amazing that so many Toyota places have not heard of the pre-cat issue. OK it's not confirmed in any way that this is indeed your problem, but there appear to have been enough cases around the globe to at least sow the seeds of doubt and prompt some investigation.
Sorry to here your news. Do you know the history of the car and if you purchased it in August can you not get the seller to accept some of the cost?
Right i'm gutting my precats this weekend.
Tommorow, I'll try to get a quotation from a company that prepares engines for competition. From previous experiences (thankfully not with cars of mine) I know that they are a bit cheaper than Toyota, and besides, they're specialized in working with engines.
Another approach that I still want to investigate is to source a complete engine, either new or remanufactured from someone who can avail for its quality... You guys wouldn't by any means know any reputable company that provides such engines? I remember that some of the members have replaced their engines...
Quote from: "Peter Weeks"Sorry to here your news. Do you know the history of the car and if you purchased it in August can you not get the seller to accept some of the cost?
I bought the car directly from its previous owner: a banker that used it to stroll around at the weekends. I just don't know his definition of strolling... s:| :| s:| In Portugal, with our wonderful "Ministry of Justice", trying to get the seller to accept some of the costs would mean another BIG headache.
Toyota confirmed that the car's Periodical Inspections were all performed by them (last checked on January 2004) and the National Insurance Authority shows no records of this car ever being involved in some kind of accident.
What a dreadful experience s:( :( s:(
I hope you are able to source a engine from a scrapyard, if I recall it is used in other Toyotas so you may have more luck.
Although this has been posted before, another owner had a similar experience at one point to yourself, although in their case the new replacement engine still managed to turn into a BBQ later on (maybe it was incorrectly installed s:? :? s:? )
http://www.topgear.com/content/my_topgear/duffers/E6/A7/03/
Best of luck
Quote from: "so.simple"a banker that used it to stroll around at the weekends. I just don't know his definition of strolling....
Cruise/cruising s:wink: :wink: s:wink: Really sorry to hear about this and I hope it gets sorted in your favour. s:evil: :evil: s:evil:
I think I'd complain that this is not good enough for a 4yr old car. Either through the dealer, or directly to Toyota Customer Relations.
This may not get you anywhere, but it's possible that they'll offer to contribute towards the repair. If they do, then you may be able to get Toyota to carry out the repair for less than a third party(?)
I don't know what Toyota are like for this sort of thing, but Alfa Romeo contributed towards repairs on my last car, even though it was out of warranty. One major difference was that my AR was an import so only had 1yr warranty, and the problems arose within 3yrs.
Either way, welcome to club, and best of luck with the repairs!
A big and sincere "Thank you" for all of your positive feedback. This is really the friendliest and most helpfull forum I've ever seen, and its all your fault. s:D :D s:D
s:o :o s:o s:D :D s:D
Guess what... I just got a call from Toyota telling me that they'll either pay for the whole repair or divide costs with me (with me paying for the work) depending on administrative approval!
I have to admit that I never ever expected them to behave this way with a car that's one year and a half past warranty! s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
Thats what I call great service! s:) :) s:)
I'm happy! s:D :D s:D
Sounds like a good result! s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Sounds like you have a good dealer, so.simple. Mine has been very good to me, and even though my 3-year bumper-to-bumper warranty is out, they replaced my engine lid latch for free when it started acting up. The sense I get from my dealership is that they're hoping to keep me as a lifelong customer and are willing to forego a few pennies here and there to keep me happy. They (the garage boys) also seem thrilled to see the Spyder when I bring it in for oil changes and scheduled maintenance. It's as if the car is the flagship of their entire line.
I've been told that whenever I bring my car in, other customers innundate the staff with questions regarding it; some have queried as to whether mine is for sale or not. Not!
We'll just have to see what happens when they notice I've gutted my precats. I'm hoping they don't.
Actually I begun by calling the portuguese importer's technical department and explained the sequence of events that preceeded the "death" s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted: of the engine. I had the best possible service over the phone (pacient, friendly and calm) s:o :o s:o and was advised to take the car to my local dealer (to be examined), so that they (the technical department) could follow up to see what they could do for me. So it's just not the dealer wanting to keep me as costumer (I have never been - bought the car used) but the portuguese importer (Salvador Caetano) having a top quality s:!: :!: s:!: costumer-satisfaction policy.
I always had a great opinion about Toyota and this only confirms that I was never wrong! I'll be telling everyone they should get a Toyota!
s:D :D s:D
Quote from: "so.simple"Also, the car is already 4 years old, so I think my chances of getting Toyota to cover the costs are near to impossible. s:cry: :cry: s:cry:
I love it when I'm wrong! s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
That's fantastic news for both you and the rest of us s:) :) s:)
For you, you get your car fixed by the dealer with some/all the cost covered s:) :) s:)
For us (and you) it should allow the engineers to have a good poke and look around your blown engine to try and find what caused it to go. You'll have to see if you can get hold of a copy of the report and let us know what they thought. Should you suggest to them the possibility of the pre-cat issue?
Let's hope they can fix your car in good time and give some positive feedback on the problem s:) :) s:)
Quote from: "Hanslow"(..) Should you suggest to them the possibility of the pre-cat issue?
Let's hope they can fix your car in good time and give some positive feedback on the problem s:) :) s:)
Thanks! Believe me... I was VERY inquisitive about the pre-cat issue, but they say that was not what caused my problem. This morning, the Toyota engineer who examined my car let me have a look into the engine from below, with the sump removed, and explained me what he thinks was the problem. The "clankening" sound was caused by a connecting rod breaking and knocking all over the cylinder. The white smoke I talked about came from a hole opened in the engine block by the broken rod He told me this was caused by a sudden oil starvation (reason unknown).
I then brought up the pre-cat issue again (I was starting to become a real PITA) and he showed me the pre-cats. They were in pristine condition. So, for the time being, I won't be mentioning the pre-cat issue anymore.
Anyway... The most important thing for me now is that I'm going to have my car running again at little or no cost at all. It's going to be my first engine break-in. s:D :D s:D
!
I reckon he swapped you pre-cats with some new ones whilst you wern't looking.
Quote from: "odub"!
I reckon he swapped you pre-cats with some new ones whilst you wern't looking.
That would be a good thing! Right? But I dont't think they would need to go that way after accepting to pay for all or some of the costs.
My opinion is: Toyota is certainly aware that something is wrong with some of the 1ZZFE engines (incorrect bore dimensions, dubious quality pre-cats, anything) and that explains why they accept to swap so many engines with little or no hassle at all.
Imagine you run a company with a great reputation, and suddenly become aware that a percentage of units of one of your products is defective.. What do you do? Do you go public saying "Hey, we messed up!" Or do you shut up about it and simply accept replacing all of those that have the defect without taking an official position about the issue?
But this is just a theory. Bottom line is: my "Precious" is coming home!
Really good news mate s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Quote from: "so.simple"Quote from: "odub"!
I reckon he swapped you pre-cats with some new ones whilst you wern't looking.
That would be a good thing! Right? But I dont't think they would need to go that way after accepting to pay for all or some of the costs.
My opinion is: Toyota is certainly aware that something is wrong with some of the 1ZZFE engines (incorrect bore dimensions, dubious quality pre-cats, anything) and that explains why they accept to swap so many engines with little or no hassle at all.
Imagine you run a company with a great reputation, and suddenly become aware that a percentage of units of one of your products is defective.. What do you do? Do you go public saying "Hey, we messed up!" Or do you shut up about it and simply accept replacing all of those that have the defect without taking an official position about the issue?
But this is just a theory. Bottom line is: my "Precious" is coming home!
it all depends on your Toyota importer and how willing they are to talk with you. If the issue is something that you have not affected, Toyota is usually willing to fix it up, partially at least... We had one LC100 at 30,000km after the warranty and car never got properly serviced yet Toyota agreed to cover 50% of the cost. I know that around here (eastern europe) Toyota has by far the best warranty coverage and are by far the easiest to deal for warranties...
s:D :D s:D I have my car back! s:) :) s:)
Went to pick it up this tuesday night, and it looked ok! s:D :D s:D But had to get back to the dealer yesterday's morning to present a few minor complaints and ask them why was the diaper filled with engine oil!!! s:evil: :evil: s:evil: They immediatly verified that an "oil retentor" wasn't correctly tightned s:?: :?: s:?: and corrected it, cleaned the diaper (very baby like s:wink: :wink: s:wink: ) and refilled with oil. Just have to get back there after completing 1000Km to have the engine inspected and to have some scratches in the engine bay repaired.
I'm happy with the results. The car seems more powerfull now and the exhaust note has much more grunt. s:o :o s:o (Sorry for the bad english). Also don't forget that I did not pay a single cent. s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
well done Toyota, i hope they're as kind and generous when/if my goes... s:? :? s:?
Glad to hear that you have her back safe and sound; enjoy s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Thanks to all of you for investing loads of your precious time sharing information with others. If it wasn't for this group and all of its most valuable articles, I would have never had enough arguments to get my car repaired at no cost.
Since my tecnhical expertise is so low s:oops: :oops: s:oops: , I guess the only way I can pay you back is by inviting you to send me a PM whenever you may come to Portugal s8) 8) s8) . Pints of beer and barbecue will be provided! s:D :D s:D
Hi Mate,
Just read your Thread - Great news on the "New" engine and not having to pay.
Mines in with Oil Loss problems at the moment... the engine is on a bench in bits at the moment.
Think Toyota UK and extended warranty are gonna argue who's paying, all I know is that I'll just about have a new engine in a week.
(Plus Pre-cats done, last month!)
Cheers
Darren
Keep up informed how you are getting on with your now new born toyota, nappy and all s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Funny how they keep saying they never heard about this problem! s:? :? s:? Hope yours gets solved with as little hassle as mine! s:) :) s:)
Tomorrow, I'll try to do the exact same trip I was doing when the engine blew s:roll: :roll: s:roll: . It's the perfect road to bring out engine problems, I suppose: 300 Km of curvy highway s:shock: :shock: s:shock: with an ever increasing altitude when travelling up north. Portugal would resemble a wedge if we could view it from the side s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
I'll tell you how it went afterwards
My comments: s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted: s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted: s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted: s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted: s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
My face still hurts because of the stupid smile s:oops: :oops: s:oops: that I always have when the MR2 meets curvy roads.