Last night, my Son came round. We got talking about induction kits and he mentioned he has a K&N cone I can have.
I was looking at putting the Car Builder one in, but hey, gift horses and mouths etc.
I've ordered one of these - I'll need it anyway
(http://i.imgur.com/qIU7Ltym.jpg)
I've read through about 10 threads about how people have done it.
Am I right in thinking, I need:
One of these
(http://i.imgur.com/jk2hff7m.jpg)
Some of these:
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NTYwWDM3OQ==/z/P6YAAOSwKtVWw23v/$_35.JPG)
and one of these
(http://i.imgur.com/yUU0lZsm.jpg)
And simply put it behind the battery? Or will I need some additional ducting?
Will a system like jr1mr2's setup cause me any problems like this:
(http://i.imgur.com/kBfzm9ll.jpg)
Or should I go for an alloy surround like AndyM
(http://i.imgur.com/nIKT4nul.jpg)
It all seems far too simple!
MAF housing should have some veins in to make sure the air is being monitored by the maf accurately.
Recommend behind the battery with a heat-shield as long as it's not too restrictive.
Silicone needs approx 30 degree turn in it .... I'm struggling to remember the exact diameter of pipe.
I'm linking your thinking.
Thanks s:) :) s:)
The chrome bit at the top is the spectre MAF tube that I think quite a few people have used (has to be ordered from the US though).
I'm hoping the MAF will fit straight on - Spectre say it's the correct one for the MR2.
Nice idea... . here's what I don't get though.
When you remove the back left quarter panel it's painfully obvious that air is coming in and going "past" the intake for the airpipe...
If you're going through the effort of making this, wouldnt it make sense to shove the intake right behind the actual side vent? That way you actually get the outside air hitting the intake directly?
Quote from: "jvanzyl"Nice idea... . here's what I don't get though.
When you remove the back left quarter panel it's painfully obvious that air is coming in and going "past" the intake for the airpipe...
If you're going through the effort of making this, wouldnt it make sense to shove the intake right behind the actual side vent? That way you actually get the outside air hitting the intake directly?
actually, I'm not quite sure I get this now (I thought I did)
So what you're saying is to put it right at the back left, behind the wheel arch? I know others do this.
Surely, you can open up the vent to feed air straight onto the filter?
s:-D :-D s:-D ok what I'm saying is that the default situation is the entrance to the air filter system is positioned about 30cm (I think) back from the side vent, not only that it's perpendicular to it! So you're relying on the engines ability to suck the air in at whatever temperature it's reached by that stage.
With your last pic, why not go the whole hog and keep the pipe going (along with the shiny scoop job) to right behind the left side air vent? That way you're getting outside air hitting it at whatever your vehicle speed is, and it'll be "fresh"?
I'm not talking about blocking up the entire side vent with your scoop thing - but either way, you'd get the Bernoulli effect with the air passing through to the engine so I'm sure it'll be fine...
Does that help?
There was many a diacussion a few years back about this.
Basically the oem intake relies heavily on the intake vacuum generated by the engine.
It is pipes to just behind the send vent so that's where it gets its air. The side vent is not a high pressure area, though it does provide air for cooling and obviously the intake.
Ok so if you're going to "improve" the intake it's a valid area to take air from, and on the move it gets a reasonable supply of cool air without too much weather or debris. Quite a few of us have done this and the PPE intake is designed to fit here - it's been considered one of the best (and most expensive) intake kits available.
The AEM long intake takes air from the void behind the wheel arch liner to the rear of the nsr wheel .... this however suffers more danger from being submerged if you go through deep water or big puddles. And it's a looooong intake.
The Apexi intake takes air from the area vacated by the oem airbox with a big very efficient filter (same one used in the PPE) and has a heat shield. Unfortunately because it's only partly shrouded and doesn't suck air from the side vent then it suffers from heat soak ... hot engine bay air being taken in. It sounds great but loses you power on hot days.
The K&N 57i intake is similar to the Apexi, uses a heat barrier but suffers similar problems.
The ARC intake mimic the oem but with a better filter, it can be plumbed to the original side pod intake but generally people didn't do that ... a pity really since then it's suffering the same problems are the Apexi, and K&N.
Someone did some dyno testing and came to the conclusion the standard intake on an NA car actually does the best job, arguably a more expensive filter helps and the de-restriction of the TRD pipe or Markiii pipe encourages some nicer noises and slightly improved power.
They all make some nice noises ... I actually opted to use a Lotus Typhoon intake modified to fit the 2 .... sounds terrific but it's hard to get an unrestricted air flow from the side pod.
jvanzyl; Ah, that's originally what I thought you meant. Indeed, I don't want to block the vent, but you're right - I may make the silicon tube longer than those two pictures.
Wabbitkilla; do you have any pictures of yours? I don't think I've seen any (although my head is absolutely full of hundreds of posts)
Ultimately, I'm not looking for lots more power, I just find the stock noise a bit tame. On the flip side, I don't want to go to huge expense (and upset my neighbours) with a cobra exhaust!
I think this is a relatively easy thing to do myself, although I would also use the opportunity to clean the MAF and I think that might be slightly more difficult.
Sorry it's the Hurricane kit .... fully enclosed filter.
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/The%20Car/DSC_0025_zpsgrunfcjw.jpg)
Linky to the shop (http://www.elise-shop.com/hurricane-induction-kit-for-vvti-engine-elise-111r-exige-s2-federal-elise-p-250.html)
The Silicone is an addition 30 degree bend cut to the length needed for the install.
Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"Sorry it's the Hurricane kit .... fully enclosed filter.
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/The%20Car/DSC_0025_zpsgrunfcjw.jpg)
Linky to the shop (http://www.elise-shop.com/hurricane-induction-kit-for-vvti-engine-elise-111r-exige-s2-federal-elise-p-250.html)
The Silicone is an addition 30 degree bend cut to the length needed for the install.
Ah, I did see that picture.
If I do go down the "car builder" one, I'll almost certainly do this.
Out of interest, what's the other type of pipe called?
FYI Tests with open air cone, home made shield and K&N Apollo:
http://mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=49667&sid=62eb9716c84d5b3eb5e7fbd5df263b04
Ah, great thread Mr X, thanks s:) :) s:)
I was thinking that because it's on top of the side vent, it wouldn't get too warm, but it appears that it really does need more air, hence why you've put the additional venting tube in.
(http://i.imgur.com/PoFbBtql.jpg)
Perhaps going back to my original idea, might be more appropriate then? I'd rather avoid pops and crackles - as I said, I'm simply wanting a bit more noise - I don't want to compromise the engine or blow anything up.
(http://i.imgur.com/uqYSiLl.png)
The fake CDA box is the one from car builder
(http://www.carbuildersolutions.com/content/images/thumbs/0021596_remote-carbon-fibre-canister-air-filter.jpeg)
Where would I get the ducting? I don't want to use something that might melt!
Just a fun fact to help in placement ideas...
The stock filter had a small tube that goes from the front of the air box into the left wing. You'd expect that's where the air goes from the vent.
It doesn't! There's a pipe in the left wing that leads to a hole just behind the battery.
So, behind the battery is by far the best place, if not the only good place.
Quote from: "shnazzle"Just a fun fact to help in placement ideas...
The stock filter had a small tube that goes from the front of the air box into the left wing. You'd expect that's where the air goes from the vent.
It doesn't! There's a pipe in the left wing that leads to a hole just behind the battery.
So, behind the battery is by far the best place, if not the only good place.
(http://www.mememaker.net/static/images/memes/4385016.jpg)
Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"Basically the oem intake relies heavily on the intake vacuum generated by the engine.
It is piped to just behind the side vent so that's where it gets its air. The side vent is not a high pressure area, though it does provide air for cooling and obviously the intake.
Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"Ok so if you're going to "improve" the intake it's a valid area to take air from, and on the move it gets a reasonable supply of cool air without too much weather or debris.
As you say you want a bit nice noise then this is the place to get air from, and a big cone filter intake there gives you nice noise.
I've no experience of the CDA or its copies but I would think they will have the same effect positioned behind the battery.
Didn't realise that's what you meant.. Apologies.
I've got a weird one on my OEM box.
Out of the side of it, there's a pipe that goes off, but is blanked off - effectively in a "U" shape. This seems absolutely bizarre. It appears to be designed like that, not an aftermarket modification.
I'd take a picture, but you'll know, you can't see anything!
I'll try and find a picture.
PPE install by FGrob on mine behind the battery !
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160525/86f207c12180cc4cf99aa7f541a47cb1.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160525/84b3c289ab4f30dfd223e91a40ab3e80.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: "Stu"I've got a weird one on my OEM box.
Out of the side of it, there's a pipe that goes off, but is blanked off - effectively in a "U" shape. This seems absolutely bizarre. It appears to be designed like that, not an aftermarket modification.
I'd take a picture, but you'll know, you can't see anything!
I'll try and find a picture.
That little pipe is a Helmholtz resonator. Its designed to cancel out certain frequencies of sound. They can be incorporated in exhaust systems too, for cancelling out annoying frequencies that cause boominess.
Quote from: "loadswine"Quote from: "Stu"I've got a weird one on my OEM box.
Out of the side of it, there's a pipe that goes off, but is blanked off - effectively in a "U" shape. This seems absolutely bizarre. It appears to be designed like that, not an aftermarket modification.
I'd take a picture, but you'll know, you can't see anything!
I'll try and find a picture.
That little pipe is a Helmholtz resonator. Its designed to cancel out certain frequencies of sound. They can be incorporated in exhaust systems too, for cancelling out annoying frequencies that cause boominess.
well, thank you s:) :) s:) That's the kind of information I love too s:D :D s:D
Scurries off to Wikipedia to learn more......
OK, I nearly have all the bits now - the ASH piece came today. Have the jubilee clips and filter, just waiting for the Spectre part from the US.
According to Amazon, it'll be here by next Friday, 10th June.
Out of interest, how do you clean the inside of the MAF sensor? I did the outside and it made a world of difference!
The Spectre part came this morning. I'll put it together later.
It comes with all kinds of MAF adapters and gaskets. I think this might work!
Does anybody know what the internal Diameter is of the tube that fits onto the inlet manifold? I want to get a angled one off ebay.
Thank you
R.
I was really hoping I'd be able to tell you, but I can't.
Does anyone have a good idea how to remove the old pipe? It seems to be stuck absolutely solid. In addition, my brace is so tight, I'm worried I'm going snap my wrench so I'm working around it.
Hairdryer perhaps? I don't want to use my heat gun because I'm not really comfortable with that kind of heat around a petrol engine (although I suppose it gets very hot in that area anyway)
I've put the thing together, but I have a feeling that the ASH hose diameter is too thin - I bought the one that was suggested. Is there an adapter or something or can you simply put a jubilee clip around it?
To be fair, it's wet tonight and I got very wet just removing the MAF sensor and undoing the jubilee type clips around the hose.
Here's a picture. I've actually got the MAF sensor attached now too. It's all very tight, which is great.
(http://i.imgur.com/8jznUZ2.jpg)
If you fully loosen the wire clip on the pipe (till it nearly falls off) you should be able to squeeze the pipe together and lever it off the throttle body. The clip (even if you think it's loose enough) can catch the edge and make it a pain to move.
Thanks Andy.
Depending on the weather, I'll have a go tomorrow after work.
There just appears to be absolutely no give at all - I would have expected it to at least move a little, even if it didn't come off.
Firstly, it's fitted! I gave the pipe a good tug and it did indeed come off.
What I've done is take the pipe out, but leave the box and all the other bits there. It makes it much easier if I need to revert rather quickly.
However, what I have introduced is another rattle. I don't get why - the filter isn't really that close to the bodywork (although it's snug in some pipes).
It actually sounds like the filter itself is rattling. It's a K&N 57i - is it likely to degrade to the point it rattles?
Nothing seems loose.
I've also created a metal cover to stop the hot air getting in. I made it out an old tray I found in the garage. I've bolted it to the back of the battery holder - it's not that rattling btw, the rattle started before that.
It only rattles at low revs - it sounds great over 2000RPM proper throaty noise.
No real chance to have a good look until Saturday.
Quote from: "The Other Stu"I gave the pipe a good tug and it did indeed come off.
Teehee... Bit aggressive
Quote from: "The Other Stu"Firstly, it's fitted! I gave the pipe a good tug and it did indeed come off.
Well done. What I've done is take the pipe out, but leave the box and all the other bits there. It makes it much easier if I need to revert rather quickly.
That'll be why you were having pipe removal issues as it all gets a bit cluttered in there. Why not just strip the air box out? It's only 2 bolts to remove/fit, looks better and gives the engine a bit more room/air to cool in. Why would you be reverting quickly out of interest?
Quote from: "The Other Stu"However, what I have introduced is another rattle. I don't get why - the filter isn't really that close to the bodywork (although it's snug in some pipes).
It actually sounds like the filter itself is rattling. It's a K&N 57i - is it likely to degrade to the point it rattles?
There is the bottom end of a bolt that sticks down behind the battery from behind the lip of the engine lid. My Apexi cone (quite large) banged against it to start with so I adjusted it to sit a little lower down. Unless something is loose the filter shouldn't rattle, it's basically paper wrapped in some wire mesh so there is nothing significant to make a sound. Maybe a jubilee clip on something?
Thanks Andy.
I shoved a bit of cardboard in between the top and the fillter this morning and it appeared to fix it.
However, performance is absolutely awful. I've lost the decent acceleration in low revs and changing gear.
It's fine above 3-4000RPM, but under that, it's not good.
Did you put a pipe to feed air from the intake directly to the cone?
I do like the noise though s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
You can duct it if you want but it's not required. It definitely wouldn't give you the issue you describe.
First thing to try as an ECU reset (unplug the battery for 10 minutes), obviously all the fuel trims are set based on the stock arrangement so it needs to reconfigure to the new kit. Give the MAF a good clean before you do it too.
If that doesn't work my money would be on a seal issue. There have been cases with the homemade kits before that if they aren't sealed properly (e.g. the car is drawing air in after the MAF) then you get some weird performance issues as the car has no idea how much air is actually going in.
Quote from: "AndyM"You can duct it if you want but it's not required. It definitely wouldn't give you the issue you describe.
First thing to try as an ECU reset (unplug the battery for 10 minutes), obviously all the fuel trims are set based on the stock arrangement so it needs to reconfigure to the new kit. Give the MAF a good clean before you do it too.
If that doesn't work my money would be on a seal issue. There have been cases with the homemade kits before that if they aren't sealed properly (e.g. the car is drawing air in after the MAF) then you get some weird performance issues as the car has no idea how much air is actually going in.
OK, thanks. I'll check it again. I reckon it was unplugged for 15-20 minutes last night whilst I fitted it, but it may need a reset again.
I don't think there's any air getting in anywhere else - it's all very tight.
If it was unplugged that long then it will have reset so tick that box unfortunately.
You mentioned the filter "degrading" is it not a new one? If not, have you checked it is clean enough for use? If it's gunked up then it could well be causing a big restriction that is only overcome when the throttle body is sucking in as much air as it can.
Quote from: "AndyM"If it was unplugged that long then it will have reset so tick that box unfortunately.
You mentioned the filter "degrading" is it not a new one? If not, have you checked it is clean enough for use? If it's gunked up then it could well be causing a big restriction that is only overcome when the throttle body is sucking in as much air as it can.
Nup, it was given to me - my son upgraded to a PPE - the damage is where it rubbed against the frame on his car.
It did look pretty clean, although maybe it needs a good soak (and a dry of course).
Someone said they used to disconnect their airbox to give the car a little noise. If I temporarily took the filter off, is it likely to break the engine just to see?
You can run it without a filter but obviously the engine is then getting unfiltered air. I certainly wouldn't do it for any length of time but you might get away with it for a quick test (just don't do it somewhere wet/dusty!), maybe just a rev test on the drive for example.
Most likely cause is the MAF not getting air correctly conditioned, leading to AFR issues.
Quote from: "ChrisGB"Most likely cause is the MAF not getting air correctly conditioned, leading to AFR issues.
When you say conditioned, not enough in?
It did this at cold this morning and slightly improved as the engine warmed.
Quote from: "The Other Stu"Quote from: "ChrisGB"Most likely cause is the MAF not getting air correctly conditioned, leading to AFR issues.
When you say conditioned, not enough in?
It did this at cold this morning and slightly improved as the engine warmed.
I think chris is reffering to the vanes in the standard set up that control the airflow pre maf.
Quote from: "1979scotte"Quote from: "The Other Stu"Quote from: "ChrisGB"Most likely cause is the MAF not getting air correctly conditioned, leading to AFR issues.
When you say conditioned, not enough in?
It did this at cold this morning and slightly improved as the engine warmed.
I think chris is reffering to the vanes in the standard set up that control the airflow pre maf.
Ah OK.
The only thing I have pre-MAF is the filter.
I nipped out at lunchtime and fired it up. Sounded much healthier. Maybe the run out this morning gave it a good blow.
If I get time, I'll take it apart tonight, check for leaks and wash the filter. Leave it to fully dry and retest.
I take it there's no issues with using some silicon sealant on the joins? It's not like it should get really hot.
+1 for Chris comment. See other posts with cheap or all purpose MAF holders. The elise part I fitted was expensive but works. The air from the cone maybe turbulent and inconsistent for the MAF. The standard box has vanes for airflow stability.
Otherwise also looks like a jubilee clip is missing on the manifold side of the MAF holder s:wink: :wink: s:wink: .
Quote from: "Jock"+1 for Chris comment. See other posts with cheap or all purpose MAF holders. The elise part I fitted was expensive but works. The air from the cone maybe turbulent and inconsistent for the MAF. The standard box has vanes for airflow stability.
Otherwise also looks like a jubilee clip is missing on the manifold side of the MAF holder s:wink: :wink: s:wink: .
Interestingly, it has its own clip type thing which supposedly holds the silicon tube. I think this might be what's causing the issue. I should be able to use a jubilee, but I might have to warm the silicon hose up first as it doesn't quite fit.
I've taken it off and returned to stock (I think I mentioned, I didn't remove the box, simply the pipe).
I think you're right. I might buy a hooky old box and use that.
It's definitely not getting the right air from the right place. Drove home tonight and it definitely felt much better. However, the EML came on. Plugged the OBDII in and it was P0171 and P0174 which implies it's getting the air from somewhere else, or not what it's after.
These things are a learning curve though and I'm learning s:) :) s:) If I really wanted to throw money at it, I'd buy AndyM's and simply fit but then what would I learn?
I'm going to stick to the Spectre holder. I know others have used it successfully and it does seem like a well made piece of kit (even if it is plastic). It holds the MAF very firmly - in fact, tighter than the stock box.
Had a chat with MilesH about this today. As he pointed out, even the smallest gap of air between the MAF sensor and the filter will cause problems and I have a feeling that the way I'd done it was causing a quite a big gap.
I've ordered a slightly bigger diameter hose so that rather than butting up to the MAF holder, it's going to go over the top of it and I'll jubilee it to ensure that there is absolutely no gap at all.
He agreed that there's no reason this won't work if I can get it air tight. I'll remember to take pictures this time. It's currently very happy being back on stock, but it sounds very flat.
Any updates on this Stu? I'm thinking of going down the same route. Silicone hose straight over Spectre housing with jubilee and Apexi Power Air Intake on t'other end. I've had Apexi con'es on my last 4 cars! Love them.
Quote from: "Jono_GT"Any updates on this Stu? I'm thinking of going down the same route. Silicone hose straight over Spectre housing with jubilee and Apexi Power Air Intake on t'other end. I've had Apexi con'es on my last 4 cars! Love them.
Yes, it turns out the K&N Cone I was given had got very wet at some stage. K&Ns are oil-based and don't like being immersed in water.
I've still got all the kit fittings and I'll order an apexi one or similar at some stage. I have a K&N box filter right now which definitely improves the performance over the cheap chinese paper one that was fitted.
Quote from: "Jono_GT"Any updates on this Stu? I'm thinking of going down the same route. Silicone hose straight over Spectre housing with jubilee and Apexi Power Air Intake on t'other end. I've had Apexi con'es on my last 4 cars! Love them.
Jono, I'm going to order an apexi, despite having a K&N Panel in (which definitely improved performance, but the noise still isn't quite right).
Standard Apexi Power Intake? Not a fake or anything like that (I don't get it - fake one is £30+, real one is only £40)
Quote from: "The Other Stu"Quote from: "Jono_GT"Any updates on this Stu? I'm thinking of going down the same route. Silicone hose straight over Spectre housing with jubilee and Apexi Power Air Intake on t'other end. I've had Apexi con'es on my last 4 cars! Love them.
Jono, I'm going to order an apexi, despite having a K&N Panel in (which definitely improved performance, but the noise still isn't quite right).
Standard Apexi Power Intake? Not a fake or anything like that (I don't get it - fake one is £30+, real one is only £40)
Yup - so long as the £40 one is genuinely genuine s:) :) s:) Where did you source your other parts for this design mate?
Quote from: "Jono_GT"Quote from: "The Other Stu"Quote from: "Jono_GT"Any updates on this Stu? I'm thinking of going down the same route. Silicone hose straight over Spectre housing with jubilee and Apexi Power Air Intake on t'other end. I've had Apexi con'es on my last 4 cars! Love them.
Jono, I'm going to order an apexi, despite having a K&N Panel in (which definitely improved performance, but the noise still isn't quite right).
Standard Apexi Power Intake? Not a fake or anything like that (I don't get it - fake one is £30+, real one is only £40)
Yup - so long as the £40 one is genuinely genuine s:) :) s:) Where did you source your other parts for this design mate?
Various places. I have an ASH hose, spectre MAF housing, various jubilee clips.
The MAF holder is always the hardest bit to do. Picture as above.
Here's my airbox using fake cda but with stock MAF adapter pipe (cut out).
The "fake CDA" is in fact brilliant. I sanded and snug fit the MAF adapter into it, so it acts as one piece. It is attached to TB using about 1.5" of cut stock rubber pipe. On the other side flexi pipe is attached to feed air directly from left-side duct. Airbox fits really well, but there's not much space surrounding the airbox. I've used included universal mount to fixate it so it doesn't touch neither firewall nor battery during engine movement.
No issues with MAF, idle or anything related. First I've run it without the feed pipe, and the sound is loud and rough. With feed pipe attached, it is substantially quieter and also more refined, more pleasant. Still quite loud in lift though s:D :D s:D
Pics:
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1066089/mr2/2016-06-25%2017.30.09.jpg)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1066089/mr2/2016-06-25%2017.30.17.jpg)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1066089/mr2/2016-06-25%2017.30.43.jpg)
Many thanks. Great help s:D :D s:D
I think that's the way I'm going to go.
What size duct did you get and where from?
No worries. If by "duct" you mean flexi pipe, I've used the one that came with the filter and it fits directly on the filter feed hole.
So for the maf holder, I've cut out the one of the stock celica airbox and sanded it to fit into new "CDA" airbox. However the 2zz maf holder is few mm larger in diameter than one from 1zz. So with maf holder from mr2 airbox, you might have to use coupler to attach it to airbox.
Quote from: "inside"No worries. If by "duct" you mean flexi pipe, I've used the one that came with the filter and it fits directly on the filter feed hole.
So for the maf holder, I've cut out the one of the stock celica airbox and sanded it to fit into new "CDA" airbox. However the 2zz maf holder is few mm larger in diameter than one from 1zz. So with maf holder from mr2 airbox, you might have to use coupler to attach it to airbox.
As I said, I've got a maf holder - I bought the Spectre one.
I just realised it does have the flexi. I've got all the other bits and plenty of jubilees.
Off to order I think.
Sorry to hijack but this is where i'm at with building one - Ramair filter, Silicone tube and an old cut down airbox (specifically to keep the veins and airflow)
Lots of interesting reading above. I left the plastic curve there to try and deflect any hot air over the filter - might not work but seemed a fair assumption at the time.
I've not decided how long the hose needs to be yet but reading above i may need to make it shorter to sit behind the battery - i was under the same impression that closer to the vent would be better!!
No idea whether the pic will work as it's the first time i've used dropbox!!
(https://photos-1.dropbox.com/t/2/AABvmIALiKirsN7-36s9-Q4EeWVQhtwkxSokv4vELLjMjQ/12/257615422/jpeg/32x32/1/_/1/2/IMG_1135.JPG/EK2omu4BGAQgAigC/2HE9tlHLWlCsZ4G-UPR0BWbkJ4N74kp8R4Z7mMTNtwY?size=1280x960&size_mode=3)
Not hijacking at all. It' entirely open to not only suggestions, but other ideas.
It's a common discussion point. Thanks for joining the party s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Be interesting to find out how it works for you.
The hose needs to be really quite short.
anytime - i don't get on much but enjoy a good read when I do!! At least the pic worked this time - tried unsuccessfully once before!!
What did surprise me is there appears to be no performance gain to be made - me being used to the old style more air = more fuel = more power attitude of the 80's and 90's
I will need to cut it down - Like I said above, I was planning on getting it as close to the vent as possible but that appears not to be the best place.
cheers
Steve
I'm getting to the end of my tether with this one.
I'm starting to think that whoever mentioned the Spectre part might be right, although I'm pretty sure some people use these already?
Do you have a spectre MAF holder? Does it work OK?
Here's where I'm at. I decided after the failed K&N cone (which probably has nothing wrong with it), I'd get one of these fake CDA carbon things.
Seems absolutely fine. Brand spanking new. Comes with 3 adaptors which was useful, plus the hose and everything.
Fitted it. Nice and tight. Definitely no stray air gaps. Turned over and instantly started chugging. Not as badly as before, mind, where it went down to about 500rpm, choked and went out, but definitely chugging and sounding like it's gasping for air. RPM was actually OK - i let it warm up and it drifted down to about 750RPM which is normal.
As above, put the hose so that it was popping out the air intake. Even took the air intake off (what a PITA that always is) to make sure I pulled it as far forward as I could. Definitely tons of air available.
Do you really think the two teeny weeny fins on the OEM air box make that much difference? It's the only thing I can really change.Everything else is absolutely spot on. Actually, one more thing I could do..... put a stripped out filter in the airbox and connect a cone or the CDA directly to the bottom of the air box. That might work. You need to use a stripped-out filter because the air box isn't air-tight without a filter in. I have an old cheap chinese one I can rip apart.
Miles: if you're reading this, if and when we next meet up for the other, I'll take the top of an air box off you - let me know how much.
"Do you really think the two teeny weeny fins on the OEM air box make that much difference?"
Yes, the vanes shape the airflow for the sensor and the ECU is calibrated for this flow state. Take the vanes away and the flow state is different and the MAF is no longer producing the same output relative to the airflow.
Quote from: "ChrisGB""Do you really think the two teeny weeny fins on the OEM air box make that much difference?"
Yes, the vanes shape the airflow for the sensor and the ECU is calibrated for this flow state. Take the vanes away and the flow state is different and the MAF is no longer producing the same output relative to the airflow.
Cheers Chris. They're not really vanes though are they? more like two very thin strips of plastic.
When I first saw this, I was expecting almost fins inside the box itself, worming the air in a particular way.
In reality, it's a tube that looks like this looking from the end
(http://i.imgur.com/jsfsQRn.png)
I'll see if I can get a box, rip it to bits and see what happens.
I'm sure there's someone else who used the spectre kit here?
Quote from: "The Other Stu"I have an old cheap chinese one I can rip apart.
Miles: if you're reading this, if and when we next meet up for the other, I'll take the top of an air box off you - let me know how much.
No problem! I'll put it to one side.
If you want to pop over sometime I have no doubt we could sort this and I have a few parts we can try s:) :) s:)
that might not be a bad idea. I'm stupid busy right now, but I'll see if I can work something out.
As you'll have noticed, the important thing here is what airflow the MAF measures. The MAF is also calibrated and the intake has been designed around that calibration. Any changes to that and the MAF is no longer "in tune" with the car.
Hence the use of a cut up stock MAF and expensive Eliseparts mafs.
Also, by using less restrictive filters you're not really increasing the amount of air the engine uses. You're just making it easier for the engine to suck in the air it asks for. Hence sometimes the more direct throttle response.
The only thing in the entire setup that MAY have a performance gain is the positioning behind the battery to get the coldest airflow.
So, either mimic the vanes, cut up a stock intake, or buy a designed MAF holder.
Alternatively... There's the MAF Mod. This is designed around changing the structure of the intake tube (no veins, raised maf) and using bigger injectors to compensate.
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Cheers Patrick s:) :) s:)
I was trying with the cold air intake behind the battery. In fact, the last attempt I had was exactly like the one with the ducting that went almost into the side pod as someone else did above.
The MAF holder was one of these btw
m http://www.jcwhitney.com/2000-2005-toyo ... 005j1.jcwx (http://www.jcwhitney.com/2000-2005-toyota-mr2-spyder/spectre-universal-mass-air-flow-sensor-adapters/p3070362d50883y2000-2005j1.jcwx) m
And I quote
" All Spectre products are designed to meet or exceed OEM specifications. "
As I mentioned, I'm sure other people said they'd used one of these. I found the details on the spyderchat forum.
I think I said in my first post, I'm not trying to get any additional power, I'm just trying to get a little more throaty noise. The car sometimes sounds like a whiny Ford Sierra being thrashed! s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Ignore me need to read the thread thoroughly
With regards to the vanes and "How much difference do they make?"
Ask any RX8 owner who has messed with the stock intake system, how much difference they make
I'm in the process of creating my own induction kit from one of these kits:-
m http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230795711637 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230795711637) m
The filter is being binned, I was only really after the alloy pipework, this will be connected to a BMC carbon dynamics DCA filter (kicking around from another project) located where the stock airbox lives
Will it work? no idea
Quote from: "Essex2Visuvesi"Ignore me need to read the thread thoroughly
With regards to the vanes and "How much difference do they make?"
Ask any RX8 owner who has messed with the stock intake system, how much difference they make
I'm in the process of creating my own induction kit from one of these kits:-
m http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230795711637 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230795711637) m
The filter is being binned, I was only really after the alloy pipework, this will be connected to a BMC carbon dynamics DCA filter (kicking around from another project) located where the stock airbox lives
Will it work? no idea
No worries s:) :) s:)
To recap, I bought one of these
(http://i.imgur.com/qIU7Ltym.jpg)
It's a MAF holder, specifically designed.
I put a proper silicon tube (which is way bigger than the stock one) connected to it, with both a Carbon filter and originally a Genuine K&N one connected to the other end.
Neither worked. It appears there's a problem (and I think you may find it with the one you've bought too).
If you look into the air filter box (and I've put a picture somewhere, but I can't find it right now) ,you'll see 2 small fins which move the air in a particular way. I think it's these that make all the difference.
The power is just entirely drained with both filters on my car. I don't have a performance problem usually, but as soon as I've tried any induction mods, the power is just awful. With the K&N, the engine dies.
Will be cutting up my airbox to investigate the vanes to see if I can create the same sort of thing s:) :) s:)
The RX8 has a mesh to stabilise the airflow just before the MAF and removing this make it run like a dog. So there could be some truth in the missing vanes causing the issue. After all why would they put them in (it costs money) if they were not needed?
I shall report back this weekend with my findings
Slightly off topic, but related. All that got that cheap carbon airbox filters... do you oil them before use?
I've read a few studies on induction kits. The consensus seems to be that stock is the best....
What bend do you need on the silicone elbow? Read some say 45, others say 30... Or do they both work?
I was trying both. The stock is around 45 degrees.
Quote from: "The Other Stu"I was trying both. The stock is around 45 degrees.
And did they both work? I know the best way is to look at it myself, so should probably just stop being lazy! s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
After loads of reading I made this one using a stock intake (to keep the veins) which I cut down with a dremmel, a new ramair filter and 45 degree hose.
Fitted it today and not sure i've any more power but it certainly goes aswell as ever and sounds great!!
(http://i.imgur.com/cb5FMZ7.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/pTwCzku.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/rf0amcw.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/hA7hMGx.jpg)
I think everything cost me about 30 quid all in from ebay!!