Hi all , new member needing some advice /direction .....
I have a 2000 MRS turbo conversion with a "knocking" engine
Do I rebuild 1zz ? With standard of forged parts ....? Spoken MWR about a forged bottom end but with core charge and shipping it gets really expensive ....
Do I go for 2zz swap with my turbo kit , but this engine has its own oil issues and I could be back to square one again .....
Would much appreciate any feedback /advice all from members
Thanks Paul
paul.mcgrath
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:12 pm
Location: london
TopMark post as unread
Do you know what boost it is running and what the power output is?
Has it been using much oil?
m http://www.garagewhifbitz.co.uk/news/ne ... turbodyno/ (http://www.garagewhifbitz.co.uk/news/new-product-whifbitz-mr2-roadster-turbo-kit/mr2turbodyno/) m
This is my car on the website , pic of the dyno at the bottom of page , 177bhp
But I don't know what boost its running
Only a suggestion...
Drop the pan, pull a couple of bearing caps and see what you're dealing with.
Did the knocking start after some enthusiastic driving, maybe involving a long right handed bend?
This a duplicate thread
Suggested I post here instead
I can't say exactly when or how this started , the car is driven quite hard , no track days for over a year ,
I'm no mechanic but diagnosis is engine "done" from where I had turbo fitted,
Tons of blue smoke when the car comes to rest after being off throttle/coasting say downhill
Revs die and car has stalled sometimes aswell , apart from that the car still performs well .....
I see maybe the mods could merge them for you.
As for the smoke she burning oil the question is that the turbo or the rings. You will have to take off some boost hose and check for oil.
That's all a bit above my ability as they say ,
Suppose the question is anybody in and around the London area who'd rebuild the engine for me ...?
I would suggest headcase is the guy you should speak to.
London is a BIG place can we narrow it down a bit.
Apologies.....
Enfield , north east London
The most trusted places closest to you are d1customs, rogue and headcase unfortunately theyre all a fair trot.
Loughborough or Rugby or Hastings.
Yeh seems nothing in and around London at the moment ,
Spoken to a few
rogue , saying go for 2zz with my turbo setup adapted
Ebay 2zz conversion around 3kish with turbo adapted
Hurley racing , 1zz engine rebuild 1600 if "no hard"parts required
Another , rebuild my 1zz £1250 including stock parts
Who's in Hastings ?
Don't bother with the 2zz the turbo won't have enough puff to keep up in lift.
From what you've said i would recommend a short engine from Toyota and new valve guide oil seals.
If you start going 2zz then you'd likely need to sort a 2zz anyway to get it fit for purpose and then there's the cost of adapting the turbo kit, engine mount adaptor, ecu, gearbox, and dyno time for mapping.
If you want a 2zz go for it but dont do it just because your 1zz has blown.
1zz is a perfectly reliable engine if well cared for especially with the revised pistons.
Excuse my ignorance again , where can I get a new short block off the shelf and what
roughly is the cost ??
MWR works out costly with core and shipping !
Have you considered seven motorsports? Not sure how far away they are.... But they seem to have Good rep... At least speaking to them for some advice might be an idea...
Sent from my XT1072 using Tapatalk
Quote from: "paul.mcgrath"Excuse my ignorance again , where can I get a new short block off the shelf and what
roughly is the cost ??
MWR works out costly with core and shipping !
Toyota main dealers are your best bet. Some of them offer a discount for MR2ROC members, my local one in Chelmsford still does, at least. From memory, it's about £800, so using a dealer that offers club discount is worthwhile.
Hi Paul
Welcome to the club. I'm sure you've figured out that the short block (while high quality) is not your cheapest option. You'll still have to pay for the cylinder head work, the build-up of the complete engine plus gaskets, seals and sundries (like a new clutch while the engine is out) and the removal and replacement.
The £1250 quote is probably your least expensive option, providing it's a warrantied job.
I do think that you need to ask whether a 2,000 MR S is worth the expense?
Hi thanks for the welcome
Yeh it's worth it to surprise a few much much more expensive cars .....
Will rebuild the 1zz for the time being but will be looking for
a baffled sump and bigger injectors if any out there ....
Good for you Paul. I respect your enthusiasm.
You might want to consider a simple baffle idea, while the engine is apart...
l viewtopic.php?f=11&t=58718&p=684733&hilit=sump&sid=f2b1ab56fd9101170a464ef28a32e9d6#p684733 (http://mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=58718&p=684733&hilit=sump&sid=f2b1ab56fd9101170a464ef28a32e9d6#p684733) l
Let us know how it all goes?
You obviously know your stuff that's a bit above my pay grade as they say ....
What would you do in my position re the car ....?
Was intending to spend 3ish on the 2zz swap with my turbo kit
What would you suggest if I wanted fast road and occasional track days ?
I'm no boy racer and north of 40 ....
Thanks
At 3k spend you only have rebuild in the budget.
A 2zz will cost 3k with rogue without the turbo added on.
To add the turbo to the 2zz will require a new turbo manifold yours is no good also the turbo you got will be to small when the 2zz goes into lift, so that a new turbo. Now added new bigger injectors and a map so making it another £3k on top.
Then after all that you will need to either upgrade your gearbox and clutch which is more money on top of everything else.
Maybe go with the 2zz from rogue, and sell your existing turbo setup to fund a later forced induction option later?
Sent from my XT1072 using Tapatalk
I'd be pretty gutted going from 177bhp turbo to 190hp (best case scenario) 2zz to be honest. It's the torque. It's all about the torque.
Rebuild 1zz, stick your turbo back on. Happy days.
Quote from: "shnazzle"Rebuild 1zz, stick your turbo back on. Happy days.
+17
Another vote for rebuilding the engine you've got. Inspect the turbo when it's off the car and make sure it's healthy.
What could have affected the turbo with the problem I have ?
When a turbo starts to break up bits can end up in the engine. I'm not saying this is what happened - but it could be that the turbo is the source of your problems.
I've seen other engines scrapped this way.
The way it happens, turbo oil seals start leaking, then play develops in the turbo's bearings then turbo blades start to hit the housing....
Not trying to put you off, just saying 'check and be sure'. It's not easy when you have to entrust the work to others, I know, but it would be worth visiting your re-builder and having a good look, once it's in pieces. No decent mechanic would object to that.
I'd certainly want to know the cause of the failure.
Just a thought bouncing off another thread if it helps for considering costs..- the dutch appear to be selling a shortblock for £1130.
m http://www.rideround.nl/shop/3-401-1122 ... seerd.html (http://www.rideround.nl/shop/3-401-1122/celica-t23-shortblocken/1zz-fe-shortblock-gereviseerd.html) m
"Originating from the Toyota Exchange Programme, completely overhauled engine block with new pistons, bearings etc. Comes with: - New dipstick with larger display (15301-0D011) - Complete gasket set (04111-22062) - 6 Liter Toyota for Life Coolant - 5 liter Toyota 10W40 Engine Oil - Oil filter (90915-YZZJ1)"
I like the bit about new dipstick with larger display... might have look at buying that separate!
Hi all , back for some more info .............
what would constitute a nice stock rebuild of the 1zz........??
I know the shopping list could be long , but look forward to your suggestions ..........
cheers
First... select a good engine specialist. Once the engine is apart it's about measuring and inspecting to decide what is required (which is where honest expertise is needed). The basics are clean pistons, new rings, hone cylinders, valve seals, lap valves, change rod bearings...). Then you might go for, upgraded pistons, new timing chain and guides. You will also need new gaskets and head bolts. I favour popping in a new thermostat ('cos it's a pig of a job in the car) and consider a new water pump.
Edit: IF it has ingested bits of turbo (I hope not), the engine might not be worth rebuilding. Stop there and consider alternatives, such as rebuilding a used engine
Hi all emergency help please
Bought a low miles 2004 engine , my engine is out but the newer engine has different oil cooling hoses etc I'm being told .....
Where do we connect them ...!!!
If it's out of a Roadster, there aren't any oil cooling hoses. A 2004 will go right in. I know 'cos I've got two in two PFL cars. All the connections and hoses are the same, only an MR S will not have the connection for the post-cat sensor. If it's a 1ZZ FE out of a different car, quite a few things are different, like the intake manifold and you'll have to swap bits over.
Before you put it in, check that the oil was clean.
I have an MRS ... can it go in ??
Oh yes . One of mine is an MRS. Just ignore the extra O2 connector. The ecu will be fine.
Hi I've got two extra cooling pipes from the oil filter that I need to know where to connect to ??
The Apexi management will be ok aswell ??
Thanks for your help
It's just the electrical connection for the main cat - which an MR S doesn't have. The Apexi might need a tweek - I've no experience of that. I doubt it though, as you're already set up to run without a post-cat sensor (unless that's been changed). Any doubts -ask Schnazzle 'cos he's a bit of a whizz at the management stuff.
I'm sure you'll be fine. As I said, I've put an 04 Euro engine in an MRS and it's fine. Didn't even change the loom.
Thanks again
And the 2 oil cooling pipes , where do we connect them ? My MRS engine hasn't got them ..
Sorry I'm relaying this all to the mechanic
Are you talking about circulation for a turbo? There is no oil cooler on a roadster. If you have an engine with cooling pipes, it's either modified or not out of a Roadster. If it IS out of a Roadster and has cooling pipes, you can either install an oil cooler or remove the pipes and block off the ports. If it's not a Roadster engine, there could be a lot of stuff that is different. I know 1ZZ FE engines out of front wheel drive cars are set up quite differently, and you'll have to swap over quite a lot off stuff from your old engine. You'll have to put them side by side and compare. I do know that the intake manifold is different, for starters. Then there might be a power-steering pump which the roadster doesn't use (that would be two extra pipes) - that would have to be replaced with your idler pulley.
Others with wider experience of 1ZZ variants will have to help here, I'm afraid.
ARE you SURE your new engine is out of a roadster? Or is it out of a Corolla or Celica, or Avensis?
I've asked the question if it's out of a roadster again , it was advertised as a roadster engine ....
Who did you take it for to the rebuilt? Surely they would know/
Hmmm... Well - all is not lost. The basic engine is the same. You need to put them side-by-side and make the new one look like your old one. If it's out of a Roadster, they will be the same. If it's not, keep swapping till they are the same. If the intake manifold is different -that's a big give-away. All you have to do, however, is swap them. If they ARE different engines, you will want to swap the loom over too. Oh, I think the valve covers are also different, with the filler cap in a slightly different position. It can all be swapped over.
You can't do this by remote, you need to go to your mechanic and look at it.
Not all mechanics will know, that doesn't mean he's a bad mechanic, we all have gaps in our knowledge. However, he should be able to see if it's a different set-up.
Ok from a picture I've seen the new engine has 2 pipes just above oil filter coming out .....
The old engine from the MRS has one pipe ......
I could email pics if that's allowed ..... I'm away at the moment and posting from my phone
Thanks
You're MRS has a turbo?
On my car, there is coolant water pipes to and from the oil filter housing - they go to the water pipe that goes around the back of the head. I never figured out what they do, they can't be cooling or heating the oil.
I suspect that you can probably blank them.
I'll see if I have a pic
This is it - pic from underneath during assembly - is this the bit you're talking about?
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161005/b33674f795fe6b39d543dae206bde759.jpg)
And I think these two are the hoses joining it to the cooling system (but I could be wrong!)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161005/60f8c36c877b2e994df26cf2fdc51bdb.jpg)
Just looked under my Blue car. Not disturbed the engine on that one. It has an 04 facelift engine and it has the same two pipes. Can't see where they go as they disappear behind the inlet manifold. The MRS doesn't have even one. I'll check my other engine tomorrow.
Any one rebuilt an 04 engine?
Looking at Jonbill's pic it's a water-cooled oil cooler. At least you can see where they go. Anything that helps with the cooling can't be bad.
Just felt around under my silver car - that's the MRS with an early 04 engine in it. It has the same plumbing. Definitely a water jacket oil cooler. Any extra hose on your MRS must be a turbo oil-feed? In which case you'll need to swap over the sandwich plate and the oil pan for the oil return. Never noticed the oil cooler as it went in as a lump.
Our Peugeot diesels have a similar type of oil cooler.
Stop Press: Just took a pic of the MRS oil filter housing. It's quite different as you can see. There is also no hub nut inside the housing, which probably retains the cooler.
(http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae71/CarolynneK/20161005_182231.jpg) (http://s959.photobucket.com/user/CarolynneK/media/20161005_182231.jpg.html)
You live and learn!
From the pics I have been sent my MRS engine has a single exit pipe unit
Coming out at 90 degrees just above where oil filter I assume is screwed in ....
New 04 engine has two pipes that exit out just above oil filter that turn upwards with rubber hoses connected but where
do I connect them , wish I could post the pics but can't at the moment , the pics posted don't show what I'm looking at
Thanks for all your help
The roadster come with an oil warmer as standard that is what your looking at. Now the import did not have the warmer as standard so that the difference. Now if they are using your water pipes from the old engine for the new one you will just leave the warmer alone. One pipe in and one out it won't hurt it.
Thanks been a great help as always
Hopefully the rest will go back together with no more problems
I'm looking at a baffled sump and oil coolers , moroso for the sump but what oil coolers fit ?
lots of opinions on oil coolers but for me regardless of manufacture it should be thermostatic to allow oils stay at a better constant which is important on a turbo car.
Hi all , car all back together and running well now , looking around and I came across this
m http://www.rsaperformance.com/obxaloilpanw.html (http://www.rsaperformance.com/obxaloilpanw.html) m
any feedback out there as to if its any good ? lot cheaper than moroso is there a reason
also where's the post on how to put pics up on here .........?
thanks
Quote from: "paul.mcgrath"Hi all , car all back together and running well now , looking around and I came across this
m http://www.rsaperformance.com/obxaloilpanw.html (http://www.rsaperformance.com/obxaloilpanw.html) m
any feedback out there as to if its any good ? lot cheaper than moroso is there a reason
also where's the post on how to put pics up on here .........?
thanks
dont get it mate, i brought 1 was a absolute nightmare, ended up getting a elise parts sump
l viewtopic.php?f=7&t=56489&p=653654&hilit=obx+sump#p653654 (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=56489&p=653654&hilit=obx+sump#p653654) l
cheers tommy
thanks Tommy , wont bother , is it money well spent for the elise parts sump ?
Quote from: "tommyzoom99"Quote from: "paul.mcgrath"Hi all , car all back together and running well now , looking around and I came across this
m http://www.rsaperformance.com/obxaloilpanw.html (http://www.rsaperformance.com/obxaloilpanw.html) m
any feedback out there as to if its any good ? lot cheaper than moroso is there a reason
also where's the post on how to put pics up on here .........?
thanks
dont get it mate, i brought 1 was a absolute nightmare, ended up getting a elise parts sump
m http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic. ... mp#p653654 (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=56489&p=653654&hilit=obx+sump#p653654) m
cheers tommy
What made it a nightmare? Fit?
Quote from: "paul.mcgrath"thanks Tommy , wont bother , is it money well spent for the elise parts sump ?
yeah to be fair the elise parts sump was in a different league, they are the go to sump if you have a 1zz or 2zz and are doing track days. and have all the bits ready on them if your going turbo
cheers tommy
Quote from: "Carolyn"Quote from: "tommyzoom99"Quote from: "paul.mcgrath"Hi all , car all back together and running well now , looking around and I came across this
m http://www.rsaperformance.com/obxaloilpanw.html (http://www.rsaperformance.com/obxaloilpanw.html) m
any feedback out there as to if its any good ? lot cheaper than moroso is there a reason
also where's the post on how to put pics up on here .........?
thanks
dont get it mate, i brought 1 was a absolute nightmare, ended up getting a elise parts sump
l viewtopic.php?f=7&t=56489&p=653654&hilit=obx+sump#p653654 (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=56489&p=653654&hilit=obx+sump#p653654) l
cheers tommy
What made it a nightmare? Fit?
literally about 3 holes lined up had to drill out every hole to a oblong shape, the welds where not the best, then after all that got the thing on bolted it up and a weld had cracked at a corner and was weeping oil, so threw in the towel and got a elise parts.
cheers tommy
on the other hand maybe a calculated risk ........?
Hi all , any comments or feedback about the
Wilwood brake kit would be appreciated
or any replacement suggestions ??
Thanks