I was on my way home from a long journey today (40odd miles) and 5 mins from home, i pull away from the lights and to make good progress i put my right foot to the floor expecting it to shoot upto 4k revs in 1st gear like it normally does but the engine did not want to rev. luckily i was only a couple miles from home so could 'limp' home, but the engine's performance seemed to get worse (cant be sure though)On a gradinet, i could not go any faster than 20mph in 2nd gear and sounded like a bag of nails.
Finally got home and switched the engine off, checked the oil (seemed fine) waited a bit and restarted the car. the car would now rev quite freely, but m sure it doesnt sound the same - maybe a bit louder (cant be sure, maybe me just being paranoid) and im sure it doesnt feel as fast.
Dad says it might be a sensor tripping and causing the engine to go into limp mode, but no CEL came on
havnt had a chance to check the pre-cats but not looking forward to it.
Hi Tom,
A couple of Questions first
- What year is the car ?
- What is your mileage ?
The sudden power loss (which is what happened in mine) ! might ! be due to a pre-cat collasping, blocking the exhaust gasses.
You may find it runs find for about 5 min (whilst warming up) then you will really struggle to get more than 3,000 revs.
My suggestion is to limp the car to toyota - I drove mine stright up the next day and just left it, told them it was broke and to fix it (under extended warranty, now my 3 years has run out)
Mine was nearly 4 years old with 60k on so, if yours is a similar age / or mileage then its possibly the pre-cats.
get it in as soon as possible for a diagnosis.
Cheers
Darren J
the car is 2000 with 26k on the clock. ive just gave it a good 10 minute run and the car was still happy to rev above 3k revs.
im going to drop the car off to mr. T tommorrow. im going to check the pre cats myself in the morning.
is it possible that the ECU could put the car into 'limp' mode by a faulty sensor?
Quote from: "Tomr2"is it possible that the ECU could put the car into 'limp' mode by a faulty sensor?
I once forgot to connect the O2 sensors and I can only assume the ECU went limping with the CEL...it didn't really make a huge performance difference, though it was obvious...
When my precats collapsed, the engine did rev nicely on neutral, but refused to rev in gear s:? :? s:?
Quote from: "Tem"When my precats collapsed, the engine did rev nicely on neutral, but refused to rev in gear s:? :? s:?
Exactlly the cicumstances of how I lost the last engine about 3 weeks ago. This car had no pre cats though!
Huge power loss the car didn't want to rev and there was a clicking noise coming from the big end as id rev around 2500rpm
just checked the precats, there is NO precat visible in the right bank!
the car has done around 10 miles since the problems started, is there any chance i could've caught this early enough to just need a new manifold??
But where will the right precat material be? in the main cat?
this REALLY could'nt have come at a worse time and im not looking forward to having to find a second hand engne
precat material could be in your main cat or could have been sucked into teh cylinders.
I'd expect a little of both
I take it your out of warranty?
yep, havnt been to toyota yet, do i bother? or shall i start looking for an engine now? any idea how long my car will last?
Quote from: "Tomr2"yep, havnt been to toyota yet, do i bother? or shall i start looking for an engine now? any idea how long my car will last?
Clear both precats of anything that might still be in there. Then see what comes out of the main cat pipe.
After that you might as well try your luck and keep on driving, that's the only way to know for sure.
I wouldn't bother with Toyota, if you can't get it in warranty. It's vewwy expensive through them s:? :? s:?
Quote from: "Tem"Quote from: "Tomr2"yep, havnt been to toyota yet, do i bother? or shall i start looking for an engine now? any idea how long my car will last?
Clear both precats of anything that might still be in there. Then see what comes out of the main cat pipe.
im not really experienced enough to attempt this mate. would toyota do this, or shall i nip to locall garage and ask them to do it?
agreed. don't drive it until you've gutted the pre cats.
Take teh main cat off and shake as much out as you can.
at this point you may get lucky and you may not, keep a regular eye on oil levels and hope.
You may get away with it, if it starts drinking ouil like a fish at least it will likely last long enough for you to source a new engine.
will a garage do this for me though? as i said, i dont really have the confidence and ability to do this
Quote from: "Tomr2"will a garage do this for me though? as i said, i dont really have the confidence and ability to do this
If you can remove the O2 sensor to check the precats, you're already half way there s;) ;) s;) Read GSB's excellent writeup about this...
I'm sure local garage can do it, unless they have an issue about messing with pollution stuff...
i did attempt to gut the precats, but didnt even get halfway as i rounded off 2 bolts.
failing that just ask them to remove and refit the manifold for you.
it will only tajke you approx 15 mins to clear out the chambers
ok, might nip down to quick fit in a mo. cheers for the advice guys
You might be better off ringing around first and seeing if they'd be happy to carryout the work?
That way you won't do any wasted miles and cause more damage.
wish id thought of that before i went out! took me 4 garages before anyone would consider having a look.
The mechanic took off the manifold and main cat, shook out the broken cat bits, id say about half came out as to what was orinally in the manifold. he said that some of it could of came out the exhaust already.
i told him to gut the other precat so this couldnt happen again. There was what looked like cotton wool stuck at the top of the manifold pipe which was probly why the performance was suffering.
I still dont know if my '2 is ok, and im sure its still taking slightly longer to rev above 3000rpm. Should the exhaust get louder if the pre cats are gutted as mine has got a noticeably 'beefier' exhaust note.
might just get rid of it this week to save me the hassle of finding a new engine
remove teh pre-cats and it will definately sound beefier.
so i just have to keep an eye on oil consumption now right?
yep
check it every couple of hundred miles for the moment just to make sure.
top up as necessary.
Hi,
Just to inform you that the same pre-cat disc also disintegrated into my main Cat and my MR2 had the same symptoms, no pace, none revving engine and strange noise.
I took the car to the local main dealer who replaced the main Cat and the manifold (including 2 new pre-cat discs, great!) for a combined cost of £1282 (including £78 labour and parts). Like yourself, I was also out of warranty but needed the car for work (I travel 70 miles a day) and paid for the repairs to be carried out.
I picked up the car last Friday (after being with the dealer for 10 days) and since then it seems to have returned to its former glory (I'm sure it has more poke than I can remember – particular in 5th gear – maybe I'm imagining it!)
Apart from a faulty O2 sensor next to the main Cat which has engaged the 'Engine Malfunction Light', the car seems fine. I have now travelled approx 500miles since collecting the car and the oil level has not reduced......yet! I check the car every lunch time with my 'car guru' mate (who has a Renault Clio Williams – which is apparently a oil burner so will spot excessive consumption before me), and I now keep a small bottle of oil in the car (with one of those bendy funnels) just in case of emergencies.
Since picking up my car, I have bought a 12 month (+ 1 month free) warranty with 'WarrantyDirect' for £215 which I hope will cover me for future engine trouble. I plan to keep the warranty until I swap the car at the end of the year.
Cheers,
so why would the problem lie in the main cat? all of the loose ceramic debris has been emptied out. Also, my manifold has been thoroughly cleaned so there is nothing blocking there.
Surely the damage has that has been caused to my engine cannot get any worse?
I was thinking of taking out an RAC warranty so that if my engine does completely die i should be covered
it could get worse if teh damage to teh bores has already been done, i.e it may guzzle oil.
only time will tell
if oil consumption were to stay 'normal' would a new main cat return the performance back to normal?
should do, if the main cat is blocked though do it soon.
otherwise excess backpressure will exacerbate the oil loss.
i have managed to source a used main cat for ₤175 + delivery. is it worth fitting this or should i buy a warranty, so id the engine does eventually go t*ts up, i will hopefully have my back covered...
Hi,
At that price, I would say replace the main Cat as that would automatically put the power back into the car. I paid £720 for a new one!
You may find that the car will be fine after replacing the main cat, but will require regular oil checks.
If you do notice excessive oil consumption, I would recommend purchasing an extended warranty to protect your engine in the future.
FYI, I had a quote for £299 with the RAC (to a limit of £3000 per claim) and £215 with Warranty Direct (to a limit of £5000 per claim). If you leave the cat alone, I dare say the combined cost of replacing the cat and engine would exceed £3000 (although I am not certain!)
By the way, I could not find the catalytic converter in the list of covered items with any Warranty. Have you seen it covered?
im sure i saw 'catalytic converter' covered.
Only thing im worried about if i take out a warranty is them refusing to pay out as my manifold has now been modified (cats gutted) do you think this will affect it, or could i say that, both of them collapsed and disintegrated on there own??
Quote from: "Tomr2"im sure i saw 'catalytic converter' covered.
Only thing im worried about if i take out a warranty is them refusing to pay out as my manifold has now been modified (cats gutted) do you think this will affect it, or could i say that, both of them collapsed and disintegrated on there own??
I would have thought you would be ok as no-one could prove that they did not disintegrate s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Quote from: "heathstimpson"Quote from: "Tomr2"im sure i saw 'catalytic converter' covered.
Only thing im worried about if i take out a warranty is them refusing to pay out as my manifold has now been modified (cats gutted) do you think this will affect it, or could i say that, both of them collapsed and disintegrated on there own??
I would have thought you would be ok as no-one could prove that they did not disintegrate s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
I've always thought this to be an odd argument as surely if they disintegrated there would be some trace left behind, compared to a gutting which cleans everything out?
The only thing that lack of a pre-cat can prove is that it ain't there now. Can't prove it was there to begin with, nor that it was removed, just that it isn't there now.
Quote from: "Bongo"I've always thought this to be an odd argument as surely if they disintegrated there would be some trace left behind, compared to a gutting which cleans everything out?
You're right, there would be tons of trash between the precats and main cat. We know it, but they don't s;) ;) s;)
so the loss in perfomance my '2 is suffering from is cos the main cat is damaged?
ive just thought, with the new cat ive just ordered, if it is off a uk '2, will there be any complications as uk 2's have a sensor on the main cat right? as mine is a j-spec
Quote from: "Tomr2"so the loss in perfomance my '2 is suffering from is cos the main cat is damaged?
I'd guess for that. Think of it this way, collapsing cat in the pipe is pretty much like you put an old sock in the pipe. It might breath enough to idle nicely, but once you try to move more gasses through it, it just won't flow. Or kinda like changing the pipe to a 0.5" pipe.
Quoteive just thought, with the new cat ive just ordered, if it is off a uk '2, will there be any complications as uk 2's have a sensor on the main cat right? as mine is a j-spec
The 3rd sensor just sniffs if the cat is doing it's job. If you don't have it, you won't have any issues no matter what cat you have (or no cat at all).