After spending far too much time looking at conflicting information, including direct from MWR I'm still unsure which way to go with the upgrades?
Understand the stage one drop straight in (buckets notwithstanding) and the ECU will cope with them etc no problem.
BUT.. if I'm going to the effort of swapping cams then I'm inclined to go for the stage 2 (with uprated springs obviously).
So bearing in mind the soon to arrive Emanage Blue can I live with a rough idle from the stage 2s until such time as I go to Greggs?
And will I get much more from the stage 2s to actually make it worth the extra cost of the springs, bearing in mind the cams are the same price either way.
For additional information I'm also looking at a bored throttle body, possibly 2zz injectors and pushing out through the Zero and 200 cell cat.
1zz...
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I've just installed a 2zz with stage 2 cams built by Lee at se7en motorsport. I've also installed a standalone ecu, changed my intake and built a custom straight through exhaust. It's still being worked on but the cams definitely are worth it. The lower end grunt really makes a difference.
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Quote from: michaelb on October 6, 2018, 19:36
I've just installed a 2zz with stage 2 cams built by Lee at se7en motorsport. I've also installed a standalone ecu, changed my intake and built a custom straight through exhaust. It's still being worked on but the cams definitely are worth it. The lower end grunt really makes a difference.
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Appreciate the input, sadly doesn't help with my decision as I'm 1zz but can't edit my title..[emoji23]
It's more needing experience of the stage 2 cams without standalone, I don't think the Emanage can alter the timing/vvt.
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Well I was told it would make a big difference with my 2zz even with still using the Celica ecu. The idle just needed changed to 1k-1.2k rpm to avoid a rough idle.
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I can live with a rough idle as long as it runs! [emoji38]
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What is the ultimate goal here?
Are you looking long term to build an extreme NA 1zz like Bernie or Tommyzoom?
Or are you just looking for a bit more poke?
FYI there is an idle rpm limit for mot
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What is it?
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I just looked up the test and can't see anything other than emissions at idle
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Quote from: shnazzle on October 6, 2018, 20:56
FYI there is an idle rpm limit for mot
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MOT is due December so I'll be getting that out of the way before I make all the changes, give myself plenty of time to get everything sorted before the next one..[emoji851]
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Quote from: 1979scotte on October 6, 2018, 20:54
What is the ultimate goal here?
Are you looking long term to build an extreme NA 1zz like Bernie or Tommyzoom?
Or are you just looking for a bit more poke?
Was taking my lead from Bernie's in the first instance, falling short of Tommyzoom. Essentially wanting to put some power back to offset the extra weight I've added [emoji23]
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1500rpm is the max they're allowed to rev to pass HC tests.
A lot of this is user discretion though.... Rpm isn't logged ;)
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Quote from: shnazzle on October 6, 2018, 22:29
1500rpm is the max they're allowed to rev to pass HC tests.
A lot of this is user discretion though.... Rpm isn't logged ;)
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Err? I'm not slinging a Hyabusa motor in! [emoji38]
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So CAN I sling the stage 2s in with the standard ECU and hope the Emanage will sort out the fuelling with a half decent map? I know the harness is modified for open loop but essentially that means little to me at the moment, until it arrives and I have a read of the paperwork.
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I would have thought it would be fine mate. If you're unsure, Lee at Se7en is great with advice, give him a call. He thought I'd be using the 2zz with stage 2 cams off the stock ecu, so it must be possible
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Quote from: michaelb on October 6, 2018, 22:39
I would have thought it would be fine mate. If you're unsure, Lee at Se7en is great with advice, give him a call. He thought I'd be using the 2zz with stage 2 cams off the stock ecu, so it must be possible
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Yeah, I keep thinking about giving them a bell but they're really busy at the moment, not far away from me either I don't think.
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Interesting read.... I am going down the N/A route too.
I have fitted MWR header and 200cell cat along with maxbore throttle body
fox dual exhaust,next I have stage 1 Cat cams to be fitted in the next couple of
months.
I am looking at Apexi management? Will be interested in the mentioned Emanage
results above though.
As I am doing the work I have a new cam chain kit to fit too.
Apexi is always going to be better. Emanage is quite basic. Pfc is a standalone. It can adjust valve timing etc. Won't get interference from the stock fueling feedback loops
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Quote from: shiny on October 7, 2018, 08:04
Interesting read.... I am going down the N/A route too.
I have fitted MWR header and 200cell cat along with maxbore throttle body
fox dual exhaust,next I have stage 1 Cat cams to be fitted in the next couple of
months.
I am looking at Apexi management? Will be interested in the mentioned Emanage
results above though.
As I am doing the work I have a new cam chain kit to fit too.
Sounds good, I'll be interested to hear your opinions on the Catcams cams, I've read a lot of bad things about them so going with Crower.
The Apexi is a better system than the Emanage for this purpose, so you're ahead of me there already.[emoji38]
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Bad things about Cat Cams!! Enlighten me please?
I have read the Cat Cams are a little more eggressive than crower.
Quote from: shiny on October 7, 2018, 09:38
Bad things about Cat Cams!! Enlighten me please?
I have read the Cat Cams are a little more eggressive than crower.
Issues with poor quality and fitment and poor customer service when things go wrong, people receiving cams that won't run etc. All I did was Google catcams and found more bad news than good, which was a shame as they're cheaper and I could probably get discount as well!
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You're best going to someone who is well known and respected for their workmanship and experience. Lee at Se7en is a top bloke and knows his stuff.
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Quote from: michaelb on October 7, 2018, 09:47
You're best going to someone who is well known and respected for their workmanship and experience. Lee at Se7en is a top bloke and knows his stuff.
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Agreed. Cheers again.
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I bought these through Fensport???
Just googled crower problems too!
Quote from: shiny on October 7, 2018, 10:18
I bought these through Fensport???
Yup, that was to have been my purchase route as I can get discount at Fennsport through the Driver's Club.
Hey, it's only stuff I've read on the internet and so should probably be taken with a pinch of salt, I mean who asks a bunch of people on the internet for advice? [emoji23]
Yours could be perfect and run like a dream.
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Majority of the time forum members only comment on things when they go wrong.
I had this when I had my E46 M3 on M3CUTTERS forum.
Chhers
Mate
This is very true! Perhaps we should have a section on positive stories! Lol
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Makes one not want to bother to be honest. Just stock rebuild and enjoy it
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I've owned the car 5.5 years and FGrob had them installed many years before, all mapped after install by Noble and absolutely no problems in all that time
Quote from: shnazzle on October 7, 2018, 10:52
Makes one not want to bother to be honest. Just stock rebuild and enjoy it
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Jeez, that dry hit really did for you didn't it??[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]
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Quote from: Bernie on October 7, 2018, 10:54
I've owned the car 5.5 years and FGrob had them installed many years before, all mapped after install by Noble and absolutely no problems in all that time
Just remind me though Bernie, are yours 1 or 2 Crowers? I can't remember, my main issue is not wether they're any good, I know they are and get the results I'm after in the long term.
It's how long I can feasibly live with the car on stage 2s before I take it to get mapped somewhere. I know the standard ECU will cope with stage 1 and you need a standalone to fully exploit the stage 2 but is it actually driveable on the standard ECU?
I'll be getting it mapped sooner or later but if I'm shipping cams from the US I might as well lash out the extra £300 or so on the springs as well and go stage 2.
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Quote from: Call the midlife! on October 7, 2018, 11:01
Quote from: Bernie on October 7, 2018, 10:54
I've owned the car 5.5 years and FGrob had them installed many years before, all mapped after install by Noble and absolutely no problems in all that time
Just remind me though Bernie, are yours 1 or 2 Crowers? I can't remember, my main issue is not wether they're any good, I know they are and get the results I'm after in the long term.
It's how long I can feasibly live with the car on stage 2s before I take it to get mapped somewhere. I know the standard ECU will cope with stage 1 and you need a standalone to fully exploit the stage 2 but is it actually driveable on the standard ECU?
I'll be getting it mapped sooner or later but if I'm shipping cams from the US I might as well lash out the extra £300 or so on the springs as well and go stage 2.
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Stage 1 with Apexi ECU all mapped after install
Quote from: Bernie on October 7, 2018, 11:02
Quote from: Call the midlife! on October 7, 2018, 11:01
Quote from: Bernie on October 7, 2018, 10:54
I've owned the car 5.5 years and FGrob had them installed many years before, all mapped after install by Noble and absolutely no problems in all that time
Just remind me though Bernie, are yours 1 or 2 Crowers? I can't remember, my main issue is not wether they're any good, I know they are and get the results I'm after in the long term.
It's how long I can feasibly live with the car on stage 2s before I take it to get mapped somewhere. I know the standard ECU will cope with stage 1 and you need a standalone to fully exploit the stage 2 but is it actually driveable on the standard ECU?
I'll be getting it mapped sooner or later but if I'm shipping cams from the US I might as well lash out the extra £300 or so on the springs as well and go stage 2.
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Stage 1 with Apexi ECU all mapped after install
Yeah, thought that was the case, cheers. I've no worries in the quality/performance side of the Crowers and not chasing the last ounce of performance, it's more a practically thing. While I'm doing it I might as well do the big one![emoji38]
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Quote from: Call the midlife! on October 7, 2018, 10:54
Quote from: shnazzle on October 7, 2018, 10:52
Makes one not want to bother to be honest. Just stock rebuild and enjoy it
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Jeez, that dry hit really did for you didn't it??[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]
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LOL!! You been spying on me??
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Quote from: shnazzle on October 7, 2018, 11:13
Quote from: Call the midlife! on October 7, 2018, 10:54
Quote from: shnazzle on October 7, 2018, 10:52
Makes one not want to bother to be honest. Just stock rebuild and enjoy it
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Jeez, that dry hit really did for you didn't it??[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]
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LOL!! You been spying on me??
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Nope! It came up in my Tapatalk feed last night, I thought it was the beer and curries playing tricks on my mind at first, ended up reading it all and realising it was 10 minutes of my life I'll never get back...[emoji23]
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Quote from: shiny on October 7, 2018, 08:04
Interesting read.... I am going down the N/A route too.
I am looking at Apexi management? Will be interested in the mentioned Emanage
results above though.
Have you purchased the Apexi?
I would consider Ecumaster classic or black as a much more modern product with greater features for possibly not much more money.
Especially with the UK group buy price.
Quote from: shnazzle on October 7, 2018, 10:52
Makes one not want to bother to be honest. Just stock rebuild and enjoy it
Boring !!!
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Quote from: shiny on October 7, 2018, 12:30
Quote from: shnazzle on October 7, 2018, 10:52
Makes one not want to bother to be honest. Just stock rebuild and enjoy it
Boring !!!
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Ooooh... shots fired![emoji23]
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Quote from: Call the midlife! on October 7, 2018, 11:01
Just remind me though Bernie, are yours 1 or 2 Crowers? I can't remember, my main issue is not we.ther they're any good, I know they are and get the results I'm after in the long term.
It's how long I can feasibly live with the car on stage 2s before I take it to get mapped somewhere.............
Personally I would be wondering how liveable it would be as a road car on stage 2s even after it has been mapped, especially if you are just using a piggyback, as I believe the emanage can only adjust the fuel and ignition maps not the VVTI. I would be concerned that it would blow a hole in your bottom end torque curve.
Never had the money to look into tuning my previous 2s, but with a Zero on the way and a Unichip picked up on here last month (yet to fit) I have also wondered about eventually changing the cams, but probably wouldn't ever look to go beyond stage 1s myself.
There is a decent amount of knowledge on here about using the stage 1 cams with an otherwise relatively stock engine (if you check the stickies at the top you can see that Wabbitkilla went this route as well as FGrob) and it is a proven route to a practical road tune with circa 170bhp.
It seems that Tommyzooms car makes good torque on stage 2 cams, but as you are probably already aware it also uses 12.1 pistons (stock is 10,1 I believe so a significant compression hike) has had some head work and uses a standalone.........
Suggest you have a good read up on Spyderchat (if you haven't already) as I would imagine that stage 2 crower fitment will be a more well trodden path on there.
Have you seen this review for the stage 1s on MWR?
1 review for Crower Cam Set – Toyota 1ZZ-FE – Stage 1
Rated 4 out of 5
christopher mack – March 6, 2009
Nice cams, easy to install and customer support from crower is very good. Power increase is noticable, I hav'nt had it on a dyno yet, but the car pulls much harder and is consistant through out the rev range. I did'nt notice any drop in torque like a lot of people have complained about with the stage 2 cams. All in all a great product, great mod, I would highly reccomend. Sounds great with my AEM intake too.
Yeah, as I said in my initial post I've read all the various posts and am aware of the limitations of the Emanage etc. Was just canvassing opinions or facts on if it would actually run the stage 2s without a standalone, something we've still not got to the bottom of.
For what it's worth the guy at MWR suggested I would get the best useable improvement from the stage 1 over a stage 2 WITHOUT a standalone to change the rev limits.
I think I'm leaning towards staying with the stage 1, pending a phone call or two in the week.
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Perhaps I slightly got the wrong end of the stick. When you said how long can you live with it on stage 2s before you get it mapped somewhere, I had assumed you meant you would be getting the Emanage mapped, however I'm thinking now you meant a standalone ??
Quote from: K T M Rider on October 7, 2018, 15:14
Perhaps I slightly got the wrong end of the stick. When you said how long can you live with it on stage 2s before you get it mapped somewhere, I had assumed you meant you would be getting the Emanage mapped, however I'm thinking now you meant a standalone ??
Nah, it's always been the plan to get a standalone eventually, the Blue is just a stopgap until I do. Wether it be Greggs or somewhere more local.
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The stage 2 cams should be absolutely fine with a standalone then mate
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Quote from: Call the midlife! on October 7, 2018, 15:18
Quote from: K T M Rider on October 7, 2018, 15:14
Perhaps I slightly got the wrong end of the stick. When you said how long can you live with it on stage 2s before you get it mapped somewhere, I had assumed you meant you would be getting the Emanage mapped, however I'm thinking now you meant a standalone ??
Nah, it's always been the plan to get a standalone eventually, the Blue is just a stopgap until I do. Wether it be Greggs or somewhere more local.
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Ok, now it all makes a bit more sense :) Definitely alot more logical to get a standalone if looking at stage 2s but you didn't actually mention that in your original post - just something about going to greggs which I thought might just be you changing your pie supplier ;)
Quote from: K T M Rider on October 7, 2018, 16:44
Quote from: Call the midlife! on October 7, 2018, 15:18
Quote from: K T M Rider on October 7, 2018, 15:14
Perhaps I slightly got the wrong end of the stick. When you said how long can you live with it on stage 2s before you get it mapped somewhere, I had assumed you meant you would be getting the Emanage mapped, however I'm thinking now you meant a standalone ??
Nah, it's always been the plan to get a standalone eventually, the Blue is just a stopgap until I do. Wether it be Greggs or somewhere more local.
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Ok, now it all makes a bit more sense :) Definitely alot more logical to get a standalone if looking at stage 2s but you didn't actually mention that in your original post - just something about going to greggs which I thought might just be you changing your pie supplier ;)
I thought EVERYONE knew about Greggs...[emoji38]
We still haven't got an answer on if it'll run WITHOUT the standalone though...
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Quote from: Call the midlife! on October 7, 2018, 16:47
Quote from: K T M Rider on October 7, 2018, 16:44
Quote from: Call the midlife! on October 7, 2018, 15:18
Quote from: K T M Rider on October 7, 2018, 15:14
Perhaps I slightly got the wrong end of the stick. When you said how long can you live with it on stage 2s before you get it mapped somewhere, I had assumed you meant you would be getting the Emanage mapped, however I'm thinking now you meant a standalone ??
Nah, it's always been the plan to get a standalone eventually, the Blue is just a stopgap until I do. Wether it be Greggs or somewhere more local.
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Ok, now it all makes a bit more sense :) Definitely alot more logical to get a standalone if looking at stage 2s but you didn't actually mention that in your original post - just something about going to greggs which I thought might just be you changing your pie supplier ;)
I thought EVERYONE knew about Greggs...[emoji38]
We still haven't got an answer on if it'll run WITHOUT the standalone though...
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Oh and for what it's worth, I wouldn't go near a Greggs pie unless I was really desperate...
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Lee told me it would run on the Celica ecu but the idle would need to be adjusted to a little higher. A standalone will get all you can out of the stage 2 cams though, whereas the stock ecu won't
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Cams, springs, valves, potentially some buckets, free(er) flowing exhaust a standalone ecu for 30ish hp :)
3.5k? Excluding engine rebuild, call it 500.
4k?
Does that sound about right?
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Quote from: shnazzle on October 8, 2018, 10:41
Cams, springs, valves, potentially some buckets, free(er) flowing exhaust a standalone ecu for 30ish hp :)
3.5k? Excluding engine rebuild, call it 500.
4k?
Does that sound about right?
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Well, when you put it like that...
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Quote from: Call the midlife! on October 8, 2018, 11:17
Quote from: shnazzle on October 8, 2018, 10:41
Cams, springs, valves, potentially some buckets, free(er) flowing exhaust a standalone ecu for 30ish hp :)
3.5k? Excluding engine rebuild, call it 500.
4k?
Does that sound about right?
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Well, when you put it like that...
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and less low rpm torque?
Quote from: K T M Rider on October 8, 2018, 11:59
Quote from: Call the midlife! on October 8, 2018, 11:17
Quote from: shnazzle on October 8, 2018, 10:41
Cams, springs, valves, potentially some buckets, free(er) flowing exhaust a standalone ecu for 30ish hp :)
3.5k? Excluding engine rebuild, call it 500.
4k?
Does that sound about right?
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Well, when you put it like that...
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and less low rpm torque?
Without the standalone possibly.
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Quote from: Call the midlife! on October 8, 2018, 11:17
Quote from: shnazzle on October 8, 2018, 10:41
Cams, springs, valves, potentially some buckets, free(er) flowing exhaust a standalone ecu for 30ish hp :)
3.5k? Excluding engine rebuild, call it 500.
4k?
Does that sound about right?
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Well, when you put it like that...
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It does make for a very feisty 1zz. And we love the 1zz.
But if 4k is about right, I know I haven't got a chance in hell haha
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My 2zz conversion has so far cost me about 6k. That includes a very low mileage 2zz engine, gearbox etc. Brand new custom built exhaust system, Stage 2 cams fitted and new standalone ecu. This includes the shipping to NI, installation and mapping
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Sorry, it also includes brand new subframe, and a set of 17" Buddy Club P1 tyres
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Quote from: shnazzle on October 8, 2018, 12:52
Quote from: Call the midlife! on October 8, 2018, 11:17
Quote from: shnazzle on October 8, 2018, 10:41
Cams, springs, valves, potentially some buckets, free(er) flowing exhaust a standalone ecu for 30ish hp :)
3.5k? Excluding engine rebuild, call it 500.
4k?
Does that sound about right?
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Well, when you put it like that...
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It does make for a very feisty 1zz. And we love the 1zz.
But if 4k is about right, I know I haven't got a chance in hell haha
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I know mate, it's a bit different for me at the moment obviously. And you can't take it with you so I might as well spend it now instead of H blowing it later![emoji38]
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Quote from: Call the midlife! on October 8, 2018, 13:03
Quote from: shnazzle on October 8, 2018, 12:52
Quote from: Call the midlife! on October 8, 2018, 11:17
Quote from: shnazzle on October 8, 2018, 10:41
Cams, springs, valves, potentially some buckets, free(er) flowing exhaust a standalone ecu for 30ish hp :)
3.5k? Excluding engine rebuild, call it 500.
4k?
Does that sound about right?
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Well, when you put it like that...
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It does make for a very feisty 1zz. And we love the 1zz.
But if 4k is about right, I know I haven't got a chance in hell haha
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I know mate, it's a bit different for me at the moment obviously. And you can't take it with you so I might as well spend it now instead of H blowing it later![emoji38]
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I'd say follow in Tommy's footsteps and go for it!
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Quote from: shnazzle on October 8, 2018, 13:10
Quote from: Call the midlife! on October 8, 2018, 13:03
Quote from: shnazzle on October 8, 2018, 12:52
Quote from: Call the midlife! on October 8, 2018, 11:17
Quote from: shnazzle on October 8, 2018, 10:41
Cams, springs, valves, potentially some buckets, free(er) flowing exhaust a standalone ecu for 30ish hp :)
3.5k? Excluding engine rebuild, call it 500.
4k?
Does that sound about right?
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Well, when you put it like that...
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It does make for a very feisty 1zz. And we love the 1zz.
But if 4k is about right, I know I haven't got a chance in hell haha
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I know mate, it's a bit different for me at the moment obviously. And you can't take it with you so I might as well spend it now instead of H blowing it later![emoji38]
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I'd say follow in Tommy's footsteps and go for it!
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Just looking for upgraded valves at the moment over a nice bowl of Oxtail soup..
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The valves really were under the assumption that you're going to increase the max rpm to make good use of all the new flow.
If not, stock valves should be fine
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Quote from: shnazzle on October 8, 2018, 14:17
The valves really were under the assumption that you're going to increase the max rpm to make good use of all the new flow.
If not, stock valves should be fine
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Maybe spend that money on 12:1 pistons ;D
Either way a very impressive level of wallet emptying and a tuned 1ZZ is the way I'd go :)
K20 for me if you want to stay NA
Quote from: shnazzle on October 8, 2018, 14:17
The valves really were under the assumption that you're going to increase the max rpm to make good use of all the new flow.
If not, stock valves should be fine
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Taken under advisement from yourself and others knowledgeable in the field it's been suggested uprated valves should be a prerequisite for stage 2 cams, due to experiences of the tips breaking off on standard valves.
And as I'm already committed to a good part of the build and don't want to replace the heart of the car then I need to find some valves as well now![emoji23]
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Good man.
Also,consider a stronger flywheel and clutch for themz extra revvz
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Quote from: shnazzle on October 8, 2018, 15:00
Good man.
Also,consider a stronger flywheel and clutch for themz extra revvz
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Hmmm.. to quote Papa Lazarou "this is just a saga now"... [emoji23]
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Quote from: Call the midlife! on October 8, 2018, 15:16
Quote from: shnazzle on October 8, 2018, 15:00
Good man.
Also,consider a stronger flywheel and clutch for themz extra revvz
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Hmmm.. to quote Papa Lazarou "this is just a saga now"... [emoji23]
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I said consider, not absolutely do :)
Can always be done later
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Quote from: shnazzle on October 8, 2018, 15:35
Quote from: Call the midlife! on October 8, 2018, 15:16
Quote from: shnazzle on October 8, 2018, 15:00
Good man.
Also,consider a stronger flywheel and clutch for themz extra revvz
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Hmmm.. to quote Papa Lazarou "this is just a saga now"... [emoji23]
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I said consider, not absolutely do :)
Can always be done later
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Well following the same ethos as the rest of the proposal, while it's out and we're doing the work it makes sense to only do it the once!
Yet more research... or just look at page 41 of Tommyzoom's!
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Quote from: Call the midlife! on October 6, 2018, 21:07
Quote from: 1979scotte on October 6, 2018, 20:54
What is the ultimate goal here?
Are you looking long term to build an extreme NA 1zz like Bernie or Tommyzoom?
Or are you just looking for a bit more poke?
Was taking my lead from Bernie's in the first instance, falling short of Tommyzoom. Essentially wanting to put some power back to offset the extra weight I've added [emoji23]
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Be easier to go for a run ;)
Doh I'm about 49 posts behind haha
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Quote from: tomaky on October 8, 2018, 20:32
Quote from: Call the midlife! on October 6, 2018, 21:07
Quote from: 1979scotte on October 6, 2018, 20:54
What is the ultimate goal here?
Are you looking long term to build an extreme NA 1zz like Bernie or Tommyzoom?
Or are you just looking for a bit more poke?
Was taking my lead from Bernie's in the first instance, falling short of Tommyzoom. Essentially wanting to put some power back to offset the extra weight I've added [emoji23]
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Be easier to go for a run ;)
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A gentleman never runs, it's unseemly... (especially with my knees...)
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My conversion and installation is nearly complete. I'm happy to pass on the outcome in a few days time mate. Should be able to post the dyno logs etc
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Quote from: michaelb on October 8, 2018, 20:35
My conversion and installation is nearly complete. I'm happy to pass on the outcome in a few days time mate. Should be able to post the dyno logs etc
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Appreciated mate but keep in mind I'm 1zz so your dyno results won't really reflect possible results for my proposed build.
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Oh forgot mate. Well you'll get an idea of what stage 2 cams will do with a standalone ecu.
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If running NA swap to a 2zz, a 2zz as stock will easily outflow a modified 1zz in NA form, another option would be to run with the stock 1zz, run a standalone ECU, few bolt on breathing mods such as intake and exhaust and then just reduce the weight a bit.
BTW with my Apexi I revved my stock 1zz to 7k RPM but wouldn't go any higher.
Quote from: m1tch on October 11, 2018, 16:26
If running NA swap to a 2zz, a 2zz as stock will easily outflow a modified 1zz in NA form, another option would be to run with the stock 1zz, run a standalone ECU, few bolt on breathing mods such as intake and exhaust and then just reduce the weight a bit.
BTW with my Apexi I revved my stock 1zz to 7k RPM but wouldn't go any higher.
The OP is well aware of this but it's the road less traveled and something that can be a father and son activity.
Quote from: 1979scotte on October 11, 2018, 17:10
Quote from: m1tch on October 11, 2018, 16:26
If running NA swap to a 2zz, a 2zz as stock will easily outflow a modified 1zz in NA form, another option would be to run with the stock 1zz, run a standalone ECU, few bolt on breathing mods such as intake and exhaust and then just reduce the weight a bit.
BTW with my Apexi I revved my stock 1zz to 7k RPM but wouldn't go any higher.
The OP is well aware of this but it's the road less traveled and something that can be a father and son activity.
That it be Scotte, that it be! Cheers for that.
Mitch, due respect to all the 2zzers out there it's just not somewhere I want to be, not revving the nuts off all the time just to get it singing and dancing.
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Quote from: Call the midlife! on October 11, 2018, 18:02
it's just not somewhere I want to be, not revving the nuts off all the time just to get it singing and dancing.
:(
Sorry. i'll go away now :)
Quote from: delhusband on October 11, 2018, 18:39
Quote from: Call the midlife! on October 11, 2018, 18:02
it's just not somewhere I want to be, not revving the nuts off all the time just to get it singing and dancing.
:(
Sorry. i'll go away now :)
You've lost me now??
By the way, yours sounded lovely growling past me the other weekend when you shot off in search of Pat and The Wife!
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Quote from: Call the midlife! on October 11, 2018, 19:06
Quote from: delhusband on October 11, 2018, 18:39
Quote from: Call the midlife! on October 11, 2018, 18:02
it's just not somewhere I want to be, not revving the nuts off all the time just to get it singing and dancing.
:(
Sorry. i'll go away now :)
You've lost me now??
By the way, yours sounded lovely growling past me the other weekend when you shot off in search of Pat and The Wife!
Apologies, I misread your post
*edit* confused (and apologies for drifting off topic) to be clear, 2zz would appeal to me (and maybe K20). I like NA. I like that all need to be kept on tap. I love the drama.
Ill leave now (again) :-[
Does anyone have any info/ Dyno plots on stage 1 Vs 2?
Or is best to trawl Spyderchat?
I'd be interested to see where the power sits...
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I've just had stage 2 installed, the torque actually drops very slightly at 4500, then it picks up and keeps going all the way to red line.
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Quote from: delhusband on October 11, 2018, 19:18
Quote from: Call the midlife! on October 11, 2018, 19:06
Quote from: delhusband on October 11, 2018, 18:39
Quote from: Call the midlife! on October 11, 2018, 18:02
it's just not somewhere I want to be, not revving the nuts off all the time just to get it singing and dancing.
:(
Sorry. i'll go away now :)
You've lost me now??
By the way, yours sounded lovely growling past me the other weekend when you shot off in search of Pat and The Wife!
Apologies, I misread your post
*edit* confused (and apologies for drifting off topic) to be clear, 2zz would appeal to me (and maybe K20). I like NA. I like that all need to be kept on tap. I love the drama.
Ill leave now (again) :-[
Essentially I just want a bit more power to offset the extra weight and give a little more confidence for overtaking. I don't think I'd enjoy the 2zz experience of having to be up in the sixes and sevens all the time to make it worth putting one in.
Having said that, going with the planned stage 2s and uprated valvetrain will give me the extra benefit of higher revs than a "normal" 1zz so I don't keep hitting the limiter on desperate overtaking manoeuvres...[emoji38]
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Quote from: jvanzyl on October 11, 2018, 19:39
Does anyone have any info/ Dyno plots on stage 1 Vs 2?
Or is best to trawl Spyderchat?
I'd be interested to see where the power sits...
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All I know is and I quote "the difference is night and day, you won't regret the mid range power they supply over stage 1s"
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I wonder what stage 1 plus maf mod would be like in comparison to stage 2...
Quote from: Call the midlife! on October 11, 2018, 19:53
Quote from: jvanzyl on October 11, 2018, 19:39
Does anyone have any info/ Dyno plots on stage 1 Vs 2?
Or is best to trawl Spyderchat?
I'd be interested to see where the power sits...
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All I know is and I quote "the difference is night and day, you won't regret the mid range power they supply over stage 1s"
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Quote from: jvanzyl on October 11, 2018, 21:07
I wonder what stage 1 plus maf mod would be like in comparison to stage 2...
Quote from: Call the midlife! on October 11, 2018, 19:53
Quote from: jvanzyl on October 11, 2018, 19:39
Does anyone have any info/ Dyno plots on stage 1 Vs 2?
Or is best to trawl Spyderchat?
I'd be interested to see where the power sits...
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All I know is and I quote "the difference is night and day, you won't regret the mid range power they supply over stage 1s"
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About £1000 cheaper, that's for certain![emoji23]
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Rebuilding a 1zz might be a good activity then, I am enjoying rebuilding my engine - its amazing how simple it is, I think there are more parts in the cylinder head than the rest of the engine combined, main thing to check is clearances.