Hoping for some guidance.
The back story so far..
For the past couple of months I have been getting the P0420 code on Bank1 sensor 2, with the code appearing at the 150 mile mark.
No obvious leaks, and as I have just put a resistor on Bank 2 sensor 1, I thought perhaps it has to be the Bank 1 sensor 2 that has developed a fault... as with my luck things go together! Hoping it is not the cat.
I currently have a Toyosport manifold and Proflow exhaust fitted, with this problem appearing shortly after installation, but as stated above, no obvious leaks and no rattles from the cat or anywhere else.
Using the torque app and OBD11 I have watched all three sensors, re: voltage and fuel trim, with the following average results (keeping it brief);
Bank 2 sensor 1 - voltage varies as does fuel trim at various revs.
Bank 1 sensor 1 - voltage varies as does fuel trim until 2000 revs and cruising, then the voltage drops to 0 and fuel trim sticks at 19.5.
Bank 1 sensor 2 - voltage varies from 0.8-0.9 constant and fuel trim seems to stick at the -100.8 but eventually does move a little.
Put another Bank 1 sensor 2 in... this shows the same results as my original sensor (as above).
Excuse my ignorance, but is this normal for Bank 1 sensor 1?
And, infact what is normal for all sensors?
I have read various posts on various sites, trying to understand and resolve the P0420 code problem. Some have suggested adding an extension to the sensor, but I want to locate and resolve the problem, as to me that is just masking it... well if that works.
Advice and guidance greatly appreciated.
Dear Deviant
Can you revisit and edit your post for clarity.
You have bank 1 sensor 1 twice.
I think I know what you mean, but just to be sure.
You say you put another bank 1 sensor 2 in. Is that a new sensor?
B1 S2 is measuring the efficiency of the cat. If both reading the same. Suggests senors are working and reporting back the CAT is not well.
The 100.8 reading is not right.
Are the values provided when engine is properly up to temp?
Edit.
Do you have access to a multi meter?
The fuel trims will never read over (+/-) 30ish without a "too rich" or "too lean" code. So that's a bogus reading.
Voltage of 0.8/0.9 means "rich". In your case probably "very rich". No telling how rich. Just, at the max of richer than stoichiometric that the narrowband can measure.
I hate resistor "fixes" with a passion so it could have something to do with that.
Long term fuel trims should be 0 with a tolerance each way of about 7ish. Short term will swing back and forth.
Could be cat, could be leak, could be o2 sensors.
Quote from: Ardent on July 10, 2019, 21:20Dear Deviant
Can you revisit and edit your post for clarity.
You have bank 1 sensor 1 twice.
I think I know what you mean, but just to be sure.
You say you put another bank 1 sensor 2 in. Is that a new sensor?
B1 S2 is measuring the efficiency of the cat. If both reading the same. Suggests senors are working and reporting back the CAT is not well.
The 100.8 reading is not right.
Are the values provided when engine is properly up to temp?
Edit.
Do you have access to a multi meter?
Yes the values are at the proper temp, and the sensor was changed over from another MR2.
Yes I have a multimeter.
This post might be worth a look to rule in or out the sensors. Open the attached pic.
https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?msg=799752
Quote from: Ardent on July 10, 2019, 23:30This post might be worth a look to rule in or out the sensors. Open the attached pic.
https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?msg=799752
Thank you, will check. ;D
Your welcome
Thats the way we roll.
Which reminds me, need to check mine as I have some readings very similar to yours.
The torque pro is good is see things in real time. I usually go for a needle view but the graph view as uggested by some one helps with viewing the sensors. I would say my B1 S2 is lazy at best.
Checked finally between the rain:
2,1 = 17.2
1,1 = 9.2
1,2 = 16.5
All marginally out of spec then.
But not complete crazy out.
Perhaps
Clear fault, have a drive. Set torque pro to display and record. Review over a cuppa?
See what they are doing once up to temp.
Issue could be elsewhere, worth checking for leaks before getting new sensors.
I would say they're all in need of replacement.
@deviantmr-s Have pm'd you a link that may be helpful.
Might be worth double checking for any leaks as the other options are likely to invole wine tokens.
Leak detection spray? or the tissue on some long nose pliers.
I previously had leaks, never knew until exhaust stripped down for other reasons.
Quote from: Ardent on July 14, 2019, 16:54@deviantmr-s
Have pm'd you a link that may be helpful.
Might be worth double checking for any leaks as the other options are likely to invole wine tokens.
Leak detection spray? or the tissue on some long nose pliers.
I previously had leaks, never knew until exhaust stripped down for other reasons.
Will do, received thank you.
Just to add to this (found thread while researching) ive just had EML and same PO420 code come up after a long thrash down motorway at weekend, reset code with Torque app and it was fine for a few days including day on track and the return journey but EML and code came on again yesterday, i had forgotten about until then!
Was a little concerned it was my new cats2u cat fitted a few weeks ago but i checked post cat sensor output in Torque app and voltage is all over the place!, sometimes its ok but others it does very little so looks like the sensor has had its day to me, its been in and out a few times over past month swapping exhaust bits around so that wont of helped so ive just ordered a new Denso DOX-0206 from sparkplugs.co.uk after finding info on here :) , will get that fired in and see how we go, cat is still under warranty if it is the problem but i dont think so.
Ian
Sounds like my sensor.
Sporadic.
Fitted the new Denso post cat sensor today and readings look a lot better on torque app and not so lazy, however after a 10mile testdrive I scanned for error codes and the PO420 is back!... I did clear it after fitting new sensor but will run it for a few days see if it comes back again, i will also try and get local garage to t=do me a Mot emissions check to see what that reveals!
If its cat failed i will have to see just how good this warranty is they offer, i suspect they will find a loophole to get out of it but we will see, bit annoyed as its done less than 1000miles :(
Ian
Double check for leaks. From engine to cat
Quote from: shnazzle on July 20, 2019, 14:28Double check for leaks. From engine to cat
I think for first time in awhile since I fitted this cat im leak free but will check it all again, i struggled with leaks at the 3amigos with oe cat but now it seems ok, weirdly with the leak at 3amigos flange I never had any error codes, but they were very small only I could hear it at low revs in town etc but once removed you could see where it had been getting past the fire ring gasket. I think its the cat personally but we will see.
Were the ring gaskets cats2u or Mr Ts?
Quote from: thetyrant on July 20, 2019, 15:28Quote from: shnazzle on July 20, 2019, 14:28Double check for leaks. From engine to cat
I think for first time in awhile since I fitted this cat im leak free but will check it all again, i struggled with leaks at the 3amigos with oe cat but now it seems ok, weirdly with the leak at 3amigos flange I never had any error codes, but they were very small only I could hear it at low revs in town etc but once removed you could see where it had been getting past the fire ring gasket. I think its the cat personally but we will see.
It could absolutely be your cat. No doubt. That is what that code is for. But, just to isolate that it is indeed the cat. Tis free!
Quote from: Ardent on July 20, 2019, 15:39Were the ring gaskets cats2u or Mr Ts?
Ive had both types over past months when ive been changing parts about, currently on the cats2u ones which I know people don't rate but I think that's because they are not a perfect fit as supplied but people just force them in anyhows which i did on first set and they leaked quite quickly, next set I found that if modified them slightly the fit and seal perfectly and no signs of leaks in nearly 1000miles and 2 track events, the first set I just fitted without modding hoping them would compress to shape as they are slightly too large on outer diameter but they get deformed when you nip up the 3amigos, no doubt why people are having problems with them i think, I then went for MrT when I tried a used oe cat pipe which were straight fit no issues, but when I fitted this new cat I used another set of cat2u rings and shaved high spots off outer edge so they fitted neatly into the recess and they have been perfect and no leaks, been over full exhaust again yesterday checking for leaks and nothing, im hyper sensitive to hearing exhaust leaks but also used the tissue in pliers to check for air movement and nothing.
Will get it on the mot tester see what emissions are, reading the warranty advice pamphlet that came with new cat if i get this is should help identify if its cat and help with claim if it is.
I thought i was done with this after faffing about with used cats and then having flexi issues so just bought a new one hoping that was last of it, seems not!
Checked mine today.
2 min job even for me.
Spec is 11 - 16 @ 20c
Well in spec at 15.9
Though most of the things have been mentioned, let`s see if anything is missed.
According to the manual, the P0420 trigger is: After engine and catalyst are warmed up, and while vehicle is driven within set vehicle and engine speed range, waveforms of oxygen sensors (bank 1 sensor 1 and bank 1 sensor 2) have same amplitude (2 trip detection logic). Which if accurate, narrows the problem down to two sensors. However, I kind of doubt based on their troubleshooting guidelines.
1. Check for air leaks. Especially, since you have a new catalyst, the cat itself should be the last resort.
2. Check oxygen sensor resistance. This is one health status indication, but unfortunately does not guarrantee proper dynamic response, that we care of.
3. Use Torque. One of the important things is to ensure ECM has completed oxygen and catalyst control routines. To do so, use the DTC display and check the status. You will be surprised, how long it might take to complete them, even if you drive it daily...
4. Do the Toyota troubleshooting. Again use torque, but this time remove every display and graph apart from the voltage of the three oxygen sensors (the latter to ensure maximum refresh rate). As per MrT procedure:
(a) In our case use Torque to monitor the three voltages.
(b) Start the engine and warm it up with all the accessories switched OFF until water temperature is stable.
(c) Race the engine at 2,500 – 3,000 rpm for about 3 min.
(d) After confirming that the waveforms of the heated oxygen sensor (bank 1, 2 sensor 1 (OX1A, OX2A)), oscillate around 0.5 V during feedback to the ECM (at a constanst engine speed of about 2500-3000rpm), check the waveform of the heated oxygen sensor (bank 1 sensor 2 (OX1B)). If there is a malfunction in the system, the waveform of the heated oxygen sensor (bank 1 sensor 2 (OX1B)), is almost the same as that of the heated oxygen sensor (bank1, 2 sensor 1 OX1A, OX2A)).
So you would expect a slower response rate on the post-cat sensor.
Hopefully, the above will help narrow the problem down.
Well played Sir/Madam
That is a spot on post for someone with 12 posts. Someone has been busy reading or comes with a solid knowledge foundation. Either way, well played.
Quote from: Ardent on July 22, 2019, 23:17Well played Sir/Madam
That is a spot on post for someone with 12 posts. Someone has been busy reading or comes with a solid knowledge foundation. Either way, well played.
+1. I reckon I'll be reading this again.... ;-)
Quote from: potge on July 22, 2019, 22:282. Check oxygen sensor resistance. This is one health status indication, but unfortunately does not guarrantee proper dynamic response, that we care of.
Question about this though. I've heard of measuring the heater cct. I've checked the sensor wires themselves out of curiosity & got high M-Ohms...open circuit really. ????
Mr T gives a range of 11 to 16 when measured at 20 C.
If its out of spec, Mr T says replace. As per his manual.
Quote from: potge on July 22, 2019, 22:28Though most of the things have been mentioned, let`s see if anything is missed.
According to the manual, the P0420 trigger is: After engine and catalyst are warmed up, and while vehicle is driven within set vehicle and engine speed range, waveforms of oxygen sensors (bank 1 sensor 1 and bank 1 sensor 2) have same amplitude (2 trip detection logic). Which if accurate, narrows the problem down to two sensors. However, I kind of doubt based on their troubleshooting guidelines.
1. Check for air leaks. Especially, since you have a new catalyst, the cat itself should be the last resort.
2. Check oxygen sensor resistance. This is one health status indication, but unfortunately does not guarrantee proper dynamic response, that we care of.
3. Use Torque. One of the important things is to ensure ECM has completed oxygen and catalyst control routines. To do so, use the DTC display and check the status. You will be surprised, how long it might take to complete them, even if you drive it daily...
4. Do the Toyota troubleshooting. Again use torque, but this time remove every display and graph apart from the voltage of the three oxygen sensors (the latter to ensure maximum refresh rate). As per MrT procedure:
(a) In our case use Torque to monitor the three voltages.
(b) Start the engine and warm it up with all the accessories switched OFF until water temperature is stable.
(c) Race the engine at 2,500 – 3,000 rpm for about 3 min.
(d) After confirming that the waveforms of the heated oxygen sensor (bank 1, 2 sensor 1 (OX1A, OX2A)), oscillate around 0.5 V during feedback to the ECM (at a constanst engine speed of about 2500-3000rpm), check the waveform of the heated oxygen sensor (bank 1 sensor 2 (OX1B)). If there is a malfunction in the system, the waveform of the heated oxygen sensor (bank 1 sensor 2 (OX1B)), is almost the same as that of the heated oxygen sensor (bank1, 2 sensor 1 OX1A, OX2A)).
So you would expect a slower response rate on the post-cat sensor.
Hopefully, the above will help narrow the problem down.
Thanks for that and pretty much what ive been doing last few days so glad to hear im on right track, ive done a fair bit of research to try and work out the waveform and voltages I should be seeing on the post-cat sensor and as you say should be much less variable than the pre-cat sensors cycling up and down, what I find strange on my car is that the post-cat sensor does a bit of fairly static voltage at idle and steady revs like it should (although I see both low and high voltages which is odd!) but also sometimes does the same quick cycling that you get with pre-cat!, to me It points to the cat not being 100% efficient in its clean up of gasses but im still monitoring and yet to get on the mot emissions machine to see what that says.
I will take a couple of screenshots from Torque app running showing whats going on.
I did check and gap plugs and cleaned the maf on sunday which seems to have made a slight improvement in smoothness of car so maybe I had a mild misfire throwing fuelling out, ive not had cat error again since but haven't had a decent run out in car yet either so will get that done.
Ian
Quote from: potge on July 22, 2019, 22:28Though most of the things have been mentioned, let`s see if anything is missed.
According to the manual, the P0420 trigger is: After engine and catalyst are warmed up, and while vehicle is driven within set vehicle and engine speed range, waveforms of oxygen sensors (bank 1 sensor 1 and bank 1 sensor 2) have same amplitude (2 trip detection logic). Which if accurate, narrows the problem down to two sensors. However, I kind of doubt based on their troubleshooting guidelines.
1. Check for air leaks. Especially, since you have a new catalyst, the cat itself should be the last resort.
2. Check oxygen sensor resistance. This is one health status indication, but unfortunately does not guarrantee proper dynamic response, that we care of.
3. Use Torque. One of the important things is to ensure ECM has completed oxygen and catalyst control routines. To do so, use the DTC display and check the status. You will be surprised, how long it might take to complete them, even if you drive it daily...
4. Do the Toyota troubleshooting. Again use torque, but this time remove every display and graph apart from the voltage of the three oxygen sensors (the latter to ensure maximum refresh rate). As per MrT procedure:
(a) In our case use Torque to monitor the three voltages.
(b) Start the engine and warm it up with all the accessories switched OFF until water temperature is stable.
(c) Race the engine at 2,500 – 3,000 rpm for about 3 min.
(d) After confirming that the waveforms of the heated oxygen sensor (bank 1, 2 sensor 1 (OX1A, OX2A)), oscillate around 0.5 V during feedback to the ECM (at a constanst engine speed of about 2500-3000rpm), check the waveform of the heated oxygen sensor (bank 1 sensor 2 (OX1B)). If there is a malfunction in the system, the waveform of the heated oxygen sensor (bank 1 sensor 2 (OX1B)), is almost the same as that of the heated oxygen sensor (bank1, 2 sensor 1 OX1A, OX2A)).
So you would expect a slower response rate on the post-cat sensor.
Hopefully, the above will help narrow the problem down.
My notifications do not seem to be working, as this has progressed quite a bit...
I have rechecked for leaks along the system... none. I followed MrT's checks of the sensors and replaced b1,s1. I will be running torque later today to check the results.
Quote from: deviantmr-s on July 23, 2019, 09:30My notifications do not seem to be working, as this has progressed quite a bit...
I have rechecked for leaks along the system... none. I followed MrT's checks of the sensors and replaced b1,s1. I will be running torque later today to check the results.
Interested to see your findings with the new sensor and everything warmed up, i watched mine closley on drive to work today and cat seems to be doing its job at idle ok with a fairly steady 0.6/0.7v reading from post-cat 02 sensors, similar when cruising around 2000/2500 revs as well, however when sat stationary at those revs it seem a bit all over the place but still no ecu errors logged so far so maybe cat was a bit dirty and with plug gapping/maf cleaning ive made engine burn a bit nicer and give cat less to clean up, i dont think the oem cat is so fussy and no doubt a much higher quality unit but then it should be at the price!
Took a couple of screenshots of torque running at various points and will upload tonight when im home.
Will keep monitoring and get the mot emissions checked before my test which is due in September, maybe i will need to fix the flexi on my oem cat to get through test!, we will see.
Excuse my ignorance on the sensors, learning as I go...
After 25 mins still the cat check is incomplete (attached) and two readings(screenshots) from the sensors also attached.
Voltages checked afterwards:
2,1 = 15.6
1,1 = 22.5
1,2 = 16.7
Advice please for a novice to sensor reading, thank you.
Screenshot_20190723-111856_Torque.jpgScreenshot_20190723-111620_Torque.jpgScreenshot_20190723-111944_Torque.jpg
Also, can someone explain the below please to me?
Screenshot_20190723-120724_Torque.jpg
Quote from: deviantmr-s on July 23, 2019, 11:47Excuse my ignorance on the sensors, learning as I go...
After 25 mins still the cat check is incomplete (attached) and two readings(screenshots) from the sensors also attached.
Voltages checked afterwards:
2,1 = 15.6
1,1 = 22.5
1,2 = 16.7
Advice please for a novice to sensor reading, thank you.
Screenshot_20190723-111856_Torque.jpgScreenshot_20190723-111620_Torque.jpgScreenshot_20190723-111944_Torque.jpg
Doesnt look like your cat is working on that from what i can see as all 3 of the 02 sensors are cycling up and down, which is normal/good for x2 pre-cat sensors ( and post cat until warmed up) but the post cat should be a fairly steady line/voltage once cat is upto temperature if the cat is working as it should be, i get similar with mine then it goes steady when left to idle for awhile and will upload screenshot later.
Ian
Indeed. That is a knackered cat.
Could try some cataclean and an Italian tune-up and see what the readings say but it's not looking promising.
Heres a couple of screenshots from my Torque data today, post cat is bottom left graph and needle gauge above it, top 2 are the pre-cat 02's, weirdly this morning it looked ok with steady voltage around 0.6/0.7v which i beleive is ok ? also no Error codes or EML, driving home after lunch today the voltage didnt look so good with lot of post cat 02 fluctuation even once warmed up, finally settled to steady low voltage 0.1/0.2v and when i scanned for error P0420 was back! ....
Morning data with cat appearing to work ?
(http://carbotech-europe.com/images/rmr2-idle-catworking.jpg)
Afternoon data with cat doing strange things...
(http://carbotech-europe.com/images/rmr2-idle-cat-lowvolts.jpg)
Stupid car!
Quote from: thetyrant on July 23, 2019, 15:03Heres a couple of screenshots from my Torque data today, post cat is bottom left graph and needle gauge above it, top 2 are the pre-cat 02's, weirdly this morning it looked ok with steady voltage around 0.6/0.7v which i beleive is ok ? also no Error codes or EML, driving home after lunch today the voltage didnt look so good with lot of post cat 02 fluctuation even once warmed up, finally settled to steady low voltage 0.1/0.2v and when i scanned for error P0420 was back! ....
Morning data with cat appearing to work ?
(http://carbotech-europe.com/images/rmr2-idle-catworking.jpg)
Afternoon data with cat doing strange things...
(http://carbotech-europe.com/images/rmr2-idle-cat-lowvolts.jpg)
Stupid car!
Steady low voltage is still no good. It basically means it's running too lean for the cat to be effective. Hence p0420.
Perfect would be stft1 and 2 fluctuating between say 0.6 and 0.3, with 0 LTFT and post-cat flatlining slightly above 0.45v.
So, make your call based on how far you are from that
Factors are:
- aged o2 sensors
- leaking injectors
- dirty maf
- dirty air filter
- fouled sparks
- intake (vacuum) leak (lean condition)
- exhaust leak
- oil burning
- and probably a couple more that I'm forgetting
Quote from: shnazzle on July 23, 2019, 15:28Steady low voltage is still no good. It basically means it's running too lean for the cat to be effective. Hence p0420.
Perfect would be stft1 and 2 fluctuating between say 0.6 and 0.3, with 0 LTFT and post-cat flatlining slightly above 0.45v.
So, make your call based on how far you are from that
Factors are:
- aged o2 sensors
- leaking injectors
- dirty maf
- dirty air filter
- fouled sparks
- intake (vacuum) leak (lean condition)
- exhaust leak
- oil burning
- and probably a couple more that I'm forgetting
Indeed the steady low voltage has me most stumped!, and the fact its not doing it all the time!... i must get my wideband stuck in tailpipe see what that shows with the AFR so know what mixture is actually like, ive done a few things on your list as below..
-
aged o2 sensors - Post cat is new denso, 1 pre-cat is about 6months old denso, other precat couple of years old looking at previous history and all seem to cycle ok.
-
leaking injectors - dont think ive an issue here but getting them cleaned/checked is an option.
-
dirty maf - cleaned this at weekend, did seem to improve running a little but maybe placebo
-
dirty air filter - its pretty new
-
fouled sparks - had plugs out looked ok but bit light which is expected it its lean.
-
intake (vacuum) leak (lean condition) - cant see anything obvious checked clamps tight etc on pipework, will maybe pull it all off and go over it, car runs well enough though so dont think its that.
-
exhaust leak- pretty sure there isnt one been over it closley
-
oil burning - doesnt use any noticable amount of oil, think ive put 0.25litre top up in 4k miles since change
Car runs very well and if it wasnt for the P0420 i wouldnt think there was any issue!
Open to other ideas! :D
What are your long term trims like across the rev range?
Digital voltages display doesn't really help much as it fluctuates so much and our OBD2 speed is so slow.
I show;
STFT 1 and 2 (graph)
LTFT 1 and 2 (graph)
O21x1 (graph)
O22x1 (graph)
O21x2 (graph)
TPS (bar)
MAF (dig)
Coolant temp (dig)
Intake temp (dig)
Fueling status (dig)
Misfires (dig)
If you really want to go nuts, I built a handy spreadsheet where I can copy-paste logged values and it creates a nice table so that I can see exactly what my LTFT is across tps and rpm range.
Helps narrow down where thr car is over/under fueling. Very handy for mapping purposes on piggyback, and diagnosis.
I.e. If it runs lean at idle (lots of + LTFT in idle range) but fine/rich unser load; probably vacuum leak. Etc
I will get some more data for you on the trims but they are all pretty low corrections from what i remember when i checked the other day.
Quote from: shnazzle on July 23, 2019, 14:42Indeed. That is a knackered cat.
Could try some cataclean and an Italian tune-up and see what the readings say but it's not looking promising.
Already had two lots of cataclean through it, maf cleaned, filter changed, not burning oil and no leaks anywhere, been over it with a fine tooth comb yesterday. Oldest sensor is 3 years old.
About to take it out to graph again. Will try and take screenshots and post later.
Are the sensors all Denso?
Quote from: shnazzle on July 23, 2019, 16:25What are your long term trims like across the rev range?
Digital voltages display doesn't really help much as it fluctuates so much and our OBD2 speed is so slow.
I show;
STFT 1 and 2 (graph)
LTFT 1 and 2 (graph)
O21x1 (graph)
O22x1 (graph)
O21x2 (graph)
TPS (bar)
MAF (dig)
Coolant temp (dig)
Intake temp (dig)
Fueling status (dig)
Misfires (dig)
If you really want to go nuts, I built a handy spreadsheet where I can copy-paste logged values and it creates a nice table so that I can see exactly what my LTFT is across tps and rpm range.
Helps narrow down where thr car is over/under fueling. Very handy for mapping purposes on piggyback, and diagnosis.
I.e. If it runs lean at idle (lots of + LTFT in idle range) but fine/rich unser load; probably vacuum leak. Etc
Not sure how much use this will be but logged trip home after work and uploaded to datazap, resolution is poor though due to slow obd port but trims don't look so bad from what I can see ?
Link to log here - https://datazap.me/u/thetyrant/log-1563899984?log=0&data=2
Ian
Journey just taken and a map view of 1,2 sensor.
Is my cat definitely gone then?
Run it in to your friendly local MOT people. Give them a tenner. See if it passes... Then you'll know if it's the cat or the sensor.
The post-cat o2 readings are mirroring the two others.
I.e, the cat is doing nothing. Whatever its taking in is coming out.
Cat efficiency being shit doesn't perse mean non-passing emissions mind. It is possible to pass.
In my experience, 1ZZs with duff cats don't pass emissions tests.
if the car passes an emissions test, then, is there a problem?
Quote from: Carolyn on July 23, 2019, 20:06In my experience, 1ZZs with duff cats don't pass emissions tests.
if the car passes an emissions test, then, is there a problem?
Nope. But if it's running consistently lean, it'll fail on lambda. 1.03 is easily reached. Which would be annoying
Quote from: deviantmr-s on July 23, 2019, 12:11Also, can someone explain the below please to me?
Screenshot_20190723-120724_Torque.jpg
You can find more information in this Link (https://x-engineer.org/automotive-engineering/internal-combustion-engines/diagnostics/on-board-diagnostics-obd-modes-operation-diagnostic-services/)
From memory, the post-cat sensor is located on the cat assembly itself. Is there any chance that the aftermarket location is on a poor point?
Though this might also mask any underlying problems and make the car run improperly, have you tried a non-fouler?
Quote from: Carolyn on July 23, 2019, 19:20Run it in to your friendly local MOT people. Give them a tenner. See if it passes... Then you'll know if it's the cat or the sensor.
Will take in for a test and see what transpires, thank you.
Quote from: potge on July 23, 2019, 21:53From memory, the post-cat sensor is located on the cat assembly itself. Is there any chance that the aftermarket location is on a poor point?
Though this might also mask any underlying problems and make the car run improperly, have you tried a non-fouler?
It is in the same location as the standard. I would rather not try a non-fouler, for the reason you mentioned.
Can anyone with a known good cat and post lambda sensor do a graph log on torque at both idle and fast idle (2500rpm area) ? just want to know the sort of numbers a healthy setup gives from the post cat sesnors
Quote from: thetyrant on July 26, 2019, 10:32Can anyone with a known good cat and post lambda sensor do a graph log on torque at both idle and fast idle (2500rpm area) ? just want to know the sort of numbers a healthy setup gives from the post cat sesnors
This would be extremely helpful to check against.
Anyone?
Quote from: deviantmr-s on July 30, 2019, 09:33Quote from: thetyrant on July 26, 2019, 10:32Can anyone with a known good cat and post lambda sensor do a graph log on torque at both idle and fast idle (2500rpm area) ? just want to know the sort of numbers a healthy setup gives from the post cat sesnors
This would be extremely helpful to check against.
Anyone?
Unfortunately I can't help as I have a sports cat, so my values are a bit off anyway.
Quote from: shnazzle on July 30, 2019, 09:44Unfortunately I can't help as I have a sports cat, so my values are a bit off anyway.
Would still be interesting to see the numbers, if the sport cat is a good one and has passed mot emissions the numbers shouldnt be that far different for what im looking for.
Quote from: thetyrant on July 30, 2019, 09:54Quote from: shnazzle on July 30, 2019, 09:44Unfortunately I can't help as I have a sports cat, so my values are a bit off anyway.
Would still be interesting to see the numbers, if the sport cat is a good one and has passed mot emissions the numbers shouldnt be that far different for what im looking for.
Two new sensors and just been for emissions check and it would fail. :(
Points to the cat, I'm afraid.
Quote from: deviantmr-s on July 30, 2019, 15:09Two new sensors and just been for emissions check and it would fail. :(
Bugger looks like maybe your cat then, presuming you got the cat nice and hot before he tested it ?
Did you see numbers from emissions test to show how far out you are ? a failed cat should be miles out from the required CO requirements
Quote from: thetyrant on July 30, 2019, 15:17Quote from: deviantmr-s on July 30, 2019, 15:09Two new sensors and just been for emissions check and it would fail. :(
Bugger looks like maybe your cat then, presuming you got the cat nice and hot before he tested it ?
Did you see numbers from emissions test to show how far out you are ? a failed cat should be miles out from the required CO requirements
Yes nice and hot and miles out.
I have emailed Proflow for their advice and guidance, and await a response as to what cat I should replace in their system - but any advice would be greatly appreciated from you guys of infinite wisdom.
But be gentle with me, learning as I go...
;)
Get a bottle of cataclean on half a tank and givr the a good seeing too. Work that cat. See what it does. That's my only thought.
If your short term fuel trims and long terms are fine,your cat is dead unfortunately :(
Quote from: shnazzle on July 30, 2019, 18:01Get a bottle of cataclean on half a tank and givr the a good seeing too. Work that cat. See what it does. That's my only thought.
If your short term fuel trims and long terms are fine,your cat is dead unfortunately :(
Already had two lots of cataclean through... seems dead in the water. :-\
Ok little update from me on this, went over the cars intake last night removing the airbox and all pipework to check and refit, nothing obvious found but now know its all on properly (unlike some other things previous owner did!) also fitted new NGK plugs and had battery off while doing all this to reset all fuel trims etc.
Once back together went for fresh tank of fuel and then a blast up the local test route to Hartside summit :), car does seem to run a little smoother and pulls nicely enough, readings from the post cat sensor by time i was heading home with a nice hot exhaust seemed to of improved as well but im still not convinced cat is working as it should, i scanned for codes when i got home and P0420 was present (wasnt before i set off) but could be down to cat not getting upto temperature initially maybe ? ive reset it anyhows.
Will use car for next few days and see what happens and if code comes back, need to pop into mot place as well when i get a minute get him to put sniffer on it.
I hope thats it sorted as otherwise im going to have to refit my oe cat (after fixing flexi) and see if that sorts it.
Definitely get the sniffer test done after a good hard blast.The P0420 isn't an emissions code remember. It has no clue what your emissions are. It just isn't happy with the voltage the post-cat sensor is putting out over the required drive cycle.
So you may very well pass emissions with that code.
Quote from: shnazzle on August 2, 2019, 11:21Definitely get the sniffer test done after a good hard blast.The P0420 isn't an emissions code remember. It has no clue what your emissions are. It just isn't happy with the voltage the post-cat sensor is putting out over the required drive cycle.
So you may very well pass emissions with that code.
Indeed thats my goal as car is otherwise running ok from all checks ive done, i just need to be sure it doesnt cause issues with upcoming mot especially after having just spent £140+ on new cat (all be it primarily to sort the leaking flexi) i was hoping not to have any concerns with emissions tests or other exhaust issues, then i get this code a few weeks after fitting arrgh!
Code P0420 is an emissions test of sorts providing the sensors are working of course, its telling me cat isnt converting the gas as it should just same as MOT test, of course they test for HC, Lambda and other things as well but if sensor is good and P0420 is active then mot fail is inevitable on emissions in most cases i would think.
My concern is the new cat is perhaps not up to the job and needing serious heat to switch it active, OE cats are far higher quality and no doubt start working much quicker due to this, also the extra heat shielding on OE cat will help keep it upto temperature as well as protecting things mounted around it, there is no shielding on the cats2u/BM cat and also i currently dont have nappy/undertray fitted on so maybe all this isnt helping with cat dropping out of its zone, if that is the case of course!
Pesky cars :D
Quote from: thetyrant on August 2, 2019, 12:06Quote from: shnazzle on August 2, 2019, 11:21Definitely get the sniffer test done after a good hard blast.The P0420 isn't an emissions code remember. It has no clue what your emissions are. It just isn't happy with the voltage the post-cat sensor is putting out over the required drive cycle.
So you may very well pass emissions with that code.
Indeed thats my goal as car is otherwise running ok from all checks ive done, i just need to be sure it doesnt cause issues with upcoming mot especially after having just spent £140+ on new cat (all be it primarily to sort the leaking flexi) i was hoping not to have any concerns with emissions tests or other exhaust issues, then i get this code a few weeks after fitting arrgh!
Code P0420 is an emissions test of sorts providing the sensors are working of course, its telling me cat isnt converting the gas as it should just same as MOT test, of course they test for HC, Lambda and other things as well but if sensor is good and P0420 is active then mot fail is inevitable on emissions in most cases i would think.
My concern is the new cat is perhaps not up to the job and needing serious heat to switch it active, OE cats are far higher quality and no doubt start working much quicker due to this, also the extra heat shielding on OE cat will help keep it upto temperature as well as protecting things mounted around it, there is no shielding on the cats2u/BM cat and also i currently dont have nappy/undertray fitted on so maybe all this isnt helping with cat dropping out of its zone, if that is the case of course!
Pesky cars :D
I have a cats2u and I wrap my cat pipes for just that reason. Almost zero CO at last MOT.
Fact of the matter is that if your o2 sensors are all new and working, your cat is new and supposed to be working (whether it's a cats2u or not) and there are no leaks or anything then there is absolutely no reason why your car would throw a P0420.
My original cat was thoroughly knackered, as diagnosed by Steve@D1, and it still passed MOT twice and I never saw a P0420. I then put on a 2nd hand knackered cat with leaking flexis and still didn't see a P0420 until the flexis got much worse after a certain pothole incident on a Dales drive.
What I mean by P0420 is not an emissions code but a voltage code, is that the voltage may not be reliable for whatever reason; leak, dead sensor, bad wiring, etc.
So either your cat needs sending back, because it's just not up to scratch, or there is an issue that's being overlooked.
How did you check for exhaust leaks? Leaky flexis are not easy to spot. Sprayed soapy water on it? the piece of paper at the end of tweezers test?
Its certainly an odd one and can only trust the data that the sensors are working and that cat processing of gasses appears to be intermittent, i also previously had a leaking flexi and flange on the OE cat no P0420 code so not sure how big a leak you need to trigger the code!.
I think it would need to be a big leak as you found to trigger this code and ive checked the whole system for leaks, both by ear (which mine seem very sensitive for leaks as proven many times when ive heard peoples leaks and they had no clue), also using the tissue in pliers around the joins and sensors with no movement detected so im confident if there is a leak its tiny and nothing to do with the code in this case.
We are told the PO420 code is trigged by catalyst not cleaning up the exhaust gases so can only presume that is the case, hopefully its not like the P0125 code that reports as a coolant issue when its actually a pre-cat sensor failure!, sure someone would of figured out if that was the case though :)
As far as i can ascertain the post cat sensor is looking for less fluctuation in voltage compared to the pre-cat sensors, also wanting to see voltage around the middle of scale it can read so 0.4-0.5v to show cat is working efficiently, how often it checks and what conditions its working with and when it would decide that its not acceptable range etc to throw the code is the unknown, it could be all the time once coolant reads a certain amount but suspect its throttle and revs related as well as of course under high load or no load the engine output is very different, i would guess its at light throttle and above certain revs but below anything to high revs wise, say around 2-4k maybe light to medium throttle once coolant is 90+, my cat seems ok around 3k with voltage fairly steady around 0.5v but between 2-3k can be a little fluctuating so thinking that maybe the issue, it was a lot better last night so will keep an eye on it.
Hopefully its all good now but we will see, i have my doubts.
Quote from: Carolyn on August 2, 2019, 12:20I have a cats2u and I wrap my cat pipes for just that reason. Almost zero CO at last MOT.
Interesting, ave you seen issues without wrapping them or just belt and braces ?
Quote from: thetyrant on August 2, 2019, 13:15Quote from: Carolyn on August 2, 2019, 12:20I have a cats2u and I wrap my cat pipes for just that reason. Almost zero CO at last MOT.
Interesting, ave you seen issues without wrapping them or just belt and braces ?
Belt and braces. hot cats work best so....
Ive been doing some more reading on testing cats and found what was new info to me, basically measuring inlet and outlet temperatures on outside pipework with an infared thermometer is another good guide to proper functioning catalytic converter.
Its not something ive come across but a proper functioning cat should have higher outlet temperature than the inlet by approx 100degrees due to chemical reaction taking place, ive just checked mine after a quick drive out at lunchtime and it was just about bang on that with higher outlet temp so thats promising at least.
Hopefully useful info and its nice easy way to do a basic test if you have a infared thermoeter to hand that can read high enough, mine measured about 180c inlet and 270c outlet which is max of my infared gun, i guess exact number isnt critical its the difference your looking for to confirm reaction is going on inside, if temps is same or close both sides of cat then it aint working!
Indeed. There was a video from a popular YouTube mechanic explaining this years and years ago.
It's definitely effective
Havent used the car much this weekend but did bring it into work today (10mile trip), was fine going in nice and smooth with on issues, nipped home at lunch and got the EML on way back in :( , guessing its P0420 again but couldnt be bothered scanning it as i was so annoyed!....not going to mess about anymore and soon as a get chance with get it to mot centre for sniff test see what that shows up!
OK swung by my MOT guy yesterday afterwork and after 10minutes of chatting while car sat idling staying warmed up (had just done 10miles drive to get there) we hooked it upto the gas analyser to see what she is putting out.
Sat at idle and fully warmed up straight away it failed on CO as expected with numbers pointing to cat not performing as it should, next we held it at 3000rpm for fast idle test and after about 1 minute of this the cat became active and emissions dropped to as they should be, left it like that for a minute or so and emissions stayed constant at mot pass levels, let it drop it back to idle and stayed good for about 5minutes before emissions then rose again and went back to CO fail level.
So it would pass the MOT as it is providing it doesn't get any worse, but when driving normally/steady its not getting cat hot enough to keep the cat active which is triggering the P0420 code.
MOT guy is a decent bloke and I was lucky to catch him just before closing with no other jobs to get back to so was happy to chew the fat about other possible reasons etc, we discussed intake and exhaust leaks but way it reacts to higher revs and from what he is seeing on analyser he said its scream out as the cat not lighting up until revving it, possible either a small hole/bad seal in cat matrix that is sealing once fully hot or its just a poor cat which only works when properly hot.
I will be giving Cats2U a call when I get a minute see what they have to say.
Below are pictures from the tests, first up sat idling after 10mile drive to warm it up...
(http://www.carbotech-europe.com/images/catfail.jpg)
And after holding it at 3k rpm for a minute or so...
(http://www.carbotech-europe.com/images/catpass-2.jpg)
Sounds like it is behaving as if it is a 200 or 100 cell sports cat.
They need a good thrashing before they will pass mot especially the 100. Saying that I had a 200 on my turbo and that never threw a cat code.
My 200 throws a p0420.
Less so without my emanage, so it's quite sensitive to the mixture being just right
Interesting, so how do you keep the mixture "just so"?
Greg
Indeed its behaving exactly like a sport cat but its meant to be oe spec replacement so not sure whether to be happy it might be flowing better than oe, or mad that its not cleaning the exhaust up like oe does and it should be.
Hey, they pass inspection. Once hot, they do the job.
Quote from: Carolyn on August 6, 2019, 11:01Hey, they pass inspection. Once hot, they do the job.
Yeah but I can see that if he's no bought a oem-like replacement, it's not unreasonable to expect that it performs in the normal cycle. Especially as its quite new.
I'd be keen to send back with some test results and say, look, this one isn't doing what it says on the tin.
I know it's cheap as chips but still... :)
Quote from: shnazzle on August 6, 2019, 11:41Quote from: Carolyn on August 6, 2019, 11:01Hey, they pass inspection. Once hot, they do the job.
Yeah but I can see that if he's no bought a oem-like replacement, it's not unreasonable to expect that it performs in the normal cycle. Especially as its quite new.
I'd be keen to send back with some test results and say, look, this one isn't doing what it says on the tin.
I know it's cheap as chips but still... :)
Indeed my thoughts exactly, if i had bought it as a sports cat i would expect this sort of behavior and needing a lot of heat to pass mot etc, but as its meant to be a like for like replacement it shouldnt put the EML on for normal usage. I do wonder if the higher grade certified cat they offer would work better for the extra £30 they charge for it,
Interestingly the info/warranty pamphlet that comes with cat says PO420 is a common issue people see with them and its often not the cats fault, reading between the lines the cats are only just good enough to get the mot pass and any slight issue with car and it will give this code and possible mot fail, if they were £50 i would say fair enough but not at £150 it should work as oem in normal cycles, it could of course just be mine is slightly under spec so causing the problem but im skeptical :D
Also to add i guess if i still had precat manifold in place doing some gas cleaning then there wouldnt be an issue!
Will see what they say.
Aha. I wasn't aware they sold different "grades".
You probably did inadvertently buy a 200 cell.
Mine needed the high-idle to get it to conform.... and then settled down at low idle too. But then, when you're driving, 3,000 rpm under load must be sufficient for the cat to keep working. Mine, as I said, is now wrapped from the flexis to the cat. Got to help. The OEM is heavily heat-shielded, which must help the cat.
Mine will never throw that code' cos I'be told it not too. (And it's an MR S with no post-cat sensor...)
I wonder if I can swap over the heatshield from OEM cat to help keep it hot, rather not wrap it due to location and getting all soggy etc, as mentioned above mine would conform once heated with fast idle but after 5minutes sat idling it went out of spec again which is not good :(
I guess I could fit a fouler onto rear 02 to stop light coming on just shouldn't have to imo.
Quote from: thetyrant on August 6, 2019, 13:54I wonder if I can swap over the heatshield from OEM cat to help keep it hot, rather not wrap it due to location and getting all soggy etc, as mentioned above mine would conform once heated with fast idle but after 5minutes sat idling it went out of spec again which is not good :(
I guess I could fit a fouler onto rear 02 to stop light coming on just shouldn't have to imo.
Hard to imagine a hot exhaust 'getting soggy'...
Quote from: Carolyn on August 6, 2019, 14:00Hard to imagine a hot exhaust 'getting soggy'...
You havent been to Lake district then i take it and seen our big puddles lol :D in all seriousness i am a little concerned about the exposed cat with no shielding as we do get a good amount of rain up here, i try not to use the 2 in the rain but cant always be avoided, i dont like exhaust wrap on road cars so might see if oe heatshield can be adapted.
Still having the issue and think its getting worse with EML on several times at weekend after a 350mile round trip, ive spoken to Cats2u about it today and i need to submit a warranty claim on the website as 1st step but i cant for life of me find my Order ID/Paperwork arrrgh! no paperwork came in box with the cat and while i did get email confirmation with my order details at the time of purchase i cant find it typically!, i will have to see if i can turn it up otherwise i cant submit the claim :(
Best dig out the OE cats i have and see about fixing the flexi's as may need it for mot if we cant get it through with this one fitted! Annoyed with myself about paperwork as i keep everything as a rule but cant find this anywhere!
Will update as things progress.
Found my paperwork and will be getting a warranty claim in when i get a minute, ive so much on at moment ive not had chance and my other car is in for MOT this week then im away on holiday next week, MR2 needs MOT when im back and im tempted to get him to fail it on cat if it doesnt pass first time before really working it (might have no choice if its got worse) then i have a sheet to send for warranty claim.
I was monitoring the data yesterday when driving after having reset EML and its strange how there is no set pattern to when cat works and doesnt, i might refit the nappy see if the reduced airflow over cat helps keep it hotter but it seems a bit random anyhows and even when sitting at high speeds when cat should be very hot it drops in and out of being active, on sunday i had a fast blast over the a66 sat at a fair old speed as was a bit late setting off, no EML... then ran all day at sprint at Croft with multiple stop/starts and going from cool to very hot over 1 lap, no EML.... set off home at normal steady pace and about 10 minutes into the trip EML came on!, reset it and no further issues with it depsite data showing some non-cat active behavior on lots of the journey, stupid thing!
Do bear in mind it operates on a 2 trip logic to trigger the eml.
So whatever the circumstances are, they will need to happen back to back on seperate drives.
As I understand it.
Quote from: thetyrant on September 2, 2019, 11:26Found my paperwork and will be getting a warranty claim in when i get a minute, ive so much on at moment ive not had chance and my other car is in for MOT this week then im away on holiday next week, MR2 needs MOT when im back and im tempted to get him to fail it on cat if it doesnt pass first time before really working it (might have no choice if its got worse) then i have a sheet to send for warranty claim.
I was monitoring the data yesterday when driving after having reset EML and its strange how there is no set pattern to when cat works and doesnt, i might refit the nappy see if the reduced airflow over cat helps keep it hotter but it seems a bit random anyhows and even when sitting at high speeds when cat should be very hot it drops in and out of being active, on sunday i had a fast blast over the a66 sat at a fair old speed as was a bit late setting off, no EML... then ran all day at sprint at Croft with multiple stop/starts and going from cool to very hot over 1 lap, no EML.... set off home at normal steady pace and about 10 minutes into the trip EML came on!, reset it and no further issues with it depsite data showing some non-cat active behavior on lots of the journey, stupid thing!
Welcome to my world! Sounds incredibly similar to what has happened to mine. My outlook now is that I am no longer going to get worked up about it.
Indeed im the same i guess and forget about it for days then EML comes on again, which does annoy me again!, it will get sorted either before or after the mot but as im planning power upgrades over winter anyhows exhaust is on cards for upgrade to suit, just hoped for no hassles until then hence buying the cats2u unit, never mind we will get there :)
What are you doing with yours and is the cat pipe custom or just backbox ?
Quote from: thetyrant on September 2, 2019, 15:43Indeed im the same i guess and forget about it for days then EML comes on again, which does annoy me again!, it will get sorted either before or after the mot but as im planning power upgrades over winter anyhows exhaust is on cards for upgrade to suit, just hoped for no hassles until then hence buying the cats2u unit, never mind we will get there :)
What are you doing with yours and is the cat pipe custom or just backbox ?
It will be reverted back to standard shortly. The cat pipe is welded to the backbox as one unit, so the whole lot has to come off. The joys of owning an 2 I guess...
::)
Might have already asked but are you guys running aftermarket intakes?
Just asking bevause I always got p0420 with my sports cat, but since I switched back to stock intake, haven't seen it yet
Quote from: shnazzle on September 3, 2019, 07:12Might have already asked but are you guys running aftermarket intakes?
Just asking bevause I always got p0420 with my sports cat, but since I switched back to stock intake, haven't seen it yet
No just stock. Interestingly my mechanic friend has reiterated to me that with the manifold, cat and backbox he would expect that code coming up and is not a problem. But that does not explain why some get it and some do not when they change set ups! Just frustrating to say the least.
Stock intake here as well, I wonder if yours is just running better now with the stock intake which has been enough to give cat less work to do, probably get the EML next time out now your said that lol :)
Are you sure you're not both looking for patterns and meaning where there is none, and your cat has just failed?
Quote from: jonbill on September 3, 2019, 08:53Are you sure you're not both looking for patterns and meaning where there is none, and your cat has just failed?
More than likely for me, reverting back to stock for now.
It's quite simple really.
P0420 is cat efficiency. So, assuming no leaks of any kind, it's either your fueling (e.g. My situation with my aftermarket intake) or your cat.
Your fueling should be OK if:
- stock intake with clean filter
- stock ecu
- correctly working o2 sensors, and not overly aged.
- working and clean maf
- no leaks (vacuum or exhaust)
- no excessive oil burning
- clean, non-leaking and working injectors
- good state of correct spark plugs.
- no blockages in exhaust (pre or main cats)
The fueling can be verified by TorquePro or the like. If LTFT is around - /+5%, possibly +/- 10%
So if fueling is verified. It's your cat. End of. Your car is doing everything it can to be as efficient and low-emissions as it can,the rest is up to the cat.
There are aftermarket cats and aftermarket cats. The cheaper, the less expensive precious metal catalytic material. The less material, the less it can convert exhaust to acceptable levels. Spend little, expect p0420, particularly when cruising down the motorway. Expect to have to get it glowing red to pass MOT. If at all. Keep code reader plugged in and clear when it comes up.
Spend lots, you either get a 400 cell or a 200 with a lot of expensive precious metals that can adequately do the job.
Once you go down the route of 200 or less cells, for the budgets we usually have, you're really best to expect the occasional p0420 at best.
O2 foulers can provide some relief.
Quote from: jonbill on September 3, 2019, 08:53Are you sure you're not both looking for patterns and meaning where there is none, and your cat has just failed?
Yes indeed my cat is at fault ive proven that as Ive done all the tests including mot emissions test at garage to confirm intermittent operation, im now just curious as to the logic ECU uses to determine the problem but no logical pattern ive found, it doesnt matter i was just curious :)
My cat is new with less than thousand miles on it before it started to work intermittently, i did several hundred miles and few long motorway journeys without problems then it just fired up the EML about a month after fitting it, no doubt some issue with quality as it should last a bit longer that that i feel, i dont expect it to last 14years like the OEM one did before flexi failed (cat itself still working just the flexi failed) but do expect it to last longer than it has, no doubt i will have to return it for inspection so interested to see what they say.
Fwiw, I've got two cars with cats2u cats - both have done about 15k miles without problems.
Neither of us are statistically significant, but I expect many on here use them and we don't hear a lot of problems, so I hope you've been unlucky and maybe they'll sort you out with a warranty replacement.
Good to hear you had decent life from them so there is hope :)
Refitted the nappy last night and only had a 10 mile or so testdrive but data from the post cat 02 sensor certainly looked more stable so the extra heat from having cat partly shielded by nappy seems to help, I couldn't believe how hot engine bay was when I got back and I wasn't thrashing it! I removed nappy just after car purchase to sort a few jobs and service etc so not had much experience running with it to compare, certainly seems to make it hotter under the hood with it fitted though.
Had it in for MOT today and initially as previous check it failed until cat got very hot by holding much longer than normal on fast idle when he was able to get it to pass, cant be bothered faffing about with it now as will be changed when I upgrade the engine im just going to fit a fouler on rear 02 to keep the EML off, any recommendations for a fouler that fits nicely on these cars ?
Quote from: thetyrant on September 21, 2019, 13:03Had it in for MOT today and initially as previous check it failed until cat got very hot by holding much longer than normal on fast idle when he was able to get it to pass, cant be bothered faffing about with it now as will be changed when I upgrade the engine im just going to fit a fouler on rear 02 to keep the EML off, any recommendations for a fouler that fits nicely on these cars ?
I bought mine from Profusion.
Quote from: shnazzle on September 21, 2019, 13:13Quote from: thetyrant on September 21, 2019, 13:03Had it in for MOT today and initially as previous check it failed until cat got very hot by holding much longer than normal on fast idle when he was able to get it to pass, cant be bothered faffing about with it now as will be changed when I upgrade the engine im just going to fit a fouler on rear 02 to keep the EML off, any recommendations for a fouler that fits nicely on these cars ?
I bought mine from Profusion.
Just a straight extension/adaptor? or did you need an angled one for our cars ?
Quote from: thetyrant on September 22, 2019, 08:20Quote from: shnazzle on September 21, 2019, 13:13Quote from: thetyrant on September 21, 2019, 13:03Had it in for MOT today and initially as previous check it failed until cat got very hot by holding much longer than normal on fast idle when he was able to get it to pass, cant be bothered faffing about with it now as will be changed when I upgrade the engine im just going to fit a fouler on rear 02 to keep the EML off, any recommendations for a fouler that fits nicely on these cars ?
I bought mine from Profusion.
Just a straight extension/adaptor? or did you need an angled one for our cars ?
Straight one worked for me