So - starting a SMT Turbo build!
Firstly - the car. Black FL SMT with 27k, stuck in a field in gear. Bought it for a song. Took all of two hours to fix!
I've had it for a few months now and bought it to fix and sell on, as I already have a std manual n/a FL daily. But it's just too nice to part with, so I'm thinking it's a fun weekend car for blasts around the twisties which can hold it's own with the Evo / ST crowd. Hoping to do the NC 500 in the summer if it's together in time.
so - Turbo Bits ordered so far:
Malian Turbo fitting kit with Cat, mates up to std exhaust (the one on eBay)
Pattern Garret GT2560R - will upgrade to genuine in the future. (edited from GT2860R!)
MWR EMS 4 harness / MAP sensor combo, plus base map.
AEM Wideband, Boost and Innovate Oil Pressure / Temperature gauges.
440cc Injectors
Roadster Sport Kevlar clutch
Competition Clutches lightened flywheel
Air to Water charge cooler
Refurbed FL rear wheels x 4 with new Toyo TR1 205 45 R16s (square set up)
The clutch and flywheel have been fitted and I'm running them in. I've the turbo fitting kit and electronics, just waiting for the turbo itself and some misc fittings. Then looking to launch into the build itself.
Wish me luck!
WISHING YOU LUCK; even toes crossed!!
Sounds like it will be proper leisure fun do drive awfully quick!
I am in awe.
How much is the AEM Ems I would recommend either Ecumaster or Link standalone ecu. As you've already bought it I suppose it doesn't matter.
Careful when tunning that turbo is plenty big enough to blow the engine or gearbox a gt25xx is a better fit for a stick 1zz.
Toyo T1r They're OK and I ran them on my turbo but you'd be better off with something more up market.
Charge cooler is always better in mid engine than intercooler imho 👍
Enjoy it but be careful completely different beast with over 200 horses.
All these SMT posts today I'm starting to want one. Interested to see how this one goes, sounds like it'll be good fun!
Good luck with the project.
I hope you will be bringing it to Ding Day?!
SMT and turbo equals great fun
Look forward to seeing the build
200bhp in a mr2 is great fun :)
Quote from: 1979scotte on January 28, 2020, 17:49How much is the AEM Ems I would recommend either Ecumaster or Link standalone ecu. As you've already bought it I suppose it doesn't matter.
Careful when tunning that turbo is plenty big enough to blow the engine or gearbox a gt25xx is a better fit for a stick 1zz.
Toyo T1r They're OK and I ran them on my turbo but you'd be better off with something more up market.
Charge cooler is always better in mid engine than intercooler imho 👍
Enjoy it but be careful completely different beast with over 200 horses.
Toyo TR1 NOT the T1R. Totally different beast!!
Went with the EMS4 / MWR combo as that will allow the factory ECU to stay in place and run the TCU - otherwise would have gome with the ECUMaster...
Quote from: lancs_lad on January 28, 2020, 20:35Quote from: 1979scotte on January 28, 2020, 17:49How much is the AEM Ems I would recommend either Ecumaster or Link standalone ecu. As you've already bought it I suppose it doesn't matter.
Careful when tunning that turbo is plenty big enough to blow the engine or gearbox a gt25xx is a better fit for a stick 1zz.
Toyo T1r They're OK and I ran them on my turbo but you'd be better off with something more up market.
Charge cooler is always better in mid engine than intercooler imho 👍
Enjoy it but be careful completely different beast with over 200 horses.
Toyo TR1 NOT the T1R. Totally different beast!!
Went with the EMS4 / MWR combo as that will allow the factory ECU to stay in place and run the TCU - otherwise would have gome with the ECUMaster...
All standalone still require the 1zz ecu to run the clocks. Nobody has ever hacked the codes. No idea weither any ecu can run the smt.
I forget about the tr1 silly me.
The ECUMaster keeps the original ECU and functionality, just for the information for others.👍🏻
Looking forward to seeing your build, the manifold you have bought is pretty poor design but it should work ok i guess.
Quote from: thetyrant on January 29, 2020, 09:12Looking forward to seeing your build, the manifold you have bought is pretty poor design but it should work ok i guess.
What don't you like about the manifold?
It's a bit rough around the edges and just a simple log manifold but should do a job.
Sort of thing that Al from the skid factory makes up for all his builds.
Quote from: 1979scotte on January 29, 2020, 09:18Quote from: thetyrant on January 29, 2020, 09:12Looking forward to seeing your build, the manifold you have bought is pretty poor design but it should work ok i guess.
What don't you like about the manifold?
It's a bit rough around the edges and just a simple log manifold but should do a job.
Sort of thing that Al from the skid factory makes up for all his builds.
Mainly the design with its very different runner lengths and flow angle into turbo collector, it has 2 long runners for outer cylinders and 2 much shorter ones for inner pots all with very poor angles into turbo, looks like something a diy'er would knock up from offcuts in his shed (apart from welds which do look ok) and for a professional manifold i think its poor, while im sure it will work to a degree something like the turbokits cast item is much better design and same sort price on its own.
Quote from: thetyrant on January 29, 2020, 10:05Quote from: 1979scotte on January 29, 2020, 09:18Quote from: thetyrant on January 29, 2020, 09:12Looking forward to seeing your build, the manifold you have bought is pretty poor design but it should work ok i guess.
What don't you like about the manifold?
It's a bit rough around the edges and just a simple log manifold but should do a job.
Sort of thing that Al from the skid factory makes up for all his builds.
Mainly the design with its very different runner lengths and flow angle into turbo collector, it has 2 long runners for outer cylinders and 2 much shorter ones for inner pots all with very poor angles into turbo, looks like something a diy'er would knock up from offcuts in his shed (apart from welds which do look ok) and for a professional manifold i think its poor, while im sure it will work to a degree something like the turbokits cast item is much better design and same sort price on its own.
Your theory is sound but it's not really going to make much difference. It's not a race car or a built engine if you watch mighty car mods or skid factory you'll see them use similar home made log manifolds from steam pipe and achieve some very good results.
Got to say for £1k they could do a bit better though and calling it a kit is a bit much.
There is a line of thought that unequal length runners are desireable for turbo use. The pulses will have a wider range of interferences, with the negative effect being half that of equal length.
The two outer and two inner makes sense following that line of thought.
That totally apart from the quality of manufacture and the angles of the flow ofcourse which are criteria on their own.
Quote from: 1979scotte on January 29, 2020, 13:26Your theory is sound but it's not really going to make much difference. It's not a race car or a built engine if you watch mighty car mods or skid factory you'll see them use similar home made log manifolds from steam pipe and achieve some very good results.
Got to say for £1k they could do a bit better though and calling it a kit is a bit much.
Indeed it will still work in that the turbo will see exhaust gasses to spin it, just not as well as a better designed unit and while the runner length isnt a huge concern as it has advantages and disadvantages for various scenarios but to me main problem is the right angles the gases are being asked to turn around sharp edges which is never a good thing, as you say its not a race car and for a low boost road car it will be fine, should only cost £100 looking like it does though :D
I am keen to see someone get one of these manifolds up and running on a car as i dont think ive seen one yet, come on Stewart its been a whole day since you started this thread it must be ready now :D
Haha! I know, tell me about it.
Fortunately I didn't pay anything like full price for the kit, Lewis had a Xmas special on them and I had a £400 discount.
Just a few things to arrive and I can start.
The MWR harness/ EMS 4 combo is the only one as far as I know that works with the SMT system.
I've had a tweak with the base map, modified the fuel map to work with the 440cc injectors and enabled closed loop AFR and knock detection. Should be interesting!
Good luck I've gone off piggbacks. They really wouldn't run my Supercharged V6.
Quote from: lancs_lad on January 29, 2020, 23:29Haha! I know, tell me about it.
Fortunately I didn't pay anything like full price for the kit, Lewis had a Xmas special on them and I had a £400 discount.
Just a few things to arrive and I can start.
The MWR harness/ EMS 4 combo is the only one as far as I know that works with the SMT system.
I've had a tweak with the base map, modified the fuel map to work with the 440cc injectors and enabled closed loop AFR and knock detection. Should be interesting!
Nice one thats a bit more like it :)
Tip on the mapping turn off the closed loop fueling for AFR until you get the base map somewhere close, closed loop fueling is really just for very fine tuning in variations of air temp and pressure so best practice to get the map close as you can before you switch it on.
Im presuming you have a wideband setup for monitoring the fueling ? if not get one :D
Not posted for a while so I thought I'd update :
The SMT Turbo has been a triumphant success - I'm now running 250ish at the crank (estimated), running 11PSi on a GTX2860RS Mamba billet BB turbo into a w/a intercooler. Lightened flywheel and clutch work a treat and the SMT system works beautifully with the turbo setup.
I've found the EMS4 a doddle to self-map with a decent wideband and log analysis. MAP based map so nice and stable. Had great fun chucking it around the Lakes with Dick before he sold his turbo.
The turbo is a .60 .64 AR and hits like a train - I can easily spin the wheels on launch and hits 9PSi at 3k.
So much for the SMT Turbo being impossible. It is quite easily the best fun car I have ever had. Last 0-60 from standing was just under 4.3 seconds (from the VSS / ECU log), and it's perfectly happy burbling along at 30 on the way to the shops. Couple that with the lightness and handling and its awesome. I've put about 3000 miles on it so far and it's completely reliable so far at this sort of power.
If anyone is contemplating turboing their MR2 - DO IT!!
@lancs_lad Well, 5 months ago things were very different to how they are now and you can certainly attest to that but in more of a good way than many.
Quote from: lancs_lad on June 28, 2020, 22:15So much for the SMT Turbo being impossible. It is quite easily the best fun car I have ever had. Last 0-60 from standing was just under 4.3 seconds
:o
I can imagine
@Petrus won't be sleeping well tonight.
Battling desire vs SP regs.
I'd be interested to have a run out in a turbo smt, to see the difference.
The SMT works really well with a turbo, especially the down shifts with auto blip :)
Nice work glad its all up and running sweetly :) i miss my turbo kit and will probably build another once i fix the engine!
How is this going ? all still good ? any pics of the install would be good too :)
Ive rebuilt my engine and ready to boost it again :), despite my concerns on this manifold as mentioned above im tempted to give one a try as easiest way to get a turbo strapped on, i can always change out the manifold further down the line if it does gives issues :)
Quote from: thetyrant on July 16, 2020, 10:39How is this going ? all still good ? any pics of the install would be good too :)
Ive rebuilt my engine and ready to boost it again :), despite my concerns on this manifold as mentioned above im tempted to give one a try as easiest way to get a turbo strapped on, i can always change out the manifold further down the line if it does gives issues :)
Second that in terms of the giving that manifold a try... it's basically this or paying for a chinese cast one, or stumping up for a turbokits one..
Quote from: jvanzyl on July 16, 2020, 11:00Second that in terms of the giving that manifold a try... it's basically this or paying for a chinese cast one, or stumping up for a turbokits one..
Its shame there is not more options out there, i was initally planning on turbokits manifold but from what i can see due to angle of mounting flange they are designed to mount the turbo with compressor inlet/outlets at drivers side of car and exhaust on passenger side, i liked the way my SP240 kit (and TTE-T kits) was which was the opposite way around and made packaging pipework in easier, looking at the Malian one it could be used either way around.
I found the Malian manifold to work fine. You can use a GT 2860 skyline set up, and the intake / exhaust are on the logical sides ie intake on the left. Also Malian do a nice 2.5" downpipe off the shelf with a O2 boss and stock flange location. C3DF56C2-4625-42D5-A56B-44C30C31D4A7.jpeg
Final figures - I'll run it like this for a while, can't really push the stock components much further without spending silly money....
Quote from: lancs_lad on November 25, 2020, 15:42Age of Car
2005 SMT
Miles
31k on car, 3k on build
Engine
Stock 1zz block and heads with 31k miles.
CC 3.9kg lightened flywheel
Exedy stage 2 clutch
Stew's special SMT fluid!
Stock fuel pump and regulator
Turbo Mods
Homebrew turbo system comprising :
Mamba GTX2860RS Billet BB .60 .64 Nissan SR20DET style with Stage 3 actuator. 6psi spring.
Malian turbo exh manifold, catless downpipe and single exit 2.5" system (all off the shelf).
HomeBrew w/a chargecooler - eBay radiator, bosch pump, eBay 5x8 barrel cooler. 12" Mishimoto fan.
440 DW Injectors.
MAC 3 port boost control solenoid.
Custom intake, breather system and cone filter.
Electronics
AEM EMS4 with full closed loop O2 control, boost control, knock control. Twin boost settings.
MWR EMS4 SMT harness (extensively modified! ;-) )
AEM AFR Gauge with 4.9 Bosch WB.
Innovate Oil temp / Pressure gauge
AEM Boost Gauge.
Bosch AIT sensor. Factory MAF and AIT also retained for TCU shift calculation.
Specs
240 WHP at 6250, 261Lb Ft at 3300. >225lb ft 3-6.5k
11-13Psi dependent on RPM (high boost)
10Psi flat (low boost)
7400 RPM Redline.
Stock internals seem fine at 260Lb Ft. Map and cam advance optimised for torque whilst keeping injectors at/below 85% duty.
We did one run at 95% duty - 316BHP / 275 Lb Ft! Don't think it would have lasted long at that sort of output.
Mapping by Wayne at Chipwizards in Rossendale.
Impressive numbers, bet the car drives nicely and proper quick. I had a smt turbo many years ago now and loved the setup.
Any pictures?
01b173d35e5f283af5c848860cba21804c2c09ad5d.jpg0157393683388f5bef15c0757bee1eeba10c37eedf.jpg01a24ced7842bbc6a069267e0dd274699650de2989.jpg
A few photos - dyno run (low boost map is first - I've since modified it so its about 240 BHP / 220LbFt for daily use). I've also smoothed out the oscillation caused by the feedback loop from the boost control system.
Turbo set up - just need to finish wrapping the manifold.
Climbing the hill by the Tan Inn...
Great setup and I'm sure it catches many other road users out :)
Quote from: lancs_lad on November 27, 2020, 17:21- dyno run (low boost map is first - I've since modified it so its about 240 BHP / 220LbFt for daily use).
By Jove that is ... ´nice´. Quite a push at 3k that is!!