Looks like my off side hand brake cable is toast. It moves but with too much stiction for the spring to return.
Any advice on cables, dropping the tank etc.
From what I have seen you don't need to fully disconnect the fuel pump.
I'd have to do it on stands. Can you do it just lifting the back end or do I need to lift on 4?
Surprising as this all started with the near side locking up
Is the rubber gaiter at the end intact or 'gone'?
It was gone I bought some replacements
Quote from: Newbie57 on May 17, 2020, 17:22Looks like my off side hand brake cable is toast. It moves but with too much stiction for the spring to return.
Any advice on cables, dropping the tank etc.
From what I have seen you don't need to fully disconnect the fuel pump.
I'd have to do it on stands. Can you do it just lifting the back end or do I need to lift on 4?
Surprising as this all started with the near side locking up
I'd want as much working room as possible, though you only need to drop the tank about four inches.
However, you could try disconnecting the cables at both ends and first dribbling WD or equivalent down and working the cable back and forth and then following up with light machine oil (like 3 in 1). I've rescued a couple like that. Mind you it's not as good as new cables..as old stiff ones are often a bit stretched.
Quote from: Carolyn on May 17, 2020, 19:48However, you could try disconnecting the cables at both ends and first dribbling WD or equivalent down and working the cable back and forth and then following up with light machine oil (like 3 in 1). I've rescued a couple like that. Mind you it's not as good as new cables..as old stiff ones are often a bit stretched.
I was going to suggest too. I'll add drop the cable ends down to the ground, you might get yuk coming out.
In the process of trying the oil. I'm not hopeful. T bar returns unevenly. If I give it a push the cable goes back. Have considered adding a couple of springs ant the handbrake end to force it back
If you're going to try to get oil down them disconnect the inside end & raise it vertically. I held mine up with cable ties. If you have an assistant work them from either end.
Appreciate this is a piece of string question.
But any ideas on how long it may take for the oil to make its way along. Appreciate the hand brake end needs disconnecting and raising, but fairly flat after that. I imagine talking hours rather mintues. Any ideas how much to squib in. 10, 20, 50ml
pfff.....no idea quantity-wise. It's more dependent on how blocked the cable is. It flows down the cable quite easily.
Dick Sloan found grit 15" up a cable.
Not good.
Quote from: Ardent on May 17, 2020, 22:30Appreciate this is a piece of string question.
But any ideas on how long it may take for the oil to make its way along. Appreciate the hand brake end needs disconnecting and raising, but fairly flat after that. I imagine talking hours rather mintues. Any ideas how much to squib in. 10, 20, 50ml
If you're lubing from the top, it's best to let the other end dangle down.
Might have a go with that.
Preventative as much as anything.
Quote from: Ardent on May 17, 2020, 22:30Appreciate this is a piece of string question.
But any ideas on how long it may take for the oil to make its way along. Appreciate the hand brake end needs disconnecting and raising, but fairly flat after that. I imagine talking hours rather mintues. Any ideas how much to squib in. 10, 20, 50ml
Assuming the cable is undamaged then it would be impossible to overfill. As
@Carolyn suggested the WD40 or similar would tend to clean the sleeve and cable, the subsequent lubricant would be partially retained. Raising the inner end with a" piece of string "tied to the hood frame and the other end into a catch pot of some
sort until it runs free would be my "method" for both treatments.
I would also give the cable a good in out jiggle to help it all along.
What I have tried is disconnecting the cable. Propping the inside end up. Create a funnel so I can reservoir oil that's sealed as best I can round the cable and get some head on the oil to aid flow. Going to leave this for a few days.
There are some neat cable Oiler's for motorcycle cables that allow the pressure from the aerosol to force the oil down the cable but I'm not sure they will fit the Mr2 cable Motion Pro V3
I didn't go to as much effort as that, I found the the oil 'cupped' at the cable top & ran down easily. But maybe if yours are difficult to move that won't work as easily.
Apart from saving hassle & money, it'll be satisfying if you can save them. Good luck.
Where we are today. With the cable disconnected at the handbrake end the spring will snap shut. Once the cable is attached to the handbrake the more tension applied the more sticky the cable becomes.
Disconnected both ends I can move the cable in & out easily
Did you get oil to pass down to the handbrake end?
Any sign of outer cable damage? I've seen one that was cut where the outer is mounted. A bit of reinforcement that stopped it bending sharply helped a lot.
Clevis pin moving freely in the lever?
If the oil got fully through it was difficult to tell. A lot went in.
Can't see any damage to the cable.
Toyota spares a £90 each😧
Probably get my local garage to do it. I can strip the car down ready. They can drop the tank and do the change.
Irritating that I can't use the car in the good weather now we are allowed out
Quote from: Newbie57 on May 20, 2020, 23:04Where we are today. With the cable disconnected at the handbrake end the spring will snap shut. Once the cable is attached to the handbrake the more tension applied the more sticky the cable becomes.
Disconnected both ends I can move the cable in & out easily
If the cable is moving and the spring at the handbrake end snaps shut have you checked the caliper itself? They do fail too. Worth checking that before replacing cables.
Oh and if you do need cables. Try TCB. Think they were half the price from Toyota.
Brand new callipers zero miles on them. The springs good. It will pull the cable as long as I don't connect the hand break end and put tension on the cable.
Curious.
Total straw clutching.
But
How many clicks on the hand brake?
Might the link cable need backing off a bit.
Quote from: Newbie57 on May 21, 2020, 17:07If the oil got fully through it was difficult to tell. A lot went in.
You should have got 'stuff' dirty water maybe & then the oil at the brakes end, - if you had the ends of the cables dropped down onto the ground. Did you do that?
Cables are on the ground nothing really came out and I put quite a lot in
Was there a change in the brake cables at facelifts?
It may not make an improvement, but I'd put more oil down, it should travel to the ends.
Did you do WD40 before you went for the oil? I did one that took a massive amount of working back and forth with WD before it really ran through the jacket.
Go for the oil only when it's as loose as a floppy thing.
Thanks, I wonder if plus gas might help?
Quote from: Newbie57 on May 22, 2020, 12:51Thanks, I wonder if plus gas might help?
Can't hurt.
Bitten the bullet and bought 2 new cables from TCB. I'll stop the car down but get my local garage to drop the tank.
Cables are colour coded. Looks like the yellow tag goes on the off side
if bought from tcb, then likely to be proper cables. Smart move.
As you have twigged they are handed.
Not all aftermarket ones are, which then create their own problems.
Yes real Toyota ones about 1/2 the price of the dealer. Next day delivery. Very good service
This is driving me nuts now.
New callipers new Toyota handbrake cables and I still have issues.
Is there anything I should have done when I changed the callipers. I made sure the V was in the right position. Bled the brakes then fitted the cables. Did the brake pedal dance.
Got my local garage to fit the new cables. There on the right side. They think the callipers are faulty. To much travel on the sprung loaded lever
Any suggestions
The nipple on the back of the pad sitting in the V?
Be hard not to. But.
There is a nipple on the back of the pad?
Do the pads have an interference fit Before the peddle dance?
The crank arm action on the pad is very small.
If the pads are not touching the disc to begin with. The travel will only just about bring the pad to the disc.
This is getting silly. Both calipers bad? I don't think so.
The pistons should pump out fine.
You need a better mechanic.
I fitted the callipers so no doubt there are better mechanics. :)
Drivers side is the main issue.
Local garage just fitted the cables. I've used him for 20 years on various cars. He, literally just round the corner. Never worked on an MR 2 before but attaching cables I trust him with.
Quote from: Newbie57 on June 8, 2020, 21:51I fitted the callipers so no doubt there are better mechanics. :)
Drivers side is the main issue.
Local garage just fitted the cables. I've used him for 20 years on various cars. He, literally just round the corner. Never worked on an MR 2 before but attaching cables I trust him with.
Oooops. My apologies. I thought your mechanic had done all the work.
I had all this last week mot failure on nearside hand brake not working and I had the use of a two post lift.
the cables were free ,pedal dance etc but took a new caliper to fix it can your mechanic round the corner get the car in the air then you see can see what is happening when you apply the handbrake. I wish you well with this.
Dave Greaves
So. I have per suppliers and others advise i wound the Pistons back in both callipers the out to just clear the pads. I assume this resets the mechanism. Initially I got a much better holding force but after a short period the right calliper appears to have completely lost adjustment so when you apply the hand brake the cable moves without resistance🤬
just to recap. Proper new calipers or refurbished.
Putting my head above the parapet to be shot down. But there is no "reset" as such. The closest thing would be a few pumps of the pedal to take up the slack.
As pads wear the auto adjust takes up the slack. Be surprised if you had worn the pads that quickly.
The auto adjust should take up the slack and keep the pads where they need to be. Next to the disc.
So something is sticking or plain not working correctly.
This is what the supplier said
Disconnect the handbrake cables, unbolt the calipers from the guide pins and firmly force the piston back to remove any play (put slight hand pressure on the caliper lever and you'll feel the play gradually disappear - stop at this point to avoid possible damage to the adjuster mechanism). Then wind the piston out so that the gap is just adequately wide enough to fit over the pads and disc. Refit the caliper and then press the brake pedal several times to let the auto adjuster remove any fine play still remaining. Finally reconnect the handbrake cable ensuring the caliper lever returns fully home when the handbrake lever is off.
Did this. It resolved the return issue on the right brake.
Callipers are new from Frentech
Cables new Toyota OEM
Now, when applying handbrake right cable moves first and furthest.
Adjuster has to be at max to get bite on LEFT calliper.
Right bite very solid
Opposite to what I would have expected
Pads and discs have 9k miles on the max. Pads on inspection have a lot of life in them
Adjuster has to be at max to get bite on LEFT calliper.
Right bite very solid
Can you elaborate on that.
Did you or mechanic happen to notice that the cables were different lengths.
Cables are handed. Right hand one has yellow tape round it . That's correct
If you look at the T piece as you apply the handbrake the right side moves first and furthest
Think that the RH calliper has too much travel so the left is not activating
Fully returned the t bar is level
just making sure 2 same cables had not inadvertently been sent/fitted.
So we can rule that out.
Still sounds like the pads are not close enough to disc to begin with and all the travel is taken up just moving the pads to the disc.
Despite the travel of the handbrake. The crank arm on the caliper has a very small range of motion.
If the pads do not have an interference fit to begin with. They are not going to hold.
Worth measuring the rear pad and disc thicknesses just in case there's an issue there?
Just to rule them out of course.
Quote from: Newbie57 on June 13, 2020, 11:51Cables are handed. Right hand one has yellow tape round it . That's correct
If you look at the T piece as you apply the handbrake the right side moves first and furthest
Think that the RH calliper has too much travel so the left is not activating
Fully returned the t bar is level
I had a very similar problem (albeit with third party cables) that were just blatantly not the right length for the car. It meant the left side locked well, but the right was barely engaging. Is there anything in the routing of your cables that could be causing a restriction of movement?
The replacements fitted to mine since have touch wood been 'ok' - the car holds firmly uphill on 8 clicks, it can be a little dicier downhill. Will probably do the 'dance' before the delayed MOT time.
This thread documents my experience with different cables (and that equaliser bar) if any help:
https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=65220.0
To Ardent's point, this YouTube video is great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g12uwGnKwlY
Vis a vis the hydraulic movement:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9jAqP0pqhM
I started to doubt I'd got the cables on the right way round. I disconnected everything put the handbrake off and with the t bar level compared the position of the cables at the callipers. Looks the same. Applied handbrake, checked position at calliper, again looks the same. The only thing I'd say is if you take the cable bracket off the callipers it's a struggle to put them back as the cable is stiff compared to what was on previously
If I move the lever on the callipers by hand the left seems to require more force than the right. Right travels about 20mm before it hits a stop. Left maybe a little less. This seems too much. Checked against the callipers I took off they seem to move less before impacting the piston.
Connected up the cables. Applied handbrake. Left calliper lever moves a short distance then stops. No apparent braking force. Can't move it further by hand.
The little silver bullet thing the crank arm acts on is in place?
Quote from: Ardent on June 13, 2020, 19:57The little silver bullet thing the crank arm acts on is in place?
Every thing is internal I can't see a silver thing
Sorry. My mistake.
I am running out of suggestions.
Do the pads have an interference fit to the discs? Apologies If I have missed the reply.
@Newbie57 Have sent a you PM
Had a new boiler fitted today. About the price of a reasonable MR2.
Whilst I had to be at home edit the brakes. Wind piston in to max, HB lever solid. Wind out to just clear pads Pump brakes refit cables. Did this a 3 times. No improvement.
Tried winding back but not winding out. No difference.
So I'm going to see Rhys in Droitwich on Sat.
Can only be a defective caliper.