Hi everyone,
So I thought it was the clutch but I've changed my mind.
When cruising around town, below 60 it's fine.
But, if I try and accelerate hard or get it up the revs it just isn't pulling like it should. It isn't revving out, it's not revving enough and the acceleration isn't there.
Any ideas?
Cheers in advance
Danny
Quote from: RubixRonnie on June 20, 2020, 12:12Hi everyone,
So I thought it was the clutch but I've changed my mind.
When cruising around town, below 60 it's fine.
But, if I try and accelerate hard or get it up the revs it just isn't pulling like it should. It isn't revving out, it's not revving enough and the acceleration isn't there.
Any ideas?
Cheers in advance
Danny
Has it got a fresh air filter?
It needs a new one but even with it out there's still a loss of power
The next usual suspect for this symptom is a poor earth on the crank shaft sensor. It's on the bottom of the timing cover towards the bulkhead.
Thanks I'll have a look.
There is some oil on the MAF sensor cable, it I've had the MAF off and it looks clean.
Also, I can't remember if these engines run hot and the temp in the car was ok but there was some real heat coming off the engine after a 30minute drive.
Quote from: RubixRonnie on June 20, 2020, 14:05Thanks I'll have a look.
There is some oil on the MAF sensor cable, it I've had the MAF off and it looks clean.
Also, I can't remember if these engines run hot and the temp in the car was ok but there was some real heat coming off the engine after a 30minute drive.
'looks clean' and 'is clean' can be two different things with MAFs. Take the O ring off (so you don't melt it) and spray thoroughly with carb cleaner.
These engine bays can get surprisingly hot.
Will do thanks so much! I'll give those a go and see what happens!
Just had the reader on it and these were the codes 81134855-8180-486E-9296-3BF8250C84BB.png
Possible poor connection somewhere
When get it out. Have a look up inside one of the channels should see 2 fine wires.
Are they intact?
Anyone in your area that could temp swap a maf over?
Cleaned the MAF and much improved but still not like what I know it can do.
Will check connection, I think it needs a service to be honest, the bloke before said he'd had it done and it's stamped but I'm not so sure.
Also. Air filter is filthy! Ordered a new one.
At least it ain't the clutch!
the IAT and the MAF are in the same unit. the errors are open circuit. they're probably from when you started the car with the MAF disconnected.
Quote from: Ardent on June 20, 2020, 16:41Possible poor connection somewhere
When get it out. Have a look up inside one of the channels should see 2 fine wires.
Are they intact?
Anyone in your area that could temp swap a maf over?
Thanks, but not sure which channels you mean?
If we call the bulb end the bottom and the elec connector end the top.
Turn upside down and look down either side of the main body sort of internally.
Dead easy to show. Not to explain.
Quote from: Carolyn on June 20, 2020, 14:18These engine bays can get surprisingly hot.
It is more that they can appéar to be surprisingly hot because at the end where one is standing with the lid open the muffler is stacked on top of the cat. The heat equivalent of stain on stain and the heat wave from that hits your face.
If anything the engine room is relatively cool but for that cramped exhaust lay out.
I had a problem with mine when I first got it:
Everything was fine under low power, cruising etc, but when I pressed the accelerator hard, I got a bit more noise, but a drop in power.
I looked all over the engine for problems, checked everything, replaced the MAF and filters etc.
In the end, it all came down to a blocked CAT (it was suggested to check it on here, but a couple of "specialists" told me it was fine, because some of the gas was getting through, just not enough).
Just another avenue to check...
Quote from: Petrus on June 20, 2020, 21:30Quote from: Carolyn on June 20, 2020, 14:18These engine bays can get surprisingly hot.
It is more that they can appéar to be surprisingly hot because at the end where one is standing with the lid open the muffler is stacked on top of the cat. The heat equivalent of stain on stain and the heat wave from that hits your face.
If anything the engine room is relatively cool but for that cramped exhaust lay out.
Still flippin hot in there! Regardless of whether it's cool for where it is. Those crossbars can't be comfortably grabbed when you've had a good run.
It's hot in there.
Quote from: Fin on June 20, 2020, 22:34I had a problem with mine when I first got it:
Everything was fine under low power, cruising etc, but when I pressed the accelerator hard, I got a bit more noise, but a drop in power.
I looked all over the engine for problems, checked everything, replaced the MAF and filters etc.
In the end, it all came down to a blocked CAT (it was suggested to check it on here, but a couple of "specialists" told me it was fine, because some of the gas was getting through, just not enough).
Just another avenue to check...
Thanks Fin, how would one go about checking if I my CAT was blocked?
Quote from: shnazzle on June 20, 2020, 22:42Still flippin hot in there! Regardless of whether it's cool for where it is. Those crossbars can't be comfortably grabbed when you've had a good run.
It's hot in there.
The point is avoiding confusion about it being hotter than front engined configurations.
The MR2 configuration operates coolere than traditional front engine and is only compromised at the rear which is what you feel when the hot air rising from the too compact exhaust hits you upon opening the lid.
With a more freely flowing exhaust,
not wrapped but with OEM shields!, even the black heat shield in the back does not get scolding hot on a spirited country drive here.
That observed, all ´modern´ (post eighties) engine installations get hot because of the sound containment wrapping by panels.
Our MR2 is at an advantage because the engine compartment is not pre-heated by hot air from the radiator ánd is vented immediately to the outside world at the rear.
Quote from: RubixRonnie on June 20, 2020, 23:53Quote from: Fin on June 20, 2020, 22:34I had a problem with mine when I first got it:
Everything was fine under low power, cruising etc, but when I pressed the accelerator hard, I got a bit more noise, but a drop in power.
I looked all over the engine for problems, checked everything, replaced the MAF and filters etc.
In the end, it all came down to a blocked CAT (it was suggested to check it on here, but a couple of "specialists" told me it was fine, because some of the gas was getting through, just not enough).
Just another avenue to check...
Thanks Fin, how would one go about checking if I my CAT was blocked?
That was my first thought when you posted about lack of power when accelerating. From what I've read on here, not so much in recent times, is that is symptomatic of a blocked CAT. I didn't like to mention it as the typical reason for a blocked CAT is breakdown of the precat's.
The simplest way to check if that is the problem would be to check their condition by removing the top two O2 sensors.
Thanks Joesson,
I'm calling a garage I know in Spennymoor tomorrow who will remove precats.
So I'll get them to check it.
Hope it isn't pre cats :(.
I'm fairly sure it isn't given after I cleaned the MAF sensor it was nearly up to full performance!
Booked in on 1st July to check pre-cats, fingers crossed! In the meantime I'll put the new air filter in when it arrives.
Taking it for a spin later so will see how I get on.
Once you have had that work done, you could try some redex in the fuel to clean the lines.
Then follow that up with some cataclean to clean the cat.
May not do anything but at least you know its been done.
I like to do a bottle of cataclean a few weeks before the MOT.
Thanks Topdownman, I'll make sure to do that if the engine isn't already toast and those pre-cats are in tact!
Took it out for a little run today, and the MAF cleaning hasn't changed anything, which is weird because as soon as I'd done it and took it out, the performance seemed much better. Such a shame, fearing precat issue. Not doing anything else now until it's been into S Cars for precat check/removal/cat clean!
not a happy read and feel your frustration/anguish.
The pre cats themselves do not fail. Something further up the food chain has caused them to fail. If that's the case. That doesn't make great reading either.
Quote from: Ardent on June 23, 2020, 22:07not a happy read and feel your frustration/anguish.
The pre cats themselves do not fail. Something further up the food chain has caused them to fail. If that's the case. That doesn't make great reading either.
Not necessarily true. I've had a lengthy discussion with Dick on this over a coffee and scone and he's definitely seen non-oil-burners with fractured pre-cats.
Slim possibility, and you're most likely right by a fair margin, but being positive;it's just the pre-cats.
Mind, if the car has been poorly serviced since you let it go, it could be that the main cat is blocked/damaged for other reasons. Running pig rich for an extended period of time doesn't do it any favours.
Appreciate the comments. All will be revealed next Wednesday. It's been serviced according to the book since I let it go, but, the air filter was an absolute mess, so I've got a fair feeling he paid for a stamp :(.
Quote from: RubixRonnie on June 23, 2020, 23:54the air filter was an absolute mess, so I've got a fair feeling he paid for a stamp :(.
Which goes a long way to explaining why we recommend a new owner/member do their own service as soon as.
So starting if it is a blocked cat, there are options. Cataclean, standard replacement cat. Not very expensive. No cat. But mot issues. Shiny super duper Zero exhaust cat. Bit more expensive.
You could unbolt the cat before it and see if that affects the revving.
I wonder if its worth checking the fuel pump filter (the only one in the system) as if thats blocked it may restrict high revs?
All amazing suggestions.
I'm just going to wait it out until next Wednesday but tell the garage all your suggestions. They've got some experience of 2's, so they'll be happy to check the things you guys and gals are suggesting :)
I've just had the phonecall from the garage. They have said that there was nothing in the bottom of the cat, great news. But they did say that the pre cats had started to go, but only a very tiny amount. Going to pick it up in an hour or so and will see how it drives back....if it gets back. But its not looking all bad......fingers crossed!
Verdict is in.............Pre cats are IN TACT!!!
WAHOO! Over the moon. Drove it back from the garage after letting her warm up properly and no issues with power delivery. Had it through the gears right to the red line and no issue with power delivery there.
Maybe I was just expecting too much from a 21 yr old motor.
3rd gear sitting around 3k revs, foot to the floor, not as much pickup as I remember.
Going to get some Cataclean through it and some Redex.
New oil filter and oil change to come too.
I just think she hasn't been looked after for a while, back in good hands now.
Great news for you. Yes, definite oil and filter change. These cars like new oil regularly, at least annually!
If you haven't already. Remember to clean the maf.
Quote from: Ardent on July 1, 2020, 17:17If you haven't already. Remember to clean the maf.
Yep was the very first thing I did! That definitely improved things, new air filter went in next which improved things a little more and now the precats are out it's given it more room to breathe....and me some peace of mind. I was fearing the worst.
Had it (really should name my car) out to the coast today, things still not right.
The pre cats are out so it's not that.
Ordered some Cataclean and Redex last night so it'll go in next week.
I'm thinking maybe a blocked fuel filter and/or defective fuel pump. For the sake of a DIY job and £40 or so it may be worth a shot.
Checked for loose connections, all seems ok.
What does everyone think?
How are your fuel trims?
Did you understand exactly where the maf sensor is? And did you check the crank sensor? Getting into the fuel tank for pump & filter can be a sod. You want to eliminate other things 1st.
Quote from: Ardent on July 5, 2020, 15:33How are your fuel trims?
Haven't checked em. Although I'm a previous owner I've still a lot to learn. The last time I had the car it just....worked lol!
Quote from: Gaz mr-s on July 5, 2020, 17:29Did you understand exactly where the maf sensor is? And did you check the crank sensor? Getting into the fuel tank for pump & filter can be a sod. You want to eliminate other things 1st.
Yes I've had it off and cleaned with carb cleaner (after removing the o ring of course)
Haven't checked the crank sensor, not sure how to do it.
I've been behind the rear bins in the last and it wasn't that difficult really.
Quote from: RubixRonnie on July 5, 2020, 18:00Did you understand exactly where the maf sensor is? And did you check the crank sensor? ]Yes I've had it off and cleaned with carb cleaner (after removing the o ring of course)
Haven't checked the crank sensor, not sure how to do it.
I've been behind the rear bins in the last and it wasn't that difficult really.
So you know that when you remove the maf sensor it is not the 'blob' at the bottom?
The crank sensor is near the front & bottom of the timing cover. You need the car up a height to be able to see it & get a spanner on the bolt. Look for a wire with a ring terminal (I think). It could be corroded. Or possibly loose.
I didn't know that no but I took the whole thing off and sprayed the whole unit with cleaner.
Maybe I haven't cleaned my MAF after all haha!
My brother in law has access to a ramp so I'll get it up on there one night next week.
Thanks for the advice
That's what Ardent was getting at in an earlier post. Look up into the plastic & look for 'wires'. That's the maf sensor.
Quote from: Gaz mr-s on July 5, 2020, 19:11That's what Ardent was getting at in an earlier post. Look up into the plastic & look for 'wires'. That's the maf sensor.
Ahh right ok will do cheers.
Took it out again tonight after putting some Redex in. Awful! Fuel & oil filters are on order as well as new gearbox and engine oils. I do have a feeling after all this it may be clutch after all. Put it into 3rd cruising at 40, foot down, Rev counter went up and stayed up for a second maybe but no extra power, tried the same thing in 4th at 40, same thing. Not fully gone but seems to be very much on the way out.
Quote from: RubixRonnie on July 7, 2020, 20:52Took it out again tonight after putting some Redex in. Awful! Fuel & oil filters are on order as well as new gearbox and engine oils. I do have a feeling after all this it may be clutch after all. Put it into 3rd cruising at 40, foot down, Rev counter went up and stayed up for a second maybe but no extra power, tried the same thing in 4th at 40, same thing. Not fully gone but seems to be very much on the way out.
Didn't want to say anything because usually it is the simple thing but my car was much the same. It felt much snappier after a new clutch.
It was an audible difference mostly. It's hard to explain. When you're pushing it through the gears and on the throttle there's more of a staccato note instead of a slur.
That was my clutch.
Quote from: shnazzle on July 7, 2020, 21:17Quote from: RubixRonnie on July 7, 2020, 20:52Took it out again tonight after putting some Redex in. Awful! Fuel & oil filters are on order as well as new gearbox and engine oils. I do have a feeling after all this it may be clutch after all. Put it into 3rd cruising at 40, foot down, Rev counter went up and stayed up for a second maybe but no extra power, tried the same thing in 4th at 40, same thing. Not fully gone but seems to be very much on the way out.
Didn't want to say anything because usually it is the simple thing but my car was much the same. It felt much snappier after a new clutch.
It was an audible difference mostly. It's hard to explain. When you're pushing it through the gears and on the throttle there's more of a staccato note instead of a slur.
That was my clutch.
Did you do it yourself or go to a garage? Got any recommendations. I'm not bad with a spanner but not sure I can be bothered with the chew, just want to enjoy the summer in it!
Quote from: RubixRonnie on July 7, 2020, 22:24Quote from: shnazzle on July 7, 2020, 21:17Quote from: RubixRonnie on July 7, 2020, 20:52Took it out again tonight after putting some Redex in. Awful! Fuel & oil filters are on order as well as new gearbox and engine oils. I do have a feeling after all this it may be clutch after all. Put it into 3rd cruising at 40, foot down, Rev counter went up and stayed up for a second maybe but no extra power, tried the same thing in 4th at 40, same thing. Not fully gone but seems to be very much on the way out.
Didn't want to say anything because usually it is the simple thing but my car was much the same. It felt much snappier after a new clutch.
It was an audible difference mostly. It's hard to explain. When you're pushing it through the gears and on the throttle there's more of a staccato note instead of a slur.
That was my clutch.
Did you do it yourself or go to a garage? Got any recommendations. I'm not bad with a spanner but not sure I can be bothered with the chew, just want to enjoy the summer in it!
Did it with
@mulaz. Was good fun. Diy doesn't save quite as much as you'd think for how much effort it is, tools you need and things like fluids, seals, lubricants, etc.
Lowest quote I've seen is 265 drive in/out. That's worth it in my opinion.
Owing to my going on holiday next week (Lakes). I've booked the 2 in for a new LUK clutch at my garage of choice. As well as new driveshaft seals and some MT90 into the gearbox for good measure. £350 all in seemed like a pretty good deal to me. Excited to get it back to what I know it can do!
Just wanted to update everyone who helped me on this, my lovely little 2 is fixed. It was a clutch issue, so had a LUK put in, new driveshaft seals, MT90 gearbox oil replacement, and I had the tracking done too for good measures as it was very skittish above 70, but no longer.
New clutch is like butter and the pickup I remember is back. £380 lighter in my back pocket but worth every penny and done the same day. The guys over at S-Cars are fantastic.
Thanks again to everyone who helped!
Danny
Quote from: RubixRonnie on July 29, 2020, 16:35Just wanted to update everyone who helped me on this, my lovely little 2 is fixed. It was a clutch issue, so had a LUK put in, new driveshaft seals, MT90 gearbox oil replacement, and I had the tracking done too for good measures as it was very skittish above 70, but no longer.
New clutch is like butter and the pickup I remember is back. £380 lighter in my back pocket but worth every penny and done the same day. The guys over at S-Cars are fantastic.
Thanks again to everyone who helped!
Danny
380 including all those new bits and fluid, and an alignment, is good going