https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YusNROfjFTQ&t=424s
Finally a build series showing how to put a 2GR in where you don't have to cut the rear subframe!
We'd still have to ship the gearbox over from the US as I don't think we don't get the EB60 over here.. but that's not that bad in the grande scheme of things.
Quote from: jvanzyl on August 3, 2020, 09:44https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YusNROfjFTQ&t=424s
Finally a build series showing how to put a 2GR in where you don't have to cut the rear subframe!
We'd still have to ship the gearbox over from the US as I don't think we don't get the EB60 over here.. but that's not that bad in the grande scheme of things.
I cant see an easy and cheap way to source 2GR either so it has to be shipped from US too. The prices for 2GR I have found are in the 3500 mark.
Quote from: Nvy on August 3, 2020, 09:48Quote from: jvanzyl on August 3, 2020, 09:44https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YusNROfjFTQ&t=424s
Finally a build series showing how to put a 2GR in where you don't have to cut the rear subframe!
We'd still have to ship the gearbox over from the US as I don't think we don't get the EB60 over here.. but that's not that bad in the grande scheme of things.
I cant see an easy and cheap way to source 2GR either so it has to be shipped from US too. The prices for 2GR I have found are in the 3500 mark.
You don't get the old lexus 350's over there?
Eb or EA transmission is going to be the way I go in the future.
Quote from: jvanzyl on August 3, 2020, 09:55Quote from: Nvy on August 3, 2020, 09:48Quote from: jvanzyl on August 3, 2020, 09:44https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YusNROfjFTQ&t=424s
Finally a build series showing how to put a 2GR in where you don't have to cut the rear subframe!
We'd still have to ship the gearbox over from the US as I don't think we don't get the EB60 over here.. but that's not that bad in the grande scheme of things.
I cant see an easy and cheap way to source 2GR either so it has to be shipped from US too. The prices for 2GR I have found are in the 3500 mark.
You don't get the old lexus 350's over there?
We do but engines can be hardly found. Also its close to impossible to register such car here, ill have to do the swap, sell it to some1 in another country and then import it back. Id rly love a V6 tho :D
Quote from: Gaz2405 on August 3, 2020, 10:01Eb or EA transmission is going to be the way I go in the future.
Yeah unfortunately you gotta import them from the US. I couldn't find them here.
But if you look at how he's done the rest of his engine swaps, a lot of the kit will be purchaseable from him, and it's looking like you won't need to get a custom ecu and tune which will save £1000's..
Toyota Auris uses the EA61... 6 speed, or an Evora. 😂
Quote from: Gaz2405 on August 3, 2020, 10:58Toyota Auris uses the EA61... 6 speed, or an Evora. 😂
I have no idea if an EA gearbox would work.. I've emailed the guy so much trying to get an AR swap details sorted for doing it over here and he's been super patient with me. I'll leave if for a bit till the series progresses..
EA gearbox fits the 2gr, it's what comes on the Evora as standard.
Quote from: Gaz2405 on August 3, 2020, 11:20EA gearbox fits the 2gr, it's what comes on the Evora as standard.
Gotcha - it's the size and room that it occupies which is the clinch... not having to notch the subframe is a big deal.
Found the EB transmission we'd need in the US:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2005-2010-SCION-TC-2-4L-STANDARD-TRANSMISSION-MANUAL-SHIFT-TESTED/392894405672?fits=Model%3AtC%7CMake%3AScion&hash=item5b7a54dc28:g:jGgAAOSwi15fJh76
so then it comes down to shipping etc..
Actually, the cost and effort of notching the subframe is very minor compared to the rest of the project.
Quote from: Carolyn on August 3, 2020, 11:42Actually, the cost and effort of notching the subframe is very minor compared to the rest of the project.
True, but it's one less thing to have to do/pay for :-)
No idea what the balance of the cost would be for sourcing one of the MR2 Turbo (e153?) gearboxes and notching the subframe vs ordering the e60 gearbox from the US..
Isn't the EB gearbox found in the Avensis and the Camry?
Quote from: J88TEO on August 3, 2020, 15:54Isn't the EB gearbox found in the Avensis and the Camry?
Yes - in the manual versions I believe.. of which I've never found one :-/
What I'm puzzled by is that on the 1mz and 2gr conversions so far, the top cross bar has to be moved backwards. How come that is no longer necessary?
That makes the notching of the subframe seem like a piece of piddle
Quote from: shnazzle on August 3, 2020, 16:45What I'm puzzled by is that on the 1mz and 2gr conversions so far, the top cross bar has to be moved backwards. How come that is no longer necessary?
That makes the notching of the subframe seem like a piece of piddle
Yeah no idea about that part... guess we'll have to wait and see what happens in the vidjeos.
Quote from: shnazzle on August 3, 2020, 16:45What I'm puzzled by is that on the 1mz and 2gr conversions so far, the top cross bar has to be moved backwards. How come that is no longer necessary?
That makes the notching of the subframe seem like a piece of piddle
Not all have been moved back, there's a few that haven't had it touched, but does look close though!
Hi everyone, I'm the creator of that video and noticed a bit of traffic coming from here.
I'm happy to answer any questions but i wanted to answer a few that i see already.
Notching the crossmember is not a huge deal when you have to cut the firewall anyways but the basis for this swap is actually the 2AR-FE kit that i make and that one does not require any cutting at all so positioning the transmission to not require notching the crossmember there means it's way more in reach for people doing their first engine swap and may not know how to weld or know anyone that can.
On the V6 you'll always have to make a top access panel, otherwise there's no way to service the front coils and plugs.
The disadvantage of where the transmission is located for the 2AR-FE swap is that the front alternator access panel becomes not quite needed but strongly recommended. You can actually just use the 4GR alternator to move the plug and gently add 10mm clearance around the alternator. the sheetmetal there is so thin that a few light hits with a plastic hammer will add the necessary clearance without damaging the paint. Personally i will be putting in an access panel anyways because i want to be able to service the alternator if something ever happens to it.
The thickness of that alternator panel will be less than the thickness of the padding on the carped there so it won't be visible at all under normal conditions. I won't be quite as lucky on the top panel, the padding there is only a few millimetres thick but that'll mostly be covered by the parcel shelf anyways so the interior should look factory.
I don't need to leave a ton of clearance for engine movement, the 2AR-FE swap is also tight up there so the front motor mount is quite stiff to make up for this. I might have to fill the rear motor mount to limit movement further but we'll see when I get there.
The rear bar where the engine lid attaches to will not need to be touched because the engine is mounted far enough forward. I don't have a picture with an intake on it but this should give you an idea of clearance:
(https://frankensteinmotorworks.com/MKIII/2GRSwap/fitment%20pics/IMG_2001.jpg)
Hopefully this answers some questions but i'm happy to answer more and thank you for watching the video!
Welcome Marc! :-)
Thank you for answering all of those questions - it is much appreciated.
Glad to hear that the top structures don't need shifting...
So an angle grinder and some tec screws and we're good for the access panels yeah? ;-)
I'm going to try to be a bit fancier than tek screws but all you need to do is seal off the area. If you did it with Tek screws it would still not be anywhere near as bad as some of the stuff i've seen in the past and none of the areas being touched are structural anyways so it would not be an issue in respect to strength.
Overall it should still be a relatively easy swap and should be doable in the $6-7k range. Way less if you spend time hunting for deals of course.
Quote from: Marc on August 5, 2020, 17:54I'm going to try to be a bit fancier than tek screws but all you need to do is seal off the area. If you did it with Tek screws it would still not be anywhere near as bad as some of the stuff i've seen in the past and none of the areas being touched are structural anyways so it would not be an issue in respect to strength.
Overall it should still be a relatively easy swap and should be doable in the $6-7k range. Way less if you spend time hunting for deals of course.
Of that $6-7K range - how much of that is that actual engine and gearbox/ and is the exhaust manifold etc in that budget? ( He says reaching for excel and plotting power vs £.. )
Let's see, i hadn't actually put a shopping list together, let's take a stab at it:
2gr-fe motor with alternator $800 (this can vary quite a bit but that's a fair estimate)
EB60 $1200 (right now they are a bit more because of COVID builds, there's about 2 years of MR2 builds that have started in the last three months, figure $1800 if you're in a hurry and don't look for a deal right now)
Flywheel $350
Clutch $400
Calry DBW pedal $25
So that's $2775-3375 in the donor parts
Then, the mechanical bits i make:
EB60 Trans mounts: $395
EB60 Shift linkage kit: $442 (there's a bunch of tiny custom parts in this, if you're able to fabricate you can likely save some money here but we're assuming that people want the easy way so this is staying in the total)
DBW pedal adapter $66
2GR right side motor mount $200 (this one isn't actually for sale yet but that's my target price and it will be made available by the end of this series)
Axles $260 (made by assembling 3 rav4 axles together, there's a video on this)
custom clutch hose $25
So at this point it's done mechanically, the engine is hanging in there and the transmission is hooked up to the wheels, the clutch pedal and the shifter and you're at $4163-$4763
So let's get an exhaust on there,
stock manifolds $200 (you can get a better deal if you find some that have damaged cats since you're just looking for the collector)
y-pipe supplies $200
Muffler bits $250 (could be $0 if you reuse the stock exhaust, it'll cost a bit of power though, it's a reasonable exhaust but this is way more power than stock)
labor: $0 because we're assuming you're doing it yourself
bringing us to $4163-5013
great, one step closer, now we need electrical so you're going to go back to my store:
Body controller $190 (this makes the gauges and the A/C work, it handles all the BEAN MPX communications and becomes a junction box to make it so you don't need to modify any of the stock vehicle wiring other than the engine harness)
2AR-FE wiring kit $150 (this only needs slight repinning for use with a 2GR, i'll document them but if there's enough demand i may even make them available that way also)
ECU $460 (this pricing assumes you don't turn a core in and you're using a 3rd gen sienna ECU which isn't on the store yet but will be very soon. Rav4 which is available today is $550)
MAF pipe $170
6" filer $55
Intake elbow/PCV connection $75 (this is a DIY affair but the videos will show how)
You'll also need to hook up about 15 wires or so yourself, these will be well documented and you can check out the 2AR-FE wiring video to get an idea of the work involved, it's pretty simple)
Add $70 for quality fuel line bits and now you have a motor that runs and your total is $5333-$6183
the motor runs but you still needs odds and ends:
Serpentine belt: $25
A/C bracket (optional): $150 (this is a rough target price if this part becomes available from me, i need to get further along before i give more details on this)
ECU Brackets: $45 (i make a set of brackets for the 2AR ecu that can be used but will need a bit of tweaking
MAF pipe bracket: $20 (another DIY affair, the 2AR-FE one likely won't be usable here)
Cooling hoses: $200 (this seems generous but it adds up quickly by the time everything is hooked up)
Battery relocation: $40 (DIY)
supplies to close off access panels: $200 (diy)
Dipstick modification supplies: $30 (DIY)
Vacuum hoses: $50
Coolant: $40
At this point you have a finished car and you've spent $5983-$6983
There's probably a thing or two missing from this list like assorted hardware that you may be missing but this list should get you from zero to a finished swap.
TLDR; yes that includes absolutely everything as long as you started with a running car.
Marc this excellent - it gives such a great insight as to what is part of the swap and a very good indication of costs... you could totally budget for this build over time and get it done. What an awesome project this would be!
If you're concerned about budget and you want to do this as cheap as possible i would start by keeping my eye out for a cheap transmission. The one in the video was picked up for $200 and i'm going to put about $160 in it to bring it back up to where it should be. and frankly the only thing in that $160 that you would not do is the $55 shift lever because yours is unlikely to be ridiculously rusty. The rest is new seals and whatnot, stuff you would want for your build anyways.
But please, for the sake of everyone don't hoard one of these transmissions and then don't get the build done. As soon as i start talking about stuff like this the price goes up because the short supply gets exhausted and then people can't do the swap which means they don't buy my parts and make my efforts a bit pointless.
My total investment in this build will be about $2500 including from the price of the car to the coolant that goes in at the end but i know what kind of parts i use for my builds so i buy them opportunistically. The last part i was missing was that transmission so when i found it i started planning for the project.
Welcome to MR2ROC.
Not having to cut the crossmember is a pretty big deal if you ask me. Great work.
Interesting!!!!
With about 300 horses behind this would smoke quite a few BMW, Audi and Golf drivers :-)
Quote from: J88TEO on August 5, 2020, 23:14Interesting!!!!
With about 300 horses behind this would smoke quite a few BMW, Audi and Golf drivers :-)
Yes, I 100% agree with this. If i'm honest i'm doing this swap to bring publicity to my 2AR-FE swap parts. That motor weighs less, fits better, costs less and is way easier to swap and gives 205whp which is a great power for a car that weighs less than one ton. In fact that's what i run in my race car and it's an absolute riot to drive and pulls away from just about everything i run into on the track.
But I've had the kit available for a few years now and i'm just absolutely struggling to get the word out about it. The problem is many people want a reasonable and reliable car but a reasonable and reliable car does not really drive an exciting discussion in the crowd so very few people have even heard about it as a result.
The people that do find out about my parts often just end up asking me about the 2GR instead. In fact, of the 5 kits I've sold so far, two of them were purchased with the intend of using them for a 2GR instead of a 2AR and one i never talked to the guy so maybe even three of them were purchased with that intent.
So once i got the pictures back from the one guy showing just how lucky i got with the fitment and it really was luck because that trans position was never designed for the 2GR instalation. I knew the trans would bolt to it but that did not matter.
Add a bit more thought to that and realize that any V6 installation absolutely requires cutting the access panel anyways, the fact that my kit requires that access panel really isn't a detriment to it's marketability so i figured i'd go ahead and use my new found tiny bit of an audience on youtube and make a v6 spyder build, i'm only going to have about $2500 wrapped up in it anyways to drive a bunch of excitement about my parts and if i make a right side engine mount at a minimum the rest of the install suddenly becomes doable for people with a lot less fabrication skill than before.
What i did not account for was just how much publicity it would drive, i only put out the first video so far and it's about tripled the traffic to my channel. Essentially giving me the crowd excitement that is needed to actually result in people knowing about both the 2GR as well as the 2AR option i make available for this car.
So i'm excited, I'll get that motor mount done and see what that does for sales, i can certainly bring more and more support for the swap if the people are actually buying parts.
Which brings us back to your point, 340hp in an MR2 Spyder is about 6.75lbs/hp. That isn't the fastest car on the road but it isn't far. It's more or less the same power to weight as a Charger Hellcat (not the demon version, the *plain* 707hp version). With the stock suspension and brakes on this thing it genuinely is a bit sketchy
But "too much" is just enough in this crowd so here I am :)
And after all, I've been supporting the 2GR for 12 years now in the MKII. I'm at the point where someone can give my symptoms and i can tell them exactly which wire they have a short/open in. May as well leverage that knowledge for the MKIII Spyder also.
I might have to add a "Double Applause" button for that post.
Welcome
@Marc and I hope the news spreads hard and fast and we can rid of these pesky 2zz conversions ;) hahahs
I'm aiming more at the K conversions :) and it's not so much that i'm against Honda, it's just that i see people constantly having quality issues with the parts and i hate seeing car builds end in a car that get scrapped.
I want everyone that wants to do an engine swap to be able to do a successful engine swap and have it only take a few weeks or months at most, not years.
The 2ZZ swap was great when the motors were cheap, these days they are pricey and they usually need gone through. I don't think that swap will need any help for people to move past it.
I need to add the 2GR to this graph but here's something i composited together from three dyno graphs of roughly equivalent engine configurations (intake, exhaust and tune, no internals)
(https://frankensteinmotorworks.com/MKIII/2ARSwap/Dyno/2arfe%20vs%202zzge%20vs%201zzfe.jpg)
Plus i think i'll be able to do something about that roll off at the top soon enough :)
Sorry, i was being lazy, here's a quick compositing of the dynos, adding the 2GR
(https://frankensteinmotorworks.com/MKIII/2ARSwap/Dyno/2GRv2ARv1ZZv2ZZ.jpg)
Don't think anyone could ascribe the characteric "lazy" to you Marc.
But yeah I want the green line one sir..
In all our emails Marc, I don't think I ever asked or maybe I did but failed to understand your answer to the question about what would happen if you took the engine out of one of the many many hybrids and installed it with your kit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_AR_engine (ecu, imported the gearbox etc).. I read about how they have different combustion cycles etc and assumed that unless it was a stock 2AR-FE it wouldn't behave properly with your ECU, am I completely wrong? There's loads of the FSE/FXE versions about.. it's that pesky gearbox that is the hard thing to find.
The EB60 gearbox was fitted to the Avensis from 2009-2012 (Petrol verson). There is one on ebay at the mo.
Just a quick thank you Marc for providing quite a lot of information in so few posts. I haven't seen anyone sum it all up like that before. Really giving me bad ideas now.
Serious amount to think about.
Take the plunge!
I am about to put together my finances.....baby or no baby!
Quote from: J88TEO on August 6, 2020, 09:01The EB60 gearbox was fitted to the Avensis from 2009-2012 (Petrol verson). There is one on ebay at the mo.
really?? I need to look into that, there's tons of Avensis' out there.. that would massively help things along.
EDIT: So using the below link:
https://www.proxyparts.com/wiki/gearbox-codes/make/toyota/model/avensis/
it doesn't list the EB60 as a gearbox ever used by the avensis? :(
EDIT NUMBER 2: hold the phone.. further googling going via wiki:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_E_transmission#EB60
shows that it was on the 3ZR-FAE avensis engine... so.. there might be hope yet.
@J88TEO yeah you're totally right - it did come on the Avensis then. I just struggle with the £2k price tag currently sat on them! It's likely a case of watching co-part and european car sites till one in a reasonable price range comes up.
Quote from: jvanzyl on August 6, 2020, 08:48{...}I want the green line one sir..
Absolutely, a car is a very personal thing and many people want excessive power and it's why i'm doing this video series in the first place. Just please be responsible with the power and don't off yourself.
Quote from: jvanzyl on August 6, 2020, 08:48In all our emails Marc, I don't think I ever asked or maybe I did but failed to understand your answer to the question about what would happen if you took the engine out of one of the many many hybrids and installed it with your kit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_AR_engine (ecu, imported the gearbox etc).. I read about how they have different combustion cycles etc and assumed that unless it was a stock 2AR-FE it wouldn't behave properly with your ECU, am I completely wrong? There's loads of the FSE/FXE versions about.. it's that pesky gearbox that is the hard thing to find.
I want to preface this by saying i've never actually touched the FSE and FXE engines but here's what i know...
Somehow the FXE looks like it'll actually bolt in with my mount. This is kinda rare for Toyota so this is a pretty awesome thing.
Next, these engines are both different enough that you'd be on your own for the ECU, i'm fairly certain that my 2AR-FE ECU would not handle it.
then, if we look at the front of the FXE we see it looks like it enhances part throttle efficiency with a cooled EGR system:
(https://frankensteinmotorworks.com/MKIII/2ARSwap/fse-fxe/fxe%20front%20view.jpg)
It does this by adding that heat exchanger as well as having a different water pump. Best i can tell the normal water pump would bolt to there so you could toss the EGR cooler and regain the space needed to fit the exhaust in the tight engine bay space. It's probable that you could still fit an exhaust in there but likely not the one i make available for a straight bolt-on.
(https://frankensteinmotorworks.com/MKIII/2ARSwap/EnginePosition/IMG_2931.JPG)
next, around the other side of the FXE engine you can see that it has fixed length runners. I've never dyno'd these but based on their length that looks slightly shorter than the long path on the -FE but much longer than the short path on the -FE it would likely have a peak torque slightly later but then flatten much out earlier. this intake would probably make the motor feel "hollow" at the top. But with that said, it's possible it actually helps power, now that i just noticed this exists i will see what i can do about dyno testing with that intake at some point.
The -FSE engine is just a non starter, the engine might as well be a completely different engine, it's a longitudinal mounted engine with a completely different outside shape.
(https://frankensteinmotorworks.com/MKIII/2ARSwap/fse-fxe/fse%20front%20diagonal%20view.png)
or is there a transverse mount version of the -FSE engine? i'm having a hard time pulling up much on that engine.
Quote from: Jay on August 6, 2020, 09:08{...}Really giving me bad ideas now.
Serious amount to think about.
I strongly suggest you look at the 2AR video series and read the post about the 2GR here: https://www.mr2-spyder.com/community/engine-swaps/2gr-fe-swap-using-frankenstein-motorworks-2ar-fe-swap-kit-parts/
If you're still not sure, wait for the video series on the 2GR to be far enough along for you to know what you're getting into first.
The 2GR swap will require a bit of DIY fabrication, there's no way around it and last thing i want is someone to start a project that they cannot finish. An MR2 that is roadworthy with a 1zz is a million times better than a MR2 with a half finished 2GR swap.
Quote from: J88TEO on August 6, 2020, 09:27Take the plunge!
I am about to put together my finances.....baby or no baby!
I finished this build just a little less than 9 years ago and my oldest is just a little older than 9yrs old: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe5A4kt04Dc some people can get stuff done with a new baby, some can't. It's all up to the baby really.
Quote from: jvanzyl on August 6, 2020, 10:08Quote from: J88TEO on August 6, 2020, 09:01The EB60 gearbox was fitted to the Avensis from 2009-2012 (Petrol verson). There is one on ebay at the mo.
really?? I need to look into that{...} hold the phone.. {...} {Wikipedia} shows that it was on the 3ZR-FAE avensis engine... so.. there might be hope yet.
So i've got a customer in Australia right now that unfortunately did this discovery the hard way. the 3ZR-FAE version uses a different bellhousing bolt pattern. The bellhousing is interchangable though so you can replace it with part number 31105-33041 and make it work. Just make sure you budget the $750 that the replacement bellhousing will cost. As long as i can ship it in a regular package i'm happy to help my international customers by supplying things like that along with their order. A whole transmission unfortunately needs to go freight.
So i've got a customer in Australia right now that unfortunately did this discovery the hard way. the 3ZR-FAE version uses a different bellhousing bolt pattern
So from which engine/gearbox combo are you using the EB60?
Quote from: J88TEO on August 6, 2020, 13:33So i've got a customer in Australia right now that unfortunately did this discovery the hard way. the 3ZR-FAE version uses a different bellhousing bolt pattern
So from which engine/gearbox combo are you using the EB60?
Scion Tc I think.. so we're back to the original thing of importing from the US. Good old full circle :)
@Marc thank you SO much for explaining in such detail the differences between the FXE & the FSE.. that's a massive help.
So to date, it looks like over here we'd theoretically have the 2AR-FXE and the 8AR-FTS as being "compatible" but both would likely (at this point in time) require custom ECU.. and both of which would require the EB60 gearbox to be sourced from wherever possible. Good to know!
Scion Tc I think.. so we're back to the original thing of importing from the US. Good old full circle :)
[/quote]
Back to square 1! :-(
Quote from: J88TEO on August 6, 2020, 14:33Scion Tc I think.. so we're back to the original thing of importing from the US. Good old full circle :)
Back to square 1! :-(
[/quote]
True in this respect, BUT we've got 3 new engine conversions that we understand a bit more about so that's a real positive :)
fabulous reading here thanks.
I have a 2zz sprint car.. I really want to make it a 2gr one day!
I really want to make it a 2gr one day!
That's the plan .... I bought a CAT D Sabre Grey 2005 for peanuts a few months ago.....and has been thinking of swapping the engine.... :)
Quote from: J88TEO on August 6, 2020, 13:33So from which engine/gearbox combo are you using the EB60?
I'm using the EB60 from the 2011+ Scion tC. I've also used the very rare EB62 from the 2010-2011 Camry but you need to swap in the EB60 shift levers to use it.
Quote from: jvanzyl on August 6, 2020, 13:51So to date, it looks like over here we'd theoretically have the 2AR-FXE and the 8AR-FTS as being "compatible" but both would likely (at this point in time) require custom ECU.. and both of which would require the EB60 gearbox to be sourced from wherever possible. Good to know!
The 8AR-FTS is one i'd like to explore. The right side motor mount would be different there but i think there's a good chance the turbo will fit in the engine bay without modifications. Mainly i'm waiting for them to get cheap enough before exploring it.
So there's an awful lot of comments about importing transmissions. Based on the Events List sub forum it looks like this may be a UK centric forum? is that where a lot of people here are from?
Yup pretty much well most of us bar 5? are in the UK.
Hence as you say much talk of importing etc :)
I've found that the camrys over in Dubai/ Bahrain (copart) will supply us with the 2ar plus EB60 but, importing etc is another hurdle to figure out.
Ok, i guess that explains it then. I'm happy to ship over missing parts and whatnot with a parts order if you guys find an engine & trans. So feel free to ask. Unfortunately without a freight account it gets impossibly expensive and you can't get an account without volume so i can't help you guys out on the initial acquisition.
The flip side is you guys have a plentiful supply of cheap EA60 transmissions. That thing is bulletproof but unfortunately it's heavy and large and unavailable at any reasonable price to anywhere else in the world so it's a tough ask to make a kit with it at it's base. The EA60 is a better choice for the MKII than the MKIII because of it's size.
If i search for the EA60 bellhousing in the global parts catalog it returns these cars:
08/2010-06/2016 TOYOTA ZELAS
10/2011-09/2017 TOYOTA AURION, CAMRY, HV
12/2012-11/2018 TOYOTA RAV4
But i don't have a good way to see if those are local to you guys. someone else will have to answer that.
If i look for the differential case, a part that isn't nearly as likely to change from application to application it does show some Europe matches as opposed to just "worldwide" but unfortunately they are the 3ZR-FAE applications mentioned earlier. the Avensis and the Rav4.
The Avensis even has the 4.058 final drive instead of the 4.6 from the rav4 which is a bit short for daily driving on MR2 sized tires.
Depending on the price of that trans it might still be a very valid way to go. If you can get it for under $450 you could still buy the new $750 bellhousing and end up at the same price we have to pay for the Scion tC trans here in the USA.
Also, someone should call a local dealer and see if you can order 31105-33041. that's the bellhousing, since it's a "general" category part you can likely order it from anywhere in the world. It should not be tied to a region. Your local price may even be better.
Then you just need to chase down a cheap RX350 for the 2GR-FE or take a look at the ES250 or ES300H you have locally, in some locales it has the 2AR-FE, not the FXE.
@Marc So when looking for car with the EA60 there seems to be a bit of a divergence of information.
You end up old wiki and it tells you that there are two variants of the EA60 transmission - both for the Evora and they come in a sport and normal flavour:
Capture.JPG
However using a site like Proxy parts and searching via the gearbox code of EA60, you end up with the following:
https://www.proxyparts.com/car-parts-stock/result/gearbox-code/ea60/part/gearbox/
whereupon you end up with an "EA60" gearbox for a Toyota auris 2.2L Diesel.. surely this would have decent ratios for the MR2? You're basically looking for gearboxes attached to the 2AD-FHV engine which has some serious torque (180 bhp & 295lb torque)
Here's a good pic of one for sale on ebay when searching for the Auris 2.2D manual diesel gearbox
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-TOYOTA-AURIS-2-2-D-CAT-DIESEL-6-SPEED-MANUAL-GEARBOX-GEAR-BOX-43K-MILES/303108054211?hash=item4692a5dcc3:g:9QoAAOSwpXZcmhWA
Does that bell housing work? it's be awesome if it did.. that's like £300!
Apologies if this is the wrong way to go about this..
Had a look at the Toyodiy catalogue and it would "appear" that even this one cites the 2AD-FHV engine which came in the lexus, avensis and the auris as having the EA60 gearbox...
https://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_E_2005_TOYOTA_AVENSIS_ADT251R-AEFEYW_3302.html
but as before, it'll come down to matching the bell housing..
When I search for that part number you gave earlier it doesn't list a european model... it appears to only be found in the US models as per the below:
https://www.toyodiy.com/parts/xref?v=E_2005_TOYOTA_AVENSIS_ADT251R-AEFEYW_3302&s=31105-33041&mU=on&mE=on
Yes, the EA60 is the Evora transmission and it's also what goes in your Avensis diesel. it's the exact same transmission...
But there's a rub. There always is. Let me dig through my back catalog of automotive debauchery and here we are:
(https://frankensteinmotorworks.com/EA6x/IMG_0583.JPG)
(https://frankensteinmotorworks.com/EA6x/IMG_0578.JPG)
The starter on the EA60 is not actually compatible with the 2GR-FE and the 2AR-FE. lotus machines the transmission case to put a hole there and then they add a 1" thick spacer between the trans and engine with an adapter to bolt on a starter in the newly created hole.
the bolt pattern does match, they aren't using an adapter, just a spacer. and that spacer makes the drivetrain too wide for the MKII, not sure about the MKIII but i can't imagine it would fit any better in there so you have to weld a new starter boss on the EA60 to use it.
take a look at one one of the early evora promo pictures:
(https://cartype.com/pics/7021/full/lotus_evora_eng.jpg)
That hole makes the transmission price go from $200 to $3000 :)
Good grief.
Soooo is this another full circle then back to importing a gearbox from another country??
I'd really look into the price of that avensis 3zr gearbox as mentioned in post #46. importing a bellhousing only is way easier than a whole gearbox and if the 3ZR eb60 is cheap locally this could end up also being the cheapest option.
and keep in mind that the gearbox needs to be opened up for this swap anyways so changing the bellhousing at the same time would be a trivial amount of extra work.
Honestly it's too bad there's no big displacement option in the ZR family, that would solve a bunch of problems for you guys.
Ok so getting the bell housing from the US delivered is about £860 plus there will an import duty.
I'll totally give the local Toyota dealership a call in the morning and ask how much they can get it for..
There weren't many avensis/rav4 2L petrol engines sold over here, at the time of sales the government made it very clear that diesel was the way forward so you'd very rarely have someone opting to buy petrol over diesel. So they're basically none existent really- which makes getting the bell housing a bit of a none starter.. ?
Amayama showing the 31105-33041 housing as 'permanently out of stock' ie discontinued most likely.
Seen that too many times with stuff for my EP82, usually means that no more will be made. If you can find them in stock anywhere buy asap. A Toyota dealer should be able to confirm if they can order.
Yeah Steven Eagell toyota dealerships want £835+vat for the bellhousing... to source an EB60 gearbox they want £3000 odd plus vat.
on the plus side however!
Dubai is where it's at! I've got quotes of £600 to ship roughlt 2cubic metres/pallet of stuff from Dubai. So in theory if you could get someone to pallet the engine & gearbox that's not too bad.. it's £1400 for a whole car (shared with 2 others in a container). So if you got a camry with the 2AR-FE engine with eB60 gearbox that's you sorted.. don't think the 2GR version of the camry came with a manual, so you'd still need to get the gearbox if you did that.
Anyone think of an easier/cheaper shipping route than Dubai?
Quote from: Jay on August 7, 2020, 09:15Amayama showing the 31105-33041 housing as 'permanently out of stock' ie discontinued most likely.
Seen that too many times with stuff for my EP82, usually means that no more will be made.
It's possible that the status on the part changed in the last few weeks but i just sent one to Australia brand new from the dealer so it seems unlikely.
Quote from: jvanzyl on August 7, 2020, 10:41Yeah Steven Eagell toyota dealerships want £835+vat for the bellhousing... to source an EB60 gearbox they want £3000 odd plus vat.
So that's a bit more than i was hoping for but if you can get the 3ZR EB60 for a good price that still puts you in the range of what we get the gearboxes for here in the USA.
Quote from: jvanzyl on August 7, 2020, 10:41on the plus side however!
Dubai is where it's at! I've got quotes of £600 to ship roughlt 2cubic metres/pallet of stuff from Dubai. So in theory if you could get someone to pallet the engine & gearbox that's not too bad.. it's £1400 for a whole car (shared with 2 others in a container). So if you got a camry with the 2AR-FE engine with eB60 gearbox that's you sorted.. don't think the 2GR version of the camry came with a manual, so you'd still need to get the gearbox if you did that.
That sounds like a potentially better plan than getting them from the USA. And you're right, the 2GR-FE never came with a manual, Camry or otherwise. The only stock manual 2gr-fe application is the Lotus Evora but we already discussed why that's not really viable earlier.
True Marc, just thinking, the parts supply is split up into different markets. ie Japan stock is separate from UK is separate from US and so on.
If that bell housing wasn't actually used or is discontinued in the two markets that Amayama.com source from (Japan and United Emirates) then it could explain the message. It's reassuring you have been able to source them, firsthand experience is priceless.
For me personally the engine is the easy bit - I've a heavily dented RX350 sitting here that I used for 18 months and trust. The gearbox and wiring are the shadowy bits that I'm unsure of. You are shining a great deal of light on everything which is very appreciated!
Quote from: Jay on August 8, 2020, 09:51{...}The gearbox and wiring are the shadowy bits that I'm unsure of. You are shining a great deal of light on everything which is very appreciated!
Obviously we've been covering the gearbox and i agree that it is certainly going to be the tricky bit for people in certain locales including the UK. Honestly the engine isn't super easy to get for you guys either but at least there were some available in the country and some is *WAY* better than none.
But let's talk a bit to that wiring worry because I've spent a ton of time on making that easier and that information is honestly valid for any other swap as long as the engine controller is able to respond to OBDII messages over high speed CAN.
The core of how i make it easier is the body controller that i make:
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/572955ec22482eafc9584297/1575427872723-L1RQO4FMKJSASGP0HECO/IMG_5497.JPG?format=500w&content-type=image%2Fjpeg)
this is a circuit board that gets installed the stock ECU case and you plug the normal chassis integration plugs into it. The circuits on there do a few things:
-they talk to the new ECU over CAN to request the coolant temperature and then translate that temperature to the BEAN bus to send it to the gauges cluster.
-It takes the alternator charge light and the oil pressure switch state from two direct wire inputs and transmits them to the cluster. Note that it also allows 5W to be drawn from the alternator charge light circuit so it looks like a light bulb and will work with any alternator in about the last 60-70 years since the older ones draw power from that circuit to energize the field windings.
-it reads the A/C request and the A/C thermistor over BEAN and the A/C pressure switch that is wired into it from the normal chassis wiring along with the state of the engine and controls the A/C clutch. The nice thing is, unlike the stock ECU being piggy back'd in you don't need a LOCK input anymore so you can now use any A/C compressor instead of being forced to use the stock Spyder unit. You do lose locked rotor detection though so that means it's like 90% of other A/C systems out there. The squeeling belt whenever the A/C switch is pressed should be a good enough fault indicator there anyways.
-and finally, the more silent but most important part is it routes the wires that the engine controller needs out of the two other stock plugs on the ECU so you don't need to cut any wires on the stock wiring harness. you can now just plug the swap right into those plugs and you have access to everything you need. It also adds a 5th plug that just passes through some of the engine controller signals to make it so you can have a seperate harness going to the accelerator pedal and the OBDII diagnostic port. It's really annoying when you have an engine harness reaching all the way to the accelerator pedal, that makes removal a huge pain.
I did make a video that goes over this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhN6tB84xj8 and also if you would rather read it there's a document here that covers how to use it and what all the connections do, which ones are necessary and which ones are optional: https://frankensteinmotorworks.com/MKIII/diagrams/Toyota%20MR2%20Spyder%20Body%20Controller%20Wiring%20Guide.pdf (https://frankensteinmotorworks.com/MKIII/diagrams/Toyota%20MR2%20Spyder%20Body%20Controller%20Wiring%20Guide.pdf)
Then i make two sub harnesses available:
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/572955ec22482eafc9584297/1563409269974-EOB7EA3UBTAJ7N0B1S3Z/IMG_5136.JPG?format=1000w&content-type=image%2Fjpeg)
The one on the left goes from that 5th plug to the accelerator pedal and the OBDII plug so you don't need to wire those at all.
The one on the right plugs from the largest plug on the body controller to the chassis integration plug on the ECU.
Note that the above was made for the 2AR-FE swap, the 2GR-FE uses the same connector and the same wires but with a slightly different pinout. The document above mentions the 12 steps required to update that harness to the rav4 2gr-fe ECU i sell and I'll also update it for the Sienna ECU that i will use in this swap when i get there.
That means at this point you've only got the direct engine harness to chassis plugs to deal with and there's also the 4th plug on the body controller left open because things like the alternator and the oil pressure switch would be expected to go to the chassis normally but need to go to the body controller instead.
So nothing complicated at this point yet, you've just bolted stuff in and plugged connectors in and on one connector you moved some wires but no wires had to be crimped or soldered yet and you're almost done with the wiring already
So then you take that 3rd gen Sienna 2GR-FE harness and you convert it to the FM1 chassis integration connector via the kit i sell: https://frankensteinmotorworks.squarespace.com/shop/sienna-fm1-pigtail-kit and of course a step by step video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GiKIxN82_Y and of course accompanying paper documentation if you prefer that: https://frankensteinmotorworks.com/2GRFE/diagrams/FM1%20connector%20wiring.pdf (though to be honest they really work better if you view the video and look at the paper documentation)
and for the Spyder you'll have to add two wires to FM1 that you'll salvage from the stock Sienna harness for reverse lights. There's a chance that you might even be able to salvage the connector from the Sienna harness also, i need to look more into this.
And now that means you've crimped three wires together and if one crimp fails you'll just get slightly worst throttle response and a check engine light and if either of the other two fail you'll lose reverse lights but it'll still get you home no problem. The most catastrophic thing that could happen is if you the reverse light wiring shorts to the chassis somewhere because the crimp was *that* bad you'll blow the alternator ignition fuse and lose charging. This is a problem of course but it should not be that hard to avoid this.
It also means that you're now inside the cab with the wiring and you have 3 chassis plugs on the MR2 (BC1, BC2 and BC3), 1 plug on the body controller(E4) and the FM1 plug from the engine that need to be connected in a small harness that patches those together.
One of the plugs only gets one wire from the body controller and it's optional only if you have daytime running lights and want to keep that functionality.
Alternator ignition goes from E4 to BC1
Ground, oxygen sensor power, reverse light bulbs and ignition coil power goes from FM1 to BC1
Alternator battery sense, A/C clutch, MAF power, starter solenoid and fuel injector power goes from FM1 to BC2
Oil Pressure switch, alternator light, reverse light power, alternator ignition and two grounds go from E4 to FM1
And that's it, you're done. So you still do need to make a harness but it's about 12" long or so and contains 16 wires (17 if you have DRL) that are fully documented already with plugs you'll already have.
The only part of the above that isn't documented properly yet is the reverse lights, that's two wires going to a single connector and relatively easy to figure out but don't worry i'll make a pin by pin video describing exactly what needs to be done to make that harness, it'll take less than an hour for most people to convert the sienna harness to the FM1 connector and then less than an hour to make that adapter harness I discussed above with the 16/17 wires.
The 2AR-FE wiring skips the FM1 connector because the Scion tC harness already matches the same pins as the Spyder uses so there's only two wires that need crimped in that one to do the whole harness work but it's still a very similar wiring job and the video for that is here if you want to see it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKUaHLryid0
*Side note, I really wish the text entry box on this site was a bit bigger, only seeing a dozen lines at a time is somewhat of a pain when typing large replies*
I would do so much to find out how you translate coolant and alternator light over BEAN. That's literally the only reason some cars have the stock ECU piggybacked
And, you can just drag the bottom right of the text box to expand
Quote from: shnazzle on August 8, 2020, 16:51And, you can just drag the bottom right of the text box to expand
You're a savior, thanks!
Quote from: shnazzle on August 8, 2020, 16:51I would do so much to find out how you translate coolant and alternator light over BEAN. That's literally the only reason some cars have the stock ECU piggybacked
The BEAN bus is a proprietary bus but thankfully Toyota released an SAE paper about it: https://frankensteinmotorworks.com/MKIII/2ARSwap/SAE970297.pdf
That gets you 99% of the way there and the only thing left to figure out from there is the polynomial used for the checksum but it's a one byte polynomial with a few extra bytes of start state options so there's only a couple thousand possibilities so i just recorded the temperature climbing messages and then brute forced the polynomial backwards from there. Since the polynomial is only needed for transmitting messages and not for reading it's relatively easy to hack like that.
Reading the bus is just a question of bringing the voltage down to where the microcontroller can read it with a couple resistors and a zener diode. I'm just using the microcontroller's body diode instead of having it externally. Then I designed a circuit that is recessive at ground and dominant at 12V so i could write to the bus using two transistors a handful of resistors and a diode, getting the fall time to be fast enough and keeping the ground a recessive state (where another module can pull it up without additional resistance) was the tricky bit.
From there I wrote some bare metal C code on a microcontroller to emulate the peripheral. As far as i know there's no microcontroller out there that exists that has BEAN as a built-in peripheral. The tricky bit here was how to use minimal hardware so i could keep the price of the body controller down. There was some interesting interrupt programming needed and a bit of critical cycle counting to resync to the remote transmit frequency since it's only "near" 10kHz, not exactly 10kHz. A one off solution could just throw a way more powerful CPU at the problem instead and just oversample at 200kHz and then easily decode the message.
But honestly, I sell the body controller for $190 and the form factor makes wiring the car way easier. The documentation also has a minimal 14 wire configuration for A/C or 8 wire connection just for the dash stuff. You can use that wiring configuration if you just want to retrofit this body controller into an existing swap to add this stuff in there.
Perhaps i'm biased but $190 sounds like a deal. I know i would have been all over just buying that solution instead of designing my own if it was available at that price.
Quote from: Marc on August 8, 2020, 17:52Quote from: shnazzle on August 8, 2020, 16:51And, you can just drag the bottom right of the text box to expand
You're a savior, thanks!
Quote from: shnazzle on August 8, 2020, 16:51I would do so much to find out how you translate coolant and alternator light over BEAN. That's literally the only reason some cars have the stock ECU piggybacked
The BEAN bus is a proprietary bus but thankfully Toyota released an SAE paper about it: https://frankensteinmotorworks.com/MKIII/2ARSwap/SAE970297.pdf
That gets you 99% of the way there and the only thing left to figure out from there is the polynomial used for the checksum but it's a one byte polynomial with a few extra bytes of start state options so there's only a couple thousand possibilities so i just recorded the temperature climbing messages and then brute forced the polynomial backwards from there. Since the polynomial is only needed for transmitting messages and not for reading it's relatively easy to hack like that.
Reading the bus is just a question of bringing the voltage down to where the microcontroller can read it with a couple resistors and a zener diode. I'm just using the microcontroller's body diode instead of having it externally. Then I designed a circuit that is recessive at ground and dominant at 12V so i could write to the bus using two transistors a handful of resistors and a diode, getting the fall time to be fast enough and keeping the ground a recessive state (where another module can pull it up without additional resistance) was the tricky bit.
From there I wrote some bare metal C code on a microcontroller to emulate the peripheral. As far as i know there's no microcontroller out there that exists that has BEAN as a built-in peripheral. The tricky bit here was how to use minimal hardware so i could keep the price of the body controller down. There was some interesting interrupt programming needed and a bit of critical cycle counting to resync to the remote transmit frequency since it's only "near" 10kHz, not exactly 10kHz. A one off solution could just throw a way more powerful CPU at the problem instead and just oversample at 200kHz and then easily decode the message.
But honestly, I sell the body controller for $190 and the form factor makes wiring the car way easier. The documentation also has a minimal 14 wire configuration for A/C or 8 wire connection just for the dash stuff. You can use that wiring configuration if you just want to retrofit this body controller into an existing swap to add this stuff in there.
Perhaps i'm biased but $190 sounds like a deal. I know i would have been all over just buying that solution instead of designing my own if it was available at that price.
You're one of my new favourite people.
I did have that SAE document actually but didn't get all the way through it. Should have stuck it out.
Quite frankly dude, 190usd is a steal for that
Totally would pay $190 for that no probs... just wish I had the engine to go with it!
2GR-FE only in RX350? What about the GS450H or RX450H - are they the same engine?
I try to share as much info as i can, i haven't found there's anything to gain by making this stuff a secret. Of course there's still some bits that i won't share like my mechanical drawings and software that i've written but within reason i usually help people even if they aren't buying my parts.
Quote from: J88TEO on August 8, 2020, 20:332GR-FE only in RX350? What about the GS450H or RX450H - are they the same engine?
The GS450H is a 2gr-fse motor, it sounds almost the same but it's more or less a completely different engine. I'm not saying it's impossible but it's going to be a lot harder.
The RX450h uses the 2GR-FXE which as far as i know is mechanically the same shape so it would bolt in but the vvt-i system is different and the compression is higher because this motor runs in a pseudo atkinson cycle mode. If you're willing to use an aftermarket ECU there's a good chance you can make that one work. *note* i haven't done this myself, this is just speculation at this point.
Marc,
Thanks...so just the 2GE-FE then....
Post 57 - I'm nodding in approval, you are a genius
Post 59 - I'm baffled, you are a magician, you lost me at polynomial :))
Quote from: jvanzyl on August 8, 2020, 20:02Totally would pay $190 for that no probs... just wish I had the engine to go with it!
I agree....
Quote from: J88TEO on August 8, 2020, 20:56Marc,
Thanks...so just the 2GE-FE then....
Yeah, the 2gr-fxe would really only be an option if you're looking for a challenge. the extra costs would outweigh any savings on the engine cost.
Quote from: Jay on August 8, 2020, 21:06Post 57 - I'm nodding in approval, you are a genius
Post 59 - I'm baffled, you are a magician, you lost me at polynomial :))
I just enjoy working on cars. It also helps that i spent a bit over 10 years doing automotive electronics for a living.
On a different note, i am out there shooting part 2 right now. I hope to have it out in a day or two. I've got about 2-3hours of wrenching left and then a whole ton of editing.
Great!
Looking forward to part 2.
Quote from: J88TEO on August 8, 2020, 23:17Great!
Looking forward to part 2.
Wait no more! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSlcfFxc8OI
Enjoy :)
Great1
Many thanks...
I was watching the 2ARFE ones......maybe that's the route to go as the 3GRFE engines are quite difficult get hold of here...
Quote from: J88TEO on August 10, 2020, 08:22Great1
Many thanks...
I was watching the 2ARFE ones......maybe that's the route to go as the 3GRFE engines are quite difficult get hold of here...
Erm.. think you got it the other way round.
We do have the 2GR, we don't get the same 2AR.
You are correct...thinking with the wrong brain....home country instead of host country! :)
Quote from: jvanzyl on August 10, 2020, 08:33Quote from: J88TEO on August 10, 2020, 08:22Great1
Many thanks...
I was watching the 2ARFE ones......maybe that's the route to go as the 3GRFE engines are quite difficult get hold of here...
Erm.. think you got it the other way round.
We do have the 2GR, we don't get the same 2AR.
How much a 2GR would set you back?
So far...searching the net I haven't come across a 2GR-FE engine for sale....
Maybe I am looking at in the wrong places! :-(
Ah- you need to look at the bigger picture. Ie the whole car! You're looking for a Lexus rx350.
Or any the jap imports that had them. Start on wiki for the 2GR and look at the models it came in.
Quote from: jvanzyl on August 10, 2020, 11:52Ah- you need to look at the bigger picture. Ie the whole car! You're looking for a Lexus rx350.
Or any the jap imports that had them. Start on wiki for the 2GR and look at the models it came in.
Depending on the availability and number of engines + boxes I can try to work something out for us. Meaning we would have to wait for 2 months for the engines to come to EU but wont pay any import taxes. Then its just shipping from Bulgaria to you.
Depending on the availability and number of engines + boxes I can try to work something out for us. Meaning we would have to wait for 2 months for the engines to come to EU but wont pay any import taxes. Then its just shipping from Bulgaria to you.
[/quote]
That may be the way to go....
Hi, back here after some years now, and exited to read this tread!
Regarding the Avensis/Rav/3ZR EB60, can you convert the bellhousing to fit a leftside mounted starter?
Like Paul Woods do on the EA6x transmission?
Cut a hole, weld some plates, how difficult can it be;-)
If one knows how to weld alu then it is easy.....
You guys see the nifty video on the "money change" lockout he made.. was pretty cool
I'm no expert so don't shoot me down but I thought Patrick Chamber had done an EB60 conversion? I'm sure the last time I visited him he said it was the way forward as the EB60 gearbox uses 3 rows of cogs not two, and therefore this allows for thicker cogs, and this box was used in the 2.2 turbo diesel,(Auris makes 400Nm).
I'd be interested to see an EB60 opened up.
I don't know if the Mr2 LSD would fit?
Quote from: Mark A on September 3, 2020, 18:07I'm no expert so don't shoot me down but I thought Patrick Chamber had done an EB60 conversion? I'm sure the last time I visited him he said it was the way forward as the EB60 gearbox uses 3 rows of cogs not two, and therefore this allows for thicker cogs, and this box was used in the 2.2 turbo diesel,(Auris makes 400Nm).
I'd be interested to see an EB60 opened up.
I don't know if the Mr2 LSD would fit?
ummm... please could you find out more/ confirm this?
You are mixing the EA and EB gearboxes.
EA is a superstrong box used in diesels and the Lotus Evora.
Been used in auris, avensis, rav +++ since 2005.
A big and heavy box, 60kg+
EB is a box used in 2 and 2,5 litre gasoline engines, and are better suited for a sportscar. Better gearing and shift feel.
and back to the beginning again.. ergh..
Sorry to drag an oldish thread up.
I've picked up an EA60 gearbox to look at how it might mount to a 2zz (I have spare broken engins to play with)
Marc and anyone else usi g this box, how did you go about the linkages.
I've looked at using evora linkages but it gets expensive very quickly.
Looks like they run the cables past the box and back again.
Ask on twobrutal