MR2 Roadster Owners Club

What are people's thoughts on sports cats?

I can't find too many posts/threads from people who have sports cats fitted.

If anyone has experience to share about:
- passing MOT / engine light
- sound
- performance

It would be great to hear!

Thanks

Decent 200 cell cat on a good engine shouldn't give any issues at mot time.
BUT... pretty much a waste of time and money if you're running rough and/or don't open up the manifold/cat back.
Will increase flow and noise as part of a complete, free flowing system.

Quote from: Call the midlife! on September 12, 2020, 16:21Decent 200 cell cat on a good engine shouldn't give any issues at mot time.
BUT... pretty much a waste of time and money if you're running rough and/or don't open up the manifold/cat back.
Will increase flow and noise as part of a complete, free flowing system.

My car runs fine. (in fact i've got no idea what people mean by "running rough", never experienced it)

It's standard currently.

I am intending to get a custom catback exhaust made. Looking at getting it done by Tony Banks Exhausts. They also do cats and say they can fit a sports cat (i presume 200cell) too, and I kind of think 'in for a penny, in for a pound'. :)

But I don't know how easy it is to pass MOT with sports cat on this engine.

What's wrong with stock manifold? And what can you upgrade to? The manifolds I can find on ebay look pretty standard. I want to replace the manifold to get rid of the pre cats, but not sure what to get. I know people on here say they have Toyosports manifolds but I can't find that anywhere. The only dedicated aftermarket one that's non-ebay-special is Zero Exhausts and that's £400 which i would not be willing to pay.

Not much point unless going forced induction or for a stand alone ecu.
Never had a problem passing mot with 200 cell wouldn't chance 100.
Needs to be hot hot hot.

Toyosports does them in batches.  so they don't seem to be available right now.  There is this one, which seems pretty much the same -though I'd have to inspect one to know for sure:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STAINLESS-EXHAUST-MANIFOLD-SPORT-FOR-TOYOTA-MR2-MR-2-MRS-W30-ROADSTER-1-8-00-07/153568997571?fits=Model%3AMR+2%7CPlat_Gen%3AMK+III&hash=item23c16cf0c3:g:tF0AAOSwsKFfKqbp

Edit:  You get what you pay for in the exhaust department.  I am on my second Toyosports - they do crack eventually.  I've handled and fitted a Zero ,and they are top quality and worth the money if you can afford them

An eBay search for mr2 manifold will produce one. Cheap and cheerful. Might crack in a few years but for the price...

Difference between a Zero and an ebay; Zero had dyno proven performance increase. EBay has none. But, it doesn't reduce performance so it's still a good buy.

As for sports cat; the mod that has made the most noticeable power gain. Although I did get it the same time I got the Zero.

Noise increase definitely with a sport cat. No doubt. Definitely louder.

By "running rough" I mean anything away from normal running with decent fuel trims and combustion. You could always fit a 400 cell if you're concerned about the emissions test.
There's nothing "wrong" with the standard manifold but the purpose of the lower cell "sport" cat is to improve flow so a better flowing manifold will be a good idea.

Quote from: Carolyn on September 12, 2020, 16:48Toyosports does them in batches.  so they don't seem to be available right now.  There is this one, which seems pretty much the same -though I'd have to inspect one to know for sure:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STAINLESS-EXHAUST-MANIFOLD-SPORT-FOR-TOYOTA-MR2-MR-2-MRS-W30-ROADSTER-1-8-00-07/153568997571?fits=Model%3AMR+2%7CPlat_Gen%3AMK+III&hash=item23c16cf0c3:g:tF0AAOSwsKFfKqbp

Edit:  You get what you pay for in the exhaust department.  I am on my second Toyosports - they do crack eventually.  I've handled and fitted a Zero ,and they are top quality and worth the money if you can afford them

Thanks. Yes I've seen that on ebay. What I'm asking is what is the advantage of having an ebay manifold vs the stock one. Other than it having no precat.

Quote from: treeroy on September 12, 2020, 18:27

Quote from: Carolyn on September 12, 2020, 16:48Toyosports does them in batches.  so they don't seem to be available right now.  There is this one, which seems pretty much the same -though I'd have to inspect one to know for sure:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STAINLESS-EXHAUST-MANIFOLD-SPORT-FOR-TOYOTA-MR2-MR-2-MRS-W30-ROADSTER-1-8-00-07/153568997571?fits=Model%3AMR+2%7CPlat_Gen%3AMK+III&hash=item23c16cf0c3:g:tF0AAOSwsKFfKqbp

Edit:  You get what you pay for in the exhaust department.  I am on my second Toyosports - they do crack eventually.  I've handled and fitted a Zero ,and they are top quality and worth the money if you can afford them

Thanks. Yes I've seen that on ebay. What I'm asking is what is the advantage of having an ebay manifold vs the stock one. Other than it having no precat.

Not a lot - unless you've knocked the cats out of the cans - then the tubular manifold will give better performance.

@Carolyn  sorry but what's a Tubular manifold? You mean if I remove the precat then the stock manifold is best?

I intend on having the precats removed just for my peace of mind. So either remove them from current manifold or get an aftermarket manifold.

Quote from: treeroy on September 12, 2020, 18:55@Carolyn  sorry but what's a Tubular manifold? You mean if I remove the precat then the stock manifold is best?

I intend on having the precats removed just for my peace of mind. So either remove them from current manifold or get an aftermarket manifold.

Knocking out the pre-cats will leave your engine blowing into two big empty cans, which will not perform as well as an aftermarket 'tubular' (made from tubing) one. 

It's all small differences - but they do add up.

There is a bit of a mixed bag when looking at exhaust changes because the exhaust is like a chain with the cat being the most restrictive link.
So swapping the OEM manifold for ány tubular will net yiu te same restriction.
That observed, a gutted OEM manifold introduces undesireable harmonics so will be ever so slightly wórse.

With a less restrictive cat the manifold and muffler become more critical. A cheaper aftermarket maifold will flow better than the OEM one and will be sufficient till you hook ip a réally free flowing muffler.

I have fitted a cheapish one with good brackets to the engine block and the fixtures for the OEM heatshields. For the cheapest of manifolds heat wrapping is quite an extra stress ánd I prefer the heat shield to wrapping anyway.

Spend your money on Zero manifold and racecat. Excellent quality.

Absolutely agree. As Carolyn says " you get what you pay for in the exhaust department". Zero may cost more than most other systems, but they are value for money. No question.

I've said this before but it bears repeating (and I've got a Zero manifold myself) if you're not changing anything but the exhaust system for a bit of extra flow then just buy a Toyosport for the £120 or whatever and see how long it lasts. 
If you only get 3 or 4 years out of it then just buy another and you're still not out of pocket, if you get 10 years then all the better.

I hear what you're saying, but I'm of the "do it once and do it the best you possibly can and hang the expense" brigade. If you come from a different stance (and experience tells me that there is a lot of value in that different viewpoint) then the (much) less expensive way has a lot going for it.

Quote from: InnerStaytes on September 12, 2020, 21:12I hear what you're saying, but I'm of the "do it once and do it the best you possibly can and hang the expense" brigade. If you come from a different stance (and experience tells me that there is a lot of value in that different viewpoint) then the (much) less expensive way has a lot going for it.

Don't get me wrong I'm the same as you, all I mean is unless it's part of a major build with the associated investment then as we say in Yorkshire "it'll do..."

Quote from: InnerStaytes on September 12, 2020, 21:12I hear what you're saying, but I'm of the "do it once and do it the best you possibly can and hang the expense" brigade. If you come from a different stance (and experience tells me that there is a lot of value in that different viewpoint) then the (much) less expensive way has a lot going for it.

These cars are almost worthless, so unless it's absolutely essential work then I do not side with the "No expense spared" view.

My previous car I wanted to maintain properly, I bought it in June and spent £600 on doing up various things that weren't necessary fixes, but I wanted it to be done properly. Then a few weeks after, I crashed and wrote it off. Between me paying for the car and the insurance payout, I effectively lost 80% of the car's value, in two months. Plus losing that money I spent fixing it.

Bit of a wake up call to me. So I just want to spend the minimum required. Never know how long i'm gonna have the car. So no point on spending loads. If its cheaper to get the precats removed then why spend so much on a manifold? Especially one at £400 which will do the same job as a £120 ebay job. OK might last longer, but this is a 20 year old car, how long do u think the car's gonna last? You just dont know. :)

As I mentioned, they're not equal. Otherwise nobody would go for the 400 quid one. 
People like @stewart@boro have been tuning their Toyosport for at least 7 years.
Why choose that? Because gutting pre-cats isn't free (Labour, gaskets, time), it poses a health risk without proper PPE, and it causes an odd (barely noticeable) flat spot in power. 
120 quid gets you the peace of mind of no pre-cats without the flat spot. 
But gutting the stock manifold is "fine". 

Summary:
Cheapest - DIY gutting pre-cats, £25gbp approx for gaskets, tiny flat spot, peace of mind
Middle - DIY Toyosport, £150 with gaskets, no flat spot, no gains, peace of mind, luck of the draw quality. 
Top - DIY Zero, £425 (gaskets incl), proven increase in power, peace of mind. Life-time warranty 

Add another 30-60 for an o2 sensor that is likely to pack it in when you manhandle the manifold.

As for out lasting the car; unlikely. 
If you want to spend as little as possible on the car; leave the exhaust well alone. Maintain it well. Keep it on good tyres. Enjoy it while you've got it

I think you're mixing a few things up along the way, I'll gloss over the worthless part, a Zero manifold for £400 or so will do the same job as a £50 ebay manifold in the sense that it carries away exhaust gases.
But it will do it better because it's designed to do it better, so as we've previously discussed it all depends on the rest of your build and if it's worth the investment.
If you're classing your car as a worthless consumable then just leave the standard manifold as it is and drive it, it'll probably last long enough for your needs.
You're asking questions and we're giving you a full range of answers and options based on experience.
It's up to you how you choose to use the information.

Quote from: shnazzle on September 12, 2020, 22:53Cheapest - DIY gutting pre-cats, £25gbp approx for gaskets, tiny flat spot, peace of mind
Middle - DIY Toyosport, £150 with gaskets, no flat spot, no gains, peace of mind, luck of the draw quality.
Top - DIY Zero, £425 (gaskets incl), proven increase in power, peace of mind. Life-time warranty

Add another 30-60 for an o2 sensor that is likely to pack it in when you manhandle the manifold.

As for out lasting the car; unlikely.
If you want to spend as little as possible on the car; leave the exhaust well alone. Maintain it well. Keep it on good tyres. Enjoy it while you've got it

Post of the day.

Quote from: Call the midlife! on September 12, 2020, 22:58If you're classing your car as a worthless consumable then just leave the standard manifold as it is and drive it.

second post of the day.

As I mentioned; the fixtures for the OEM heat shields are a thing not to overlook. For road use something to take into account in the decision process.

Quote from: treeroy on September 12, 2020, 16:13What are people's thoughts on sports cats?

I can't find too many posts/threads from people who have sports cats fitted.

If anyone has experience to share about:
- passing MOT / engine light
- sound
- performance

It would be great to hear!

Thanks

Zero cat should met Euro 4  standards (this what docs for Magnaflow cat says) for MR2 n/a.

High flow cat is louder, especialy if you connect it with Zero mainfold and TTE backbox. For me to loudy for longer journeys. That's why I'm waiting for Zero backbox.  But if You like loudy cars go for it. Sounds awsome.

For full performance benefits You need to replace mainfold and backbox. But it is worth, around 155hp is expected. :) 

What some of you fail to inform about is the fact that Zero has a larger diameter tubing than the cheapo ebay stuff, so if you want a proper race cat you also need a proper header. Go Zero.

I'm pretty sure it's been mentioned on another thread, we've been going round in circles for a week or so on a couple of exhaust threads.
But you're quite right..

Quote from: Bugster_MR2 on September 13, 2020, 20:33What some of you fail to inform about is the fact that Zero has a larger diameter tubing than the cheapo ebay stuff, so if you want a proper race cat you also need a proper header. Go Zero.
 

Quote from: Bugster_MR2 on September 13, 2020, 20:33What some of you fail to inform about is the fact that Zero has a larger diameter tubing than the cheapo ebay stuff, so if you want a proper race cat you also need a proper header. Go Zero.

Only so many times you can write the same info about one product haha.

But yes, bigger pipes. Which may not give you what you're after. It's more aimed at higher hp figures. It actually feels less torquey at low rpm with a Zero if you ask me.

But paired with a sports cat, it's like an asthmatic suddenly being able to breathe freely. With a better backbox as well you're really laughing.

Quote from: tom256 on September 13, 2020, 13:24

Quote from: treeroy on September 12, 2020, 16:13What are people's thoughts on sports cats?

I can't find too many posts/threads from people who have sports cats fitted.

If anyone has experience to share about:
- passing MOT / engine light
- sound
- performance

It would be great to hear!

Thanks

Zero cat should met Euro 4  standards (this what docs for Magnaflow cat says) for MR2 n/a.

High flow cat is louder, especialy if you connect it with Zero mainfold and TTE backbox. For me to loudy for longer journeys. That's why I'm waiting for Zero backbox.  But if You like loudy cars go for it. Sounds awsome.

For full performance benefits You need to replace mainfold and backbox. But it is worth, around 155hp is expected. :) 

Without some form of ecu I doubt you'd see 15+bhp.
Always very sceptical of NA tuning figures.

Quote from: 1979scotte on September 14, 2020, 06:52

Quote from: tom256 on September 13, 2020, 13:24

Quote from: treeroy on September 12, 2020, 16:13What are people's thoughts on sports cats?

I can't find too many posts/threads from people who have sports cats fitted.

If anyone has experience to share about:
- passing MOT / engine light
- sound
- performance

It would be great to hear!

Thanks

Zero cat should met Euro 4  standards (this what docs for Magnaflow cat says) for MR2 n/a.

High flow cat is louder, especialy if you connect it with Zero mainfold and TTE backbox. For me to loudy for longer journeys. That's why I'm waiting for Zero backbox.  But if You like loudy cars go for it. Sounds awsome.

For full performance benefits You need to replace mainfold and backbox. But it is worth, around 155hp is expected. :) 

Without some form of ecu I doubt you'd see 15+bhp.
Always very sceptical of NA tuning figures.

155 with a 15 increase is also making the assumption you're starting with 140 in the first place, ignoring the book value of 138.

With the last cars being 14 years old even those probably won't be making the original, factory power and the ones that have the best, proven dyno results were all fairly young cars at the time or had other tweaks along the way.
Without a doubt, freeing up the exhaust system will give gains but you've got to take into account where you're starting from.

Quote from: Call the midlife! on September 14, 2020, 07:58155 with a 15 increase is also making the assumption you're starting with 140 in the first place, ignoring the book value of 138.

Make it 150 or 148 or whatever.

Point is that a good flowing exhaust frees up some extra 10% of the horses it has. Nothing to be sneeezed at. More so because it is basically for free. It is not burning any more gasoline; just energy otherwise used up to push the gasses out.
Thermally the engine will run cóóler even and the engine room temp will go down markedly! Almost beyond belief: My unwrapped noisy bugger with OEM heat shields per example: Pushing it to 80% an more of the limits over the backroads of Extramadura; 38 degrees C. in the shade, over 50 tarmac, averaging close to 100km/h, the black heat shield over the muffler was still not to hot to touch when stopping for lunch.

Back to the manifold, a larger diameter is not neccessarily a good thing for road use. Nor is imo wrapping but hey that is a lost cause.

Quote from: Petrus on September 14, 2020, 09:42

Quote from: Call the midlife! on September 14, 2020, 07:58155 with a 15 increase is also making the assumption you're starting with 140 in the first place, ignoring the book value of 138.

Make it 150 or 148 or whatever.

Point is that a good flowing exhaust frees up some extra 10% of the horses it has. Nothing to be sneeezed at. More so because it is basically for free. It is not burning any more gasoline; just energy otherwise used up to push the gasses out.
Thermally the engine will run cóóler even and the engine room temp will go down markedly! Almost beyond belief: My unwrapped noisy bugger with OEM heat shields per example: Pushing it to 80% an more of the limits over the backroads of Extramadura; 38 degrees C. in the shade, over 50 tarmac, averaging close to 100km/h, the black heat shield over the muffler was still not to hot to touch when stopping for lunch.

Back to the manifold, a larger diameter is not neccessarily a good thing for road use. Nor is imo wrapping but hey that is a lost cause.

As I said, gains over standard but quoting expected bhp can be misleading to the casual reader or those less experienced.

Spending the sums of money involved on the basis you're expecting 155bhp will most likely only lead to disappointment.
On a tired old engine and drivetrain  that's potentially already down to 125/130bhp your 10% is bringing it back to around stock power, or just a few ponies more.
Which isn't to be sniffed at but bears considering before making the investment.

Quote from: Call the midlife! on September 14, 2020, 10:08

Quote from: Petrus on September 14, 2020, 09:42

Quote from: Call the midlife! on September 14, 2020, 07:58155 with a 15 increase is also making the assumption you're starting with 140 in the first place, ignoring the book value of 138.

Make it 150 or 148 or whatever.

Point is that a good flowing exhaust frees up some extra 10% of the horses it has. Nothing to be sneeezed at. More so because it is basically for free. It is not burning any more gasoline; just energy otherwise used up to push the gasses out.
Thermally the engine will run cóóler even and the engine room temp will go down markedly! Almost beyond belief: My unwrapped noisy bugger with OEM heat shields per example: Pushing it to 80% an more of the limits over the backroads of Extramadura; 38 degrees C. in the shade, over 50 tarmac, averaging close to 100km/h, the black heat shield over the muffler was still not to hot to touch when stopping for lunch.

Back to the manifold, a larger diameter is not neccessarily a good thing for road use. Nor is imo wrapping but hey that is a lost cause.

As I said, gains over standard but quoting expected bhp can be misleading to the casual reader or those less experienced.

Spending the sums of money involved on the basis you're expecting 155bhp will most likely only lead to disappointment.
On a tired old engine and drivetrain  that's potentially already down to 125/130bhp your 10% is bringing it back to around stock power, or just a few ponies more.
Which isn't to be sniffed at but bears considering before making the investment.

I don´t see the implication. It will be a roughly 10% increase in performance anywhichway. The actual numbers are meaningless anyway.
Remember that not even all horses are the same. That ranges from SAE and DIN to different types of tests benches, even individual dynos!

The réal implication is that expectations should not be about numbers but about relative performance increase.
Improving the flow of the exhaust is a win regardless. It reduces pump losses and reduces thermal stresses. It will be a noticeable improvement of about 10% be it from 128 to 140, 138 to 152 horses or 140 to 154.

Quote from: Petrus on September 14, 2020, 10:36

Quote from: Call the midlife! on September 14, 2020, 10:08

Quote from: Petrus on September 14, 2020, 09:42

Quote from: Call the midlife! on September 14, 2020, 07:58155 with a 15 increase is also making the assumption you're starting with 140 in the first place, ignoring the book value of 138.

Make it 150 or 148 or whatever.

Point is that a good flowing exhaust frees up some extra 10% of the horses it has. Nothing to be sneeezed at. More so because it is basically for free. It is not burning any more gasoline; just energy otherwise used up to push the gasses out.
Thermally the engine will run cóóler even and the engine room temp will go down markedly! Almost beyond belief: My unwrapped noisy bugger with OEM heat shields per example: Pushing it to 80% an more of the limits over the backroads of Extramadura; 38 degrees C. in the shade, over 50 tarmac, averaging close to 100km/h, the black heat shield over the muffler was still not to hot to touch when stopping for lunch.

Back to the manifold, a larger diameter is not neccessarily a good thing for road use. Nor is imo wrapping but hey that is a lost cause.

As I said, gains over standard but quoting expected bhp can be misleading to the casual reader or those less experienced.

Spending the sums of money involved on the basis you're expecting 155bhp will most likely only lead to disappointment.
On a tired old engine and drivetrain  that's potentially already down to 125/130bhp your 10% is bringing it back to around stock power, or just a few ponies more.
Which isn't to be sniffed at but bears considering before making the investment.

I don´t see the implication. It will be a roughly 10% increase in performance anywhichway. The actual numbers are meaningless anyway.
Remember that not even all horses are the same. That ranges from SAE and DIN to different types of tests benches, even individual dynos!

The réal implication is that expectations should not be about numbers but about relative performance increase.
Improving the flow of the exhaust is a win regardless. It reduces pump losses and reduces thermal stresses. It will be a noticeable improvement of about 10% be it from 128 to 140, 138 to 152 horses or 140 to 154.

Yes, it wasn't your 10% I was doubting, gains are gains. It's the sweeping statements from other posters on here and elsewhere that suggest a given max hp just from bolt ons that should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Quote from: Call the midlife! on September 14, 2020, 10:58Yes, it wasn't your 10% I was doubting, gains are gains. It's the sweeping statements from other posters on here and elsewhere that suggest a given max hp just from bolt ons that should be taken with a pinch of salt.

To be clear, I too was not really adressing YoÚ; it was clear that you have it on your retina ;-)

Take my car.
I don´t know how much horses it would have given on which dyno.
I dó know the weight it gave on certified scales but that is not the topic.
Back to the horses, the MAF mod and ´noisy buggah´exhaust system have resp. added some horses and reduced horses doing counterproductive work; say a few horses extra and 10% less loss. It is irrelevant; the real world difference is that the thing is quicker; 10%, 12% or??
Heck, tanking Euro95 or BP ultimate 98 is 5 to 10% difference too!

Even though I know the weight quite accurately and as an objectively correct number, the real world consequences are a lot softer because of the real world variables; the amount of fuel in the tank, the amount of crap stowed behind the seats, passenger or not; even whích passenger. The crux of the added lightness is that overall it is that much lighter thus quicker, more nimble.

Quote from: Call the midlife! on September 14, 2020, 10:58

Quote from: Petrus on September 14, 2020, 10:36

Quote from: Call the midlife! on September 14, 2020, 10:08

Quote from: Petrus on September 14, 2020, 09:42

Quote from: Call the midlife! on September 14, 2020, 07:58155 with a 15 increase is also making the assumption you're starting with 140 in the first place, ignoring the book value of 138.

Make it 150 or 148 or whatever.

Point is that a good flowing exhaust frees up some extra 10% of the horses it has. Nothing to be sneeezed at. More so because it is basically for free. It is not burning any more gasoline; just energy otherwise used up to push the gasses out.
Thermally the engine will run cóóler even and the engine room temp will go down markedly! Almost beyond belief: My unwrapped noisy bugger with OEM heat shields per example: Pushing it to 80% an more of the limits over the backroads of Extramadura; 38 degrees C. in the shade, over 50 tarmac, averaging close to 100km/h, the black heat shield over the muffler was still not to hot to touch when stopping for lunch.

Back to the manifold, a larger diameter is not neccessarily a good thing for road use. Nor is imo wrapping but hey that is a lost cause.

As I said, gains over standard but quoting expected bhp can be misleading to the casual reader or those less experienced.

Spending the sums of money involved on the basis you're expecting 155bhp will most likely only lead to disappointment.
On a tired old engine and drivetrain  that's potentially already down to 125/130bhp your 10% is bringing it back to around stock power, or just a few ponies more.
Which isn't to be sniffed at but bears considering before making the investment.

I don´t see the implication. It will be a roughly 10% increase in performance anywhichway. The actual numbers are meaningless anyway.
Remember that not even all horses are the same. That ranges from SAE and DIN to different types of tests benches, even individual dynos!

The réal implication is that expectations should not be about numbers but about relative performance increase.
Improving the flow of the exhaust is a win regardless. It reduces pump losses and reduces thermal stresses. It will be a noticeable improvement of about 10% be it from 128 to 140, 138 to 152 horses or 140 to 154.

Yes, it wasn't your 10% I was doubting, gains are gains. It's the sweeping statements from other posters on here and elsewhere that suggest a given max hp just from bolt ons that should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Couldn't agree more.
If I was going to make these mods I would want to know the state of the car before, so, professional assessment/guidance and dyno first.
Then, review the analysis, cost the parts and labour required (at both extremes of the budget i.e. High and Low) and calculate the cost per potential additional bhp - leaving subjectivity out of it.
Having frightened yourself at the cost - sit down with a cup of tea etc.
If you go ahead, at the end, repeat the original dyno and compare the results.
Finally, submit your choices and results to the forum so that we can all benefit from your real-world experience.

Quote from: SV-3 on September 14, 2020, 11:59If I was going to make these mods I would want to know the state of the car before, so, professional assessment/guidance and dyno first.
Then, review the analysis, cost the parts and labour required (at both extremes of the budget i.e. High and Low) and calculate the cost per potential additional bhp - leaving subjectivity out of it.
Having frightened yourself at the cost - sit down with a cup of tea etc.
If you go ahead, at the end, repeat the original dyno and compare the results.
Finally, summit your choices and results to the forum so that we can all benefit from your real-world experience.

Well, for the benefit of all that would be tops.
For the rest pretty useless. It is what it is anyway.

A free flowing manifold with ditto (de)cat and (no)muffler wíll liberate some 10% of horses from doing an exhaust gas pushing task to push the car. That has already been dyno proven and shared:
Freeing up the exit wíll make the car quicker. The rest is personal priority.

And mind; a dyno does not come for free. Putting it on the dyno twíce to illuztrate what we know already and to have an a meaningless absoolute number seems a rather needless cost increase.
I ´measure´ the before and after on the same stretch of road with two power apps on the mobile phone. Or rather I did; the phone packed up and the current one is too old; is ok for telephone calls and whatsapp only; think it´s a keeper :-)

Quote from: SV-3 on September 14, 2020, 11:59

Quote from: Call the midlife! on September 14, 2020, 10:58

Quote from: Petrus on September 14, 2020, 10:36

Quote from: Call the midlife! on September 14, 2020, 10:08

Quote from: Petrus on September 14, 2020, 09:42

Quote from: Call the midlife! on September 14, 2020, 07:58155 with a 15 increase is also making the assumption you're starting with 140 in the first place, ignoring the book value of 138.

Make it 150 or 148 or whatever.

Point is that a good flowing exhaust frees up some extra 10% of the horses it has. Nothing to be sneeezed at. More so because it is basically for free. It is not burning any more gasoline; just energy otherwise used up to push the gasses out.
Thermally the engine will run cóóler even and the engine room temp will go down markedly! Almost beyond belief: My unwrapped noisy bugger with OEM heat shields per example: Pushing it to 80% an more of the limits over the backroads of Extramadura; 38 degrees C. in the shade, over 50 tarmac, averaging close to 100km/h, the black heat shield over the muffler was still not to hot to touch when stopping for lunch.

Back to the manifold, a larger diameter is not neccessarily a good thing for road use. Nor is imo wrapping but hey that is a lost cause.

As I said, gains over standard but quoting expected bhp can be misleading to the casual reader or those less experienced.

Spending the sums of money involved on the basis you're expecting 155bhp will most likely only lead to disappointment.
On a tired old engine and drivetrain  that's potentially already down to 125/130bhp your 10% is bringing it back to around stock power, or just a few ponies more.
Which isn't to be sniffed at but bears considering before making the investment.

I don´t see the implication. It will be a roughly 10% increase in performance anywhichway. The actual numbers are meaningless anyway.
Remember that not even all horses are the same. That ranges from SAE and DIN to different types of tests benches, even individual dynos!

The réal implication is that expectations should not be about numbers but about relative performance increase.
Improving the flow of the exhaust is a win regardless. It reduces pump losses and reduces thermal stresses. It will be a noticeable improvement of about 10% be it from 128 to 140, 138 to 152 horses or 140 to 154.

Yes, it wasn't your 10% I was doubting, gains are gains. It's the sweeping statements from other posters on here and elsewhere that suggest a given max hp just from bolt ons that should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Couldn't agree more.
If I was going to make these mods I would want to know the state of the car before, so, professional assessment/guidance and dyno first.
Then, review the analysis, cost the parts and labour required (at both extremes of the budget i.e. High and Low) and calculate the cost per potential additional bhp - leaving subjectivity out of it.
Having frightened yourself at the cost - sit down with a cup of tea etc.
If you go ahead, at the end, repeat the original dyno and compare the results.
Finally, summit your choices and results to the forum so that we can all benefit from your real-world experience.

A large part of me will always wish I'd gone for a "before" dyno if only to see what the actual gains were from the work I did, bearing in mind the slightly disappointing results against what I'd anticipated.

That said, I've yet to have it on a dyno in full working order so we'll have another go next year. With a different cat back, fresh rings and no oil blowing out of the OCV filter housing...🤓

Its also worth pointing out that unless you use the same dyno, you won't get an 100% accurate result.

If you had a car that had 140bhp (stock), you might get 130bhp on one dyno, 140bhp on another, and 150bhp on another.

I find it hard to believe a sport cat or decat will give 10% increase on these cars, well on an otherwise healthy stock cat at least, is there any true back to back dyno proof of this or just road run/power apps etc ?



 
 

Quote from: treeroy on September 14, 2020, 13:32Its also worth pointing out that unless you use the same dyno, you won't get an 100% accurate result.

If you had a car that had 140bhp (stock), you might get 130bhp on one dyno, 140bhp on another, and 150bhp on another.

Meaning that a before and after comparison using the gsm accelerometer will do the same; give a delta

.

Quote from: thetyrant on September 14, 2020, 14:06I find it hard to believe a sport cat or decat will give 10% increase on these cars, well on an otherwise healthy stock cat at least, is there any true back to back dyno proof of this or just road run/power apps etc ?

Read manifold, decat, free flow muffler

Have a look at the various dyno graphs on this forum.

 

I very recently had a Toyosports manifold fitted AND a sports cat to go with my Cobra silencer.
The difference i find is that the car is more lively under throttle especially at higher RPM - i havent and wont dyno it as im not bothered. For what it cost me for what i percieve i get from it is perfect - great noise - if you drive sensible its not loud but if you hoof it it does get some noise going. I have  K&N induction on it too so overall i think she breathes quite well compared to a standard set up - but like most i assume, keeping the filter clean and the MAF clean makes enough sense and difference. All this goes out the window though when you find a tunnel,,,,then you want the noise, i dont care who you are, the smile you get from the rasp and the pops and bangs is worth every penny.

Quote from: Petrus on September 14, 2020, 14:12Read manifold, decat, free flow muffler

Have a look at the various dyno graphs on this forum.

Even then i think 10% is a lot but always good to see increases, its a shame we dont have a section for dyno charts on here as finding them within threads is very difficult, if you know where there are some before and after exhaust mods im always interested to learn :)

Quote from: thetyrant on September 14, 2020, 14:36its a shame we dont have a section for dyno charts on here

Well, there sort of is. They are in the ´sticky´ section.

toyosports (UK) ltd Contact Us
www.toyosports.co.uk › contact-us-2-w
Home Contact Us Toyosports UK Ltd Candy House Crystal Drive Smethwick Birmingham B66 1QG Internet Sales and Enquires Tel 0844 693 2449 or email us.

Quote from: thetyrant on September 14, 2020, 14:36

Quote from: Petrus on September 14, 2020, 14:12Read manifold, decat, free flow muffler

Have a look at the various dyno graphs on this forum.

Even then i think 10% is a lot but always good to see increases, its a shame we dont have a section for dyno charts on here as finding them within threads is very difficult, if you know where there are some before and after exhaust mods im always interested to learn :)

A lot of the problem is cost based I think, many people who change the exhaust system alone are doing it for shits and giggles so don't want to spend the money on dyno runs.

Then those of us who go further with the builds and have them dyno tuned can't really contribute to the exhaust only information.

Quote from: Petrus on September 14, 2020, 14:39

Quote from: thetyrant on September 14, 2020, 14:36its a shame we dont have a section for dyno charts on here

Well, there sort of is. They are in the ´sticky´ section.

Yes had a look through there but unless i missed it i didnt see a before and after comparison with exhaust mods. also some very high numbers for minimal mods in some cases!  the good old dyno difference debates :D

I recently changed my stock rear silencer from stock to 2.5" straight through and felt very little if any difference in power, maybe a tiny bit free'er at the top end but the extra noise can make you think its faster so may only of been that :)

Quote from: thetyrant on September 14, 2020, 14:36

Quote from: Petrus on September 14, 2020, 14:12Read manifold, decat, free flow muffler

Have a look at the various dyno graphs on this forum.

Even then i think 10% is a lot but always good to see increases, its a shame we dont have a section for dyno charts on here as finding them within threads is very difficult, if you know where there are some before and after exhaust mods im always interested to learn :)

 I do not know about the 10% figure only what I remember from the old SC days.  Dyno numbers are what you make of it as a lot of it could be due to a multitude of factors like the condition of the car and the dyno operator to skew the result. 
 Most of these so called bolt ons have been a disappointment from their projected claim and in some instances there was a loss of power in the case of air filters.  I especially get perturbed when someone adds up their advertised hp of the bolt ons and say they are as fast as a 2ZZ or some app they used to calculate their gains. 

Having said that my opinion based on what I have seen with a performance  downpipe that was larger than the one being discussed based on reported dynos is that it's only one of two actual bolt ons that makes power. There is a major restriction in the OEM pipe which is the bottle neck for power. I have seen the before and after of a few dynos that showed the gain is in-between 5-10 whp. I would say at best its about 8whp which is significant and can be appreciated. The drawback is the noise and that is why I sold it a month after I bought it because I needed ear plugs. A performance downpipe is not just beneficial for our cars but for a verity of other cars as the gains can be even more depending on the factory restriction and what comes after it.

Quote from: Ac1962 on September 14, 2020, 14:15I very recently had a Toyosports manifold fitted AND a sports cat to go with my Cobra silencer.
The difference i find is that the car is more lively under throttle especially at higher RPM - i havent and wont dyno it as im not bothered. For what it cost me for what i percieve i get from it is perfect - great noise - if you drive sensible its not loud but if you hoof it it does get some noise going. I have  K&N induction on it too so overall i think she breathes quite well compared to a standard set up - but like most i assume, keeping the filter clean and the MAF clean makes enough sense and difference. All this goes out the window though when you find a tunnel,,,,then you want the noise, i dont care who you are, the smile you get from the rasp and the pops and bangs is worth every penny.

If you dont mind me asking, where did you get your Toyosports manifold from?

Quote from: Petrus on September 14, 2020, 09:42

Quote from: Call the midlife! on September 14, 2020, 07:58155 with a 15 increase is also making the assumption you're starting with 140 in the first place, ignoring the book value of 138.

Make it 150 or 148 or whatever.

Point is that a good flowing exhaust frees up some extra 10% of the horses it has. Nothing to be sneeezed at. More so because it is basically for free. It is not burning any more gasoline; just energy otherwise used up to push the gasses out.
Thermally the engine will run cóóler even and the engine room temp will go down markedly! Almost beyond belief: My unwrapped noisy bugger with OEM heat shields per example: Pushing it to 80% an more of the limits over the backroads of Extramadura; 38 degrees C. in the shade, over 50 tarmac, averaging close to 100km/h, the black heat shield over the muffler was still not to hot to touch when stopping for lunch.

Back to the manifold, a larger diameter is not neccessarily a good thing for road use. Nor is imo wrapping but hey that is a lost cause.

We've just arrived home in 28 degree "heat" shuffled the daily and the 2 to get the latter in the garage and the radiator fan came on. Black heat shield could likely fry an egg!
My 2 is standard but minus pre cats so something is making / keeping it hot if Mr P's is running cooler in higher ambient temperatures.

Quote from: thetyrant on September 14, 2020, 14:58I recently changed my stock rear silencer from stock to 2.5" straight through and felt very little if any difference in power, maybe a tiny bit free'er at the top end but the extra noise can make you think its faster so may only of been that :)

The cat is the main restriction but as it is a chain with three links, swapping it for a decat pipe will see the manifold and muffler holding back the gasses.
Even totally free it still is all relative, not a different car, not like adding a turbo. The say 10% you are hardly going to notice and indeed mainly at higher revs because that is where the difference in horses is largests. It will just be a bit more lively. And a LÓT more noisy. You will free considerably more decibels than horses. Mine would définitely be a NoNo in more densely populated regions. Í think it´s :-cool though and it also is literally :-)

Quote from: Petrus on September 14, 2020, 12:11

Quote from: SV-3 on September 14, 2020, 11:59If I was going to make these mods I would want to know the state of the car before, so, professional assessment/guidance and dyno first.
Then, review the analysis, cost the parts and labour required (at both extremes of the budget i.e. High and Low) and calculate the cost per potential additional bhp - leaving subjectivity out of it.
Having frightened yourself at the cost - sit down with a cup of tea etc.
If you go ahead, at the end, repeat the original dyno and compare the results.
Finally, summit your choices and results to the forum so that we can all benefit from your real-world experience.

Well, for the benefit of all that would be tops.
For the rest pretty useless. It is what it is anyway.

A free flowing manifold with ditto (de)cat and (no)muffler wíll liberate some 10% of horses from doing an exhaust gas pushing task to push the car. That has already been dyno proven and shared:
Freeing up the exit wíll make the car quicker. The rest is personal priority.

And mind; a dyno does not come for free. Putting it on the dyno twíce to illuztrate what we know already and to have an a meaningless absoolute number seems a rather needless cost increase.
I ´measure´ the before and after on the same stretch of road with two power apps on the mobile phone. Or rather I did; the phone packed up and the current one is too old; is ok for telephone calls and whatsapp only; think it´s a keeper :-

Give me a break..."what we know already". :o
If I had suggested repeating the 'test' on the same piece of road you would have said no, the temperature/humidity/dewpoint/any other variable are not the same. :o

Quote from: SV-3 on September 14, 2020, 23:18Give me a break...

OK.

Quote from: treeroy on September 14, 2020, 16:35

Quote from: Ac1962 on September 14, 2020, 14:15I very recently had a Toyosports manifold fitted AND a sports cat to go with my Cobra silencer.
The difference i find is that the car is more lively under throttle especially at higher RPM - i havent and wont dyno it as im not bothered. For what it cost me for what i percieve i get from it is perfect - great noise - if you drive sensible its not loud but if you hoof it it does get some noise going. I have  K&N induction on it too so overall i think she breathes quite well compared to a standard set up - but like most i assume, keeping the filter clean and the MAF clean makes enough sense and difference. All this goes out the window though when you find a tunnel,,,,then you want the noise, i dont care who you are, the smile you get from the rasp and the pops and bangs is worth every penny.

If you dont mind me asking, where did you get your Toyosports manifold from?

here:
toyosports (UK) ltd Contact Us
www.toyosports.co.uk › contact-us-2-w
Home Contact Us Toyosports UK Ltd Candy House Crystal Drive Smethwick Birmingham B66 1QG Internet Sales and Enquires Tel 0844 693 2449 or

Quote from: Ac1962 on September 15, 2020, 16:59

Quote from: treeroy on September 14, 2020, 16:35

Quote from: Ac1962 on September 14, 2020, 14:15I very recently had a Toyosports manifold fitted AND a sports cat to go with my Cobra silencer.
The difference i find is that the car is more lively under throttle especially at higher RPM - i havent and wont dyno it as im not bothered. For what it cost me for what i percieve i get from it is perfect - great noise - if you drive sensible its not loud but if you hoof it it does get some noise going. I have  K&N induction on it too so overall i think she breathes quite well compared to a standard set up - but like most i assume, keeping the filter clean and the MAF clean makes enough sense and difference. All this goes out the window though when you find a tunnel,,,,then you want the noise, i dont care who you are, the smile you get from the rasp and the pops and bangs is worth every penny.

If you dont mind me asking, where did you get your Toyosports manifold from?

here:
toyosports (UK) ltd Contact Us
www.toyosports.co.uk › contact-us-2-w
Home Contact Us Toyosports UK Ltd Candy House Crystal Drive Smethwick Birmingham B66 1QG Internet Sales and Enquires Tel 0844 693 2449 or

The Toyosports website there has almost nothing on it. No Toyota parts. On their Ebay shop, the only Toyota manifolds are for Starlet, Yaris and GT86.

Do you have a link to the page of the part you bought?

Cheers!

I think toyo tend to fabricate/import a batch at a time and then list them so it could be they're either out of stock or not stocking them anymore.

@treeroy maybe this is of interest to you:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stainless-Race-Manifold-Header-for-Toyota-MR-2-MRS-Spyder-

Seller information
arden500 (38741  Feedback score: 38741)

Business seller information
Toyosports Ltd
Bob Li
Candy House
Crystal Drive
Smethwick
West Midlands
B66 1QG
United Kingdom
Phone:01212445553
Email:llxautoparts2017@gmail.com
VAT number:
GB 864870191


Can't get a direct link for you.

From Robs files he had the car dyno'd after every mod and the progression is as below, also after the Apexi ECU added was then remapped each time

Sports cat on its own won't do much, but has passed MOT every year and that's a proper MOT not a "friendly" one !

Zero manifold made the most increase but with a remap


148 BHP
Exhaust & Sports Cat

157 BHP
Apexi ECU
Crower Cams

167 BHP
Zero Manifold

171 BHP PPE Induction

Quote from: Joesson on September 15, 2020, 22:01@treeroy maybe this is of interest to you:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stainless-Race-Manifold-Header-for-Toyota-MR-2-MRS-Spyder-

Seller information
arden500 (38741  Feedback score: 38741)

Business seller information
Toyosports Ltd
Bob Li
Candy House
Crystal Drive
Smethwick
West Midlands
B66 1QG
United Kingdom
Phone:01212445553
Email:llxautoparts2017@gmail.com
VAT number:
GB 864870191


Can't get a direct link for you.

That's a broken link to me?

Quote from: Bernie on September 15, 2020, 22:50From Robs files he had the car dyno'd after every mod and the progression is as below, also after the Apexi ECU added was then remapped each time

Sports cat on its own won't do much, but has passed MOT every year and that's a proper MOT not a "friendly" one !

Zero manifold made the most increase but with a remap


148 BHP
Exhaust & Sports Cat

157 BHP
Apexi ECU
Crower Cams

167 BHP
Zero Manifold

171 BHP PPE Induction

Interesting thanks, was there as Dyno done before he started modding it ?  also do you know if all those were on the same Dyno ?

Quote from: thetyrant on September 16, 2020, 09:54

Quote from: Bernie on September 15, 2020, 22:50From Robs files he had the car dyno'd after every mod and the progression is as below, also after the Apexi ECU added was then remapped each time

Sports cat on its own won't do much, but has passed MOT every year and that's a proper MOT not a "friendly" one !

Zero manifold made the most increase but with a remap


148 BHP
Exhaust & Sports Cat

157 BHP
Apexi ECU
Crower Cams

167 BHP
Zero Manifold

171 BHP PPE Induction

Interesting thanks, was there as Dyno done before he started modding it ?  also do you know if all those were on the same Dyno ?

None before mods began first 2 were just dyno's at Hyper Sports and Racing, last 2 were at Noble Motorsport and remapped

Quote from: Call the midlife! on September 15, 2020, 22:56That's a broken link to me?

Here's the correct one: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stainless-Race-Manifold-Header-for-Toyota-MR-2-MRS-Spyder-1-8L-DOHC-ZZW30/254594984299?hash=item3b470b296b:g:ZIIAAOSwooVeurZC

I have one of these, it's fine for the cash: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STAINLESS-EXHAUST-MANIFOLD-SPORT-FOR-TOYOTA-MR2-MR-2-MRS-W30-ROADSTER-1-8-00-07/153568997571?fits=Model%3AMR+2&hash=item23c16cf0c3:g:tF0AAOSwsKFfKqbp

Quote from: AdamR28 on September 16, 2020, 12:42

Quote from: Call the midlife! on September 15, 2020, 22:56That's a broken link to me?

Here's the correct one: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stainless-Race-Manifold-Header-for-Toyota-MR-2-MRS-Spyder-1-8L-DOHC-ZZW30/254594984299?hash=item3b470b296b:g:ZIIAAOSwooVeurZC

I have one of these, it's fine for the cash: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STAINLESS-EXHAUST-MANIFOLD-SPORT-FOR-TOYOTA-MR2-MR-2-MRS-W30-ROADSTER-1-8-00-07/153568997571?fits=Model%3AMR+2&hash=item23c16cf0c3:g:tF0AAOSwsKFfKqbp

That's not a Toyosport one though.👍🏻

Indeed. My poor wording, meant the correct link to eBay that someone was trying to post up earlier!

Thanks for finding that - don't know why that doesn't come up when searching for MR2 Exhaust Manifold.

It says Yellow Speed but business info says Toyosports. So idk.

I would think that all of the manifolds are the same but I am just hesitant of buying an unbranded ebay product. Don't mind it on cheap throwaway stuff but feel a bit more reassured if it has a brand on it.

Quote from: treeroy on September 16, 2020, 15:04Thanks for finding that - don't know why that doesn't come up when searching for MR2 Exhaust Manifold.

It says Yellow Speed but business info says Toyosports. So idk.

I would think that all of the manifolds are the same but I am just hesitant of buying an unbranded ebay product. Don't mind it on cheap throwaway stuff but feel a bit more reassured if it has a brand on it.

In my browsing I have come across reviews of manifolds available in the USA, the obvious fault for one reviewer, who was on his second " Chinese header", was that the flange to cylinder head was not flat, similarly the cat flange and that meant the studs were not at 90 deg to the face and were difficult to align.

Quote from: AdamR28 on September 16, 2020, 12:42

Quote from: Call the midlife! on September 15, 2020, 22:56That's a broken link to me?

Here's the correct one: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stainless-Race-Manifold-Header-for-Toyota-MR-2-MRS-Spyder-1-8L-DOHC-ZZW30/254594984299?hash=item3b470b296b:g:ZIIAAOSwooVeurZC

I have one of these, it's fine for the cash: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STAINLESS-EXHAUST-MANIFOLD-SPORT-FOR-TOYOTA-MR2-MR-2-MRS-W30-ROADSTER-1-8-00-07/153568997571?fits=Model%3AMR+2&hash=item23c16cf0c3:g:tF0AAOSwsKFfKqbp

@AdamR28  the one you have, it works fine? Any issues fitting it? It just drops in no problems?
Thanks for sharing the link.

Three observations;
- you want a manifold gasket with pressed in rings around the ports
- think about whether you want to retain the OEM heatshield (thus need the mounting brackets)
- wrapping puts extra heat stress on the material/construction

Quote from: treeroy on September 16, 2020, 15:22@AdamR28  the one you have, it works fine? Any issues fitting it? It just drops in no problems?
Thanks for sharing the link.

No probs!

Yeah it works fine for now, bolted straight up without any issues. The manifold to centre section gasket face isn't the recessed one as recommended on here though, so perhaps only time will tell if I made a smart choice or not.

Quote from: treeroy on September 16, 2020, 15:04Thanks for finding that - don't know why that doesn't come up when searching for MR2 Exhaust Manifold.

It says Yellow Speed but business info says Toyosports. So idk.

I would think that all of the manifolds are the same but I am just hesitant of buying an unbranded ebay product. Don't mind it on cheap throwaway stuff but feel a bit more reassured if it has a brand on it.

I can't see it say Toyosport anywhere on the ebay page that links to, also Toyosport usually have a nameplate tacked onto the runners which I can't see in the images.

It's probably a perfectly serviceable manifold and probably comes from the same factory in China but the group experience and recommendations are on actual Toyosport badged manifolds, so if you go for the Yellow Speed one you might be the guinea pig.

Just reading through this thread again. I think I'm gonna forget about the sports cat. After all I bought this car because its cheap to run, and dont really need a sports cat.

I am still gonna get a backbox though because I just think the sound from the MR2 is crap and really lets down some of the driving experience.

Part of me thinks i might as well get the cat done at the same time as the backbox.

But as long as I get a good loud nice sound out of the backbox that should be enough for me. No point chasing power gains on the 1ZZ really.

Quote from: treeroy on September 17, 2020, 16:39Just reading through this thread again. I think I'm gonna forget about the sports cat. After all I bought this car because its cheap to run, and dont really need a sports cat.

I am still gonna get a backbox though because I just think the sound from the MR2 is crap and really lets down some of the driving experience.

Part of me thinks i might as well get the cat done at the same time as the backbox.

But as long as I get a good loud nice sound out of the backbox that should be enough for me. No point chasing power gains on the 1ZZ really.

Spot on. It's all about the feel and the noise :)

100% agreed. My DIY back box completely transformed the driving experience, for the better!

Just drill a few holes in the airbox and move on...

Quote from: Call the midlife! on September 17, 2020, 17:53Just drill a few holes in the airbox and move on...

Dude!

Quote from: AdamR28 on September 17, 2020, 17:30100% agreed. My DIY back box completely transformed the driving experience, for the better!

This one helped too

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/5B4AAOSwOxRb4woh/s-l1600.jpg)

Manifold, decat pipe, motorbike no-muffler; mán it is worth the swap for MoT hassle.

Don't need it, but really do like the look of it.

Quote from: Ardent on September 17, 2020, 21:27Don't need it, but really do like the look of it.

Would really unleash a few horses on the TTE Turbo IMHO.

Any more than the SP pipe it already has?

Quote from: Ardent on September 17, 2020, 21:32Any more than the SP pipe it already has?

AH no not likely thought it was standard TTE.
i'll get my hat.

Sabine has always had the SP down pipe.
But during your sabbatical.
The TTE box n pipes has been replaced with a malian system.

Quote from: 1979scotte on September 17, 2020, 21:30Would really unleash a few horses on the TTE Turbo IMHO.

As that has been given a break, I will limit myself to the soúnd :-)  A lot of owners drone about the drone of after market exhaust stuff. Mine does definitely nót drone; it also eliminated the whining sounds; even solved the luggage space issues!