Annoyingly the car failed on a broken front spring today. Right at the top and not easy to see.
Ordered 2 springs and one dust cover from TCB. He's out of stock on the dust covers so I'll do one side for now. Anywhere else I can get the cover?
Not compressed a car spring before(have done bikes) any tips?
Parts wise
Mr T own ebay shop
Local Mr T parts department
Mr2 Ben.
Mr T does not always mean more expensive.
Quote from: Newbie57 on October 20, 2020, 16:38Annoyingly the car failed on a broken front spring today. Right at the top and not easy to see.
Ordered 2 springs and one dust cover from TCB. He's out of stock on the dust covers so I'll do one side for now. Anywhere else I can get the cover?
Not compressed a car spring before(have done bikes) any tips?
Get some decent spring compressors that won't slip off. There's mucho stored energy in a compressed spring.
I wouldnt use MR2 ben for dust covers as I think they supply ones that fit rather than oem style. You would then have odd ones.
If you cant wait for TCB then may have to be MrT.
I bought some ebay compressors but not used them yet but one tip I heard was to zip tie them onto the springs to stop them coming off by accident.
I'll do one side and the strut as well must be passed it's best at 100k miles
These are the ones I went for;
(https://i.imgur.com/xnlnXm0.jpg)
You are not far from me so you are welcome to borrow them if you dont want to buy a set.
Thanks for the offer. Guy in the village has some too. Not sure what they are like. I'll get back to you
My set are very similar and I lived to write this post. But caution as mentioned is advised.
Quote from: Newbie57 on October 20, 2020, 17:35I'll do one side and the strut as well must be passed it's best at 100k miles
I believe you are correct, but that applies equally to the other side and so I do hope this one side fix is very temporary while awaiting the dust cover.
Aged 60 I bought my first pair of compressors too.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Coil-Spring-Compressor-Heavy-Duty-Tool-Suspension-Clamp-2pcs-Kit-With-Case/313264427812?hash=item48f003d324:g:YHYAAOSw7blfiV6y
Not from the above seller...but it's those. I was confident using them.
I cut some bicycle inner tube & put it around the new spring to stop the clamp from marking the powdercoating. It also reduces the likelihood of the clamp sliding on the spring.
One side is just temp. While I await more stock on the boot
Hello Newbie57
A couple of things that may help.
Crack the top nut whilst the strut is still in the car. Under the rubber cap cunningly disguised on the top of the strut(19mm)
Knuckle bolts x 2 19mm
ABS cable bracket 10mm
Brake line bracket 12mm
3 top mount nuts 12mm
If the old spring has snapped be careful as you remove the strut as when the spring loses its tension it will move to its new length with a twang. Make sure your hand isn't in the way. Rusty jaggy spring ends and all that.
Make sure the strut runs across the front of you when you compress and decompress the spring. Sounds noddy but you don't want to be in the way!!
After you compress the old spring slightly and undo the top nut all the way there will be a slight twang. Be careful!!
Make sure the flats at the bottom of the threads engage with the flats in the top plate before you put the little insulator and top mount on.
Make sure you put the bump stop and dust cover on before the above as you will do it all up take compressors off then realise like I did!!
If you think you have compressed the new spring enough you haven't.
Hope that helps pal
Hi, yes I agree with the above. Iv got cheapie so (£10) and was abit nervous but all went well (ford ka if I recall)
Cable tie just in case tho I didn't need to thankfully. Just be safe n take your time and all will be good.
Thanks for those tips Jam, I'm thinking of doing a refresh soon.
There's also a (slightly long winded) video how-to here where he does the springs: https://youtu.be/jzMQBpqm08g
Quote from: iffyT on October 21, 2020, 16:47Thanks for those tips Jam, I'm thinking of doing a refresh soon.
There's also a (slightly long winded) video how-to here where he does the springs: https://youtu.be/jzMQBpqm08g
No worries Iffy, I did all four the other week. Shop around for the bits. TCB were very helpful. Any questions let me know.
Cheers thanks, I shall no doubt have questions! Just out of interest, how much did all the bits set you back? Did you go with new struts or just inserts? Sorry for the derail
Also, can scratch that video folks... it's for a the mk2 MR2. I am an idiot.
The bit where he goes through using the spring compressors is still valid though I guess!
Quote from: iffyT on October 21, 2020, 17:54Cheers thanks, I shall no doubt have questions! Just out of interest, how much did all the bits set you back? Did you go with new struts or just inserts? Sorry for the derail
Also, can scratch that video folks... it's for a the mk2 MR2. I am an idiot.
The bit where he goes through using the spring compressors is still valid though I guess!
I had a look at it nevertheless, it also led to another YouTube link specifically for a mk3 BUT, not a very professional approach in what he actually did. The guy suggested taking the assembly to a garage for removing and refitting the spring, otherwise using three compressors, that would give a theoretical better compression, but I found two did the job and have not seen them sold in sets of three. He was almost paranoid about the compressors slipping off and actually buried the assembly in sandy ground so that it wouldn't get him if it came apart.
An observation, the video of the use of a socket and wrench showed a one handed usage, often resulting in the socket slipping off as pressure is applied and helping round off the hex head. Whenever possible I always cup or hold the socket in my left hand and apply pressure to the socket to keep it in place before applying pressure with the right hand.
Sounds like a very shoddy work through there so I'm not even going to look. If someone can't use a socket and buries stuff in sand then I loose all interest. To do anything you need confidence, sometimes miss placed but we all start with gusto.
My motto....failing to prepare is preparing to fail.
Taken me a while to get round to it but one shock is off now. The ABS sensor nut snapped, but other than that no big issues. Just have to get a new one.
The top mount bearing is a bit not notchy. Looked on line tonight seems to be a shortage of these. Any suggestions as to who might have some?
Quote from: Newbie57 on November 22, 2020, 17:38Taken me a while to get round to it but one shock is off now. The ABS sensor nut snapped, but other than that no big issues. Just have to get a new one.
The top mount bearing is a bit not notchy. Looked on line tonight seems to be a shortage of these. Any suggestions as to who might have some?
I don't recall anyone having replaced these bearings and iirc I have read that they are "not replaceable". I have seen ads for the complete top mount, but of course more costly than a bearing. It may be worth pursuing further as the bearing wasn't born in the mount.
PS first call could be to TCB on here.
For guidance Front top mount £59 each from MR2 Ben
@Newbie57 Hi
KYB SM5215 top mounts (front) The bearing is sealed as opposed to the originals. Have a look on eBay. Think I paid £60 for the pair.
Quote from: Jamtastic on November 23, 2020, 15:17KYB SM5215 top mounts (front) The bearing is sealed as opposed to the originals. Have a look on eBay. Think I paid £60 for the pair.
That's interesting. I saw someone suggesting that a different Toyota model also fitted, but this is the first I've seen of someone having fitted them. How did you know they'd fit?
I fitted Japanparts RU-2320 which are sealed and were labelled specifically for the MR2. Cost me about £50 for the pair.
Fairly sure someone fitted a very similar part number but the parts catalogue returned them as Avensis?
Quote from: Gaz mr-s on November 23, 2020, 16:36Quote from: Jamtastic on November 23, 2020, 15:17KYB SM5215 top mounts (front) The bearing is sealed as opposed to the originals. Have a look on eBay. Think I paid £60 for the pair.
That's interesting. I saw someone suggesting that a different Toyota model also fitted, but this is the first I've seen of someone having fitted them. How did you know they'd fit?
Hi Gaz
I got the 5215 number from a post on here somewhere. Sorry I don't have a link. The eBay listing had a list of compatible part numbers which I X-reffed to the epc and ToyoDiy. I obviously physically compared them as well. Only difference is the fact the bearing is sealed which is a bonus.
As to another Toyota model fitting it's quite possible as it's a parts bin of a car and it's not cost effective for Toyota to have too many bespoke parts on every model they make.
The epc will give you the diagram and the prefix of the part number. ToyoDiy will give the prefix and suffix but no diagram. I just jump between the two websites.
Are you planning a refresh? If you need any help just ask. In fact I'll get all the stuff together and post it anyway.
@ Jamtastic No just an interested reader. I've already done mine. Using the KYB part number & looking at the ebay listings it wqas easy to see the commonality of the Toyota part number. And a sealed bearing... much more sensible.
The cheapest ebay listing (Febi) has 15% off for two. Will ebay do another 10/15/20% off this week....?
Finally ordered 2 KYB parts off eBay. £62 for the pair delivered. A week to get here as the mr2 will sit on stands for a while
Now I just need to get another dust cover.
Long delay. Christmas got in the way. I have now bought all the parts to have a complete new shock. I built it up only to find that the KYB SM 5215 top mount doesn't fit. The PCD is right but the studs are a bigger diameter 🤬
One side on now and the other shock built up. Turned the car around in the garage ready for the other side.
2005 Mr2 Mk3 facelift
My springs were shot and absorbers leaking (62k miles). Spent ages researching where to buy and ended up doing a big exercise comparing the places with stock against each other. Wanted to keep to standard setup.
Here's where I bought.
Fronts
Buycarparts.com
Position/ Article № / Description / Quantity / Price per unit £ Total price £
1. SM0059 Top Strut Mounting 2 £ 18,09 £ 36,18
2. AK-735303 Dust Cover Kit
shock absorber 1 £ 40,43 £ 40,43
3. TSD-002 Mounting, shock
absorbers 2 £ 3,78 £ 7,56
4. 35301 Coil Spring 2 £ 34,51 £ 69,02
5. Safe Order 1 £ 3,95 £ 3,95
Subtotal: £ 153,19
Delivery: £ 0,00
incl. 20% VAT £ 26,19
Total amount: £157.14
MR2Ben.co.uk
1 Front suspension Spring top cup seat Toyota MR2 mk3 1999-2007 (Amount: x2) x 1 £50.12
2 KYB Front Suspension Shock Absorber Toyota MR2 mk3 1999-2007 (Pair Front) x 1 £158.00
3 Front spring top cup insulator Toyota MR-S MR2 mk3 1999-2007 (Amount:Pair) x 1 £35.64
Shipping £15
Total £258.76
Rears
Buycarparts.com
Position / Article № Description Quantity Price per unit £ Total price £
1. SM5799 Top Strut Mounting 2 £ 31,58 £ 63,16
2. GOM-2724 Top Strut Mounting 2 £ 3,61 £ 7,22
3. 2241948 Coil Spring 2 £ 48,60 £ 97,20
4. Safe Order 1 £ 3,95 £ 3,95
Subtotal: £ 167,58
Delivery: £ 0,00
incl. 20% VAT £ 28,59
Total amount: £ 171,53
MR2Ben.co.uk
1 KYB Rear Suspension Shock Absorber Toyota MR2 mk3 1999-2007 (Pair) x 1 £138.00
2 Suspension Shock Boot Dust covers & bump stops Toyota MR2 mk3 1.8L 1999-2007 (Rear
pair) x 1 £25
Shipping £15
Total £178
Grand total £765.43.
Now, I sure someone will pop up on here and say "wow man, could have got that cheaper elsewhere/could have got coilovers etc etc blah blah blah", but that's not the point of this post ('cos someone will ALWAYS find it cheaper somewhere else and I "could" have phone around a bit more but frankly, it was Christmas and I couldn't be bothered!)
There's a lot of debate about the correct bits/ part numbers etc etc, so this was just to help anyone going down the same road.
It drives like a dream now by the way.
Next project, replace front wishbones complete, and all rear rods complete with new bolts etc, front & rear anti roll bars (from whiteline in UK (ships from Zeder copt) because the shipping for these outsize items added nearly £200 for the shipping from Japan!).
Good post.
And the take away
It drives like a dream now by the way
Appreciated.
For your future info, webite affiliate TCB sell genuine Toyota parts cheaper than Toyota do, & MR2Ben.... https://www.tcbparts.co.uk/
Both companies also sell pattern stuff. (but guess who's cheaper..)
Good to hear it's transformed your car.
Given more time/motivation I "may" have also shopped around even more and contacted TCB - their reputation on here is excellent, but it didn't suit me at the time. Perhaps next time.
Hopefully, the parts info provided will help any who follow as far as part numbers is concerned, and the suggestion of TCB will be useful in their hunt for availability/ price comparison.
Both sides are now done!😀. The other top mount wasn't notchy but who knows for how long. I'll have a think about the rear struts now. When I do them I'll just buy the complete set of parts and build the shock off the car. Seems little point in trying to reuse anything.
Had a look at the power steering fluid. Completely black, so that's the next job. How much fluid do you need? 1 or 2 litres?
I bought 2 ltr, just in case, but 1 was plenty....
I flushed two litres through.
What fluid are people using?
I put Ravenol EPSF in mine.
I didnt flush it, just took out what I could and 1 ltr was fine if you are only doing that.
Bit of discussion about it here;
https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=68211.0
Quote from: Newbie57 on February 22, 2021, 11:05What fluid are people using?
Now that is an interesting question.
I read quite a lot on here and the name that comes up most is Ravenol.
But it has been said that this fluid change is done so rarely that why not use Toyota's own.
But then I've also read that some Mr T's outlets fob the unwary off with automatic transmission fluid instead of EPSF.
But then again I have read that is no longer available.
So that is the sum of my knowledge, far from definitive, but let's see "what the team the team thinks".
Not too many on here will remember that phrase!
I imagine mine could do with doing.
And if I do get round to it. I will likely go the Mr T route. As above. Likely to be a one off. So why not.
Is it like suspension, you don't realise how bad something is until until you change it.
As far as I am aware, all is good. But what benefits would fresh fluid bring?
Is it a job, a muppet like me could do.
Toyota stuff £45.99/Ltre. Hopefully 1 is enough
Quote from: Newbie57 on February 22, 2021, 12:59Toyota stuff £45.99/Ltre. Hopefully 1 is enough
That's interesting. The reason peeps have been using Ravenol was as much to do with Toyota discontinuing their own EHPS (rather than cost). Is it definitely now available?
I think the system takes 1 litre-ish but you need more than this if you are flushing the system out.
Above video details the process.
Well the Ravenol is £12.99 on their website although they quote 08886-01206 when the Toyota number is 08886-81250. Still £26 vs £90 for 2 litres
I've had the Ravenol in mine for about three years, with no adverse effect.
Whether or not it's available the Toyota price is ridiculous.
On the MR2 sites I look at most people have been using this..... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GEAR-OIL-TOTAL-FLUIDE-DA-1L/283440027011?epid=2302357667&hash=item41fe579583:g:N5UAAOSw4tNgLp2t
There used to be several sellers on ebay & on Amazon for about £17. Two years ago apparently it was about £10 for a litre.. Of late in the UK it was £20, but it seems like it's in short supply. Covid or Brexit?
On the above ebay listing there is a Peugeot 'quality standard' & this stuff has the same code......
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x1L-MANNOL-LDS-Hydraulic-Fluid-Synthetic-PSA-S71-2710-Citroen-Peugeot/203017561361
If existing oil is black, changing it won't make a huge colour difference, but I read recently that removing the assembly & giving it a good clean gets lots of gunge out. There is description within the forum as to how to do the basic fluid change.
Quote from: Carolyn on February 22, 2021, 13:57I've had the Ravenol in mine for about three years, with no adverse effect.
That's the qualified answer I've been waiting for.
Good enough for C good enough for me.
Quote from: Ardent on February 22, 2021, 12:41I imagine mine could do with doing.
And if I do get round to it. I will likely go the Mr T route. As above. Likely to be a one off. So why not.
Is it like suspension, you don't realise how bad something is until until you change it.
As far as I am aware, all is good. But what benefits would fresh fluid bring?
Is it a job, a muppet like me could do.
There are how to's on here and on YouTube to help with the the method and you have mentioned your other spannering on here so all will be well.
As to the fluid of choice I just got my reference, see above.
The last time I bought MrT fluid (coolant) the radiator leaked, and I lost some, replaced the rad. and when that was out of warranty it blew a plug and lost it all. So now I 'm in the camp of a good alternative will do. MrT does not make the fluids for his cars.
How many on here use MrT's oil? (I am aware some me do and I have once) but Toyota racing use Mobil!
Rhys reported Ravenol lasted 2years for him and ate the seals. Any more long term experience?
@Gaz mr-s gave us a link to a Mannol product, looking at the product info I noticed:
"
Prolongs fluid replacement interval up to 5 years or 200,000 km."Opps! My 2 is still on OE fluid at 54K!!
My guess is there are a few with even higher mileage .
Quote from: Newbie57 on February 22, 2021, 16:12Rhys reported Ravenol lasted 2years for him and ate the seals. Any more long term experience?
Did he report that on here?
Chassis on mine has nearly 100k miles. Probably on the original fill
Quote from: Joesson on February 22, 2021, 16:14Quote from: Newbie57 on February 22, 2021, 16:12Rhys reported Ravenol lasted 2years for him and ate the seals. Any more long term experience?
Did he report that on here?
Dont know I have been chatting to him on line
Incompatible fluids will damage seals, as will flushing / cleaning with an incompatible fluid. As will prolonged usage.
https://www.spyderchat.com/threads/testing-the-oem-toyota-eh-ps-fluid.148522/
Some discussion on spyder chat
Quote from: Joesson on February 22, 2021, 16:14Quote from: Newbie57 on February 22, 2021, 16:12Rhys reported Ravenol lasted 2years for him and ate the seals. Any more long term experience?
Did he report that on here?
Wasn't that related to the Ravenol fluid for the SMT system? Seems to be major issue with that report here and elsewhere.
Quote from: ManInDandism on February 22, 2021, 17:12Quote from: Joesson on February 22, 2021, 16:14Quote from: Newbie57 on February 22, 2021, 16:12Rhys reported Ravenol lasted 2years for him and ate the seals. Any more long term experience?
Did he report that on here?
Wasn't that related to the Ravenol fluid for the SMT system? Seems to be major issue with that report here and elsewhere.
No this was PAS.
Quote from: Newbie57 on February 22, 2021, 17:22Quote from: ManInDandism on February 22, 2021, 17:12Quote from: Joesson on February 22, 2021, 16:14Quote from: Newbie57 on February 22, 2021, 16:12Rhys reported Ravenol lasted 2years for him and ate the seals. Any more long term experience?
Did he report that on here?
Wasn't that related to the Ravenol fluid for the SMT system? Seems to be major issue with that report here and elsewhere.
No this was PAS.
-
I am pretty sure that it was SMT.
Has
@Dev got any opinions?
Quote from: 1979scotte on February 22, 2021, 18:21Has @Dev got any opinions?
I remember that link it was for PS fluid. Good information and it was determined Nissan E-PSF Electric Power Steering Fluid fluid is a good choice based on analysis.
I would still try to find the Toyota PS even if its expensive. You don't change your PS fluid that often and it lasts a very long time. If anything the PS fluid is not the failure point on the PS pump. I believe its accumulated dust and the windings going out eventually. With most motors of this type the pump motor has a life.
If you people only knew how much better it is to take the PS pump out of the circuit and go manual.
Most people think its the same as disabling the pump which is too hard but taking the pump out and connecting the lines feels exactly like a short ratio manual rack. The feedback you get from the steering wheel is tremendous, feels like a different car.
With my experience of materials compatibility issues when developing our rocket engines, I can attest that a fluid which eats seals will do it in a lot less than the three years that my power steering pump has endured with Ravenol EPS fluid in it.
Whatever the story is behind the issue raised - I doubt it is as simple as stated.
Carolyn, I wasn't doubting you. I worked in the seal industry for many years. We were doing testing for the ZETEC engine crankshaft seals. Just before production start the oil company changed the additive package without Fords or our knowledge. Suddenly we had multiple failures. You can imagine the panic and pressure. It was 2 weeks before the oil company owned up.
Just one thing I want to amend. The PS pump will fail if you use incompatible fluid.
There are other electro hydraulic fluids on the market that list compatibility with the Toyota fluid and so far haven't shown to cause any failure to the system.
There have been anecdotal reports where the dealer topped off the fluid with normal power steering fluid when the car was under warranty and the pumps went out in a matter of weeks or months.
Quote from: Newbie57 on February 22, 2021, 19:50Carolyn, I wasn't doubting you. I worked in the seal industry for many years. We were doing testing for the ZETEC engine crankshaft seals. Just before production start the oil company changed the additive package without Fords or our knowledge. Suddenly we had multiple failures. You can imagine the panic and pressure. It was 2 weeks before the oil company owned up.
This sort of thing happens, rarely but when it does its expensive. Usually someone that wants to cut corners to save money or they try to make one universal fluid to fill the needs of multiple applications.
A good example is GL5 transmission fluid that claims GL4 backwards compatibility but ended up eating the yellow metals in older transmissions because of the sulfur additives.
I like to stick to original fluid whenever possible because the manufactures formulations are often times better with no compromises for the kind of materials that are used.
Quote from: Dev on February 22, 2021, 18:47Quote from: 1979scotte on February 22, 2021, 18:21Has @Dev got any opinions?
I remember that link it was for PS fluid. Good information and it was determined was Nissan E-PSF Electric Power Steering Fluid fluid was a good choice based on analysis.
I would still try to find the Toyota PS even if its expensive. You don't change your PS fluid that often and it lasts a very long time. If anything the PS fluid is not the failure point on the PS pump. I believe its accumulated dust and the windings going out eventually. With most motors of this type the pump motor has a life.
If you people only knew how much better it is to take the PS pump out of the circuit and go manual.
Most people think its the same as disabling the pump which is too hard but taking the pump out and connecting the lines feels exactly like a short ratio manual rack. The feedback you get from the steering wheel is tremendous, feels like a different car.
I thought that the whole reason behind the debate was that Toyota PS is/was discontinued meaning that you wouldn't be able to find it regardless of how much it cost. So it was about trying to find an adequate replacement.
They have an 81250 p/n that is for the MR2. Dealer gave me a price and delivery
Quote from: ManInDandism on February 22, 2021, 20:39Quote from: Dev on February 22, 2021, 18:47Quote from: 1979scotte on February 22, 2021, 18:21Has @Dev got any opinions?
I remember that link it was for PS fluid. Good information and it was determined was Nissan E-PSF Electric Power Steering Fluid fluid was a good choice based on analysis.
I would still try to find the Toyota PS even if its expensive. You don't change your PS fluid that often and it lasts a very long time. If anything the PS fluid is not the failure point on the PS pump. I believe its accumulated dust and the windings going out eventually. With most motors of this type the pump motor has a life.
If you people only knew how much better it is to take the PS pump out of the circuit and go manual.
Most people think its the same as disabling the pump which is too hard but taking the pump out and connecting the lines feels exactly like a short ratio manual rack. The feedback you get from the steering wheel is tremendous, feels like a different car.
I thought that the whole reason behind the debate was that Toyota PS is/was discontinued meaning that you wouldn't be able to find it regardless of how much it cost. So it was about trying to find an adequate replacement.
Every now and then the stuff shows up on EBay or somewhere in the Middle East with shipping.
I have seen warehouses clear out their forgotten inventory and some of it shows up from time to time.
I would pay though the nose if it was available and sell the other half that to a member to recuperate costs. If not I would take a chance on the alternatives as a last resort. What actually happened in the interim is some people wanted to save money so they used alternative stuff.
However some fluid substitutions turned out to be a disaster for the SMT guys that tried to substitute with fluids that claimed compatibility but ended up ruining their units.
Quote from: ManInDandism
Wasn't that related to the Ravenol fluid for the SMT system? Seems to be major issue with that report here and elsewhere.
/quote]
I don't know who, but D.Sloan does of a guy who's SMT was ruined by the Ravenol. Ravenol denied it.
Quote from: Newbie57 on February 22, 2021, 16:59https://www.spyderchat.com/threads/testing-the-oem-toyota-eh-ps-fluid.148522/
Some discussion on spyder chat
Those discussions amounted to 7 "pages" of debate and reports of a Spyderchat Member funded analysis of the OE fluid and various considered options. There was a lot of toing and froing but to my reading the end result was that Toyota we're no longer interested but that if old stock could be found then use it.
The alternatives were found to be a Nissan branded fluid and a fluid produced by Ravenol.
No clarity from Nissan about usage on Toyota by Nissan, understandable.
Ravenol claimed compatibility with Toyota and Nissan spec fluids.
The "problem" with Ravenol product was related to SMT fluid not the steering pump fluid.
My "thoughts" align with
@Carolyn 's experience, that is Ravenol.
Quote from: Gaz mr-s on February 22, 2021, 22:09Quote from: ManInDandism
Wasn't that related to the Ravenol fluid for the SMT system? Seems to be major issue with that report here and elsewhere.
/quote]
I don't know who, but D.Sloan does of a guy who's SMT was ruined by the Ravenol. Ravenol denied it.
There is a guy on my side (cyclehead) that has tested various fluids on the SMT seals. What he found out is Ravenol made them swell.
I believe some people had success with DOT4 fluid but I don't really know as the first thing I would do is get it converted to manual. I know a member that has a very low millage SMT that sat in his garage for a long time where the SMT pump failed. Time is what eventually destroys everything especially stuff that use rubber seals.
If we have a problem with this it is with Toyota. It was reported on Spyderchat that Toyota USA had been approached on the subject but there was no helpful response.
Interestingly we do have the option of "converting" the system to unassisted as
@Dev and
@Petrus have.
I'm sure that I am not the only one on here that started driving before PAS was a thing and " elderly" as I am I believe I could still cope with the effort on a 2.
Not sure of the legality / MOT compliance in the UK but I do know that the PAS system can't be seen without removing the covers.
PS
This would still require the presence of fluid but there would not be a ( expensive) pump to replace.
This and previous posts have got me thinking. Do I? Don't I?
That, and in a chilligirl thread sidetrack manner, I would really like a smaller steering wheel.
Quote from: Ardent on February 22, 2021, 22:51This and previous posts have got me thinking. Do I? Do I not?
That, and in a chilligirl thread sidetrack manner, I would really like a smaller steering wheel.
I am aware that
@Petrus has removed the steering pump and fitted an aftermarket steering wheel. The diameter of the wheel I know not. He may be able to advise on the additional steering effort with his particular arrangement.
I do recall driving a 60's Anglia, in period, with a very small steering wheel and found that not to my liking.
Quote from: Joesson on February 22, 2021, 22:31Interestingly we do have the option of "converting" the system to unassisted as @Dev and @Petrus have.
I'm sure that I am not the only one on here that started driving before PAS was a thing and " elderly" as I am I believe I could still cope with the effort on a 2.
Not sure of the legality / MOT compliance in the UK but I do know that the PAS system can't be seen without removing the covers.
PS
This would still require the presence of fluid but there would not be a ( expensive) pump to replace.
What some people do is remove the rack, drain the fluid and grease the rack and pinion. I didn't think there was a need for it. Just looping the lines has done well over 10 years with the original fluid. No leaks. You just need to keep a pocket of air in the lines so its compressible. Makes it easy to turn that I often forget its manual now. The most interesting thing about it is, it makes the car feel more stable at speed because whatever bump it hits feels dampened with less oscillations. Straight is straight no wondering.
If it was a different car that had the weight of the engine over the front wheels it might be an issue but considering how light the car is, its not that bad and it feels more gokart like.
If you keep your car long enough this might be the fait of all these cars once the PS pump goes out.
Quote from: Joesson on February 22, 2021, 23:02Quote from: Ardent on February 22, 2021, 22:51This and previous posts have got me thinking. Do I? Do I not?
That, and in a chilligirl thread sidetrack manner, I would really like a smaller steering wheel.
I am aware that @Petrus has removed the steering pump and fitted an aftermarket steering wheel. The diameter of the wheel I know not. He may be able to advise on the additional steering effort with his particular arrangement.
I do recall driving a 60's Anglia, in period, with a very small steering wheel and found that not to my liking.
Indeed he has.
Have done some research of late, and stepped back. As much as I like the look of a wooden wheel, that is secondary to it being smalller. A stock Mr T wheel would be fine if smaller. The problem (for me) seems to be, to go smaller, it results in moving closer. Not what I want.
I am happy to forgo the exploding bag in the face. When you sit as close to the wheel as I do. An airbag takes on a risk of it's own.
An inter-changeable Mr T wheel, but smaller, would be great.
The PAS delete comes a bit further down the line. But as things stand.
If a long limbed 60+ Dutch man can turn the his non PAS steering wheel.
I will wager my Short limbed, English, Biceps, triceps, deltoids, pectorals, trapezius and abdominals will be up to the job.
Quote from: Ardent on February 22, 2021, 23:49Quote from: Joesson on February 22, 2021, 23:02Quote from: Ardent on February 22, 2021, 22:51This and previous posts have got me thinking. Do I? Do I not?
That, and in a chilligirl thread sidetrack manner, I would really like a smaller steering wheel.
I am aware that @Petrus has removed the steering pump and fitted an aftermarket steering wheel. The diameter of the wheel I know not. He may be able to advise on the additional steering effort with his particular arrangement.
I do recall driving a 60's Anglia, in period, with a very small steering wheel and found that not to my liking.
Indeed he has.
Have done some research of late, and stepped back. As much as I like the look of a wooden wheel, that is secondary to it being smalller. A stock Mr T wheel would be fine if smaller. The problem (for me) seems to be, to go smaller, it results in moving closer. Not what I want.
I am happy to forgo the exploding bag in the face. When you sit as close to the wheel as I do. An airbag takes on a risk of it's own.
An inter-changeable Mr T wheel, but smaller, would be great.
The PAS delete comes a bit further down the line. But as things stand.
If a long limbed 60+ Dutch man can turn the his non PAS steering wheel.
I will wager my Short limbed, English, Biceps, triceps, deltoids, pectorals, trapezius and abdominals will be up to the job.
I have no doubt you have ample strength for the task.
My son son just turned 19 and he has learned to drive in the Volvo 340 he bought himself; no power steering ;-)
On the MR2 though it is a bit of a running gag with my gfs that mine has an afficient anti theft feature; no power steering.
The reduction on the steering box is for strong assistence and deleting that makes for quite a difference which from standstill is like a steering lock.
Once you get the trick; to have the wheel rolling even the slightest bit it is quite ok. For old timers and throw backs :-)
No, seriously, it is like DEv observes an improvement but when parking real heavy.
The stering wheel I fitted is 10mm lárger than OEM and has an ever so slightly thinner wooden rim.
As a not-so-strong skinny female, I like the power steering very much. I can see the attraction of deleting it, but it's not an option for me. (I have a spare, which I've refurbished, sitting on the shelf for when 'that day' comes.
Quote from: Petrus on February 23, 2021, 08:26Once you get the trick; to have the wheel rolling even the slightest bit it is quite ok.
I apply that even with PAS. In any vehicle.
Quote from: Ardent on February 23, 2021, 09:34Quote from: Petrus on February 23, 2021, 08:26Once you get the trick; to have the wheel rolling even the slightest bit it is quite ok.
I apply that even with PAS. In any vehicle.
At Heathrow one time waiting to collect my boss I got into conversation with a RR chauffeur. RR 's are often driven by chauffeur's because if you leave one parked just anywhere bits are removed and what is left is vandalised. He also spoke of the RR chauffeur driving course where they teach that the wheels must be rolling before the steering wheel is turned. While the PAS is "adequate" for the task the RR is a heavy vehicle and the tyres are costly and parking one incorrectly can scrub the treads off the tyres and they ain't cheap!
Many years ago I had a consul granada V6 (no power steering) to which I fitted a 12" wheel. Quite a workout.
Wouldnt dream of doing that these days!
Quote from: Ardent on February 23, 2021, 09:34Quote from: Petrus on February 23, 2021, 08:26Once you get the trick; to have the wheel rolling even the slightest bit it is quite ok.
I apply that even with PAS. In any vehicle.
Better for the rubber and all the parts involved. Again a thing of old timers and throw backs ;-)
Same thing not clonking the power steering to the stop when manouvring.
Point is that the p.a.s. delete is imo a sérious upgrade for the Spyder if your priority is feeling through the twisties. For commuting and city use best not.
Quote from: Ardent on February 22, 2021, 22:51This and previous posts have got me thinking. Do I? Don't I?
That, and in a chilligirl thread sidetrack manner, I would really like a smaller steering wheel.
It involves deleting the explosive bag(s).
As a bonus it míght be an opportunity to adjust the hight of the steering to suit individual preference/measure.
I have the Sparco San Remo grip shape 25/25 mm., diameter 355 mm. on a Momo collapseble boss.
Word of caution; be very moderate in going smaller. Even 20 mm. feels markedly smaller. If I´d kept the p.a.s. I would have gone 330 mm., not too thick.
Oh and best stay away from QD bosses but if you múst it is paramount that you test assemble the set at the buyers to MEASURE the combined hight.
On the subject of the correct p/s fluid, Oilman posting for Opie Oils on here back in 2012 posted as follows:-
I've checked all our databases and it seems that your cars specifically need the Toyota stuff. They don't say why it needs the Toyota stuff, but I can't recommned anything else.
Cheers
Tim
Quote from: Petrus on February 23, 2021, 12:11Quote from: Ardent on February 23, 2021, 09:34Quote from: Petrus on February 23, 2021, 08:26Once you get the trick; to have the wheel rolling even the slightest bit it is quite ok.
I apply that even with PAS. In any vehicle.
Better for the rubber and all the parts involved. Again a thing of old timers and throw backs ;-)
Same thing not clonking the power steering to the stop when manouvring.
Point is that the p.a.s. delete is imo a sérious upgrade for the Spyder if your priority is feeling through the twisties. For commuting and city use best not.
Like all manual rack cars you need just a light amount of movement to turn the wheel and it only comes into play when parking in a tight spot. Once you get use it, it becomes second nature that you don't realize you are conscious of it.
Most serious cars of an era gone by were manual rack and it was no big deal, Both men and women just got use to it and the most serious enthusiasts prefer it given the option because of the raw connection. I believe Enzo himself didn't want sissy glamor boys driving his cars because they complained that it was too hard to drive but the company eventually added all of those comforts to appeal to a larger audience.
I understand why people love the drive of these vintage cars and even the manufactures understand this as they have put in reduction gears for the electric racks to try and have it both ways but its still not the same feel.
If you keep your car long enough you will eventually have this option and only then you will understand how over boosted the PS is in this car.
Quote from: Petrus on February 23, 2021, 12:32Word of caution; be very moderate in going smaller. Even 20 mm. feels markedly smaller. If I´d kept the p.a.s. I would have gone 330 mm., not too thick.
Oh and best stay away from QD bosses but if you múst it is paramount that you test assemble the set at the buyers to MEASURE the combined hight.
20mm would be nice.
Just the whole boss phaff thing that puts me off. I would be content if everything else remained in the same plane. Just a smaller diameter.
Fluid changed now. Used Ravenol. It's much cleaner but not totally clear. Used about 1.5 litre.
MOT on Wednesday. 😀
Mot passed. 👍
VW CC clutch hydraulics gone now and dual mass flywheel on bottom tolerance. 😩