Evening everybody, Ive just bought a 2005 MR2 roadster. It has a few faults that need sorting but looking good so far. The main problem i have is that the power steering is not working. the fluid in the resevoir is black and i have got hold of some fresh to change it out. However, the motor itself is not working. im planning to take the pump off clean it out and try to get it working on the bench but need to know which terminals i should apply the 12 volts to to see if the motor will turn ? i will also remove the bottom of the pump and clean out any dust that can acumulate in the motor. any hints or tips welcome ;)
Sorry, can't help you with testing it, but just to make sure you got the correct type fluid.....
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Total-Fluide-Synthetic-Electro-Hydraulic-fluid/dp/B006XGDKPC
I've got some Ravenol E-psf should be OK I think. Hss to be better than what's in there now 😊
Not too many reports on here of ps pump failure. If you have just bought the car maybe the seller should be fixing it?
I thought the car was pretty much undriveable in that condition.
Quote from: Bad Dog on November 24, 2020, 22:04I've got some Ravenol E-psf should be OK I think. Hss to be better than what's in there now 😊
Wouldn't be the first pump to fail because the fluid is changed for the wrong stuff.
I had to change the pump on my 2000 plate last year just stopped for no apparent reason.
Quote from: Bad Dog on November 24, 2020, 22:04I've got some Ravenol E-psf should be OK I think. Hss to be better than what's in there now 😊
Yes, correct type.
Quote from: 1979scotte on November 24, 2020, 22:29Quote from: Bad Dog on November 24, 2020, 22:04I've got some Ravenol E-psf should be OK I think. Hss to be better than what's in there now 😊
Wouldn't be the first pump to fail because the fluid is changed for the wrong stuff.
I had to change the pump on my 2000 plate last year just stopped for no apparent reason.
Is the car driveable if the pump stops?
Quote from: Joesson on November 24, 2020, 22:44Quote from: 1979scotte on November 24, 2020, 22:29Quote from: Bad Dog on November 24, 2020, 22:04I've got some Ravenol E-psf should be OK I think. Hss to be better than what's in there now 😊
Wouldn't be the first pump to fail because the fluid is changed for the wrong stuff.
I had to change the pump on my 2000 plate last year just stopped for no apparent reason.
Is the car driveable if the pump stops?
Yes.
Its not easy though
Quote from: 1979scotte on November 24, 2020, 22:53Quote from: Joesson on November 24, 2020, 22:44Quote from: 1979scotte on November 24, 2020, 22:29Quote from: Bad Dog on November 24, 2020, 22:04I've got some Ravenol E-psf should be OK I think. Hss to be better than what's in there now 😊
Wouldn't be the first pump to fail because the fluid is changed for the wrong stuff.
I had to change the pump on my 2000 plate last year just stopped for no apparent reason.
Is the car driveable if the pump stops?
Yes.
Its not easy though
Our Spanish mate Petrus won't be having that problem!
Mine stopped working until the car had been driven for some while and restarted when it would start working again and it turned out that I had a weep from a connection and the fluid had got too low until it was hot and expanded.
I fitted a new connector and did a simple flush by sucking out what I could from the top and then adding ravenol and it started working again.
Yep, horrible to drive like that!
Quote from: Joesson on November 24, 2020, 22:24Not too many reports on here of ps pump failure. If you have just bought the car maybe the seller should be fixing it?
I knew there was an issue when I bought it but got a good deal so I'll sort it
Very often it can be brought back to life my taking the 'can' off and exposing the motor. Then a good blow-out with an airline and very light lube. This can be done on the car.
Crap tends to build up inside over time.
Here is a link that may help
https://www.spyderchat.com/threads/ps-light-power-steering-problems-try-this.50843/page-2#post-1226761 (https://www.spyderchat.com/threads/ps-light-power-steering-problems-try-this.50843/page-2#post-1226761)
One thing not mentioned is to mark the "can" (motor housing) orientation before you remove it. With 3 bolts, it is possible to get the housing back on wrong. In one position, the pump will run backwards, in another it will run slowly and overheat. There is only one position that is correct.
Quote from: Beachbum957 on November 25, 2020, 13:01Here is a link that may help
https://www.spyderchat.com/threads/ps-light-power-steering-problems-try-this.50843/page-2#post-1226761 (https://www.spyderchat.com/threads/ps-light-power-steering-problems-try-this.50843/page-2#post-1226761)
One thing not mentioned is to mark the "can" (motor housing) orientation before you remove it. With 3 bolts, it is possible to get the housing back on wrong. In one position, the pump will run backwards, in another it will run slowly and overheat. There is only one position that is correct.
Oooooo good to know, I'm going to have a go at this on Friday 😉
Quote from: Carolyn on November 25, 2020, 11:14Very often it can be brought back to life my taking the 'can' off and exposing the motor. Then a good blow-out with an airline and very light lube. This can be done on the car.
Crap tends to build up inside over time.
What would constitute a light lube ?
Quote from: Bad Dog on November 26, 2020, 13:54Quote from: Carolyn on November 25, 2020, 11:14Very often it can be brought back to life my taking the 'can' off and exposing the motor. Then a good blow-out with an airline and very light lube. This can be done on the car.
Crap tends to build up inside over time.
What would constitute a light lube ?
Certainly not a spray-lube of any kind as it would attract filth. Perhaps a droplet of light machine oil on moving parts?
Ok , so had a go at this today. Took the pump off to take it to the bench to strip. Split the case an there was quite a bit of crud came out, gave it all a good blow through and reassembled. Refit back on the car. moment of truth plugged it back in and Voila it started to work (which it hasn't done before) refilled the reservoir, lock to lock a few times. I had the return pipe detached and aimed into a container to collect the old fluid. Steering was starting to feel a bit lighter. off for a test drive :-). Unfortunately no difference bugger. checked under the front bonnet fluid everywhere and the pump isn't working again double bugger !!!! Too dark out there now so beer time and take another look tomorrow.
Has anybody got any ideas why the pump might work then not etc ?
Quote from: Carolyn on November 26, 2020, 13:57Quote from: Bad Dog on November 26, 2020, 13:54Quote from: Carolyn on November 25, 2020, 11:14Very often it can be brought back to life my taking the 'can' off and exposing the motor. Then a good blow-out with an airline and very light lube. This can be done on the car.
Crap tends to build up inside over time.
C
What would constitute a light lube ?
Certainly not a spray-lube of any kind as it would attract filth. Perhaps a droplet of light machine oil on moving parts?
Could you use brake /clutch cleaning spray on the motor to get rid of all the dust in the nooks and cranies or would that ruin it ?
Quote from: Bad Dog on November 28, 2020, 09:51Quote from: Carolyn on November 26, 2020, 13:57Quote from: Bad Dog on November 26, 2020, 13:54Quote from: Carolyn on November 25, 2020, 11:14Very often it can be brought back to life my taking the 'can' off and exposing the motor. Then a good blow-out with an airline and very light lube. This can be done on the car.
Crap tends to build up inside over time.
C
What would constitute a light lube ?
Certainly not a spray-lube of any kind as it would attract filth. Perhaps a droplet of light machine oil on moving parts?
Could you use brake /clutch cleaning spray on the motor to get rid of all the dust in the nooks and cranies or would that ruin it ?
That would probably be ok. I'd tend to favour electrical contact cleaner.
Quote from: Carolyn on November 28, 2020, 09:59Quote from: Bad Dog on November 28, 2020, 09:51Quote from: Carolyn on November 26, 2020, 13:57Quote from: Bad Dog on November 26, 2020, 13:54Quote from: Carolyn on November 25, 2020, 11:14Very often it can be brought back to life my taking the 'can' off and exposing the motor. Then a good blow-out with an airline and very light lube. This can be done on the car.
Crap tends to build up inside over time.
C
What would constitute a light lube ?
Certainly not a spray-lube of any kind as it would attract filth. Perhaps a droplet of light machine oil on moving parts?
Could you use brake /clutch cleaning spray on the motor to get rid of all the dust in the nooks and cranies or would that ruin it ?
That would probably be ok. I'd tend to favour electrical contact cleaner.
Oh yeah forgot about that, I have some. It's going to get it lol
Quote from: Bad Dog on November 28, 2020, 09:51Could you use brake /clutch cleaning spray on the motor to get rid of all the dust in the nooks and cranies or would that ruin it ?
It may not hurt the electrical parts, but it may cause the housing o-ring to swell. That o-ring isn't listed as available, so you would need to find a universal part.
If the housing was put on with the wrong orientation, the motor could seem to run OK, but could run backward and then the fluid would fill the reservoir and pump out the cap. If the motor ran OK and pushed the fluid out the return line as it should, then it is probably together correctly. In that case, look for other leaks.
Ok,
quick update. pulled the motor halves apart again i was going to use brake/clutch cleaner spray to get all the dust out of the nooks and crannies', however, after a recommendation from Carolyn who suggested Electrical contact cleaner I used that instead. Lathered it with quite a bit so that it was soaked and let it do its stuff. Once it had dried off reassembled an went round the block to see if there was any difference ? pulling off the drive something felt different but once on the move it was back to the normal shit. parked back on the drive and went out with the dogs. when I got back turned it all on again and thought id try lock to lock a few times and things started to feel better, the pump was still working which was a positive so another test drive beaconed. Sweet it appears to be sorted, Happy days.
When the motor was apart I took a good look around and noticed quite a bit of scoring on the commutators, bushes were looking good plenty of meat on them so not sure how long it will last but loved my first drive of an MR2 with the steering working as it should ;D
Good progress! I suspect the commutator could do with a bit of TLC.
If it misbehaves again, I would suggest a polish with some fine wet and dry paper.
Quote from: Carolyn on November 28, 2020, 18:40Good progress! I suspect the commutator could do with a bit of TLC.
If it misbehaves again, I would suggest a polish with some fine wet and dry paper.
Think they're a bit beyond polishing . I've found a few motor rebuild companies locally and may get advice from them. It would be nice to get it rebuilt like new and forget about it
And now it's not working again :(
Do try the wet and dry on the commutator. If that fails, you might be better off buying one from our affiliate breaker, Mr Sloan.
Ok, so started the old girl up this morning and guess what it's working again.
During my research I've heard people talking of "intermittent " power steering issues.
So my question is- For those people who have had an intermittent problem what did it end up being, the pump or an electrical issue or something else ?
P.s. I've ordered another pump from DICK and will see if that makes any difference
Quote from: Bad Dog on December 1, 2020, 09:10Ok, so started the old girl up this morning and guess what it's working again.
During my research I've heard people talking of "intermittent " power steering issues.
So my question is- For those people who have had an intermittent problem what did it end up being, the pump or an electrical issue or something else ?
P.s. I've ordered another pump from DICK and will see if that makes any difference
If all else fails there is the Petrus option.
For details see Readers Rides, Southern Belle.
Quote from: Joesson on December 1, 2020, 11:09Quote from: Bad Dog on December 1, 2020, 09:10Ok, so started the old girl up this morning and guess what it's working again.
During my research I've heard people talking of "intermittent " power steering issues.
So my question is- For those people who have had an intermittent problem what did it end up being, the pump or an electrical issue or something else ?
P.s. I've ordered another pump from DICK and will see if that makes any difference
If all else fails there is the Petrus option.
For details see Readers Rides, Southern Belle.
Done a bit of digging on his page but can't see anything about steering ( he has a lot of posts ) Want to give me a bit of a clue ?
I think I heard somebody mention a closed loop system which I presume mean connecting the in and out ports on the rack and leaving it like that ?
(https://myalbum.com/photo/rJ8zgMqiSbbu/1k0.jpg)
(https://myalbum.com/photo/ld8dYepbhVyD/1k0.jpg)
Quote from: Bad Dog on December 1, 2020, 17:35Quote from: Joesson on December 1, 2020, 11:09Quote from: Bad Dog on December 1, 2020, 09:10Ok, so started the old girl up this morning and guess what it's working again.
During my research I've heard people talking of "intermittent " power steering issues.
So my question is- For those people who have had an intermittent problem what did it end up being, the pump or an electrical issue or something else ?
P.s. I've ordered another pump from DICK and will see if that makes any difference
If all else fails there is the Petrus option.
For details see Readers Rides, Southern Belle.
Done a bit of digging on his page but can't see anything about steering ( he has a lot of posts ) Want to give me a bit of a clue ?
I think I heard somebody mention a closed loop system which I presume mean connecting the in and out ports on the rack and leaving it like that ?
@Petrus removed the PS system to give more feel to the system and/ or as part of his weight saving regime.
With me flagging up his name he may pop in and give you an up date on his experiences without the pump.
Quote from: Joesson on December 1, 2020, 18:30@Petrus removed the PS system to give more feel to the system and/ or as part of his weight saving regime.
With me flagging up his name he may pop in and give you an up date on his experiences without the pump.
Nothing much to report on it Joesson.
I did not like the lack of feedback from the imo overkill assistance.
The power steering ratio rack gives brílliant direct feed back without the pump.
Not regretted the delete for a single moment.
The delete itself is straightforward. The photos are clear enough.
The most tricky thing is taking the pinnacle out and block the fault light with tape behind the pictogram. Hardly complicated.
Quote from: Petrus on December 1, 2020, 18:50Quote from: Joesson on December 1, 2020, 18:30@Petrus removed the PS system to give more feel to the system and/ or as part of his weight saving regime.
With me flagging up his name he may pop in and give you an up date on his experiences without the pump.
Nothing much to report on it Joesson.
I did not like the lack of feedback from the imo overkill assistance.
The power steering ratio rack gives brílliant direct feed back without the pump.
Not regretted the delete for a single moment.
The delete itself is straightforward. The photos are clear enough.
The most tricky thing is taking the pinnacle out and block the fault light with tape behind the pictogram. Hardly complicated.
Thanks for the info Petrus.
Is the mod literally a single piece of pipe joining the two ports together ?
Have you left fluid in the rack ?
And how does it feel weight wise at slow speeds ? I'm presuming that when power steering fails it becomes really heavy because when your turning the wheel your trying to move the rack and the pump and all the fluid ?
Cheers Euan.
Yes, as simple as that; connecting both sides of the piston.
Left as much liquid as possible in there.
When stationary the steering is very heavy, but with the slightest rolling movement it is ok and from walking speed not excessive.
Since you need to faff about with it anyway, I´d say try it out.
Quote from: Petrus on December 1, 2020, 20:00Yes, as simple as that; connecting both sides of the piston.
Left as much liquid as possible in there.
When stationary the steering is very heavy, but with the slightest rolling movement it is ok and from walking speed not excessive.
Since you need to faff about with it anyway, I´d say try it out.
My thoughts exactly, nice to have options 😊 cheers thanks for the info.
Ok,
hopefully this will be the final update on this. Recived a newtome power steering pump from DICK SLOAN (excellent customer service) last night fitted it and .........bingo works a treat, even sounds better than the original (when it worked) and works better than the original (when it worked)
When I got newtome pump I took the motor cover off for a sneaky peek. There was a fair amount of dust but crucially the commutators had significantly less wear than the original and virtually no grooving.
So for now everything is golden, if it all goes tits up again I'm going for the Petrus option 😁
So pleased that your problem is now resolved and even more so that you kept us all informed, keep up the good work , don't be a stranger.
Quote from: Joesson on December 3, 2020, 13:36So pleased that your problem is now resolved and even more so that you kept us all informed, keep up the good work , don't be a stranger.
Got a few more jobs to do I think , more questions than answers 😁