MR2 Roadster Owners Club

Hi All,

I have just finished doing a few bits on my car I thought I would check the oil levels as I was there. I know I have to change the chain tension o ring and the cam cover gasket but I have lost a lot of oil from 2/3's ish on the dip stick to near the bottom in a matter of weeks.

I have had the car looked at a few weeks back to give it a once over and they said that I needed a new cam cover gasket and that the sump needed re sealing. I have attached some pictures, is there anything else I should look for?

I think you should be prepared for it being an oil burner even after you've fixed those seals.
sorry.

Quote from: jonbill on March 16, 2021, 18:00I think you should be prepared for it being an oil burner even after you've fixed those seals.
sorry.

is there anyway of making it less of an oil burner or is that just a trait of the car? I dont mind it being to much of an oil burner just no an oil leaker..

Just out of interest do you know how low the oil is before the oil light comes on? it never has in my car but i wandered when it did?

Thanks

Quote from: almitch1 on March 16, 2021, 18:09

Quote from: jonbill on March 16, 2021, 18:00I think you should be prepared for it being an oil burner even after you've fixed those seals.
sorry.

is there anyway of making it less of an oil burner or is that just a trait of the car? I dont mind it being to much of an oil burner just no an oil leaker..

Just out of interest do you know how low the oil is before the oil light comes on? it never has in my car but i wandered when it did?

Thanks

It is the trait of any engine if not regularly and correctly maintained. Nothing lasts forever but there is / was one Member on here that got more than 200k miles from new and still going last I read.
In the cars I have had very few had a warning light for low oil level, most, including the MR2 Roadster have a low pressure indicator.
If this stays on after a few seconds of starting that generally means the oil pressure is too low to ensure correct movement of the oil around the system and the engine is not far away from seizing. That likely means the engine is scrapped. If not run into this condition there is a reasonable chance of repair.
To marginally extend the life of the engine that yours seems to be in you must keep the oil level near full rather than near empty.
There is little point in using an expensive premium oil, I suggest the recommended 5w- 30w as cheap as you can buy.

Probably about a quart but It's based on the oil pressure not oil level. Once the oil light is lit consider the engine done. Even if you're running low and you make a turn at a sustained speed you will starve the bearings and will cause a catastrophic event.
What I would do is fill up the oil and see how long before it reaches the bottom. If your suspicions are real consider  A used low mileage engine.

In the interim I would run a heavy weight oil to retard the rate of consumption.

Quote from: Joesson on March 16, 2021, 18:22

Quote from: almitch1 on March 16, 2021, 18:09

Quote from: jonbill on March 16, 2021, 18:00I think you should be prepared for it being an oil burner even after you've fixed those seals.
sorry.

is there anyway of making it less of an oil burner or is that just a trait of the car? I dont mind it being to much of an oil burner just no an oil leaker..

Just out of interest do you know how low the oil is before the oil light comes on? it never has in my car but i wandered when it did?

Thanks

It is the trait of any engine if not regularly and correctly maintained. Nothing lasts forever but there is / was one Member on here that got more than 200k miles from new and still going last I read.
In the cars I have had very few had a warning light for low oil level, most, including the MR2 Roadster have a low pressure indicator.
If this stays on after a few seconds of starting that generally means the oil pressure is too low to ensure correct movement of the oil around the system and the engine is not far away from seizing. That likely means the engine is scrapped. If not run into this condition there is a reasonable chance of repair.
To marginally extend the life of the engine that yours seems to be in you must keep the oil level near full rather than near empty.
There is little point in using an expensive premium oil, I suggest the recommended 5w- 30w as cheap as you can buy.

I would suggest that 'not regularly/correctly maintained' is a bit strong!  Can just be a trait of the engine period since owners' manual does suggest up to 1 litre every 600 miles.  Also well documented for other Toyota models of the era. 

So what sort of maintenance would you be suggesting to avert this? Do remember that we are talking about cars that are at least 15 years old.

Quote from: Dev on March 16, 2021, 18:28Probably about a quart but It's based on the oil pressure not oil level. Once the oil light is lit consider the engine done. Even if you're running low and you make a turn at a sustained speed you will starve the bearings and will cause a catastrophic event.
What I would do is fill up the oil and see how long before it reaches the bottom. If your suspicions are real consider  A used low mileage engine.

In the interim I would run a heavy weight oil to retard the rate of consumption.

Wow i wasnt expecting such a bad diagnosis.... Where else can oil leak from?

Quote from: almitch1 on March 16, 2021, 18:44

Quote from: Dev on March 16, 2021, 18:28Probably about a quart but It's based on the oil pressure not oil level. Once the oil light is lit consider the engine done. Even if you're running low and you make a turn at a sustained speed you will starve the bearings and will cause a catastrophic event.
What I would do is fill up the oil and see how long before it reaches the bottom. If your suspicions are real consider  A used low mileage engine.

In the interim I would run a heavy weight oil to retard the rate of consumption.

Wow i wasnt expecting such a bad diagnosis.... Where else can oil leak from?

At this point you don't really know. All you have are suspicions based on some loose assumptions observing the dipstick reading.

You need to fill up the oil to the top and learn how to read the oil level from the dipstick as it can be a little tricky. Once that is done note the number of miles as you keep checking until it is 1/4 on the dipstick. Once you have that information you will have a good idea where it's coming from. It could be you have quite a bit of seepage from the seals or the oil is going past the rings.
Have you remove the pre-cats yet? If not you need to investigate this to see if they are damaged.

Quote from: Dev on March 16, 2021, 18:51

Quote from: almitch1 on March 16, 2021, 18:44

Quote from: Dev on March 16, 2021, 18:28Probably about a quart but It's based on the oil pressure not oil level. Once the oil light is lit consider the engine done. Even if you're running low and you make a turn at a sustained speed you will starve the bearings and will cause a catastrophic event.
What I would do is fill up the oil and see how long before it reaches the bottom. If your suspicions are real consider  A used low mileage engine.

In the interim I would run a heavy weight oil to retard the rate of consumption.

I was told when i bough the car that the pre cats have been done but i don't have any proof of this. maybe my short time as a 2 owner will be cut short.



Wow i wasnt expecting such a bad diagnosis.... Where else can oil leak from?

At this point you don't really know. All you have are suspicions based on some loose assumptions observing the dipstick reading.

You need to fill up the oil to the top and learn how to read the oil level from the dipstick as it can be a little tricky. Once that is done note the number of miles as you keep checking until it is 1/4 on the dipstick. Once you have that information you will have a good idea where it's coming from. It could be you have quite a bit of seepage from the seals or the oil is going past the rings.
Have you remove the pre-cats yet? If not you need to investigate this to see if they are damaged.

Could just be that someone refitted the cam cover with a crap gasket...
It's 30 mins tops to do and 20gbp for a good gasket.

Could remove the cover, clean it up. New gasket. Top up oil and watch.
Burning is expected to a certain degree. Leaking is just... Something is leaking... :)

Quote from: ManInDandism on March 16, 2021, 18:37

Quote from: Joesson on March 16, 2021, 18:22

Quote from: almitch1 on March 16, 2021, 18:09

Quote from: jonbill on March 16, 2021, 18:00I think you should be prepared for it being an oil burner even after you've fixed those seals.
sorry.

is there anyway of making it less of an oil burner or is that just a trait of the car? I dont mind it being to much of an oil burner just no an oil leaker..

Just out of interest do you know how low the oil is before the oil light comes on? it never has in my car but i wandered when it did?

Thanks

It is the trait of any engine if not regularly and correctly maintained. Nothing lasts forever but there is / was one Member on here that got more than 200k miles from new and still going last I read.
In the cars I have had very few had a warning light for low oil level, most, including the MR2 Roadster have a low pressure indicator.
If this stays on after a few seconds of starting that generally means the oil pressure is too low to ensure correct movement of the oil around the system and the engine is not far away from seizing. That likely means the engine is scrapped. If not run into this condition there is a reasonable chance of repair.
*To marginally extend the life of the engine that yours seems to be in you must keep the oil level near full rather than near empty.
There is little point in using an expensive premium oil, I suggest the recommended 5w- 30w as cheap as you can buy.

I would suggest that 'not regularly/correctly maintained' is a bit strong!  Can just be a trait of the engine period since owners' manual does suggest up to 1 litre every 600 miles.  Also well documented for other Toyota models of the era. 

* So what sort of maintenance would you be suggesting to avert this? Do remember that we are talking about cars that are at least 15 years old.

The OP was referring to the oil light in relation  to quantity of oil, my answer was trying to explain and address  that.
Checking the oil level regularly if you have a leak is worth a mention.
If the low level " about a quart" missing was due to leakage only I suggest there  would be evidence under the car.

It's not all doom and gloom, even if it's an oil burner.  Many folk have got thousands of fun miles out of oil burners.  If one gets used the the consumption rate , it's not hard to keep it topped up and safe from self-deconstruction. 

Unfortunately, O rings and cam-cover gasket tend to weep slowly and, while they do make a grubby mess in your engine bay, they usually aren't responsible for major oil disappearances.

Unfortunately used low-mileage engines just aren't out there in the UK.

As others have advised, the best course of action is to keep a record of mileage and oil consumption and let us know what you find.

I've rebuilt a few of these engines to correct oil consumption, and one always finds oil control rings gummed into their grooves.  No amount of Marvel Mystery Oil or other potion will free them up, I'm afraid.

I know.  I've tried everything!

But, please, don't be too discouraged.  Many a member has overcome the issue and ended up with a great little car that is even more personal and special for being saved and preserved.

I believe Ian ('@thetyrant')  has just built up an engine that is an 'extra'.....

In the meantime - I can still send you an O ring!!

Quote from: Carolyn on March 16, 2021, 19:12It's not all doom and gloom, even if it's an oil burner.  Many folk have got thousands of fun miles out of oil burners.  If one gets used the the consumption rate , it's not hard to keep it topped up and safe from self-deconstruction. 

Unfortunately, O rings and cam-cover gasket tend to weep slowly and, while they do make a grubby mess in your engine bay, they usually aren't responsible for major oil disappearances.

Unfortunately used low-mileage engines just aren't out there in the UK.

As others have advised, the best course of action is to keep a record of mileage and oil consumption and let us know what you find.

I've rebuilt a few of these engines to correct oil consumption, and one always finds oil control rings gummed into their grooves.  No amount of Marvel Mystery Oil or other potion will free them up, I'm afraid.

I know.  I've tried everything!

But, please, don't be too discouraged.  Many a member has overcome the issue and ended up with a great little car that is even more personal and special for being saved and preserved.

I believe Ian ('@Tyrant')  has just built up an engine that is an 'extra'.....

In the meantime- I can still send you an O ring!!

Thanks Carolyn,

You have already sent me one which i will be fitting at the weekend.

Thanks

What I'm gonna say next it's just a general observation and it doesn't mean necessarily that it's your situation. I have seen throughout the years people unload their oil burning cars on someone else. This is usually discovered by the new owner shortly after ownership.

It is quite possible that the previous owner had a pre-cat event that led them to gut the rest of the pre cats. there is no saving the car once the pre-cats have come apart because by that time the damage is already done.
I don't know this particular car to hedge that judgment so I would first do a consumption test.

Quote from: Dev on March 16, 2021, 19:22What I'm gonna say next it's just a general observation and it doesn't mean necessarily that it's your situation. I have seen throughout the years people unload their oil burning cars on someone else. This is usually discovered by the new owner shortly after ownership.

It is quite possible that the previous owner had a pre-cat event that led them to gut the rest of the pre cats. there is no saving the car once the pre-cats have come apart because by that time the damage is already done.
I don't know this particular car to hedge that judgment so I would first do a consumption test.

The previous owner said he had the pre cats done. But i guess i will never know until the time my car ceases...lol.

Is there any smells or smokes i should be looking out for?

Thanks

Quote from: almitch1 on March 16, 2021, 19:27

Quote from: Dev on March 16, 2021, 19:22What I'm gonna say next it's just a general observation and it doesn't mean necessarily that it's your situation. I have seen throughout the years people unload their oil burning cars on someone else. This is usually discovered by the new owner shortly after ownership.

It is quite possible that the previous owner had a pre-cat event that led them to gut the rest of the pre cats. there is no saving the car once the pre-cats have come apart because by that time the damage is already done.
I don't know this particular car to hedge that judgment so I would first do a consumption test.

The previous owner said he had the pre cats done. But i guess i will never know until the time my car ceases...lol.

Is there any smells or smokes i should be looking out for?

Thanks

Hard to tell. I have seen one burn lots of oil more than what is acceptable without smoke. The other one I seen was a smoke factory. 
The problem with keeping an oil burner is you have to check the oil regularly and top it off if you plan to do any performance driving. If the oil gets to a point where it's low and you go around the bend it will damage the engine.
 If you find yourself adding a quart every week what I would do at that point is do an engine flush with one of the safer oil flushes from Motul. This can help clean up the rings and drainage holes. Follow this up with a 5W-40 Motor oil and see if the consumption goes down. Some of these newer synthetic oil's are able to clean up varnished engines and restore them back to better health. 

Best not jump to conclusions of doom and gloom.
Been there, got the t-shirt, looked a fool.

I paid 17gbp delivered for a cam cover gasket.
It's next to no effort replacing it.
Then you monitor. If it's doom and gloom, we'll cross that bridge then

All of the above.
Top up to full. Monitor.
Anything less than a litre per 1000km (621miles) is in spec. As per the handbook, if you have one.

Quote from: Ardent on March 16, 2021, 21:04All of the above.
Top up to full. Monitor.
Anything less than a litre per 1000km (621miles) is in spec. As per the handbook, if you have one.

[/quote

I haven't done 1000km in it since I've have it and I've lost more that that. I guess I need to do the changes to gaskets and o rings and monitor again.

Thanks

The 1zz is known to have a piston flaw with the oil control ring holes, they clog up if the engine hasn't been perfectly serviced - they are far too small. Toyota revised the piston design in the very very late cars to fix the issue with larger oil drain holes.

It might be fine as it could just be leaks from the cam cover gasket and tensionor O ring but the engine is well known to burn oil, some are fine, some have issues - mine was on almost 180k miles before I pulled it to put in a forged engine, didn't really burn any oil.

Are there any drips on the floor under the car?

As Carolyn says,. The pics seem to say a slight seep but nothing out of the ordinary. I was surprised nobody up until today mentioned any evidence on the drive or road. I bought mine as an " oil user " but I serviced straight away and in 1k Mls since have not had to top up but, have signs of slight leakage on the drive but not alarming at all and will fix on a nice day soon. Keep a regular check on oil level, get underneath and have a good look, check drive or your regular parking place and don't be alarmed, my advise anyway.

****UPDATE****

I have changed the gasket and o ring in the chain tensioner and i notice alot of oil all down the right hand side of the engine.....

Also how do you access the crank shaft pulley to get the tensioner to "click" my ratchets are all to wide?

Thanks

Put the car in high gear and roll it forward.  Use a hand on the tyre to help it move.

Right hand side suggests O ring misbehaviour. Can make a real mess over time!

You're not having much luck with the car but as others have said don't lose faith just yet.

You are not far from Patrick Chambers who is very knowable on MR2 and has done a bit of work for me. I'd be tempted to have a think, take the advice here and see if the oil consumption goes down and if you can't live with it then see if Patrick and re-build or look out for a used engine from one of known and respected mr2 recyclers. I noticed on FB Patrick said he charges £300 to swap an engine if you supply the parts. I don't know how mechanically mind you are but these are pretty easy cars to work on, I've certainly done a number of gearbox and engine changes on my drive.

Quote from: almitch1 on March 17, 2021, 12:37****UPDATE****

I have changed the gasket and o ring in the chain tensioner and i notice alot of oil all down the right hand side of the engine.....

Also how do you access the crank shaft pulley to get the tensioner to "click" my ratchets are all to wide?

Thanks

Think I managed to get to the nut at the end using one of the swan neck spanners, doesn't need much.

you can put it in gear and rock it.

Right,

So the cam cover gasket and the chain tesioner O ring have been changed the engine has been cleaned up a little.

I got her warm..... No oil coming from the gasket or o ring.

Went for a 30 min drive and still all dry...


let hope thats it sorted. I will need to take the under tray off at some point and give it a good clean as it covered in oil and grime.

As i have never done more than change a wheel before im quite chuffed that this week i have changed front discs and pads and now the gasket and O ring.... For most of you its nothing i know but we have all got to start somewhere.

Its thanks to you guys in here, lots of help and guidance...

Thanks

Al

Replace the pcv valve with a new one.

Not a maintenance part but they do go ´off´ over time and are a source for oil loss.

Good result Al. I'm in the same boat as you. Little previous experience of car maintenance or repairs but willing to give it a go, particularly with such a supportive club as this

You're a natural!  We'll have you doing engine rebuilds in no time.

Keep an eye on that oil level. ;D

I'm not sure about that.. but you never know.

Quote from: almitch1 on March 17, 2021, 20:33I'm not sure about that.. but you never know.

Well done.

Fingers crossed that it was as simple as that.

Doom and gloom postponed until further notice

Top job, stand back and admire your handy work. Hopefully you can move on to sorting out the handling and start enjoying the MR2.

This was the under tray when I took it out today. Quite clear it was a leak on the right side and has never been attended to.

4363BEE6-E092-405C-82FA-7DEC40ADFF87.jpeg

Quote from: almitch1 on March 19, 2021, 19:114363BEE6-E092-405C-82FA-7DEC40ADFF87.jpeg

Ouch

Quote from: 1979scotte on March 19, 2021, 19:40

Quote from: almitch1 on March 19, 2021, 19:114363BEE6-E092-405C-82FA-7DEC40ADFF87.jpeg

Ouch

Let's hope it's all sorted now? All bits down the right side of the engine are covered am I ok to use an engine degreaser all over pulleys and all??

I spray them down with plenty of petrol!!  I hook a spray bottle up to our compressor and blast it off.

Best to do it with nappy still off and plenty of carboard under the car.

Quote from: Carolyn on March 19, 2021, 19:50I spray them down with plenty of petrol!!  I hook a spray bottle up to our compressor and blast it off.

Best to do it with nappy still off and plenty of carboard under the car.

What about a shop bought engine degreaser?

@almitch1 asked:  am I ok to use an engine degreaser all over pulleys and all??

I would be very careful about what I used to clean around the pulleys, remember there is a rubber belt wrapped around them.

Quote from: Joesson on March 19, 2021, 20:16@almitch1 asked:  am I ok to use an engine degreaser all over pulleys and all??

I would be very careful about what I used to clean around the pulleys, remember there is a rubber belt wrapped around them.

PS
While you are looking around that area may be worthwhile checking the condition of the auxiliary belt. They are a service replacement item. I found I needed an extra hand to change mine but @Carolyn has a workaround to do it with just two.
Be aware that there are two belt lengths available. The shorter one is for cars without air con and the longer is for cars with aircon.
If the belt is off while you are cleaning that is one thing less to worry about.
If you do decide to remove the belt first make a sketch of how the belt goes around the pullies, or maybe in these modern times a photo on your phone, maybe you have one that bounces if you drop it.

Quote from: almitch1 on March 19, 2021, 20:00

Quote from: Carolyn on March 19, 2021, 19:50I spray them down with plenty of petrol!!  I hook a spray bottle up to our compressor and blast it off.

Best to do it with nappy still off and plenty of carboard under the car.

What about a shop bought engine degreaser?

bilt hamber sure fx perhaps

Hello all,

Update time. So its been 100miles since i thought i sorted the oil leak. The good news is that the o ring and gasket i replaced are all good. However there seems to be alot of oil on the underneath of the car to the right (as you look from behind) of the sump and filter. Also according to the dipstick its lost nearly half the oil i put in 100 miles ago... Im not sure i took a correct reading but it was startled.

Any ideas?

Quote from: almitch1 on April  1, 2021, 15:12Hello all,

Update time. So its been 100miles since i thought i sorted the oil leak. The good news is that the o ring and gasket i replaced are all good. However there seems to be alot of oil on the underneath of the car to the right (as you look from behind) of the sump and filter. Also according to the dipstick its lost nearly half the oil i put in 100 miles ago... Im not sure i took a correct reading but it was startled.

Any ideas?

The crankshaft seal on the pulley?

To find the source of the leak, you need to clean off all the muck.  It's a pain. Brush it with grease solvent (petrol is good), then something like brake cleaner, and keep going until you can see what's under there.  Old clothes, beanie and loads of rags needed!

It could be a few things -but that rate of loss would make me want to check for pin holes in the sump.

It could be the front or back crank seals, it could be....O ring on a sensor?? 

Once it's clean, run it a bit and have a look.  It should be more obvious.

Bilt hamber sure fx

The friendly version of gunk.

Clean then observe

Quote from: Carolyn on April  1, 2021, 16:37It could be the front or back crank seals, it could be....O ring on a sensor?? 

He wrote rhs looking from the back.

Indeed; degreaser, pressure hose, repeat if needed.