Hi all. This is my project car. 04 red 6 speed Mr2 roadster. To satisfy my "need for speed" I an turboing the little beast. My last car was a Clio 197 so while I love the handling of the car the engine feels a little aneamic! And as I've never done it before I fancied doing a turbo conversion. The car has a genuine 50k miles so I also want to preserve it and future proof it. So far I have acquired a Turbo Kits cast manifold from the US. A cheap ebay Turbo ( wish me luck!) A silencer and 2.5" stainless pipe to fabricate the zorst. Intercooler pipe and hose. 2nd hand intercooler which is possibly too big? More bits arriving daily. Unfortunately when I stripped everything off it the suspension arms etc were very rusty so I have stripped them off and refurbished them. The subframe was rotten and I have managed to find a mint imported one. Will add fotos but it says the files are too large. Any ideas how to get them on. Cheers
Charge coolers work better with the mid engine layout. Have you given thought to what engine management you will use?
Hi 1979scotte
Not sure yet on engine management. Still researching that one. Seen one called "Unichip" on Internet. Open to suggestions.
Thanks Mick
Quote from: Micktet999 on February 28, 2022, 22:52Hi 1979scotte
Not sure yet on engine management. Still researching that one. Seen one called "Unichip" on Internet. Open to suggestions.
Thanks Mick
"not unichip" is my suggestion :)
Unless you happen to live in the South East.
Link G4+ Storm or ECUMASTER if you want to save some pennies for what is still a very good standalone ecu. I'm dying for someone to break ground with the MegaSquirt 3 for the MR2. So many MX-5s run on them. It wouldn't take long to get it figured out.
Quote from: Micktet999 on February 28, 2022, 22:52Hi 1979scotte
Not sure yet on engine management. Still researching that one. Seen one called "Unichip" on Internet. Open to suggestions.
Thanks Mick
Unichip is a piggy back which I'm not fond of although I don't hate them like
@shnazzle or others ran ok ish on my SP240 Turbo kit.
Find a local tuner and see what they like to use. Unlikely they'll know anything about Toyota 1zz engines but at least they'll know they're ecu and software. Oh and it won't be cheap.
Thanks guys. My understanding is that it has has to be a piggy back one as a stand alone wont work the dash board stuff? This is only based on some American sites info so could be bullsh@t for all I know. My local tuner (RS in Leeds) cannot supply one for this car. TBH as I'm on a budget it will probably come down to price.
Power. Reliability. Money.
Pick two, you can't have all three.
You can turbo these cars on the cheap, just don't expect it to last.
Quote from: Alex Knight on March 1, 2022, 08:52Power. Reliability. Money.
Pick two, you can't have all three.
You can turbo these cars on the cheap, just don't expect it to last.
Having said that, going up to about 185-190hp (crank) can be perfectly reliable. TTE turbo is at that and passes the Toyota reliability tests. SP240 even run for years.
Quote from: shnazzle on March 1, 2022, 08:54Having said that, going up to about 185-190hp (crank) can be perfectly reliable. TTE turbo is at that and passes the Toyota reliability tests. SP240 even run for years.
I'm not talking about the capacity of the 1ZZ, I'm talking about doing it with cheap parts.
Quote from: Alex Knight on March 1, 2022, 09:58I'm not talking about the capacity of the 1ZZ, I'm talking about doing it with cheap parts.
Apologies. I shall get back in my cage
Speeding parts had 50% off Holset turbos yesterday, the drawback is they're in Sweden but could still work out a good deal even with import fees/vat.
But as regards ECU and dash the EMU Black standalone lets the standard ECU control all the dashboard functions and retains the OEM immobiliser.
Try RDT Race Dyno Tuning at Doncaster, Will does a lot of work on Toyota engines, mainly 2zz for the Celica motorsports teams and he's familiar with the Black.
Quote from: Micktet999 on March 1, 2022, 08:35Thanks guys. My understanding is that it has has to be a piggy back one as a stand alone wont work the dash board stuff? This is only based on some American sites info so could be bullsh@t for all I know. My local tuner (RS in Leeds) cannot supply one for this car. TBH as I'm on a budget it will probably come down to price.
Wrong.
You keep the stock ecu to run the clocks but use the standalone to run the engine.
The ecu is the most important part IMHO.
Thanks everyone for the comments. I will give RDT in Doncaster a bell they are not far away.
On a handling note. Has anyone tried a Whiteline 18mm rear arb? My standard puny one is very corroded and probably weakened so I was thinking of replacing it with the above.
Quote from: Micktet999 on March 1, 2022, 22:34Thanks everyone for the comments. I will give RDT in Doncaster a bell they are not far away.
On a handling note. Has anyone tried a Whiteline 18mm rear arb? My standard puny one is very corroded and probably weakened so I was thinking of replacing it with the above.
You'll probably find it's not as bad as you think. Many people just rub them down and paint. Many do use the whiteline not something I've done myself.
Quote from: Micktet999 on February 28, 2022, 16:38. Will add fotos but it says the files are too large. Any ideas how to get them on. Cheers
Max 4mb per file if uploading here.
Host elsewhere and link them.
Or could use the new to us, imgbb facility. Found under the box you reply in.
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Do love me a snail.
I'm guessing it's just test fit for now but I'd definitely extend that intake outwards. That's smack in the center of Heat Soak City SOHO.
Good progress!
If you need a quick piggyback solution in the interim to stop your car detonating on the drive to the tuner/ecu fitter, I've got an eManage blue plug/play here
Thanks Shnazzle might take you up on that. I know absolutely nothing about the electrickery side of things. I was brought up with minis and escorts!! Yes just trial fitted intake will be extended. Thinking of putting maf/map sensor on intake side. More photos to follow. )-;
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Home fabricated zorst in stainless Steel using all ebay bits. I salvaged the o2 sensor mounts from othe old manifold and mig welded them on. Total cost was about £150. I will be wrapping it to keep engine bay a bit cooler. Replacement subframe before and after paint job!! I had some Kawasaki green 2 pack kicking about in garage. Should last a good while me thinks.
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Found this beast on FB market place for £70! Hope it's not too big? My thinking is that a higher volume will increase Turbo-lag? As I say total novice to this game.
Quote from: Micktet999 on March 2, 2022, 09:10Thanks Shnazzle might take you up on that. I know absolutely nothing about the electrickery side of things. I was brought up with minis and escorts!! Yes just trial fitted intake will be extended. Thinking of putting maf/map sensor on intake side. More photos to follow. )-;
That's absolutely fine. We're all here to help where we can.
MAF and MAP are two separate and different sensors.
The MAF needs to be mounted after the air filter on the intake side. No other place it can go really.
MAP generally takes an input from the intake manifold or very close to it. You want it to measure the manifold pressure.
MAF and MAP are what they call different fueling strategies.
They can be used in parallel. In fact that's the best way. But it depends on the ECU you're using. Ecumaster for example doesn't support MAF.
You'd do well to understand how turbocharging works and what an ECU does. So many things will fall into place
Did you treat the inside of the rear subframe? Thats the worst bit and heat from the turbo may make it worse.
Nobody is going to convince me that an intercooler is the right way to go on an MR2.
Chargecooler all the way with an MR car. That air-to-air cooler is going to get next to no airflow at all.
That's designed to be placed at the front, not the back.
I don't think you're doing the right thing and your charge temps will be sky high, causing detonation.
I believe the subframe is different between the pre facelift and facelift cars, did you get the facelift one?
Quote from: Topdownman on March 2, 2022, 11:22I believe the subframe is different between the pre facelift and facelift cars, did you get the facelift one?
Looks very much like an FL in the pictures, even with the striking greeeeeeeeeeeeeen paint..😎
It's a trial and error thing really. I learn better by having a go and seeing what works. I do plan to duct cool air to it as best I can. Plus it was only £70 and better than nothing. It will be a low boost set up. Standard fuel pump for now and larger 2zz yellow injectors ( genuine ones). As Standard does it have a maf or a map sensor?
Thanks
I applaud your approach.
The intercooler does work. That particular one is rather large, but it'll do the trick. Maybe introduce a little lag but, as you said, do it and learn.
Stock is MAF.
MAF generally is better for driveability and low-load. But MAP is the standard as its less fussy
Thanks everyone. I am hoping to duct some cool air to it and will only be running modest boost. I plan to use standard fuel pump and 2zz yellow injectors. My fist turbo car was back in the 80's . It was an MG metro turbo. It didn't even have an intercooler! It was crap mind, making a heady 93 bhp!! On a standard car is the sensor just after the airport a maf or map?
Thanks
Air box not airport haha
Quote from: Micktet999 on March 2, 2022, 17:12Thanks everyone. I am hoping to duct some cool air to it and will only be running modest boost. I plan to use standard fuel pump and 2zz yellow injectors. My fist turbo car was back in the 80's . It was an MG metro turbo. It didn't even have an intercooler! It was crap mind, making a heady 93 bhp!! On a standard car is the sensor just after the airport a maf or map?
Thanks
MAF.
Most NA cars are maf and even many turbos.
What are your power goals?
You've not picked out an ECU have you chosen a turbo?
Any turbo will work. Any ecu will work. We tend to chase "the best" but if you're experimentijg and on a budget... Just have fun. You've come quitr far already. Kep at it
Quote from: shnazzle on March 2, 2022, 19:14Any turbo will work. Any ecu will work. We tend to chase "the best" but if you're experimentijg and on a budget... Just have fun. You've come quitr far already. Kep at it
Yes but you don't want anything bigger than a gt28 do you?
Quote from: 1979scotte on March 2, 2022, 20:33Yes but you don't want anything bigger than a gt28 do you?
Or do you? :) haha. It's been done... With a fully built engine haha
But the pic earlier on looks t25 or t28ish anyway
Quote from: shnazzle on March 2, 2022, 21:08Or do you? :) haha. It's been done... With a fully built engine haha
But the pic earlier on looks t25 or t28ish anyway
Compressor side looks big for a gt25 copy so probably nearer a 28 copy, it'll definitely go whoosh...
Quote from: Call the midlife! on March 2, 2022, 22:25Compressor side looks big for a gt25 copy so probably nearer a 28 copy, it'll definitely go whoosh...
But will it go bang?
Quote from: 1979scotte on March 3, 2022, 09:08But will it go bang?
"If it dies, it dies..." if it's what the project budget will stretch to then it's a calculated risk I'm sure. And if it's a £200 ebay turbo (for the sake of argument) then it's a £200 replacement, as long as any bits don't get through the flash preventer in the TB 😎
Quote from: Call the midlife! on March 3, 2022, 09:13"If it dies, it dies..." if it's what the project budget will stretch to then it's a calculated risk I'm sure. And if it's a £200 ebay turbo (for the sake of argument) then it's a £200 replacement, as long as any bits don't get through the flash preventer in the TB 😎
You mean that thing that people remove from the TB because it's an obstruction?🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Time will tell 🤣🤣! Wouldn't life be dull without a little risk eh! More goodies arrived today! Yippee😁
Quote from: shnazzle on March 3, 2022, 13:42You mean that thing that people remove from the TB because it's an obstruction?🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
You'd have to be some kind of crazy fooooool..🤓
Been bolting the newly refurbished rear suspension back on today. Complete with lower stiffer springs and shiny new Whiteline ARB! Will probs get a front one to match to keep it balanced.
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Also ordered a different wastegate actuator. I found out that the stock one on the ebay Turbo was set at 1 bar which is way too much. I was going to use the BOV to blow off when boost reached about 8 psi but don't think that is the best way to achieve this. New one is set to 0.5 bar but I can increase this later if required with boost adjuster.
Not fitting shock dust boots ?
Questions guys.
Can I connect the turbo oil return pipe directly to the sump drain hole? I happen to have a banjo fitting that is perfect for the job.
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Quote from: Micktet999 on March 17, 2022, 16:26Questions guys.
Can I connect the turbo oil return pipe directly to the sump drain hole? I happen to have a banjo fitting that is perfect for the job.
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absolutely not, unless you want the turbo to fill up with oil make a smoke screen :) you need to drain right at the top of sump above oil level inside and maintain good downward angle to keep oil flowing as its only go gravity pushing it.
What he said... Rather crucial :)
Do this and it's guaranteed turbo bye bye time
Have you got a copy of the TTE manual? It describes exactly where to put it...
http://mr2roc.org/Repository/misc/referencelibrary/tteturbo.pdf
Quote from: Micktet999 on March 17, 2022, 16:26Questions guys.
Can I connect the turbo oil return pipe directly to the sump drain hole? I happen to have a banjo fitting that is perfect for the job.
(https://i.ibb.co/njVfSN0/20220317-161144.jpg) (https://ibb.co/njVfSN0)
OMG.
FFS No.
Make sure it's high enough up the sump to be above the full level.
Thanks everyone much appreciated.
My thinking is that the oil feeding the turbo is under pressure as it comes from the oil pressure switch take off point? My turbo ( ebay t25 or t28 copy) has a 2mm restrictor.
Is the oil coming out of the turbo still under pressure?
If it is would it be OK to use similar sized hose (AN 4 fittings) for the return?
Or does it require a larger hose such as with AN 10 size fittings?
Many thanks Mick
Quote from: Micktet999 on March 20, 2022, 09:05Thanks everyone much appreciated.
My thinking is that the oil feeding the turbo is under pressure as it comes from the oil pressure switch take off point? My turbo ( ebay t25 or t28 copy) has a 2mm restrictor.
Is the oil coming out of the turbo still under pressure?
If it is would it be OK to use similar sized hose (AN 4 fittings) for the return?
Or does it require a larger hose such as with AN 10 size fittings?
Many thanks Mick
Nope oil coming out of turbo gravity fed only, as written above.
You want the biggest return line you can fit, get it out and back in the sump as quickly as possible, especially when you've switched the engine off if you don't give it chance to cycle cool.
Check that 2mm restrictor, it might not "restrict" enough for the pressure you're sending through the turbo and you'll end up blowing through the seals.
Quote from: Call the midlife! on March 20, 2022, 12:00You want the biggest return line you can fit, get it out and back in the sump as quickly as possible, especially when you've switched the engine off if you don't give it chance to cycle cool.
Check that 2mm restrictor, it might not "restrict" enough for the pressure you're sending through the turbo and you'll end up blowing through the seals.
Spot on.
As above the oil feed and drains are critical to prevent issues with turbo seals and smokey motors, you need just enough oil pressure going into turbo and as big drain as possible with good angle into the sump to allow graviy to do its thing and stop it backing up into centre section of turbo, too much pressure or not enough drain capacity and turbo seals will allow oil to get into turbines.
The TTE turbo kit instructions referenced above show a good idea where to fit the drain back into sump but i felt it wasnt best angle with a straight fitting on sump face, it works but just in opinion as due to tilt on engine and angle of sump its actually uphill for last part into sump, if fitting is short its ok but lot of these barbed fittings are quite long so it has quite an uphill stretch to overcome.
On my SP turbo kit i used same sump location (only place you can really) but made an angled adaptor to make sure the oil flow was downhill all the way, from memory i needed about 30deg angle from sump face to do this, i have a picture somewhere will see if i can find it.
Thanks guys just a question on injectors. I'm going to be running max 7 psi boost. I'm fitting Yellow injectors from a 2zz which I believe are 320cc? That engine makes 190 bhp so my thinking they will be OK or do I need bigger injectors or even an upgraded fuel pump or both?
Thanks Mick 👍
If you're looking at 190 at the flywheel, like the 2zz (170ish HP) then yes they'll be fine.
We ran 440cc injectors at stock pressure for 235hp at the axels (not wheels) and there was plenty headroom in them.
Hi guys. I see on here that you can fit Yaris front lower control arms. If so what year of Yaris? What is the advantage of this?
The main advantage is the price, way cheaper than ones designated for the mr2 of the same year.
These are the ones I bought recently.
link (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/283379164729)
The arms look the same as the ones which came off but the bush is not so solid on the yaris part.
Quote from: Micktet999 on March 2, 2022, 09:19Home fabricated zorst in stainless Steel using all ebay bits. I salvaged the o2 sensor mounts from othe old manifold and mig welded them on. Total cost was about £150. I will be wrapping it to keep engine bay a bit cooler. Replacement subframe before and after paint job!! I had some Kawasaki green 2 pack kicking about in garage. Should last a good while me thinks.
Nice exhaust. I assume you have a friendly MOT man to overlook your lack of CAT and emissions fail...
Also, there are 2 primary o2 so you will have to parallel the signal to duplicate it from that 1 bung to the ECU. Or if running a standalone you only need 1 sensor so the second bung is not required.
DO NOT put both primary sensors in the same pipe because they will fight each other until the engine runs so rich and lean it cooks the rings, that'd how I received my oil burner not knowing why it wouldn't run right... Supposedly an experienced MR2 racer built the thing...
Sent from my M2102J20SG using Tapatalk
Thanks MrT,
I parallel wired the o2 sensor and it works. Yes I have a top MOT man he's 👌.
OK time for an update 😎
Car now up and running! Yeah !!
Currently ( just for a quick test drive) running on stock ecu but actually runs OK. Problem is as soon as the boost builds up the clutch starts slipping. I think it was already on its way out so I have ordered an uprated paddle type from Rocket Dog. When that is fitted I can look at getting it mapped.
Budget very tight as I'm in the middle of a house move so was thinking of speaking to Unichip .
Has anyone used one of these with any success? Prefer something more local to West Yorkshire but can't seem to find anyone interested in supplying and mapping a piggyback ecu.
The Sp turbos run Unichip and i wasnt un happy but it's very old tech.
Tried the ECUMASTER det3 on my V6 and it wasn't ideal although should be better with 4 cylinders.
The usual advice is to go with the ecu your chosen tuner prefers rather than picking one yourself.
I know full standalone is much more expensive but at least you don't have 2 ecu fighting each other.
If you wanted a cheap plug an play piggy back ecu I've got an emanage blue with mr2 harness and map sensor etc, also old laptop with software on, ideal for low boost/power but no good if you planning big boost.
Let me know if any interest, it better than unichip imo as easier and more people can map them
Thanksthetyrant that sounds good. I will ask around local ish tuners if any of them can map it. Message me with price please.
Thanks Mick
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Project now possibly for sale
Summary of what I've done.
2004 50k miles car
17 inch Japanese rare alloys
New 30mm lowering springs
New groved rear discs and pads
New rear subframe
New rear tie rod polybushes
Ebay T25 copy turbo ( New and appears well made)7psi wastegate
Braided oil feed and return lines
"Turbo kits" cast manifold from USA
Large intercooler
All New intercooler pipework and silicone hoses.
Stainless fabricated exhaust
Yellow 2zz 190 injectors
Starts runs and drives and is Mot Ed until March 23.
What needs doing #
Currently running stock ecu ( just done a couple of quick test runs)
So needs aftermarket ucu and mapping
Exhaust heat wrapping (I will supply this) improvement to inlet location.
I would be looking for offers over £3k as it stands me at much more than this.
If no interest I will remove turbo and put new stainless exhaust system on it.
Thanks Mick 07809 686372