So just to clarify, does the exhaust always need to be removed to allow the rear subframe to be removed and replaced please? I am on the cusp of the subframe extraction and would like to leave the exhaust intact if at all possible. I've seen threads with opposing views. BTW I have the TTE twin exhaust.
I would have thought removing the cat should suffice.
Quote from: Carolyn on May 15, 2022, 12:37I would have thought removing the cat should suffice.
Thanks Carolyn, that's a shame, I was hoping with a bit of jiggery pokery to wiggle it through. Just a new crush gasket needed then I'm assuming?
Quote from: BARNPOT2000 on May 15, 2022, 13:01Thanks Carolyn, that's a shame, I was hoping with a bit of jiggery pokery to wiggle it through. Just a new crush gasket needed then I'm assuming?
Two crush rings. Get OEM.
I think it can can be removed with cat in place.
1, if its in the air.
2, everything is detached from it. Heat sheields etc.
3, it follows a sort of Corkscrew path.
4, did I have a standard cat at the time.
(Not sure)
Regardless.
5. Absolutely much easier if the cat is removed as C says.
ditto with the cat pipe removed...
Quote from: Ardent on May 15, 2022, 16:17I think it can can be removed with cat in place.
1, if its in the air.
2, everything is detached from it. Heat sheields etc.
3, it follows a sort of Corkscrew path.
4, did I have a standard cat at the time.
(Not sure)
Regardless.
5. Absolutely much easier if the cat is removed as C says.
Just an update, as you say with all arms removed and the heat shield removed from the top of the subframe it corksrewed out a treat. The car is just on axle stands so wheels are off. Just a note this came out with the TTE twin exhaust intact and not lowered so very possible to remove without the need to dislodge the exhaust.. result 👍.
Just cleaning up the various bolts to get ready to install the new subframe and have a couple of questions for you knowledgeable lot 😊...
1. The four subframe mounting bolts appear to have a red threadlock on the threads, I assume I need to apply similar when refitting and it will be the stronger non removable version? For the suspension arms etc that might need to come off the weaker blue stuff would be best?
2.The camber bolts that go through the subframe have cleaned up pretty well. Thought about just getting new but then saw the price, and cleaned them up a bit more 😳. Thing is one washer has almost lost all the scale marks due to surface corrosion. Will this hinder a garage setting the alignment, I'm assuming not?
Re point 2.
I cannot see that being an issue.
I'm thinking how many crusty ones must be out there that cannot be used either.
I did a FL one last week, Toe arms still on (Seized bolts) moved anti roll bar (Drop links till attached) I did remove the bottom exhaust rubber. Twisted out no problems.
Quote from: mr2garageswindon on June 6, 2022, 14:39I did a FL one last week, Toe arms still on (Seized bolts) moved anti roll bar (Drop links till attached) I did remove the bottom exhaust rubber. Twisted out no problems.
Did you apply any threadlock to any of the bolts when you installed the new one please? Im thinking it might be wise but will the blue one do?
Today I installed the new subframe and returned the suspensions arms and struts to there rightful places. I've ordered a couple of new nuts for the rear lower suspension arm ball joint as this part is non-reusable. I am anticipating a bit of a fight to keep the ball joint still while I torque it up, has anyone got any tips please? If it was a vertical joint it would be easier to apply pressure to the back of it whilst tightening but this one sits behind the hub horizontally. I do not have an impact/airline driver so it will be good old fashioned spanners and sockets. I was think maybe a rachet strap to pull it in tight wrapped around the driveshaft?? Any suggestions most welcome to reduce the amount of inevitable cursing...
Quote from: BARNPOT2000 on June 7, 2022, 19:47Today I installed the new subframe and returned the suspensions arms and struts to there rightful places. I've ordered a couple of new nuts for the rear lower suspension arm ball joint as this part is non-reusable. I am anticipating a bit of a fight to keep the ball joint still while I torque it up, has anyone got any tips please? If it was a vertical joint it would be easier to apply pressure to the back of it whilst tightening but this one sits behind the hub horizontally. I do not have an impact/airline driver so it will be good old fashioned spanners and sockets. I was think maybe a rachet strap to pull it in tight wrapped around the driveshaft?? Any suggestions most welcome to reduce the amount of inevitable cursing...
If you have a large pair of pipe grips you can apply pressure behind the ball joint at an angle to the side of the nut to hold it together. I would apply some coarse valve grinding paste to the taper on the ball joint which helps stop it spinning while doing it up.. Shhh trade secret...
Quote from: mr2garageswindon on June 8, 2022, 15:28If you have a large pair of pipe grips you can apply pressure behind the ball joint at an angle to the side of the nut to hold it together. I would apply some coarse valve grinding paste to the taper on the ball joint which helps stop it spinning while doing it up.. Shhh trade secret...
Thanks, I'll try that 👍.
Just a quick update, rear suspension all torqued up and took her for a quick ride around to check for any untoward noises. No noises but wow, alignment must be way out now, it felt like I was driving on a bed of marbles, tyres squealing like I was flooring it and only doing 20 or 30 mph. I limped back home.i know it will need a full 4 wheel alignment done and I'll be booking it in at a local garage but has anyone else experienced this after suspension refresh? It has had 4 x kyb shocks, Tein 30mm lowerering springs, new front wishbones and drop link along with whiteline uprated arbs front and rear. I didn't expect it to be so "out". Hoping it's nothing more serious 🤞.
100% perfectly normal.
Quote from: Ardent on June 10, 2022, 20:02100% perfectly normal.
That's reassuring, thanks. It just shows how important the alignment is I guess 😎👍.
When I book the car in for the alignment is it important to have a garage with experience of our particular cars, or will any garage do? Also will the changes I've made, ie. Lowering springs and uprated arbs affect the alignment settings? Would you expect a decent mechanic to sort all this out and adjust settings accordingly?
No. No. Maybe. Yes.
It is worth paying for a quality geo. It's the technician and knowledge you are paying for. A proper tech will ask what you want and dial it in.
I had the same situation as you. New sub frame, kyb's, tein S and tyres. Was not until I had the geo done did it come together as a complete package.
Quote from: Ardent on June 10, 2022, 21:51No. No. Maybe. Yes.
It is worth paying for a quality geo. It's the technician and knowledge you are paying for. A proper tech will ask what you want and dial it in.
I had the same situation as you. New sub frame, kyb's, tein S and tyres. Was not until I had the geo done did it come together as a complete package.
Thanks, I've got a local garage that my neighbour has recommended ringing me back this morning. When you say they will ask what I want hopefully you don't mean specific figures as I wouldn't know where to start 😕. I can tell them it's for road use only, not track use, that's about it, oh, and it needs to stick to the road like glue and go around corners like it's on rails 😂.
Has anyone got any advice as to the settings required for a 4 wbeel alignment after fitting 30mm lowering springs please? Garage can do standard settings but is concerned that because of shorter springs alignment may not be correct.
Quote from: BARNPOT2000 on June 11, 2022, 08:31Thanks, I've got a local garage that my neighbour has recommended ringing me back this morning. When you say they will ask what I want hopefully you don't mean specific figures as I wouldn't know where to start 😕. I can tell them it's for road use only, not track use, that's about it, oh, and it needs to stick to the road like glue and go around corners like it's on rails 😂.
That's what I meant. They asked my usage, I said B road bandit. They did rest.
Good chance my settings are in here somewhere.
Search combo, ardent wheels in motion geometry etc
The Mr T TTE lowering springs are lower. But nowhere is it written that the geo has to be changed.
Quote from: Ardent on June 11, 2022, 20:24The Mr T TTE lowering springs are lower. But nowhere is it written that the geo has to be changed.
Thanks, yes I've been "googling" and other 30mm lowering springs are advertised as needing standard geometry set up so, fingers crossed it'll be fine with that. I've spoken to other garages who say they would do a standard set up then tweek it if suspension has been lowered.
Quote from: Ardent on June 11, 2022, 20:24The Mr T TTE lowering springs are lower. But nowhere is it written that the geo has to be changed.
This gives me some confidence that a standard set up will work with 30mm lowering 👍😎.
No doubt all our 2s will be mildly different on some level, but as an opener this was mine when I left wheels in motion.
Geo001.jpg
Quote from: Ardent on June 11, 2022, 22:37No doubt all our 2s will be mildly different on some level, but as an opener this was mine when I left wheels in motion.
Geo001.jpg
Thanks for uploading that sheet Ardent. I'm assuming the target settings are the standard settings/tolerances for the roadster, and the actual figures are how close they got to achieving those figures? Or have they chosen to deviate from the standard settings anywhere here please ?
More the latter.
Their B road setting. Or at least a bias towards it.
The car is booked in for alignment in a couple of days so fingers crossed they get it sorted 🤞. Thanks to all for their input and advice as always 👍😎.
That's what we do.
Quick update... The garage completed the alignment and sent photos of before and after settings. Here are the settings they achieved. I did query the rear offside camber as it is still showing in red but I was told that there is no camber adjustment possible on the rear. Only had a short drive since the setup and it seems to be driving very well.
IMG_20220614_164009.jpg
IMG_20220614_164000.jpg
adjustable camber bolts?
Quote from: J88TEO on June 15, 2022, 09:21adjustable camber bolts?
Can these be purchased for the rear? Maybe something for those who use the cars on track, probably not worth it for general road use I guess?
Just a quick sideshot after fitting new Kyb shocks and Tein 30mm lowering springs. I thought someone who might be considering installing these might like to see the effect it has. The wheels seem to fill the wheel arches much better now and the ride is great, not too harsh, just right for me anyway. The wheel sizes are... front 185/55R15 and rear... 205/45R16.Tyres will be changed for better ones at some point but they have too much tread to warrant that atm 😊👍😎.
IMG_20220615_153423.jpg
Looking great!
Quote from: BARNPOT2000 on June 15, 2022, 14:37Can these be purchased for the rear? Maybe something for those who use the cars on track, probably not worth it for general road use I guess?
Not too sure...
Quote from: BARNPOT2000 on June 15, 2022, 14:37Can these be purchased for the rear? Maybe something for those who use the cars on track, probably not worth it for general road use I guess?
Certainly. A plethora of such can be found on the www.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=2002+toyota+mr2+adjustable+rear+camber+bolts&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari
Other model years can likely apply.
Lots of camber bolts out there, and not expensive, but are they worth getting? The original set up didn't require them and so I wonder if using a car on our roads only and not on track if they give much advantage?
I suppose if the rear camber is way out then perfectly OK to use to correct it.
Quote from: J88TEO on June 16, 2022, 08:21I suppose if the rear camber is way out then perfectly OK to use to correct it.
Do you think my offside rear camber is out enough to warrant further adjustment?
Quote from: BARNPOT2000 on June 16, 2022, 09:13Do you think my offside rear camber is out enough to warrant further adjustment?
I think your rear right tyre will wear on the inside more than the left. I would get this sorted.
There is a certain amount of play in the lower mounts, and even a tiny bit in the upper strut mount, and in most cars a couple tenths of a degree of possible adjustment. This is important on a MR2 with lowering springs, as the camber will go more negative when lowered. But a car with no damage or wear issues should still be within factory specs with springs like Tein. Our MR2 with Tein springs could be adjusted just enough without camber bolts to stay in the factory tolerances and get both sides nearly identical. Your left side cambers F&R are almost exactly what we got on our lowered MR2.
Some alignments shops see "camber is not adjustable" and don't even try. Many are not accustomed to working on a car with lowering springs, or any performance car. A local race shop that does very detailed alignments advised they always quoted the cost of camber bolts when doing alignment on a lowered car or any with a modified suspension, even if there is enough play to get in spec and they don't need them.
Quote from: Beachbum957 on June 16, 2022, 11:42There is a certain amount of play in the lower mounts, and even a tiny bit in the upper strut mount, and in most cars a couple tenths of a degree of possible adjustment. This is important on a MR2 with lowering springs, as the camber will go more negative when lowered. But a car with no damage or wear issues should still be within factory specs with springs like Tein. Our MR2 with Tein springs could be adjusted just enough without camber bolts to stay in the factory tolerances and get both sides nearly identical. Your left side cambers F&R are almost exactly what we got on our lowered MR2.
Some alignments shops see "camber is not adjustable" and don't even try. Many are not accustomed to working on a car with lowering springs, or any performance car. A local race shop that does very detailed alignments advised they always quoted the cost of camber bolts when doing alignment on a lowered car or any with a modified suspension, even if there is enough play to get in spec and they don't need them.
I'm sure you'd right the guy I used was recommended by a neighbour but I didn't get the impression he did anything but what the machine said and he hadn't done an alignment on an Mr2 mk3 before. I need to find a garage that can tweek my rear 😂.
Like I said it is down to the technician to extract the best out of it.
I used wheels in motion in but sadly the guy behind it has passed away so is it as good? I don't know.
Depending where you are.
https://centergravity.co.uk/
Not tried them. So not a recommendation
Quote from: Ardent on June 16, 2022, 19:58Depending where you are.
https://centergravity.co.uk/
Not tried them. So not a recommendation
Thanks Ardent, I'm a bit remote out here in Norfolk. Need to locate someone similar to centre gravity but within striking distance.
Quote from: BARNPOT2000 on June 16, 2022, 22:54Thanks Ardent, I'm a bit remote out here in Norfolk. Need to locate someone similar to centre gravity but within striking distance.
How about:
https://www.strservicecentre.co.uk/4-wheel-alignment/
As Ardent,, not tried them, just used the www.
Quote from: Joesson on June 17, 2022, 10:21How about:
https://www.strservicecentre.co.uk/4-wheel-alignment/
As Ardent,, not tried them, just used the www.
Thanks Joesson, lots of garages out there but nothing caught my eye, but STR I hadn't spotted, they look like they might be worth a shot, and pricing looks reasonable, cheers 😎👍.
Anyone found these cheap camber tools to be any good?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284470235696?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=RjIPekt9Qk-&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=6h-f4Xk3SSu&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
You want to measure camber with the wheel on the ground and the car loaded. Measuring at the rotor does not seem useful. Plus it only seems to measure in full degrees, again not useful.
We use a magnetic digital level that measures in a tenth of a degree with a simple angle bracket. The floor must be perfectly level where the car sits. We set camber with this and then had it checked on a fancy alignment rig, and they matched
(https://i.ibb.co/z8SMcRr/Camber-Gauge.jpg) (https://ibb.co/z8SMcRr)