MR2 Roadster Owners Club

The Common Room => Reader's Rides => Topic started by: Anon on May 30, 2022, 15:05

Title: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: Anon on May 30, 2022, 15:05
Well maybe I shouldn't, but I bought this.... does anyone know its history of how this car came about?

It shat all its coolant out on the trailer while unloading it, and it idles at 2000rpm because the idle control valve is all shagged inside, but all that is pretty irrelevant because the TPS sensor is both knackard and wired up the wrong way, so it was trying to idle at full throttle and at idle it thinks its at WOT!

Who does this stuff really. I bet it was dog slow all the time at the fuel control is screwed up. Plus it had 3 major vacuum leaks so the fuel trim was all goofed up.

The idler bearing on accessory belt is screaming its head off, and on the verge of letting go. Water leak was the O ring on the water pump... and "very coincidentally" it came with a brand new water pump in the spares box which was dated as manufactured 27/07/2021.

But at least its not a rotten POS ! No upside down welding requred.


(https://i.ibb.co/cr6RT4R/IMG-20220419-WA0000.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cr6RT4R) (https://i.ibb.co/MNN9tnH/IMG-20220419-WA0001.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MNN9tnH) (https://i.ibb.co/Ky3SFWx/IMG-20220528-WA0002.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Ky3SFWx)
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: MattPerformance on May 30, 2022, 16:26
Hi Matt
The car was built and the conversion was done by Megillian Motorsport.
I can't speak for the TPS issues or the vacuum leaks but I did three track days in the car and it performed faultlessly.  I suspect there must have been some concern with the water pump (hence there being one with the car) but I can only imagine that the water leak happened as a result of the car standing for the last couple of months as it was absolutely fine when I used it until that point.
On the plus side, the water pump is an easy job and by the look of it, the TB issues should be a quick and cheap fix.
Notwithstanding its imperfections that we knew about and those that we didn't, "horrific" is a bit harsh!!
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: MattPerformance on May 30, 2022, 18:15
I quite agree that an awful lot of the cosmetic stuff leaves a lot to be desired (fueboards flapping about etc), but I stand by the fact that mechanically and structurally it is completely sound, albeit that it sprang a water leak that I didn't know about nor had I experienced (but changing if the water pump isn't exactly a big deal - if I'd known about it I'd have done it myself).
I have no doubt that you'll enjoy the car once you get it to the standard that you're happy with.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: Alex Knight on May 30, 2022, 19:37
That looks furking horrific.

Bon chance.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: 1979scotte on May 30, 2022, 20:41
I've owned worse.
Best of luck with it.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: SuperArt on May 31, 2022, 21:33
Quote from: 1979scotte on May 30, 2022, 20:41I've owned worse.
Best of luck with it.

Mate it's bloody close. This looks/sounds tragic.

Anon fairplay to you going into this project eyes open, all the best.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: 1979scotte on May 31, 2022, 22:41
Quote from: SuperArt on May 31, 2022, 21:33Mate it's bloody close. This looks/sounds tragic.

Anon fairplay to you going into this project eyes open, all the best.

Until someone shows me a subframe that folds in half under its own weight I'm not convinced.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: Joesson on June 1, 2022, 08:37
The expression What you see is what you get doesn't always hold good as what you don't see comes with it.
The Op's car was trailered home, not driven away, whereas another member bought from a (now ex)  member, and drove many miles home to uncover the truth.
Experience comes in good and bad forms and some leaves a bitter taste.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: J88TEO on June 1, 2022, 09:37
Looking decent...
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: tricky1138 on June 1, 2022, 10:40
Looking much better already!
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: MattPerformance on June 2, 2022, 21:19
Quote from: Joesson on June  1, 2022, 08:37The expression What you see is what you get doesn't always hold good as what you don't see comes with it.
The Op's car was trailered home, not driven away, whereas another member bought from a (now ex)  member, and drove many miles home to uncover the truth.
Experience comes in good and bad forms and some leaves a bitter taste.


When you dissect what the buyer has said, you can see that the car is far from horrific, not to mention that a lot of the parts that he has since fitted were actually included in the sale, £4400 for a really clean shell (by his own admission), 2zz conversion that did spring a water pump leak but is otherwise perfect, decent exhaust (not just your cheap and cheerful swap manifold), full cage, coilovers, hard top, buckets, harnesses, fire extinguisher system, Sparco wheel with QR hub and a car load of spares.... That's hardly going to leave a bitter taste in anyone's mouth!
As I mentioned earlier though, some of the details of the original build left a bit to be desired but they didn't affect functionality one iota.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: Call the midlife! on June 3, 2022, 08:48
Quote from: MattPerformance on June  2, 2022, 21:19When you dissect what the buyer has said, you can see that the car is far from horrific, not to mention that a lot of the parts that he has since fitted were actually included in the sale, £4400 for a really clean shell (by his own admission), 2zz conversion that did spring a water pump leak but is otherwise perfect, decent exhaust (not just your cheap and cheerful swap manifold), full cage, coilovers, hard top, buckets, harnesses, fire extinguisher system, Sparco wheel with QR hub and a car load of spares.... That's hardly going to leave a bitter taste in anyone's mouth!
As I mentioned earlier though, some of the details of the original build left a bit to be desired but they didn't affect functionality one iota.
That's a lot for the money to be fair, I've thrown more than that at mine over the last few years just making it worse 🤓
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: MattPerformance on June 3, 2022, 13:54
Blah blah blah
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: Alex Knight on June 3, 2022, 21:16
Quote from: MattPerformance on June  3, 2022, 13:54Blah blah blah

To be fair to the OP, this is a rather childish response.

If I had sold a car that genuinely had the issues the the OP stated, I'd be embarrassed, and doing my utmost to resolve them in an amicable and adult manner.

That your response does neither of these (to my knowledge) speaks volumes.

There was a route you could have chosen, and you didn't. In my humble opinion, that does not reflect you in your best light.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: MattPerformance on June 3, 2022, 22:02
Quote from: Alex Knight on June  3, 2022, 21:16To be fair to the OP, this is a rather childish response.

If I had sold a car that genuinely had the issues the the OP stated, I'd be embarrassed, and doing my utmost to resolve them in an amicable and adult manner.

That your response does neither of these (to my knowledge) speaks volumes.

There was a route you could have chosen, and you didn't. In my humble opinion, that does not reflect you in your best light.

You're welcome to your opinion.

All I'm seeing here is a rant about the build quality of the car (not my doing and was all there to see when he collected the car), acceptance in fact, that the car was fair value and a moan about some niggling issues that he made no attempt to discuss with me, all of which seem to have been resolved in an afternoon.
If someone buys something and their first course of action is to rant on a forum instead of contacting the seller (although, AGAIN, he appears to be satisfied with the car actually) then I don't believe it's my responsibility to do anything.
Whatever the OP might think, the car is mechanically sound, did three track days without missing a beat and then stood for a couple of months before being sold.  I don't think I have anything to answer for at all, let alone be embarrassed about.
The FOC brand new full set of Yellowstuff brake pads, spare head lights, spare rear lights, spare bumpers, free car cover, spare driveshafts, MOTUL 600 brake fluid, 2x complete sets of brake discs, alternator, water pump (and prob a few things I've forgotten to mention) don't get a mention (ok, so the water pump does) but the 22 year old wheels do because, although they were FREE, two of them apparently have buckled (although how bad, I don't know).
If the OP was looking for support from me then he only needed to get in contact but he actually seems to be happy with the car, oh and all the free parts he got.  Again, not exactly horrific!
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: MattPerformance on June 4, 2022, 08:09
Spare hand brake cables - I knew I'd forgotten some other free spares that I'd included.

And the rear pads were very low which I did mention (new ones supplied and I explicitly mentioned that I hadn't changed them so that the buyer could see that the new pads were truly new (in the box!).

When describing the 2zz mechanically I should have said "perfectly serviceable" as opposed to perfect (it ran perfectly for me!).

PS. I hadn't realised the "horrific" label was meant as a joke (neither did others from what I read). FWIW, I described it as ghastly!

Anon: rest assured that there's nothing wrong with the HG. Enjoy the car for what it is, but beware running it on slicks cause the 2zz oil system is not renowned for being able to keep up with big lateral Gs....
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: Hammond on June 8, 2022, 16:23
Quote from: Anon on June  8, 2022, 15:48Missing part for the belt and pulleys turned this morning. In a quiet hour at work today managed to get these bits swapped over, and it made the engine much quieter at tickover.

(https://i.ibb.co/qn3ZX2H/20220608-120032.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qn3ZX2H) (https://i.ibb.co/gmKV3Fd/20220608-093505.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gmKV3Fd) (https://i.ibb.co/xS0pTG6/20220608-121136.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xS0pTG6)


Also made the Fog Light a proper OEM setup. Turns out the MR-S imports have all the wiring in the factory loom for the fog light, all you need is a UK rear right cluster with the bulb holder in place. Then under the dash near the mirror adjuster button there is an un-used connector. Join the yellow wire to the red/white wire and the rear fog light comes on, and the yellow rear fog indicator in the dash illuminates. So with an MR2 front fog light switch, you can have a near OEM rear foglight functioning in the import. You cannot use a UK spec set of stalks in a JDM import, the connectors are pinned differently and one of the connectors is physically different. So indicators on the right it stays.

Lastly, took the car for a little drive to make sure everything works. Turns out the ABS is doing something weird, I think one of the wheel speed values is not reading correctly. So when you try to brake it fights against you, which is not what we want really.

Also have a set of Whiteline ARB's and these nifty improved drop links from spring-loaded suspension, amazing service from them, super fast delivery.


(https://i.ibb.co/r6NHP22/20220608-154621.jpg) (https://ibb.co/r6NHP22)

Have you got a link for the drop links?
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: Joesson on June 8, 2022, 20:38
Quote from: Anon on June  8, 2022, 18:39I bought via ebay.. these items

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281940020171
RoadNutz Rear Adjustable Drop Links x2 for Toyota MR2 1.8i 1999-2007 ZZW30

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/293519072893
Rear Drop Links for Mitsubishi Colt 1.8 GTi 4G93 CA5A 1992 to 1996 = Front MR2 with longer thread


Your second item was a good find, resolves the issue of insufficient thread length to accommodate an aftermarket/ Whiteline ARB.
On the same eBay page, I guess you noticed Roadnutz offering Front drop links for the Roadster, but noted as NOT suitable for Whiteline ARB.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: Chilli Girl on June 11, 2022, 20:17
Brilliant news and work done by you.  I don't reckon it's "horrific" now. It looks a great car, well done. ;D
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: fawtytoo on June 12, 2022, 10:40
Your "horrific" car looks better than mine.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: JB21 on June 16, 2022, 16:56
If you've paid less than £4k and the engine and chassis is solid then you've not done bad at all.

I've got loads of auxiliary engine parts if you need anything.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: Mark A on June 17, 2022, 17:03
Interesting geo setup, any experience with that set up? I'm always interested in what other people are running in the quest for handling nirvana.

Mine is pretty similar
Front camber -2.25
      caster  2.5
      toe -    .03
Rear camber  -1.3
     toe       .01
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: JB21 on June 18, 2022, 09:52
Quote from: Mark A on June 17, 2022, 17:03Interesting geo setup, any experience with that set up? I'm always interested in what other people are running in the quest for handling nirvana.

Mine is pretty similar
Front camber -2.25
      caster  2.5
      toe -    .03
Rear camber  -1.3
     toe       .01

My 2ZZ track set up, works very well with current chassis hardware.

front (each side) camber -3.00/toe out -1mm
rear (each side) camber -3.00/toe in +2mm
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: JB21 on June 18, 2022, 11:26
Quote from: Anon on June 18, 2022, 10:17Is that toe in/out really in mm's? Where is it measured from?

mm yeah. What do you mean measured from?

1mm = °0.09 running a 15" rim
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: JB21 on June 18, 2022, 12:02
Quote from: Anon on June 18, 2022, 11:50How do you work that out? Where do you measure this 1mm? Or do you measure in degrees?

When I do some basic Trigonometry on a 15" - 381mm wheel, I cannot get anything line this conversion factor, I get 1mm = 0.3 degrees.

Educate me :)

mm is used when aligning toe via the string method.

Conversion chart below from trackace

http://www.trackace.co.uk/Manual/Conversion%20Chart.pdf
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: Alex Knight on June 23, 2022, 22:29
That is astonishing. Would make me want to check every nut and bolt on the car.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: Chilli Girl on June 24, 2022, 20:01
Your doing brilliantly with this - really well done, it's good to see it all coming together. ;D
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: Hammond on June 24, 2022, 21:36
Quote from: Chilli Girl on June 24, 2022, 20:01Your doing brilliantly with this - really well done, it's good to see it all coming together. ;D

I couldn't agree more! This is tidying up nicely.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: J88TEO on June 29, 2022, 14:33
Looks like that's the culprit!
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: Chilli Girl on June 29, 2022, 15:40
Quote from: Anon on June 29, 2022, 14:10Project Horrific strikes again!!

Been out for a drive about this morning, another shake down.

Turned it off, then it wouldn't restart. Cranks over mega slow.

It did this last week outside a mates house. This time though it wouldn't start.

Got 2 girls to give it a push and it started OK. Brought it back home, wouldn't start again. Went for a brew for 15 mins, then it would start again.

Voltages are good, charging/alternator is good. No voltage drops over the cables or ground straps etc.

Pretty sure the starter is getting stiff/draggy when its hot, or 1 of the 4 brushes inside isn't contacting.

Best get this starter motor dropped off the car tonight and strip it down.

Good girls!

Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: 1979scotte on June 29, 2022, 17:11
Quote from: Anon on June 23, 2022, 21:26Fitted some engine mount inserts tonight, and some brooks shifter linkage bushes.

(https://i.ibb.co/0yBQYZR/20220623-193620.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0yBQYZR) (https://i.ibb.co/KKCFKT0/20220623-210636.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KKCFKT0)


But on taking the engine mounts off, look at the state of the top bolt in the front engine mount  :o


Whoever put the engine in this car needs taking off the tools ASAP. Are they having a few cans on the job?  :-\  Everything I look at is a bit half arsed or buggered up.

Luckily a quality tap sorted the thread out and all came good.

Tomorrow I get to collect the freshly painted hard top and bonnet, can't wait to see the car all the same colour.


Welcome to the world of modified 2s.
Most are bodge jobs.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: Alex Knight on July 2, 2022, 07:22
Feel free to replace the drilled discs with blanks. Drilled just end up cracking between the holes with the heat, and aren't really needed.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: 1979scotte on July 2, 2022, 07:50
Quote from: Alex Knight on July  2, 2022, 07:22Feel free to replace the drilled discs with blanks. Drilled just end up cracking between the holes with the heat, and aren't really needed.

I found they made more noise and dust.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: AJRFulton on July 2, 2022, 09:06
Quote from: Alex Knight on July  2, 2022, 07:22Feel free to replace the drilled discs with blanks. Drilled just end up cracking between the holes with the heat, and aren't really needed.

Depends on the quality of the disc, surely? Been around M cars a lot over my life and the quality drilled discs only start to crack when they get quite worn - cheaper replacements start going far, far, far sooner.

Tarox - Sport Japans were my go-to road disc (when I liked fast road cars) never had any issues with cracking on the 370Z and a 500bhp M135i I ran them on.

Personally would always go grooved on a track car, but a world of difference between discs costing £50, £100, £300, etc.

As for the AR1 - I've found that the fastest track tyre (that's still road legal) on the MR2. Closely followed by the A052. You see mixed reviews of the AR1, but mostly heavier cars or people running far to high a pressure. Set them about 24psi cold on the MR2 and you'll not be far wrong. The AR1 is especially useless tyre in if track has anything more than patchy damp patches - they drop off quickly if they lose heat (which is maybe why I'd use A052's unless chasing lap times - work well in the damp and less thermally sensitive)
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: SuperArt on July 2, 2022, 21:37
Strewth, never ending the amount of botch-work you're discovering.
Still, one way to look at it is you're finding out about these issues while you're not in the car. I'd hate to find out on a track day, would be too late then.

I concur with earlier comments, never seen a single modified two that hasn't been bodged, such is the nature of a cheap car nobody spends the dough doing jobs correctly.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: Alex Knight on July 3, 2022, 07:54
Quote from: AJRFulton on July  2, 2022, 09:06Depends on the quality of the disc, surely? Been around M cars a lot over my life and the quality drilled discs only start to crack when they get quite worn - cheaper replacements start going far, far, far sooner.

Tarox - Sport Japans were my go-to road disc (when I liked fast road cars) never had any issues with cracking on the 370Z and a 500bhp M135i I ran them on.

Personally would always go grooved on a track car, but a world of difference between discs costing £50, £100, £300, etc.

Any drilled disc for the MR2 is going to be aftermarket, and not OEM. These WILL crack with hard enough use.

Horses for courses, but the MR2 simply does not need anything 'better' than plain OEM discs in track.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: 1979scotte on July 4, 2022, 18:01
Feel your pain mate.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: AJRFulton on July 5, 2022, 12:54
I'm guessing you did you not have the fuel tank out to replace the linkages?
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: AJRFulton on July 5, 2022, 15:20
Quote from: Anon on July  5, 2022, 13:28Didn't touch the tank, just lubed up the stuck brake cable from both ends. And the bushes were done just in situe.

I think someone might have started to do the brake cables, but then quit after a few bolts. Thus the new cables included with the car. Seems like lots of half started half finished stuff on this.

I've ordered a new clutch and light weight flywheel for it last night. And I have this brand new old stock gearbox in my shed to use too. So that will whisk a few nights away doing a tidy job of that.

On a positive note while the car was working, I think I might have been one of the quickest lappers out there. On those warmed up semi slick AR-1 tyres and current suspension components it has more grip than I have ability and balls!

And I didn't really get into it fully with the short amount of working time. Some douche in a MK1 MR2 leaked oil all the way round the track so play time stopped for almost an hour. Plus a bit of rain in the morning too. Didn't get much party time before the clutch stopped play. The MK1 looked pretty rough race car type affair, I didn't talk to them though before he left.

I thought I had read you had replaced the linkages, but it was just the bushes.

I don't understand why you'd only put 3 bolts in a fuel tank, it's not even as if they are hard to access (like the engine mount bolt)
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: MattPerformance on July 6, 2022, 06:53
Quote from: Anon on July  4, 2022, 17:46I really am starting to think very little of the cars previous keepers indeed.

Rough luck with the clutch.

I completely agree that the workmanship on the build is extremely shoddy based on all the things that you've found but that's not the fault of the people that have owned the car (you can clearly see that the car has been used very little since the 2zz conversion and track build) - that's down to the person that did the work (which was neither of the last two owners!)
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: JB21 on July 6, 2022, 08:11
Seems this is a mix of shoddy workmanship and just plain bad luck. You'll get there mate.

Thought Rogue Motorsport were at bit shoddy in my build but reading some 2zz builds on here and Spyder chat its not really. Just stupid small overlooked things on mine that caused me real pain. Like not spacing the dipstick correctly leading to engine failure, and using a 1zz clutch plate leading to clutch failure. The rest of the build is spot on TBF, and looks like now I have rectified these issues I have a quality build.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: s12vea on July 6, 2022, 14:40
Quote from: JB21 on July  6, 2022, 08:11Seems this is a mix of shoddy workmanship and just plain bad luck. You'll get there mate.

Thought Rogue Motorsport were at bit shoddy in my build but reading some 2zz builds on here and Spyder chat its not really. Just stupid small overlooked things on mine that caused me real pain. Like not spacing the dipstick correctly leading to engine failure, and using a 1zz clutch plate leading to clutch failure. The rest of the build is spot on TBF, and looks like now I have rectified these issues I have a quality build.

You would expect better from Rogue as they have completed many 2zz swaps and they do charge accordingly!
I guess it can happen with any engine swap and once those bits are sorted you both will have the car exactly how you want.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: MattPerformance on July 6, 2022, 19:50
This wasn't a Rogue swap.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: 1979scotte on July 6, 2022, 21:07
Quote from: MattPerformance on July  6, 2022, 19:50This wasn't a Rogue swap.

Nobody thinks it is mate as far as I can tell
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: SuperArt on July 6, 2022, 23:17
Quote from: SuperArt on July  2, 2022, 21:37...I'd hate to find out on a track day...

Really should've kept my mouth shut.
Sorry.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: MattPerformance on July 7, 2022, 08:22
Quote from: Anon on July  7, 2022, 07:53So was the engine put in by Megillian Motorsport ?

Yes; the whole build was.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: JB21 on July 7, 2022, 09:26
Don't even get me started on Megillian, guy is a whopper! Paid for a half cage back when I first got my 2 and he just totally blanked me once he had received payment. Took months to claim my money back. He done this to a few people at the time. Sure he still trades as well.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: Zxrob on July 7, 2022, 10:05
Anon

Man your having a time with it >:(

After 3 years of ownership, I have mine handling and feeling pretty good (imo), having done a couple of trackdays i'm more than happy with the feel of the car and the confidence in the bends, being a bog standard 1ZZ it gets hammered on the straights, ok frustrating, I have contemplated going down the 2zz route but hearing and reading some experiences, think I'll stick with me slow old girl

Rob
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: SuperArt on July 7, 2022, 12:09
Quote from: JB21 on July  7, 2022, 09:26Don't even get me started on Megillian, guy is a whopper! Paid for a half cage back when I first got my 2 and he just totally blanked me once he had received payment. Took months to claim my money back. He done this to a few people at the time. Sure he still trades as well.

Lot of folk defending that chap saying he's got his hands full with work and personal life etc.
Load of rubbish. Shouldn't take any side jobs on if there isn't the extra resource/bandwidth to meet obligations to paying customers.
I had a low opinion of them as a business but after seeing their work here I have even lower opinion of them as an engineering outfit.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: Mark A on July 8, 2022, 11:29
Other alternatives available from members on this forum
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: Joesson on July 8, 2022, 13:42
Anon said
I really like this product on their website....
https://www.megillianmotorsport.com/store/mr2-roadster-full-brace-kit


Seems like there are a few Massive Whoppers at least in the MR2 game.


I did notice that but didn't comment, nor have I had ( or likely to have) any dealings with a Company/s! that demonstrate such (in)attention to detail.

Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: SuperArt on July 18, 2022, 18:51
Quote from: Anon on July 16, 2022, 08:49The moment when the clutch went....


Gingerly prods throttle
"oh... hang on, that's not quite right, was that the clutch? Well the engine still works..."
Back on W.O.T.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: shnazzle on July 31, 2022, 00:32
That'll do it. 

Looks like a bog standard UK spec 6-speed with LSD. Guessing someone swapped the final drive from 2zz into it. 

LSD pre-load is the biggest issue with DIY gearbox work. Hence people pay a trusted person to sort it, with the correct tools.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: AJRFulton on July 31, 2022, 08:46
All the gearboxes are stamped C60, without knowing the donor car it's guesswork looking from the outside exactly which variant of the C6x it is - and that's before considering somebody having played about with it - although if it has been tracked the synchros may have been replaced as these are prone to going (2-3 particularly) - may explain why it's been opened.

Imo the c6x gearbox is geared badly for track. Changing the final drive has been on my to-do list for about 3yrs. I think going to a 5.1 final drive would transform the car on track.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: 1979scotte on August 1, 2022, 15:08
Quote from: Anon on August  1, 2022, 12:46I have a pair of drive shafts here that are thicker that came as "spares" with the car. I suspect they are from the 2zz donor Celica or Corolla etc.

They are in far better condition to the ones on the car, which have split boots and zero grease in 2 joints.

But it appears that the longer shaft of the pair (drivers side), is slightly longer than the MR2 ones.

The splines all seem the same, the ABS rings measure the same OD.

Which should I use? Are the thicker ones OK to fit?

Green ones in the picture are the "spares package" ones that came with the purchase of the car - I was told by the seller these are an upgrade and thus they were included with the car.

I've done a bit of googling already but it's hard to see the wood from the trees.

(https://i.ibb.co/bBsq8TQ/20220801-123850.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bBsq8TQ)

(https://i.ibb.co/XDF21s9/20220801-123900.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XDF21s9)

(https://i.ibb.co/v3b6NRj/20220801-123904.jpg) (https://ibb.co/v3b6NRj)





FL shafts are thicker aren't they?
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: JB21 on August 16, 2022, 12:38
Quote from: Anon on August 15, 2022, 20:16Went to three sisters again today for a track day.

Weather was good, first towing job for the Toyota Vellfire van which is lovely to use as a track day hospitality/repair suite. Van tows amazing compared to the Rav4.

Nothing fell off the car, nothing rattled, roof stayed together, all worked perfectly  ;D  ;D  ;D

Got some pretty quick laps in, last few sessions nothing passed me. There was an E36 beemer there that was pretty fast, in the morning I let him past a few times. In the afternoon as it dried up and gained some confidence I never saw him.

I fancy a tinker with the gear change, its really horrid. Struggle to find 2nd coming into tight corners - always have in my Celica, then the Corolla and both MR2's. Gear change on them is gammy.

I think we are ready for some bigger faster circuits. I feel this little car can go pretty fast round some big circuit bends  >:D


(https://i.ibb.co/WnVY2Y0/222d1fe983a-166d-4b4b-875a-98e46d8efc88.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WnVY2Y0)


What laps times were you putting out?
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: shnazzle on August 16, 2022, 18:56
Quote from: Anon on August 16, 2022, 16:23With a passenger in the car, on that track addicts app... 1:06:194

And a very damp session on my own 1:05:07 in the morning

And the best session in the afternoon I forgot to press record on the app, but I did have a really poor dash cam running, but its hard to measure frame by frame... It was still damn, but the line was pretty dry:-

01:05:18
01:05:15
01:05:21
01:05:01
01:06:18
01:05:19
01:06:02
01:05:16

The day ran really well though, a few cars broke down and got towed in, otherwise quite a good one.
That's some serious consistency
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: puma2 on August 17, 2022, 07:10
Quote from: Anon on August 16, 2022, 19:51Yeah consistently messy  :))

how dare you get in 106s :))  :))  that's bad :))  :))

defo not much in each lap for sure
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: JB21 on August 17, 2022, 07:51
Quote from: Anon on August 16, 2022, 16:23With a passenger in the car, on that track addicts app... 1:06:194

And a very damp session on my own 1:05:07 in the morning

And the best session in the afternoon I forgot to press record on the app, but I did have a really poor dash cam running, but its hard to measure frame by frame... It was still damn, but the line was pretty dry:-

01:05:18
01:05:15
01:05:21
01:05:01
01:06:18
01:05:19
01:06:02
01:05:16

The day ran really well though, a few cars broke down and got towed in, otherwise quite a good one.

Decent consistency.

3S is a killer on any car, it will highlight any slight weakness. Last time I was there I ended up using 3rd for most of the lap which was much easier on the engine, but I was still able to get consistent 1 minute laps. Using 2nd in parts only gained a second or so. My PB was a low 59s.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: JB21 on September 14, 2022, 10:54
Quote from: Anon on September 14, 2022, 09:42Been messing about with datalogging apps on the Android phones, all very impressive stuff for incredibly small money spent. It was watching the DannyDC2 MR2 race videos that really caught my eye.

Then came the stumbling block, the 2zz-ge MR2 uses an early Japanese ECU which doesn't comply with normal ODB2 KWP2000 communication, it uses some weird JOBD platform.

I was originally using TrackAddict but there was no way of getting it working on the JDM 2zz-ge ECU, but it turns out that RaceChrono does allow all weird and wonderful custom commands and stuff! Tinker time indeed.

After some googling, it turns out that someone has figured out the correct ELM327 commands for the JOBD ecus (on some Torque Pro gauge app forum), which is:-

ATIB 96 \n ATIIA 13 \n ATSH8213F0 \n ATSP4 \n 0100

So you put that in "Initialisation Commands" settings box, and pick protocol 4

(https://i.ibb.co/VqtGZff/setup3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VqtGZff) (https://i.ibb.co/PMvC0qZ/setup1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PMvC0qZ) (https://i.ibb.co/kB6X6ph/setup2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kB6X6ph)

And then we are datalogging throttle position, revs, vehicle wheel speed sensor, coolant temp.. all sorts. The down side is the refresh rate isn't amazing, and the more channels you pick the slower it gets.


(https://i.ibb.co/19VD356/logging2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/19VD356) (https://i.ibb.co/8mpFV1T/logging1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8mpFV1T)

Keep it sensible, just Revs, VSS and TPS and we are getting 2hz which is fair for a budget!

Then I really wanted brake pedal datalogging... it is good to see the braking points consistency etc. Thing is the 2zz doesn't have a brake pedal switch input (the 1zz Mr2 does though).

Using my scanner I noticed there is a channel for "power steering oil pressure switch" from when this is used in a Toyota Celica or Corolla which has a mechanical hydraulic steering pump with a pressure switch.

(https://i.ibb.co/vhd8Zy4/20220913-222233.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vhd8Zy4)

So I made a custom PID input in racechrono with an algorithm like this.. it uses PID 0x01E8 and it extracts bit 6 which goes from 0 to 1 if the oil pressure switch is high/low. Then x100 so the brake goes from 0% to 100%.


(https://i.ibb.co/ThZ1qWb/Screenshot-20220913-232444-Race-Chrono.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ThZ1qWb) (https://i.ibb.co/QH43fVS/custom-brake-channel.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QH43fVS)

Then I wired up a feed from the green brake light wire, which energises a relay, creating a ground on the PSOilPressure input pin D28 - because the oil pressure is a ground switch basically. So now we get a nice datalog with brake pedal input too.

This is all just using a super cheap £5 ELM327 bluetooth OBD2 device (beware some are very poor and some are semi functional, find a good one in the chinese lottery!). I also tried to use a Carista interface but I found the datalogging speeds were about 20% slower.

Coupled with a solid mount for a phone so the G force sensors are as accurate as possible and an external GPS receiver - I'm trying a Garmin GLO which claims 10hz, this should be a pretty nifty datalogging setup for an imbecile like me.

I've tried this previously with my JDM 2zz ecu and it just wouldn't connect. Guess you're using the Celica JDM ECU? Mine is the Corolla JDM ECU. Had to purchase a handheld JOBD scanner for faults.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: JB21 on September 14, 2022, 12:30
Quote from: Anon on September 14, 2022, 11:17If you want a known working ELM327, PM me your address and I'll send you one in a jiffy bag.

Did you mess with the initialisation stuff etc?

I bet if you use the initialisation string etc you'll be up and running as the JDM corolla will be on the same protocol as the celica one.

Thank you for the kind offer. I've got 2 ELM37 dongles, let me try again and if they dont work I'll take you up on the offer.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: AJRFulton on September 16, 2022, 12:00
Quote from: Anon on September 15, 2022, 22:44Been playing with this datalogging stuff tonight again. The Garmin GLO bluetooth GPS unit is ballistic for the money. I'm getting 0.6m to 0.7m location accuracy continually at 7 to 8 locations a second.

That blows my head off that you can track something so closely in the big big world we live in, for beer money.

I have found the OBD2 data logging is running with a delay of 526 milliseconds.

The VSS speed value from the ECU is lower than reality by 4%.

So here is graph with those two factors corrected....

(https://i.ibb.co/NnRkQhv/Screenshot-at-2022-09-15-22-32-34.png) (https://ibb.co/NnRkQhv)

But it goes to prove that GPS cannot measure very quick velocity changes, you can see the gear changes more realistic on the OBD red line.


The GLO is usually accurate to 0.1 seconds on track - I use one, but have a transponder as well for competition - so both run concurrently. The transponder measures to 1/1000th of a second, and be more or less spot on.

Just looking on Speedhive, and on Harrys Laptime at the last time I did competitive laps

Last 10 laps GLO + Harrys (to 1/100th of a second) vs the Transponder (to 1/1000th)

+ 0.15
- 0.08
- 0.01
+ 0.05
- 0.11
+ 0.06
- 0.06
+ 0.06
- 0.11
+ 0.14

That is the first time I've written them down to compare actually - usually just glance over and happy they are similar enough. I'd be quite happy to say it makes a phone based GPS lap timer accurate to about 0.1 of a second

It is great for an £80 bit of kit, and accurate enough to be useful for both competition and track days. I find the cornering speeds to be accurate enough as well using the GLO, so definitely useful for some secondary analysis.

A big improvement on the built in GPS on a phone (which I found to maybe as much as +/-0.75s). But that is a 1-2Hz refresh rate vs 8-10Hz.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: Alex Knight on November 18, 2022, 10:52
Great update.

I've personally melted a set of YellowStuff pads on the rear of mine (literally).

Switched out to XP10s and haven't looked back.

Interesting comment regarding the Meister Rs. That's unacceptable, and further justifies my decision to fit high quality (TEIN) coilovers.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: JB21 on November 18, 2022, 12:56
What days you doing? I've just missed an Oulton day due to Flu, so looking to book again. Potentially Saturday 3rd December.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: AJRFulton on November 18, 2022, 17:46
Quote from: Anon on November 18, 2022, 10:28Thus bought some carbotechs to see how they fair XP8 on the rear, xp10 on the back... hoping to shift a bit of brake bias forwards.

Only other thing to report was I found 3 out of 4 of the MeisterR coiler overs had come loose on the ride height adjuster lock nuts. Front right was physically rattling about.

Then did another Oulton day on Tuesday, but it was a wet one, very wet indeed. Like an idiot tried going out on the AR1 tyres, 2 laps and came back in! AR1's do not work on standing water, scariest drive ever. It rained less, moved over to a set of NS2R's I had, then enjoyed the rest of the day as a dryish line came along the track though out the afternoon. But the NS2R's have got nothing on the AR1's by along way. Spent quite along time chasing this little Ignis turbo that belongs to a friend. But shock horror... nothing fell off, nothing broke, no rattles!  :)

AR1's behave very like slicks despite being E rated. Any rain that's significant enough to cool the tyre (ie anything above a bit damp) and they are pretty useless. Still find them the fastest dry E Rated track tyre though.

Don't rate the NS2R on track at all, but will be a lot better in damp/wet than the AR1.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: thetyrant on November 29, 2022, 12:49
Quote from: Anon on November 18, 2022, 14:18I'm booked in for Wednesday 30th November and Friday 9th Dec. But maybe I could do another one, last jaunts before Christmas..... but you will be way faster than me  ;)


Might try and get booked on for 9th in my mini if places still available after the weekend, mini is currently my daily due to warranty issues with the usual daily so dont want to risk mini on track until im happy i have other transport, which i should know after weekend hopefully :)
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: JB21 on November 29, 2022, 13:19
Quote from: Anon on November 29, 2022, 13:03I can promise you the weather will be dry... because I've bought a set of wets  :))

I bought my full wets last year for this year's TD's and everyone has been dry, 9 in a row. Can't complain though really.

RS5's are unbelievable in heavy rain, good in light rain, poor in the damp and surprisingly half decent in the dry.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: Jay on December 10, 2022, 19:22
Really enjoyed that, you made great progress even against the low winter sun!

Didn't quite catch what happened at the end, everything okay?
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: JB21 on December 11, 2022, 11:52
110mph in 4th down island straight 👌

What gearbox and size tyres are you using?

Never seen 110mph in mine down there, must be a really strong engine. Most I've seen in 109mph and that was on 205/50/15 slicks on a hot day using 5th and braking very late.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: JB21 on December 11, 2022, 14:32
Be a C60 or C64 as the 4th gear speed matches the tyre spec.

Track days are always full of egos, as you say normally the expensive road cars.

Race series guys don't like being overtaken by road going track cars either.

Car seems to be going well now, you will be close to a sub 2 minute lap next year.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: KRAMSNEHPETS on December 13, 2022, 22:51
Taking my 2ZZ to Blyton Park 29th Dec, would be good if another 2ZZ was there to have a blast with!
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: thetyrant on December 15, 2022, 10:58
Quote from: Anon on December 14, 2022, 13:35As for the eye watering expensive Carbotech pads, I'm running XP10 fronts and XP8 rears...

Totally blown away at the braking performance on stock calipers and blue print OEM spec disks. If you bring the brakes in smoothly and ramp up the pressure (so you don't just lock up), you can press harder and harder crushing the front end of the car into the tarmac. All passengers have commented that the car is nuts in the braking zones.

But the main reason I'm posting this is the wear rate is fantastic, 4 track days in and there is barely anything gone off them. I'd be fitting the 3rd set of yellow rears at this point and maybe just about due for a 2nd set of fronts. Carbotech pads were expensive, but I'm pretty confident they are going to work out cheaper due to the wear rate.

Good to hear our pads are working well :D  i was pretty confident you would be impressed :) 

Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: JB21 on December 15, 2022, 12:50
Carbotech are ace. I've gone with PBS pro race this time around to see what they're like. I've got a feeling they will be false economy.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: J88TEO on December 15, 2022, 13:23
Quote from: Anon on December 14, 2022, 13:35easybleed caliper nipples, they have a 1 way valve in them
Thanks for the tip!
Just ordered 4.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: Alex Knight on December 15, 2022, 13:26
I too have made the switch from Yellowstuff pads to Carbotech (XP10 all round), and am still using Blueprint discs and stock calipers.
I've also got goodridge braided lines and motul RBF600 fluid.

The brakes are there and strong every time, and the pedal feel is resolutely consistent. That's all you can ask for, and that's what I've got. Highly recommended too.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: AJRFulton on December 15, 2022, 18:50
Looking forward to trying the XP8 pads, bought them ages ago but cars never been out on them.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: JB21 on December 16, 2022, 08:43
I'd like to try XP12 front and XP10 rear, as I still struggle to fire the ABS using XP10 front and XP8 rears when using slicks on a warm day. I'm also using MTEC c-hook discs and RBF660 fluid.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: thetyrant on December 16, 2022, 10:17

We used to send out stickers with pads but i got sick of nobody putting them on as they promised so havent had anymore made this year and now ive ran out, will get batch done next year though i think :)
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: Joesson on December 16, 2022, 16:09
Quote from: J88TEO on December 15, 2022, 13:23Thanks for the tip!
Just ordered 4.

They did work well when I first used them in the 1960's.
On my next car, having left them on my previous, I tried this:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Automatic-Brake-or-Clutch-Bleed-Tube-PWN189-25-cm-Long-Rubber-Bleeding-Pipe/371718568796?pageci=2f200531-23e5-4bc1-a484-676f0b0e5b1c&epid=19017017159&redirect=mobile

A simple length of rubber tube with an open and stopped end and a razor slit in the tubing to form a one way valve.
Can also be used on other car brakes and the clutch.
Probably requires marginally more brake fluid to use the tube against the bleed nipple valve which can be used without a tube to catch the fluid but does then make a mess.
I lost my original split tube over my many years of company cars, when I had no need of it, but got another tube when I started to service my 2.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: Carolyn on January 15, 2023, 15:24

Who you callin' old??  Mind you we do have drawers full of Whitworth stuff.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: Joesson on January 15, 2023, 15:25
Quote from: Carolyn on January 15, 2023, 15:24Who you callin' old??  Mind you we do have drawers full of Whitworth stuff.

Can't speak for the older member's on here, having only been around myself since the coming of the Atomic age but the changes in measurement (that of course relate to thread sizes) have been ongoing for some time, and still are:

https://ukma.org.uk/what-is-metric/uk-progress/uk-metric-timeline/
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: AJRFulton on January 18, 2023, 23:55
Quote from: Anon on January 18, 2023, 21:35Well I never, I have learnt something in all this cheek! British Standard Pipe actually is a Whitworth thread, just tailored around the external pipe sizes. Some things live on and on.

You'd love working on some of our systems at my work. British designed nuclear reactor, American boilers, American/British turbines, built around the time we changed to metric.....

Whitworth, Whitworth fine, UNC, UNF, BSP then the usual metric ISO threaded stuff, and sure I've missed a few. Often all found on the same system too.

Borrowing bolts from the store can be a right lottery.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: Joesson on January 19, 2023, 09:41
Quote from: AJRFulton on January 18, 2023, 23:55You'd love working on some of our systems at my work. British designed nuclear reactor, American boilers, American/British turbines, built around the time we changed to metric.....

Whitworth, Whitworth fine, UNC, UNF, BSP then the usual metric ISO threaded stuff, and sure I've missed a few. Often all found on the same system too.

Borrowing bolts from the store can be a right lottery.

As can selecting the correct spanner/ socket I guess!
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: JB21 on February 10, 2023, 12:37
Quote from: Anon on February 10, 2023, 12:07Well, went to Oulton Park for a wonderful dry warmish track day this morning. Track conditions were mint, the best I've ever seen. Was going to be the fastest day I've ever done there.

But I'm back home and its 12 o'clock  :'(

The gearchange was horrible from the get go... came back in, bleed the clutch up, adjusted the pedal.

Went back out, felt slightly better for 2 laps, but still it was reluctant to drop into gear.

Braking into cascades, went for 3rd... horrid whiring noise.... jumped into the runoff lane.

No gears will select, suspected clutch collapsed again or something.

But I'm guessing is really the syncros are buggered in 3rd, thus its crashing into gear hard and thus exploding the clutch disk.

But I'll find out when I take it to bits... it's time I fit that brand new gearbox in it that I've had stashed for this rainy day.

Sounds exactly like what mine is doing, albeit my synchro's seem fine. I've sourced a C64 out of a SC Exige with Quaife diff as a standby replacement. The gearboxs are the only thing letting the MR2 down IMO.They just dont like to be rushed, not bad at all at 7 tenths but at full attack they are a bit meh!
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: JB21 on February 10, 2023, 13:34
Quote from: Anon on February 10, 2023, 13:09I think you're at Oulton tomorrow from memory? Good luck and I hope you get more life out of it yet.

I'm feeling pretty gutted right now. But this car hammering game is full of trials and tribs.

My JDM Celica 190... the gearbox started to clunk really hard into 3rd.... that was it's second used gearbox too. My Corolla t-sport the syncro for 2nd totally failed and ground into 2ng gear.

Both cars I sold off spares or repair fully drivable with MOT etc, but stated the gearbox is buggered.

This one in my MRS doesn't have the crunch or the clunk, it just wont drop into gear and its got worse and worse over the last 4 oulton days. It was previously OK for a couple of hours, then went scabby, but today straight out in the morning I knew it wasn't right.

I know the oil is good as I checked it last week, and its clean as f* as its only done about 800 miles since the new clutch went in it. It's that fancy pants redline mt90 in there too. I drained every drip out of it by getting it upside down etc, then flushed it with some spare... it was really clean anyway. The cables are all good as I've disconnected the from the box to check the run freely a few months back.

It was like coming into a corner on the brakes, trying to find 3rd and it just won't have it.... which is really not what you need. If I slow it all right down it'll drop in but reluctantly. Like you're "forcing it in dry"  :))

Had to sell tomorrows day cheap as i wasn't taking the risk it playing up again.

Mine was doing exactly the same as yours jamming coming down the box at high revs on the brake even with a big dollop of rev match. Upshifts were absolutely fine. Once cold it was fine again. I think its either a tooth has snapped on the pressure plate or the disc is cracked.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: Joesson on February 10, 2023, 18:57
Although I qualify to answer your appeal by virtue of my number of years I cannot help directly with the problem. However those years do mean that I am aware of what are / were non synchronised or crash gear boxes. To drive these double de clutching  is/ was necessary.
My thoughts would be that the standard gear box, when used beyond it's design capacity of loads and revs, will tend to fail and perhaps the synchro function is the weak point.
It is likely that there are ways to strengthen the gear box but at some cost, whereas double de clutching is at no cost and should not affect the gearbox in any way, down side would be the extra time to de clutch twice.
There are How To's on the www, this came up first in the list on my search, other explanations are available:

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/top-gear-advice/top-gears-guide-driving-well-how-double-declutch

PS
Have a look at what Derek Smith, an ex police driving instructor has to say ,  6 posts in to this thread:

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=8&t=713071
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: JB21 on February 11, 2023, 08:21
Quote from: Anon on February 10, 2023, 22:38Toyota gearboxes are annoying for so many reasons, one being there is no part number on the casing.

But even if you get a nice gearbox, all it has is sticker like this....


(https://i.ibb.co/gdcshtp/20230210-205135-123.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gdcshtp)

Still no part numbers :( ... the only useful thing is the date code top left.. YEAR/WEEK... thus 21 week of 2004

I scanned that QR code with my wifes Android phone, at the bottom left next to the 026, I found it contained this text:-

F9 
04/21
010103
F5O7P-U 
K76408-5583       
233030015260       
303001E04000       
200504201614

And that line 303001E04000  .... well that is 30300-1E040

Toyota Corolla ZZE123R-DGFGFW 11.2001 - 02.2007 ZZE123..UKP C64
https://toyota-europe.epc-data.com/corolla/zze123r/1807/chassis/3301/30300/

I've got a feeling my current box is actually a C64 instead of a C60 as 6th gear seems very short indeed. Defo feels shorter than the box in my old Celica 190.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: JB21 on February 11, 2023, 10:33
Can you select all gears in yours when using the selector counter weight? Car off and cold obviously.

Mine is jamming into certain gears like this, not sure that's correct?
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: AJRFulton on February 11, 2023, 15:56
Quote from: JB21 on February 11, 2023, 10:33Can you select all gears in yours when using the selector counter weight? Car off and cold obviously.

Mine is jamming into certain gears like this, not sure that's correct?

It's not easy, but mine does go.

I just had a rebuild of the box (although still want to change ratios)
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: J88TEO on February 14, 2023, 15:38
Wow!
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: Joesson on February 14, 2023, 15:47
Rather like the the curate's egg!
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: JB21 on February 14, 2023, 17:00
Quote from: Anon on February 13, 2023, 23:26Had the first little session prepping for the gearbox swap, tonight had a good look at the shift lever mechanism. The new gearbox has all new rod and selector jiblets inside, so thought it would be good to use that stuff. The only bits I needed to keep from the faulty box what the shaft itself, the cast front housing, then all the external stuff.

(https://i.ibb.co/Z1Crr3B/20230213-213935.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Z1Crr3B)(https://i.ibb.co/PD9yv5J/20230213-212820.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PD9yv5J)(https://i.ibb.co/vxPJ7s2/20230213-232100.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vxPJ7s2)

All the old stuff has been cleaned down and wire brushed off to remove scum. But on fitting the pivot linkage bit it turns out the corolla box has not been drilled/tapped for it to bolt on. That is a job for another night as it needs to be pretty accurate and not balls up.

(https://i.ibb.co/M2Lt1t7/20230213-221805.jpg) (https://ibb.co/M2Lt1t7)(https://i.ibb.co/RjrG8pf/20230213-221728.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RjrG8pf)(https://i.ibb.co/CH8WzqM/20230213-221732.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CH8WzqM)

I've decided I'm not going to fit the LSD from the other box, it would be good to compare the difference to see how it drive without one, and I don't want to bugger up this nice new gearbox just yet. This might change my plan with the 2AR-FXE engine and EB60 gearbox because if the non LSD setup is a massive hindrance then I'll have to find one for the 2AR build going forwards.

New shaft mech looks very clean there. What gearbox does the shaft come from for it to work in a C60/C64 is it a C66?

I ask as I'd like to refresh mine as the gates feel sloppy.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: JB21 on February 14, 2023, 17:01
Quote from: Anon on February 14, 2023, 15:32(https://i.ibb.co/gdDrXK6/Whats-App-Image-2023-02-14-at-15-22-27-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gdDrXK6)

(https://i.ibb.co/Qmz1zSm/Whats-App-Image-2023-02-14-at-15-22-27.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Qmz1zSm)

Kaboom!


Wow! How old is that, what brand?
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: Alex Knight on February 14, 2023, 23:06
Great work so far.

I have a C64 Corolla gearbox too.
Yes, the housing needing drilling and tapping, but it's any easy job and took about 15 minutes.

If you do any kind of long drives in this car, fit a 6-speed MR2 6th gear.

You'll never see the rev limiter in 5th on track, so there is literally no point in having a silly short 6th gear.

Fit the LSD now while the box is off.
You'll wish you had down the line if you don't now. Ask me how I know.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: JB21 on February 15, 2023, 09:03
Quote from: Anon on February 14, 2023, 20:46I basically used all the functional parts that sit on the shaft from the new C64 Corolla gearbox, but fitted to the shaft and cast alloy nose part of the MR2 6 speed. Then all the external parts like the linkages are from MR2 6 Speed.

Here is a photo to better illustrate what bits I used.

(https://i.ibb.co/DVgCDz6/what-parts-from-what.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DVgCDz6)

My mentality was I didn't want to use any worn bits that operate the gates. Everything that could be used new is new. And tried to use new surplus bolts where ever possible for that lovely plated look.

I just prey I can get some good feeling operation when this is done. Gearbox probably will be nicest bit of the car! It was a lucky purchase spotting it on ebay, and I didn't need one at the time, but I knew one day it will come in very useful.


Thanks for the info.

I will look at purchasing all the shaft parts to freshen up the gates.

Is it possible for the external shift mech parts to wear too? I dont see any bushes or anything within the mechanism, but there is quite a bit of movement between the connecting parts.

MWR do a new set but they're expensive.

https://www.monkeywrenchracing.com/product/toyota-oem-shift-mechanism-mr2-spyder-2000-05-manual/
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: Joesson on February 15, 2023, 18:24
Anon said :
no swarf, as in no indication on a magnet?
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: Alex Knight on February 15, 2023, 23:30
Quote from: Anon on February 15, 2023, 23:09Alex, tell me what the difference was without the LSD? Where do you notice it? All weathers?

Lotus Elise always ran without, which I find odd.

This is setting the stall for the 2AR-FXE build, because an LSD for that EB60 I'm going to use is $2000 bucks. Now I was planning on running with the LSD, but if its that bad on a little 2ZZ-FE car without a diff then I'm going to have to dip into the kids university funds to cover it!

The difference was noticeable in that the power delivery was *much* more predictable post-apex after the LSD went in.

Beforehand, sometimes you would get a big gob of oversteer, sometimes you would spin the power away at the inside (unloaded) tyre. It was inconsistent.

I feel that adding the LSD has created a *bit* of low speed understeer, but it's well worth the slight compromise.

Now, I know what I'm getting on corner exit every time, and I can scribe a cleaner line without the inside wheelspin upsetting the balance.

It's actually made the mid-high speed balance a little more loose, which suits my style.

How this helps.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: JB21 on February 16, 2023, 08:27
Quote from: Anon on February 15, 2023, 23:03Throwing caution to the wind, totally knowing what I'm doing right  :)) , I thought it was time to have a go at taking the gearbox apart.

(https://i.ibb.co/KmJ98h6/IMG-20230215-WA0024.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KmJ98h6)


(https://i.ibb.co/m5vgfPB/20230215-213007.jpg) (https://ibb.co/m5vgfPB)

But trying to get some of the 5th and 6th gear components off the end under the end cap section I've hit a stage where I need some better pullers to take it apart any further. So I've left it at this stage for tonight.

(https://i.ibb.co/mDFQQby/20230215-224420.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mDFQQby)

I'm thinking that I might put my old LSD into the new gearbox, but I'm very scared as I don't want to bugger up the new gearbox. Thus if I take apart the old one and put it back together OK, I'll call that the training course.


Have a look at this video for changing the diff. Looks very easy the way he does it, especially if you're not changing the FD, its just a drop in.

Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: JB21 on February 21, 2023, 07:28
Great work, you can do mine now then if my gearbox is kaput  :))
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: mr2garageswindon on February 21, 2023, 16:52
Quote from: Anon on February 21, 2023, 16:33


That's when he knew... He Fluffed up
Not the 1st and won't be the last
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: JB21 on February 21, 2023, 18:38
Quote from: Anon on February 21, 2023, 16:33


🤣🤣🤣

To busy thinking of the fine details, then leave something big out. I do it all the time
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: Gaz2405 on February 21, 2023, 22:17
Quote from: Anon on February 21, 2023, 16:33


Reminds me of forgetting to put the loom extension on the the crank position sensor.....🤦
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: JB21 on February 22, 2023, 07:29
Quote from: Anon on February 21, 2023, 23:11I am having a pretty bad day.


Mess is now contained, all cleaned up into sealed safe containers, clothes in the wash, Anon in the shower.

At this moment in time thinking I picked the wrong hobby.

What an absolute nightmare  :o
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: puma2 on February 22, 2023, 07:44
 >:( fair play you are doing a lot of work on your 2 with some great pictures and write ups.
as you no its a frustrating time the old car spanners and problems happen. you dealt with this in a positive way and got some petrol left to start it up again.

keep going and iam sure when back up on the track it will all be worth that big smile only a 2 can give you :)  :)
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: AJRFulton on February 25, 2023, 22:06
Quote from: Anon on February 25, 2023, 18:35The big push happened, bit the other night, then got up and did 8am till 2pm today. New gearbox is in and working ace. Did a little 10 mile road test, no crunches, grinds, bangs, and it didn't shatt itself halfway across the village  ;D Clutch feels lovely, really glad I ditched the uprated pressure plate as it makes the pedal loads easier to press. Clutch line has been totally flushed out with fresh good quality fluid.

Having knocked the bearings out to do the diff swap, I had to replace both of the drive shaft rotary lip seals.

(https://i.ibb.co/MPfsrvm/20230225-082147.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MPfsrvm)(https://i.ibb.co/pdbQpfY/20230225-112534.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pdbQpfY)


I found a really nice used fuel tank locally, and did the internal fuel filter at the same time. Tank had a full washout so we are running on clean tank with out the typical crud in the bottom.

(https://i.ibb.co/hFpwj4g/20230225-123705.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hFpwj4g)(https://i.ibb.co/Z15jmSL/20230225-123510.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Z15jmSL)

(https://i.ibb.co/1d3cyxf/20230225-113233.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1d3cyxf)(https://i.ibb.co/GP8fc9y/20230225-123725.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GP8fc9y)

The fuel filter also houses the fuel pressure control valve... basically the pump pushes fuel into the filter element, then there are 2 filtered outlets. One goes to the engine feed, and the other to the pressure regulator.

This car is only 55k miles or something, but the filter was filthy. The fuel that came out the filter was black and had loads of water suspended in it. I suspect the filter housing catches the water as its velocity is slow though the filter element. Maybe, I'm only guessing, the water and dirty might interact with the pressure valve as it sloshes about under the mega hard cornering on the track? Just a thought that popped into my noggin to explain @AJRFulton found he got less fuel cut after doing his.

Yeah bud.

I found it largely eliminated my track day fuel starvation problem when changed. As said on the other thread - it was accidental discovery, if COVID hadn't happened I wouldn't have changed the filter.

I dare say it will still happen at low levels, but it was happening at 1/4 tank left!

I also cut the original fuel filter open on change and found similar to you.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: AJRFulton on March 8, 2023, 15:06
Quote from: Anon on March  8, 2023, 10:59I've been driving Project Horrific about to do errands to get a few miles on it for some shake down to hope prevent another 10am track day shats itself again adventure.

Well, I don't know why or what or who but this thing has found quite a bit more umph. I'd bet it's a solid 5% up on power. Goes like a rocket! And it seems to have a fair bit less transmission/road noise.

Is it the new fuel filter? Is it less drag in the gearbox? Or the fuel tank wash out?

Maybe 6 of one and half a dozen of the other

I'm curious if the fuel filter reduces the fuel starvation issue on your car too.

When do you next have a track day planned?
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: Alex Knight on March 8, 2023, 15:25
I've got an Open Pit Lane day at Blyton park on bank holiday 1st May for £159 which I thought was decent.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: AJRFulton on March 9, 2023, 09:48
Quote from: Alex Knight on March  8, 2023, 15:25I've got an Open Pit Lane day at Blyton park on bank holiday 1st May for £159 which I thought was decent.

Fair bit down the country for you.

I am jealous of the guys down South how many options they have available for track days. After Knockhill the next closest are Croft (400 mile round trip) and Oulton Park (500 mile round trip). 
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: Alex Knight on March 9, 2023, 11:46
Quote from: AJRFulton on March  9, 2023, 09:48Fair bit down the country for you.

I am jealous of the guys down South how many options they have available for track days. After Knockhill the next closest are Croft (400 mile round trip) and Oulton Park (500 mile round trip).

Yep, I've done most circuits in the UK, but Blyton remains on the to do list. It's a long way, but I love trackdays, and that's one of the compromises I accepted when moving from Bristol to Scotland.

I've managed to find a travel lodge 5 miles away for £23 per night.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: AJRFulton on March 9, 2023, 12:41
Quote from: Alex Knight on March  9, 2023, 11:46Yep, I've done most circuits in the UK, but Blyton remains on the to do list. It's a long way, but I love trackdays, and that's one of the compromises I accepted when moving from Bristol to Scotland.

I've managed to find a travel lodge 5 miles away for £23 per night.

I would love to do more track days further South but 2 trips to Croft and 1 trip to Anglesey has seen a combined total of about 30 minutes running (Didn't even get to Anglesey thanks to VOSA in full on pedantic mode).

Even Knockhill is a 150 mile round trip for me. However, big difference taking 1.75hrs to tow the trailer there to taking 5-6hrs.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: Carolyn on March 13, 2023, 09:32
We do try to encourage saving as many cars as possible, BUT.

We also acknowledge that many are beyond help! 

I know I couldn't keep mine in good shape without using breaker parts.

The club has always had an 'affiliated breaker', J-Spec (Andrew Henderson) being our current one.

If a member wishes to advertise parts from a car they are breaking, all they have to do is ask. 
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: Call the midlife! on March 13, 2023, 09:42
Quote from: Anon on March 13, 2023, 09:18Been ordering some little bits to replace any second hand gearbox linkage parts. This is a symptom of messing with old obsolete cars, had a message that another part I've ordered has come back as:-

Toyota 33520-17010 - SHAFT ASSY, FLOOR SHIFT CONTROL
Reason: Production stopped

I've been into messing with older cars, discontinued parts isn't really that helpful. Breaking cars becomes essential to keep the survivors alive.

The attitude round here so against breaking is quite bizarre, if people cannot privately break cars then they will predominantly weighed in for scrap because the big commercial breakers will not have the profit margins they require compared to late model cars.

Private back yard breakers really do provide an essential service to keep the survivors on the road, and are often ran by enthusiasts.
The stigma against breaking has relaxed quite a bit in recent years, the issue was created some years ago when cars were being culled at a rate of knots for fairly minor issues just to cash in on the parts value, with little regard to the long term survival rate of the type.
I would imagine probably 95% or more of the regular contributors and users of this forum have bought recovered parts from the recommended breakers, myself definitely included and will continue to do so as long as it's feasible.
I don't think a lot of the "backyard breakers" that pop up regularly on the social media groups understand what's actually involved in stripping a car for parts and making money out of it.
The amount of space a roadster takes up when you start to dismantle it is greatly disproportionate to the sum of its parts ...
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: Carolyn on March 13, 2023, 11:06
The club can have more than one, but it does need to be someone observing the law, or we could be held liable.

We have had more than one in the past.

Dean at Rutland MR2 used to be on our list, but he gave up the business as cars started getting harder to find and he found it was becoming unprofitable.
Title: Re: Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"
Post by: Carolyn on March 13, 2023, 12:59
Anon :

The club can always change.  We on the committee took over a few years ago in order to keep it alive.

Perhaps it's time for others to step forward and make it into what they'd like to see.

I can tell you from experience, it's getting harder and harder to find active participants.

People say they want events, then not enough folk sign up.  I've organised quite few over the years (even before I was a committee member) and it's just become a thankless task.

We can always hold an election for a new committee and see where that takes the club.