MR2 Roadster Owners Club

The Workshop => Performance Related => Topic started by: jvanzyl on December 12, 2022, 16:22

Title: Wideband controllers - plugging into Emanage Ultimate - how much to spend
Post by: jvanzyl on December 12, 2022, 16:22
Hi Folks,
I have myself am innovate LSU 4.9 Wideband, and the old emanage Ultimate. What I need is a controller.

Anyone out there have any experience with LD performance:
https://ldperformance.co.uk/product/wideband-controller-for-bosch-lsu49/

or do you have to spend big bucks on these things:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Innovate-3877-Digital-Wideband-Controller/dp/B00FFTAJPC

As long as the LD Performance one can do what it says on the label, I'm not too sure what I'd be spending all the extra cash on for the Innovate one?
Title: Re: Wideband controllers - plugging into Emanage Ultimate - how much to spend
Post by: Call the midlife! on December 12, 2022, 16:53
For the similar price as the Innovate you can get an AEM complete with gauge, can't see a gauge on the one you linked to?
I imagine the cheaper one will do just what it says on the tin, spend more and you get more features such as limits alarms etc but it depends what you're after.
Title: Re: Wideband controllers - plugging into Emanage Ultimate - how much to spend
Post by: thetyrant on December 13, 2022, 10:10
Do you just have a Wideband 02 sensor that goes in the exhaust but nothing else ?   

Title: Re: Wideband controllers - plugging into Emanage Ultimate - how much to spend
Post by: Gaz2405 on December 13, 2022, 11:22
Does the emanage have a voltage input for the wideband?
Title: Re: Wideband controllers - plugging into Emanage Ultimate - how much to spend
Post by: jvanzyl on December 13, 2022, 19:39
Quote from: Call the midlife! on December 12, 2022, 16:53For the similar price as the Innovate you can get an AEM complete with gauge, can't see a gauge on the one you linked to?
I imagine the cheaper one will do just what it says on the tin, spend more and you get more features such as limits alarms etc but it depends what you're after.

So here's the thing- if I were to spend that level of cash I'd try and combine it like GFB have here:
https://turbozentrum.co.uk/GFB-G-FORCE-III-electronic-boost-controller-Go-Fast-Bits?gclid=Cj0KCQiA4uCcBhDdARIsAH5jyUmHWHV7CNWiNkBMNVrmwgg-6-_jVRMP4GiWkyVxEgSAC5pldnUP0YkaAs_nEALw_wcB

Basically it's a boost controller that can cut boost when it detects afr going awry.. I'd still need the wide band controller mind.. so I'd end up with the cheap one still!

Quote from: thetyrant on December 13, 2022, 10:10Do you just have a Wideband 02 sensor that goes in the exhaust but nothing else ?   



Yup that's all I have currently.. I've got the cable that goes from the controller to the Emanage as well.

Quote from: Gaz2405 on December 13, 2022, 11:22Does the emanage have a voltage input for the wideband?

Yes- signal and ground. From what I understand I can then use the auto tune functionality.
Title: Re: Wideband controllers - plugging into Emanage Ultimate - how much to spend
Post by: Gaz2405 on December 13, 2022, 20:13
I'm not up in the emanage, but the EMU black uses either an on board controller or a 0-5v input (which I use).

The AEM wideband with gauge has a 0-5v output from the back of the gauge, so you get the gauge and a feed to the ECU
Title: Re: Wideband controllers - plugging into Emanage Ultimate - how much to spend
Post by: thetyrant on December 14, 2022, 10:04
I guess it depends how far you want to go but as a minimum you could get away with the controller from LD @ £59 to power up your wideband sensor and connect its 0-5v output to the Emanage input, i would probably add the AFR display for £29 so you can see the AFR live in front of you while driving.

I would not rely on Autotune but datalog and review/change map from that, some Autotune setups can work ok but it has a narrow window usually and often make crazy changes to map due to lack of brain power, so for example for tuning idle fuel mixture or steady cruising maybe it could be ok but its just not really clever enough for normal variable driving even at much higher price point Ecu's than the emanage.

Enjoy :)
Title: Re: Wideband controllers - plugging into Emanage Ultimate - how much to spend
Post by: Call the midlife! on December 14, 2022, 10:32
Just bear in mind the looms on the AEM will need extending and you'll need pins for the Emanage terminals possibly as well.
Title: Re: Wideband controllers - plugging into Emanage Ultimate - how much to spend
Post by: jvanzyl on December 14, 2022, 16:45
Quote from: Call the midlife! on December 14, 2022, 10:32Just bear in mind the looms on the AEM will need extending and you'll need pins for the Emanage terminals possibly as well.

Cool ok - I've got the cable that goes from the wideband controller to the emanage

Quote from: thetyrant on December 14, 2022, 10:04I guess it depends how far you want to go but as a minimum you could get away with the controller from LD £59 to power up your wideband sensor and connect its 0-5v output to the Emanage input, i would probably add the AFR display for £29 so you can see the AFR live in front of you while driving.

I would not rely on Autotune but datalog and review/change map from that, some Autotune setups can work ok but it has a narrow window usually and often make crazy changes to map due to lack of brain power, so for example for tuning idle fuel mixture or steady cruising maybe it could be ok but its just not really clever enough for normal variable driving even at much higher price point Ecu's than the emanage.

Enjoy :)

Yeah I'm completely new to tuning... so it's basically going to be a nice learning curve for me. I did like the fail safe thing that the GFB would give by cutting boost if AFR went wrong.. but that is more money..

Quote from: Anon on December 14, 2022, 10:24AEM Gauge is very good, and it has the 0-5v analogue output for the linear 10:1 to 20:0... see page 7 of the manual here for the calibration values https://www.aemelectronics.com/files/instructions/30-4110NS%20Digital%20Wideband%20UEGO%20Gauge%20No%20Sensor.pdf

But its the only one I've messed with so take my rating as inexperienced!

I've never messed with a Greddy E-Manage, but you want to look at the software/pdfs to see how the AFR input works on that ECU. See if you can calibrate an ECU input channel to suit the gauges output scaling. You really want to connect the ECU to the wideband as it will make your closed loop control totally peachy - well as long as the exhaust has no leaks etc.

There is alot of hate to the autotune in the industry... but the Ecu Master EMU's autotune/estimated VE tables from data logging function is pretty good! I've seen many more fudged tables done by "experienced pro tuners". The devil is in the detail, getting the initial config correct, calibrating the sensor curves correctly, no leaks etc - tuning around defects is common but makes for poor outcomes.

Thanks for this, will give it a good go!
Title: Re: Wideband controllers - plugging into Emanage Ultimate - how much to spend
Post by: Carolyn on December 14, 2022, 18:52
At the risk of stating the obvious, you're also in need of an Inlet Air Temperature sensor and a Mahifold Air Pressure sensor.
Title: Re: Wideband controllers - plugging into Emanage Ultimate - how much to spend
Post by: jvanzyl on September 5, 2023, 17:12
Quote from: Carolyn on December 14, 2022, 18:52At the risk of stating the obvious, you're also in need of an Inlet Air Temperature sensor and a Mahifold Air Pressure sensor.
Just following up on this and I'm not sure why I didn't respond - sorry!

If I'm running the emanage then I understand it should run off the MAF?  so no MAP?

In terms of IAT - I have no idea here..

So far what I have is:
AEM Wideband controller with display
4.9 Wideband unit
emanange ultimate with harness
Profec boost controller with pressure sensor etc


my naive understanding is that if I weld in 3 boss's prior to the Cat (somehow & all along the top) I can then put in the stock O2 sensors plus the wideband. That way both ecu's should be happy and I won't get any error lights.
Title: Re: Wideband controllers - plugging into Emanage Ultimate - how much to spend
Post by: Call the midlife! on September 5, 2023, 17:43
The Ecumaster Black has a built in MAP sensor so I'm assuming the ultimate runs MAP as well?
Similarly the Black I had installed ran purely on the wideband in the downpipe, the O2 sensor holes were capped off.
Title: Re: Wideband controllers - plugging into Emanage Ultimate - how much to spend
Post by: jvanzyl on September 5, 2023, 20:07
Quote from: Call the midlife! on September  5, 2023, 17:43The Ecumaster Black has a built in MAP sensor so I'm assuming the ultimate runs MAP as well?
Similarly the Black I had installed ran purely on the wideband in the downpipe, the O2 sensor holes were capped off.

Erm...  just to clarify, I'm talking about the Emanage Ultimate piggy back .. It sounds a bit like you're talking about the ECU master Ecus which are a completely different company and type of ecu? Sorry if I'm misunderstanding?
Title: Re: Wideband controllers - plugging into Emanage Ultimate - how much to spend
Post by: Call the midlife! on September 5, 2023, 21:54
Quote from: jvanzyl on September  5, 2023, 20:07Erm...  just to clarify, I'm talking about the Emanage Ultimate piggy back .. It sounds a bit like you're talking about the ECU master Ecus which are a completely different company and type of ecu? Sorry if I'm misunderstanding?
😂😃😃 no John, it's not you, it's me looking at the words quickly and not actually reading what they say!
As you were...