Hi all,
Been really struggling with oversteer recently, Ive had a few moments in the last few months of compete loss of control of the car while going round roundabouts (In the UK). Is there anything I can do to help reduce this oversteer.
I have recently replaced the rear tyres (They were past the indicators) and its felt 'better' but still had a few close calls on the edge of loss of control while driving at low speeds.
Would replacing suspension bushes etc lead to much of an improvement? Was also looking into getting an aftermarket front anti roll bar.
Anyone with more car setup experience then me here that is willing to give advise it greatly appreciated.
TIA
I'd go in for a full alignment check first before replacing anything.
What were the conditions?
I've had it happen to me when wet & very cold. I put that down to tyres & conditions but if it's happening regularly...
I can see your a new member and we have not had any reports from you of ongoing problems.
"Approaching loss of control at low speed" is not symptomatic of this car. Something is obviously wrong.
Assuming the car is new to you there may be something very basic that is not correct.
Are the tyres, noting you have new rears, OE sizes?
Are all tyres inflated to OE spec?
I would do nothing until you have determined what is wrong and you have come to a good place to help with that diagnosis.
What tyres do you have? What pressures are you running?
What mph are you talking. I had one that was nervous, particularly in the wet. I didn't get the chance to get it checked before it was too late. But this was around 45/50 mph & upwards.
If it's at lower roundabout speeds I'd be wondering about tyres. What's on the front & back? And as Joesson asks...sizes?
I've had the car for almost 2 years. The car has 205/45/17 on front and back. Conditions were wet and cold, it seems to feel more like it's worse on the right hand side then left (that's probably conformation bias as Turing right is more common in the uk)
The car has 35mm lowering springs (previous owner) front tyres are Avon zv7 at 32psi and rear are currently on my spare wheel set so not really sure what they are but it used to be on a set of Yokohama something running at 36psi.
Both of my full loss of control facing the wrong way moments were at about 20/25 mph
General consensus on here is that the ride & handling is poor with 17's. And you have an 'all-square' set-up. If you don't know, the car is meant to have two or three sizes wider on the back...
Standard pressures are 26F 32R. If you drop the front pressures it might help.
But personally if I bought the car with those sizes I'd be getting them off.
I have noticed that im yet to see anyone else with 17s. I put that down to people keeping closer to the oem setup. I wouldve thought that dropping the front pressure would increase the likelyhood of oversteer as there would be more grip at the front.
Im going to be getting the car back of having Avon zv7s front and back soon. Has anybody else had much experience with these tyres?
Some of the younger guys on the f'book groups have 17's. There are some on here have tried, & got rid of them.
If I were you I'd see if you can get a drive in closer to o/e sizes.
Look up tyre tests of zv7. They are not well regarded. They also have a tendency to perish in the tread grooves MUCH earlier than they should.
If you were determined to stick with the 17's, there is a much greater choice of good tyres available.
Be aware also that the stiffer springs present a greater force through the damper. Heavier 17" wheels & tyres won't help that.
Over sized wheels and tyres, same size front and rear, possibly also over pressurised. Perhaps three reasons for over steer. Likely highlighted by the recent change of rear tyres.
Quote from: Joesson on January 12, 2023, 18:09Over sized wheels and tyres, same size front and rear, possibly also over pressurised. Perhaps three reasons for over steer.
Adding to this my limited knwledge of the english language has not enabled to figure out what the brand/type on the rear is.
I suggest the topic opnener first sorts out his data.
In parallel figure out wa¡hat the correct tyre pressure is for his tyres converting from the OEM pressures.
Ah and include the rim data like width and offset. The whole alligment can be mess even without taking the 35 mm lowering into account.
Apart from the obvious and previously discussed tyre issues I'd give your subframe a good looking at, it's not uncommon for them to rot and lead to a loosening of the rear end when the trailing arm's start to move around.
@maffiozo1234 All of the above.
A full breakdown of the tyres would help.
Inc age.
Your pressures in terms of oem are way off.
You should find a little sticker in the bottom of the glove box. That will show what should be on the car.
Any work done to the subframe?
If not correctly torqued up, can present as the car wanting to kill you.
Anyone local you can hook up with to know how a stock 2 behaves.
Edit.
Cross Post with #13
Could be a combination of a few things based on the thread so far. For what it's worth I had similar issues when I first got mine. Tyres and a 4 wheel alignment made the biggest difference.
Still catches me out in the wet if I haven't driven it for a while.
The other factor might be the diff. On an open diff the inner wheel will spin away the power on tight, low speed corners or roundabouts, but it's quite easy to get both rear wheels over-rotating in these cars (in the wet at least).
I would get that car on an alignment machine and then you will know what is happening. I am guessing negative toe as the car likes to go negative in the rear if it hasnt had an alignment for a very long time.
In regards to 17 inch wheels I have them on my rears and they do not have any issues what so ever and are not in anyway a disadvantage in regards to handling and are lighter than the OEM 16" wheels. However it is very easy to mess up with larger size aftermarket wheels if you choose the wrong ones along with limited tire selection.
Because they have a thiner profile they have an advantage of better response at the expense of less driver warning at the limit but that is not what is happening here.
The subframe has recently been repaired, was a little bit of rust which has been properly cut out and rebuilt.
I suspect that the alignment is also a big factor. I got all 4 aligned about 9 months ago but the car has had some work done on it since so will need to book that in pronto.
As far as tyres, i dont have the biggest budget for tyres at £150 each what are the best mid to higher range tyres people recommend from their experience (not too fussed about dry performance as its not getting tracked)
The tyre pressures im now very conflicted as ive had a group of people tell me that that is where they should be and know people are saying theyre too high
Thanks all for the input, will look to sort some of the things highlighted to me out
So many avenues of potential issues.
150 per tyre is a perfectly healthy budget for good tyres on the mr2 normally, but on 17s (especially in the odd sizes for the mr2) the choice is very limited. Falkens general work well.
Avons zv7 generally would get a thumbs up as well for tempered use.
Alignment is a biggie. But you know that.
Then there's the sheer physics of running 17s; less profile, meaning less give in the tyres, transferring more of the load to your suspension. So if that's not up to scratch then that can have negative effects.
They're likely wider than stock. Bigger/wider tyres in wet/cold = less grip.
Ivll also wager you're no longer running stock stagger (rears wider than fronts), which also impacts handling.
I'm in the "tried 17s, hated it, went back to stock" club.
Included a 950mi trip on the 17s and it was absolutely fine on the long haul, but twisties and city driving? Doesn't hold an candle to 15/16 setup
Look up the web for the o/e pressures.....
It's a bit of a guess with 45% 17's though. In theory you've got a stiffer sidewall, so over 30psi in the fronts sounds totally wrong to me.
Look up tests of Hankook k125. They have done well. Good in dry & wet. Available in correct o/e sizes. (edit....maybe not rear, new K135 maybe replacing it. Even better apparently. Not being made in 15" though. Camskill is usually best source. But shipping on tyres is getting pricey.
Your first decision needs to be whether to stay with the 17's though. 16 or 17" rear £100 or less.
Alignment is my bet. I find a millimeter or 2 toe in on the rear works best for stability on these cars. Front, you can go with a millimeter or 2 toe out to aid sharp turn in.
Are you absolutely convinced you want to stay with 17" wheels?
A set of stock wheels can be picked up pretty cheap. Possibly even with some decent rubber still on them, you might get lucky. Have a look around on here or put up a wanted ad on here or on FB pages.
That way you'll have the car back to how it was designed with correct stagger.
& + alignment, + tyre pressures as others have said.
I have no reasoning to stay on 17s. I am yet to change/undo and of the stuff the previous owner has done to the car. Currently looking or a set of OEM wheels( if anybody has any) to bring the car closer to as it was.
Quote from: cptspaulding on January 13, 2023, 09:53Are you absolutely convinced you want to stay with 17" wheels?
A set of stock wheels can be picked up pretty cheap. Possibly even with some decent rubber still on them, you might get lucky. Have a look around on here or put up a wanted ad on here or on FB pages.
That way you'll have the car back to how it was designed with correct stagger.
& + alignment, + tyre pressures as others have said.
I have 2 sets of OEM wheels - PFL and FL ones.
Do you have a set of 15/16?
Quote from: J88TEO on January 13, 2023, 09:57I have 2 sets of OEM wheels - PFL and FL ones.
Quote from: maffiozo1234 on January 13, 2023, 09:55Currently looking or a set of OEM wheels( if anybody has any) to bring the car closer to as it was.
I have a set of each. Distance probably the issue. But options open.
Quote from: Ardent on January 13, 2023, 16:40I have a set of each. Distance probably the issue. But options open.
Distance isnt a problem, only a few hours
Hmm, where to start?
Work has been done in the subframe, so first port of call has to be a proper 4 wheel alignment.
A mix of tyres. I've had a Ford fiesta turned into a dangerously unstable oversteer monster by having mismatch front to rear. It was a complete handful On a 30mph roundabout. On a mid engine car it can only be worse.
Square setup. The original fitted sizes had wider rear than front. Same size as round will change the balance.
Tyre pressures. 17s will most likely have a different pressure requirement than the standard size. You'll get into the right area by referring to a load index vs axle weight chart.
Lowering, alters camber and camber/ load buildup.
Good luck, you're going to need it ;D
Quote from: ChrisGB on January 13, 2023, 18:24Hmm, where to start?
.....
Good luck, you're going to need it ;D
A set of OEM wheels from the forum here. Probably has matched OEM size rubber on it already. If not then any premium brand summer or all weathers in OEM size will do.
Set pressure to spec.
Alligment.
Done ;)
If you go back to oe sized FL wheels just be aware that the tyre options are limited. There are only about 4 or 5 different tyres that are available in both 15 and 16 inches. I have the Avon ZV7's and they are pretty decent but as already mentioned they do crack in the grooves between the tread prematurely.