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MR2 Roadster Owners Club

The Workshop => Performance Related => Topic started by: spynish on June 22, 2005, 13:48

Title: GUESS WHO... (C2 Power Turbo kit)
Post by: spynish on June 22, 2005, 13:48
Hi chaps!

Guess who is going to be the first C2 Power Mr2 turbo in the world... (even in the Universe  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  )

  s8) 8) s8)    s8) 8) s8)    s8) 8) s8)    s8) 8) s8)    s8) 8) s8)    s8) 8) s8)    s8) 8) s8)    s8) 8) s8)    s8) 8) s8)    s8) 8) s8)    s8) 8) s8)    s8) 8) s8)    s8) 8) s8)    s8) 8) s8)    s8) 8) s8)    s8) 8) s8)    s8) 8) s8)    s8) 8) s8)    s8) 8) s8)    s8) 8) s8)  

I'll keep you informed...

[MOD] Title edited for clarity [/MOD]
Title:
Post by: Slacey on June 22, 2005, 14:09
Congrats! I couldn't believe that no-one was taking them up on their offer when they asked for a car a while ago now  s:? :? s:?
Title:
Post by: Darth Paul on June 22, 2005, 14:28
Wow. Cool.  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  












































(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y91/darthpaul27/MRC2.jpg)

  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:    s:roll: :roll: s:roll:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Title:
Post by: aaronjb on June 22, 2005, 15:20
Quote from: "Darth Paul"(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y91/darthpaul27/MRC2.jpg)

 s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  Bored this afternoon, Paul?  s:D :D s:D
Title: Re: GUESS WHO...
Post by: Anonymous on June 23, 2005, 20:37
QuoteGuess who is going to be the first C2 Power Mr2 turbo in the world... (even in the Universe  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  )

I don't know...is it me!!!?!?? How exciting. When will it be fitted and where do I drive to?   s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Title: Re: GUESS WHO...
Post by: Anonymous on June 24, 2005, 09:27
Quote from: "Markyboy"
QuoteGuess who is going to be the first C2 Power Mr2 turbo in the world... (even in the Universe  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  )

I don't know...is it me!!!?!?? How exciting. When will it be fitted and where do I drive to?   s:shock: :shock: s:shock:

Hungary!  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Title:
Post by: spynish on June 27, 2005, 20:10
Yes, mate...

Budapest is the place where C2 power company is.  s:D :D s:D  

Leaving Spain on friday. Just 2600 km/1615 miles travel...  s:roll: :roll: s:roll:  
Will need 3 days to arrive.

My car will be ready in two weeks time (I know, too many time without my 2...). It will have an air/air intercooler. Will change clutch (RPS Max) and EGT and Boost gauges will be installed also.  s8) 8) s8)  

To be continued...
Title:
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2005, 21:05
good luck.

any info for now, like turbo they'll use,management, amount of power your after?
Title:
Post by: spynish on June 27, 2005, 22:10
Hi,

the idea is to make a kit quite similar to the one used in the Celica. Have a look:

http://www.c2power.com/products/celica_gt_stage1_turbo_kit

  s8) 8) s8)
Title:
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2005, 08:48
Congrats, hope everything running fine!  Bing seems to be a good guy!
Title:
Post by: spit on June 30, 2005, 17:19
Good luck with it Spyni. I enquired but decided not to take the trip. Wish I had now - I'm currently clocking up miles in France, Belgium & Holland - could probably be in Hungary by now!

It'll have to be a Hass instead.

ps Greetings from Liège.
Title:
Post by: spynish on June 30, 2005, 22:20
Thanx for the greetings to everyone!  s8) 8) s8)  

Leaving in a few hours  s:D :D s:D
Title:
Post by: spynish on July 6, 2005, 02:50
Hi again!

Back from Budapest today. My car is in C2Power production company now and already stripped  s8) 8) s8)  ...

I met Gaspar Kovacs, the owner of the company. All superb. I am very greatful for his hospitality and great treatment. My car is in good hands. Thank you for everything.

The travel was very nice also. My 2 did well, it was even more confortable than I previously expected for so a long travel.

Tomorrow I'll post some pics of Budapest and my car.
Title:
Post by: spynish on July 6, 2005, 02:52
By the way,

My TRD header is still for sale. Open to reasonable offers. Please look at the pics I recently added in spyderchat:

http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=4295907#4295907
Title:
Post by: spit on July 6, 2005, 09:15
Spyni, I'm so jealous.

Hope it all goes well, and can't wait to find out about the finished product.

I bet you're looking forward to the return drive from Budapest!   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  Keep us informed.
Title:
Post by: spynish on July 6, 2005, 12:32
Yes spit,

These 2 weeks are going to be very, very long   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

Let me tell you a bit more of the travel:

First day we made approx. 1000 Km. and we arrive to Aix en Provence, in France. Slept there and next day at 8:00 we were on the car again. We cross all the South of France (very nice views), all Italy (we had lunch there) and we arrive to Wien a 21:00. We had dinner and went to sleep (more than 1300 Km today, not bad).
Next morning we went to the centre of Wien to have a look. Here there are some photos:

(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QwCfAvESGWZ2qCOcJkQbq2MTIhtqePCXLLdVq7CudCtuY70zniJzIQ*kpYt19xKbKp8lrR16uSGeEnmbls40bej0xiqiUItuw8l6B1Fqu9I/IMG_0231.jpg)

(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QwDrAvUSAWd2qCOcJkQbqw1y35htVhbWqtEXCzak!EC88syD7o02S2jJiqxS5k8rzwcK!yF*jm0ZCy0Ix0zOPzVThIlJs85iGzc9REH8bhc/IMG_0235.jpg)

At 16:00 we leave to Budapest and spend here just this day and Monday, on Tuesday we took the plane back home. We like a lot the city, although we weren't to much time.
 
Buda:

(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QwCbAvQSyGZ2qCOcJkQbq!D46A2hWREdhiIvr0DnT5ijQVN9IG0C984yrz6yNkA7B1RTTrP*hzqkB96xh5iAXUK*Aj5PbG2lr4jbjk91yZk/IMG_0243.jpg)

Pest:

(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QwAAAPUSAmd2qCOcJkQbq8bpuldnSHMPskcUhbOYzgTdVc958ZT1b959tNYJdqo3UUh3IAYbrfPrVclc2YiXbwhbYAlhVUPLSgsgeSueMu4/IMG_0244.jpg)


And last but not least, here is my car in C2Power place:

(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QwD7AvcSdmd2qCOcJkQbq53aHpzCzFRZJJT97xIwzUqsekPydo4rGfBr8pXS1pMRshDrWg2CZuLVrTgb1xjitAeuxo9XzwctM*CWsksm0x4/IMG_0246.jpg)

Excited now!!!  s:D :D s:D
Title:
Post by: spynish on July 7, 2005, 17:03
Well mates,
Here it is the promised update:

(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QwCfAs8Sq11l3ngMUtdP27mHuFVOpF7BHJdTBtjHaOs5wUx5sV46hCFKO6fi5cgT7Z8pa9LwjVtWv!U6dM1KPde34tTV6n7EaXVBioFObFY/DSC03757.jpg)

(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QwAAAMsSxFxl3ngMUtdP21nIrqopdIufKCAt6DJE3pGOaEWxbF0xnSSHD7uZ4CdHrCj7gShFVUINv5*edKOyT1bqzgNnM2qa9PI7GK1xFAA/DSC03762.jpg)

(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QwCfAskSUFxl3ngMUtdP2yhNhcDFMuEJp9VAHjK6RsJkAg95LK1YvJuSj9843MW!sWdSAg0!dXsNkU89V4*FsU1n8BqtqJDwdzzRIpQTgbU/DSC03760.jpg)

(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QwCfAtESH15l3ngMUtdP2z9YhQxqq78jh!wWKHY6ITlBnXCtshw0WgY5NUUxJM3zudtrr9wVpq9SkaZBLL3HfnciTQWFX8W3e!aBYZXo19Q/DSC03759.jpg)

(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QwCfAsoSilxl3ngMUtdP21IVtmzU2YPonknICiBmhoy1LeEpCyWI62anedgmA82*W5g94*j14U!YUUSn9Kd*8IvVpPJJxI!5q1hLlO89yV4/DSC03761.jpg)

(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QwCfAswS*lxl3ngMUtdP21Bt4ySddvle4VqmSY1X4YEgIViERmBm3!9FFKwnMokSmHZyrR5mJRm8xZkwcrVcwWMTc!6WDRjp*QWzC6!TxF4/DSC03763.jpg)

(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QwCRAtAS5V1l3ngMUtdP22slQ6gwf*M0N4L5Kx1459XToGRs9eddLxn7qyZlGnLuifZKxUorJYSnUfCbTLTjgBqtW9miBkvy2YsMFZxIUtw/DSC03758.jpg)

  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

I hope you love it as much as I do  s:D :D s:D  !

You can see my new 2 tips exhaust, my new cat, ant the Garrett GT28R Dual BB Turbo.

To come: Intercooler located on the top (I'll show you how), Cold air intake (behind the tail light) and Greddy emanage and gauges...
  s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:
Title:
Post by: spynish on July 7, 2005, 17:08
There are going to be 2 Stage 1 kits:

Starter: The affordable one: It will look similar than mine now, without intercooler, exhaust, cold air intake...
Expected price: 2*** Euros

Advanced: Upgraded with intercooler, heatshields, Cold air intake...
Expected price: 3*** Euros

Gaspar kovacs will inform you with all details.


Stage 2:

Same than St1 advanced plus internals see  w www.c2power.com (http://www.c2power.com) w
Title:
Post by: Anonymous on July 7, 2005, 17:11
Looks promising. My only doubt is how effective the CAI is going to be, situated directly behind the tail light...   s:? :? s:?  

Still, those guys have a hell of a lot more experience with turbos than I do, so I'll be quiet for now.   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Title:
Post by: Slacey on July 7, 2005, 18:27
Looks good  s:D :D s:D
Title:
Post by: LeeUK on July 7, 2005, 18:29
Damn I need a turbo   s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
Title:
Post by: Tem on July 7, 2005, 19:18
Quote from: "ekona"Looks promising. My only doubt is how effective the CAI is going to be, situated directly behind the tail light...   s:? :? s:?

Top Secret turbokit has the intake in there as well. Then again, their democar has air inlets in the bumper at that area.
Title:
Post by: spynish on July 7, 2005, 19:29
This go fast chaps:  s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:  

Intercooler with isolation solution:



(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QwCbAs4Sc11l3ngMUtdP2wp6wtfYelCBQpMFxD3kouM3CLMMU0RC70k1bXHy6TgrPz9BDcKVOUe1SgpHfT2JktCtohfCJC!FWZbG2CGay8c/DSC03774.jpg)

(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QwDrAs8SrV1l3ngMUtdP22n8UCnyUbsGjWWQDk3tg5ciYRhirMUB2crafwLVYLFUle3K09**WmAPTOp4CHePFSikcJWLe!4dikCV7Y5ZOR4/DSC03775.jpg)

(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QwBpANESIV5l3ngMUtdP263gfTdJwF89V5gmB08cslRFw9VgbfvKig3tvx*E4WgLG8bosrnp3gNUnZ4Hlb*EBnvn5VY4AX6nL!Jvtr6pJ1I/DSC03777.jpg)

(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QwD7AtISW15l3ngMUtdP26v9B5SnrAA8i9bbt4szGe26gfpHbuEByvNGO!Ds2E4pVqZA40Dfd2l6ddZE8XczxUnqBvy4qNbcTRQgEEudIVw/DSC03778.jpg)

(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QwAWA9MSlV5l3ngMUtdP23Ou2B**C*PS!l7TavLbBey1aMI1zsOl3JPCQIN6Vmc7KXheDR2fL6nN3nDAQPtlhxYGnGgZXUVNEVEsqHsSmdU/DSC03779.jpg)


This is the way how the air filter will go in the st1 starter kit (in the advanced kit it goes rear the tail light):


(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QwCjAs0SOF1l3ngMUtdP2618ZzOlPxs0XOvHEMpLrvN7Yt3dnMS5hDrwtiuqCUOGfjrbVgr4GPRdzvoZDGu6wwLbU*2SrKOwx8mPvdYDRgo/DSC03764.jpg)

(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QwCbAtISWl5l3ngMUtdP21pxqE1s!E7cLWZbTCJMxJlr4OIHzDb23po5zwFxT*veUimVveEsQbyfC6sLfrjdtB2oxZxHx!9Dj0ln*JtcUzg/DSC03769.jpg)

The cat with its heatshield:

(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QwCbAssSxVxl3ngMUtdP21uDi0eVikGJa9*JHzMXO1Y!MUIOULpZuBuPMJzXIHqBlpZzFdznCaNO2scSgJu4dGlwi9*0xcf0nQ8HXyKc!LE/DSC03771.jpg)

(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QwDrAswS*1xl3ngMUtdP23A!5KOzhi999p3YAY92E3E7V3K6pJwwFczugvUHaeRhKBHMTqFU15*t8hnE1Ozx0uHfeihM*Xh2wfek8Re6kqw/DSC03772.jpg)

Other views:

(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QwAAAM8SrF1l3ngMUtdP2!eTMfxcliHB8ipp!ZbjbqZ!FsoxJ0oSiL8sPONzLMDdQCgG3qRsOS7COwtLEs2QkGcMRD9IoBV1iWUM0dFo2vA/DSC03766.jpg)

(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QwAAANAS5l1l3ngMUtdP2w3*LPyS1GaXYrVcaQL2PWqmTYAqS46cJzDE5uW0LZTAWCd5ErlHAAMSK6ADjRyOLWrTRu2QDPb!az9VEj!dDVk/DSC03767.jpg)

(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QwCbAssSxlxl3ngMUtdP2zniUfEa7wxaPsXB0px0M5UaK5rcMthXvKum5NTxd1u9JC!kAJBarBVP1PyPYV4MNSWnQRiktTTQLjdIWRPGV0Y/DSC03780.jpg)

Even more excited (anyone has a defibrillator in case of heart attack???  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  )
Title:
Post by: Tem on July 7, 2005, 19:39
Is that an air to air IC?  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  

Why would they want to block the airflow to it? Surely the air through the engine bay isn't as cool as it could be, but I'm sure it's better than no airflow at all  s:? :? s:?
Title:
Post by: spynish on July 7, 2005, 19:57
Yes, it's an air to air intercooler. It´s not being blocked:
The air will come from the top hood openings (it will probably have also a air entrance made of fiber to get even more air). The metal piece that is behind this hood openings wil be taken out, also.
Title:
Post by: spynish on July 7, 2005, 20:00
The piece where the lamp is will be put appart:

(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QwD7AvcSdmd2qCOcJkQbq53aHpzCzFRZJJT97xIwzUqsekPydo4rGfBr8pXS1pMRshDrWg2CZuLVrTgb1xjitAeuxo9XzwctM*CWsksm0x4/IMG_0246.jpg)
Title:
Post by: aaronjb on July 7, 2005, 20:04
Quote from: "spynish"The air will come from the top hood openings (it will probably have also a air entrance made of fiber to get even more air). The metal piece that is behind this hood openings wil be taken out, also.

I'm sure someone else will confirm this - but AFAIK the top of the hood is in a low pressure zone - airflow is (usually) upward from the underside of the car and out of those vents, not in..
Title:
Post by: Tem on July 7, 2005, 21:18
Quote from: "aaronjb"
Quote from: "spynish"The air will come from the top hood openings (it will probably have also a air entrance made of fiber to get even more air). The metal piece that is behind this hood openings wil be taken out, also.

I'm sure someone else will confirm this - but AFAIK the top of the hood is in a low pressure zone - airflow is (usually) upward from the underside of the car and out of those vents, not in..

That's correct...
Title:
Post by: spit on July 7, 2005, 21:42
I see you're on the C2 website already!
Coming along nicely Spyni (me still being visited by the jealousy monster).
If the CAI and I/C positions are suitable, then its a very neat set-up. Where are the O2 sensors being tapped in?
Title:
Post by: aaronjb on July 7, 2005, 23:01
Quote from: "Tem"That's correct...

Which means - assuming that IC is venting through the top vents and the rear of the car, that it'll have two low pressure zones and zero airflow.. Not gonna be good  s:? :? s:?
Title:
Post by: spynish on July 7, 2005, 23:49
Well, I'm not and expert an what you're saying really interests me.

Don't you think that with the bottom panel, made for isolating, air won't go from the bottom of the car to the hood?

I thought the air would just be stopped with this panel...
Title:
Post by: spynish on July 8, 2005, 00:38
Hi,

You're right. Have been talking to Gaspar. We'll modify that.   s8) 8) s8)  
Thanks
Title:
Post by: xdesign on July 8, 2005, 07:02
Maybe using a different air filter with a tube...
Title:
Post by: Anonymous on July 8, 2005, 08:09
mate of mine had his celica turbo's by C2 and Gas apparently is a great bloke.  he had teething problems due tp the car being right hand drive and the down pipe hitting the steering column etc.  But Gas flew over from Hungary and worked on the car for the weekend to sort it out for him!

Overall he was well impressed wirg Gas and C2
Title:
Post by: aaronjb on July 8, 2005, 11:34
Quote from: "spynish"You're right. Have been talking to Gaspar. We'll modify that.   s8) 8) s8)  

Excellent  s:) :) s:)  Glad you didn't think I was just picking holes  s;) ;) s;)  And good to see a company who takes notice of received wisdom, as it were  s:) :) s:)
Title:
Post by: Tem on July 8, 2005, 12:49
Quote from: "aaronjb"
Quote from: "spynish"You're right. Have been talking to Gaspar. We'll modify that.   s8) 8) s8)  

Excellent  s:) :) s:)  Glad you didn't think I was just picking holes  s;) ;) s;)  And good to see a company who takes notice of received wisdom, as it were  s:) :) s:)

What he said!

Please post pics of the modified install too  s8) 8) s8)
Title:
Post by: spynish on July 11, 2005, 17:44
Hi guys,

Long weekend without any news, I know...  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  
Here you have the update:

The intercooler panels have been redisigned to get as much air as possible (from the bottom and from the left air intake):

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/DSC03781.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/DSC03782.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/DSC03783.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/DSC03784.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/DSC03785.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/DSC03787.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/DSC03788.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/DSC03789.jpg)



The O2 sensors and MAF are already placed:

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/DSC03786.jpg)



And last but no least, the Apexi air intake:

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/DSC03792.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/DSC03793.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/DSC03794.jpg)


  s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:
Title:
Post by: Slacey on July 11, 2005, 17:50
That looks better!  s:) :) s:)
Title:
Post by: Anonymous on July 11, 2005, 18:09
Thanks for teh compliments. Gas has been working hard on the car and we expect to complete the kit soon. We will soon fill you guys in after we inventorised all parts needed for each kit.

If anyone has suggestions, please let us know. All help is welcome. We're working with our own experience and had some pointers from Matt from MWR(360whp turbocharged MR2 spyder).
Title:
Post by: spit on July 11, 2005, 19:02
Tidy install, coming together nicely. Neat trick with the left air intake.

I'm a self-confessed ignoramous about intercoolers, so forgive the dumb question   s:oops: :oops: s:oops:  :  I can understand the need for an air pressure gradient across the IC, but how much impact does the temperature of incoming air have on the efficiency of these things?

I ask this because of the amount of radiant heat that the silencer (and therefore the lower "lip" of the IC chamber) will be giving off down at the bottom end. Any benefit in giving the lower "lip" a heat reflective coating, or is that just daft?
Title:
Post by: spynish on July 11, 2005, 19:30
Hi Spit,   s:D :D s:D  

You're right, incoming air temperature effects on performance, and that's why that panel is put there, to isolate exhaust heating. The question is how warm will air become passing through that panel... Not much, I imagine, and the faster you go the faster air will pass through and don't think it will be heated a lot.
Coating will possibly help, but I'm not sure how much...

But, I'm just imagining, so please chaps, post all your knowledge  s8) 8) s8)
Title:
Post by: Anonymous on July 11, 2005, 19:38
Well i'm impressed with how the kit is looking. Good to see the MAF after the turbo, is there a BOV going on?

I love the exhaust design, hope it sounds as good as it looks.

What diameter pipes are used 2.5" or 3"?

As said a thermal coat on that heat shield will stop it becoming a radiator of heat causing the IC to heat soak from it.

Looking forward to seeing the power figures.  s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
Title:
Post by: Anonymous on July 11, 2005, 20:44
Yes, there should be a blow off valve but I guess it's not on it yet. It will placed between the compressor outlet and the MAF sensor if you would ask me(also the current position for our BOV's on the Celica turbo kit).

I think these are 70mm piping, so it's like 2.75".
Title:
Post by: Tem on July 11, 2005, 21:36
That looks very nice, good work!  s8) 8) s8)  Makes me wanna do something similar for my Top Secret kit...


BTW, do you know if anyone has fitted your turbokit for 2ZZ Celica to 2ZZ Corolla? Friend of mine wants to give it a try...
Title:
Post by: spynish on July 11, 2005, 23:50
Hi,

This is the BOV that is going to be fitted:

(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QgCRFuUT1JxqrymZjUgThNNoKGHIjpoxqG70iK0ZJSY3sRxZNcLymqYqq8gTq4RftiszWcukjrC47VZTzBmXDapjfARFvY61BH6zVsiSMnA/sardbov.jpg)

It´s supposed to be a loud enough...  s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:  

Pshhhhhhhh  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Title:
Post by: spynish on July 12, 2005, 00:34
Didn't realise it's the Star Wars BOV...     s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

(http://www.fer.nu/r2d2/images/R2D2.jpg)
Title:
Post by: Anonymous on July 12, 2005, 07:04
We've developed a Vibe/Matrix 1ZZFE kit, which supposively has the same frame as the Corolla.
We haven't got someone to test fit it on a 2ZZGE corolla yet though.
Title:
Post by: spynish on July 12, 2005, 17:21
Hi again!

Near to be finished...  s:D :D s:D  
Have a look on the intercooler setup:

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/DSC03802.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/DSC03803.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/DSC03805.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/DSC03806.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/DSC03807.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/DSC03808.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/DSC03809.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/DSC03810.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/DSC03813.jpg)


Other pics:


(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/DSC03796.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/DSC03798.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/DSC03800.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/DSC03799.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/DSC03801.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/DSC03804.jpg)



Do you like it???
I love the whole kit, the only thing I need to see in person is the dual tips size, I'm not sure about them... Though bigger ones may soud too loud...  s:roll: :roll: s:roll:  

Now going for clutch and gauges!!!  s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:
Title:
Post by: spit on July 12, 2005, 17:51
Great to see the step-by-step progress pics. Personally, I like the silencer/tip configuration. You're still going to get some beautiful noise behind you.
Congratulations to Gas and the guys, and good luck with the clutch and gauge install.
I can't wait for Dyno and video to be posted!
Title:
Post by: Slacey on July 12, 2005, 17:55
It looks superb, hope it works well!

Keep an eye on the IC temps though - my Hass is mounted down low and has a skirt to push the air through it, but in these hot temps and even on the motorway with good airflow it is getting very hot. Time for me to make a better scoop methinks.
Title:
Post by: Anonymous on July 12, 2005, 18:12
 s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  Does this Gas bloke not sleep   s:?: :?: s:?:  Amazing amount of work in such a short time. Really looks good.
Title:
Post by: spynish on July 12, 2005, 18:28
 s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

As Gaspar says, he works fast...
Still many things to do before I come back to pick up the car...
7 looong days since now!  s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
Title:
Post by: Anonymous on July 13, 2005, 09:35
Nice work, glad for you Spynish!  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Title:
Post by: spynish on July 13, 2005, 19:12
Hi again,

Seems that work is arriving to its end...  s8) 8) s8)  

Cluth has been done today, tomorrow Gaspar wil be the lucky boy that will drive it first... As soon as I have a dyno or any movie I'll post them.

O2 sensors are going to be relocated after turbo instead of where they are now but just on will be installed, not both. It seems measures are more accurate and you avoid danger of too high temps, that can damage the sensors. I now Hass kit has both in the manifold and that's how we had planned to do it first but, following Matt advice (MWR), we are going to do it in the other way.


Here you have the rps max clutch pic:


(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/DSC03845.jpg)
Title:
Post by: Anonymous on July 13, 2005, 21:34
Great!

We will have prices up next week. Stay tuned!!!
Title:
Post by: Anonymous on July 14, 2005, 00:33
Better for the O2 sensors to be after the turbo is not more accurate, having a seperate sensor for both banks of cylinders is more accurate and safer as if your lean on two cylinders you'll never know. BUT aslong as the injectors are new or atleast been cleaned and flow tested you'll be fine. The PE kit is after the turbo, with two O2 sensor holes in the worst positions ever, that's why all the PE people have only got the first sensor feeding both banks.

The info i went through when i was buying my wideband all says the same thing as you say about it generally being more accurate, the heat that close to the turbo will either destroy the sensor or make it give inaccurate data, so good choice to move it.

I really like the way C2 don't just think they know it all (though they probably do) and listen to the people that do know the '2 and adapt their kit accordingly. I'd bet good money on this being the kit most people will lean towards if their considering turbo in the future.

Spynish, your gonna be so happy when it's finished.  s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
Title:
Post by: spynish on July 14, 2005, 01:52
Hi mr-s_turbo,

Thanks for sharing your knowledge   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

I really don't know much about but I think that going lean in 2 cilinders may be uncommon... If not, why the 1ZZFE Celica has just one O2 sensor?

Another question:

Do you think there is any problem with MAF location and piping size?


(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/DSC03808.jpg)

Thanks!  s:D :D s:D
Title:
Post by: Anonymous on July 14, 2005, 09:28
Yes going lean on 2 banks is uncommon, i've only got 1sensor after the turbo and it has been like this for over 2years with no problems at all, so the idea is fine just periodically put some injector cleaner through the system so you know their all squirting well.

The tube steps up to a bigger size just before the MAF which could cause turbulence of air over it giving erratic readings, but i doubt it very much, and the smaller pipe does have a good taper on it, so the flow of air between the 2 diameters will be smooth. I'm sure Gas did this for a reason and it's worked on other cars with no problem. You got doubts about it for any reason?
Title:
Post by: spynish on July 14, 2005, 10:32
Hi again,

I'm interested in the injectors cleaner you're talking about, which brand do you use, is a common product that can be found everywhere?

My doubts ar e because Tikked(SC) thinks that:  "The short distance between where the smaller diameter pipe changes to the larger diameter, and the MAF located so close to this change could cause problems with air flow over the MAF"

He's just speculating, but when I read something that can be wrong I just feel a bit nervous...  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

Just want everything right!  s:D :D s:D
Title:
Post by: spynish on July 14, 2005, 18:19
 s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:  

First video!!! It's made indoors so it sounds a bit loud and bassy but I like it, here it is:

http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/MR2sound-001-01.mpg

At the end, both O2 sensors will be kept, but located after turbo.
Refering to MAF, a wider piping has been installed to avoid any possible turbulence  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  
Also BOV has been installed.

And look how shiny and pretty manifold looks!

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/DSC03854.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/DSC03855.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/DSC03856.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/DSC03863.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/DSC03865.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/DSC03866.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/DSC03867.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/DSC03872.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/DSC03874.jpg)



And now, The Boss:

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/DSC03875.jpg)

  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Title:
Post by: Slacey on July 14, 2005, 18:22
That's a really nice setup, I bet the wait to pick it up is killing you!
Title:
Post by: spynish on July 14, 2005, 18:27
Yeah Slacey!

How well you now it!  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  
2 looong weeks, I'm on hollyday but since I left the car in Buda I have been dreaming with day 20th arrival!

To be contiued... (dyno soon)   s:D :D s:D
Title:
Post by: kanujunkie on July 14, 2005, 18:56
that guy can really do some nice work, interesting idea's, especially dropping the exhaust box down so that the intercooler could fit in the space created, should be interesting seeing the dyno results
Title:
Post by: spit on July 14, 2005, 19:27
I agree - there's still decent ground clearance with the box lowered and it allows the rest of the install to look very tidy.

Sweet exhaust note too. Do you want me to drive it home for you Spyni??!

Hope the Dyno is everything you expect it to be.
Title:
Post by: spynish on July 14, 2005, 20:30
Don't worry spit, though it's going to be a pity, I'll try to drive my car home...  s:cry: :cry: s:cry:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Title:
Post by: Anonymous on July 14, 2005, 21:32
you learn so much on his site, looks fantastic, sounds fantastic and will probably run amazingly well.

It takes a dedicated operator to pay for the privaledge of something like this not to mention associated pressures of installing it (technical issues).

Probably a labor of love once it's finished though
Title:
Post by: spynish on July 16, 2005, 18:46
Hi!  s:mrgreen: :mrgreen: s:mrgreen:  

Enjoy some movies:

http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/MR21-001-01.mpg

http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/MR22-001-01.mpg

http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/MR23-001-01.mpg

  s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:
Title:
Post by: spit on July 17, 2005, 00:39
 s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:    s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:  Nice one Spyni. I repeat my offer to drive it home for you   s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:    s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:
Title:
Post by: spit on July 17, 2005, 00:44
(By the way - link for the second vid in the R2D2 trilogy should be http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/MR22-001-01.mpg)
Title:
Post by: spynish on July 17, 2005, 01:42
Repaired!

Thanx spit  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Title:
Post by: spynish on July 17, 2005, 01:51
Hi again,

Everythings is progressing fine less the intercooler, that it's not efficient enough. We're planning to relocate it and have thought to put it in the bottom.
Can anyone give any idea of the better place to locate, why and how?

Thanx
Title:
Post by: Anonymous on July 17, 2005, 02:01
At the bottom of the bay (a la Hass) seems like the obvious place due to the flow of the air from the bottom upwards: A nicely shaped scoop should help matters too.
Title:
Post by: Slacey on July 17, 2005, 10:24
A scoop is definately needed. While we have been getting these warm tempos I have been keeping an eye on the IC temperature (nothing scientific, just touching the core by hand) and it has been getting very warm, hot even after a long drive. Inbetween trying to fix my stuttering problem I am going to be fashioning a scoop from sheet steel to experiment with finding a design that works well, but doesn't scrape over speed bumps etc.!
Title:
Post by: spynish on July 18, 2005, 14:28
Ok guys,

New conf. is ready. Please watch pics and leave your opinions:

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/b/DSC03877.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/b/DSC03878.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/b/DSC03879.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/b/DSC03880.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/b/DSC03881.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/b/DSC03882.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/b/DSC03882.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/b/DSC03883.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/b/DSC03884.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/b/DSC03885.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/b/DSC03886.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/b/DSC03887.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/b/DSC03888.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/b/DSC03889.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/b/DSC03890.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/b/DSC03891.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/b/DSC03892.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/b/DSC03893.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/b/DSC03894.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/b/DSC03895.jpg)


I'm thinking a scoop to direct air to IC would be nice...
Title:
Post by: Slacey on July 18, 2005, 14:42
Replied on SC...  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Title:
Post by: kanujunkie on July 18, 2005, 14:43
good God, Gaspars a fast worker!  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  

that looks a bit better but does still need a scoop for the IC or is that the plan already?, nice work outside of that
Title:
Post by: spit on July 18, 2005, 15:05
These C2 guys are both thorough and dedicated - just read your other post on the Turbo thread Spyni - they seem like good guys to do business with. Its a shame the other configuration wasn't getting enough air to the IC, as it looked very tidy and space-efficent.

Thinking out loud for a moment.......I know nothing about how well the air flows under the car, but I'm applying my very rusty physics about air speed vs pressure (bernoulli/venturi and all that)........

I would imagine that air moving underneath (relative to the car's forward motion) will create -ve pressure compared to the slower air in the engine bay and therefore you'll have a vacuum in the void behind engine & transmission? This, in turn, could then lead to the reverse of what you want by drawing air across the IC from between the engine and relocated back-box?

A scoop would steal some of the air flowing under the car and force it upwards, negating any -ve pressure effect. Not sure how much of a scoop you'll get before it decapitates rabbits and diverts other road debris though  s:!: :!: s:!:

So perhaps you do need a scoop, unless you're going to be parked at traffic lights all the time when the low IC is probably the best place to be!
Title:
Post by: kanujunkie on July 18, 2005, 15:29
Quote from: "spit"I would imagine that air moving underneath (relative to the car's forward motion) will create -ve pressure compared to the slower air in the engine bay and therefore you'll have a vacuum in the void behind engine & transmission? This, in turn, could then lead to the reverse of what you want by drawing air across the IC from between the engine and relocated back-box?

its not possible to tell this without a wind tunnel too many variables, vents in the top and back of the engine bay will change the pressure zones and the way that they vent, yes i agree that its probably a negative effect in the engine bay but i cant see how you can know the direction of air movement. This is why IMHO it would be better to go for RAM air flow to cool the IC, but the scoop would need to be made of thin metal so that if it does hit something then it wont destroy half the engine bay but bend out of the way
Title:
Post by: Slacey on July 18, 2005, 15:31
I mentioned it on SC but at the weekend I fashioned a experimental scoop from sheet steel (not into my metals but I think it is maybe 1~2mm thick) for the Hass IC. I'll try and get it fitted this week and see how effective (if at all) it is and report back, but it's definately needed IMO.
Title:
Post by: kanujunkie on July 18, 2005, 16:17
Quote from: "Slacey"I mentioned it on SC but at the weekend I fashioned a experimental scoop from sheet steel (not into my metals but I think it is maybe 1~2mm thick) for the Hass IC. I'll try and get it fitted this week and see how effective (if at all) it is and report back, but it's definately needed IMO.

if its on the bottom then the metal will need to be thick enough to hold its shape under load but soft enough to bend if it gets hit, Ally would be better as steel is a quite hard material and could damage something if it becomes detached after an impact, heaven forbid!
Title:
Post by: spynish on July 18, 2005, 16:41
Yes,
The scoop is going to be installed. Something like this (you can laugh at my photochop):

(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SACbAt4Ucue*V2y0CqcUY83b3H41oADXdoLReE1KH7YPB1zZ2hi*8yon2LyrirmQoaPXCAw07rdN8MrTTuZuwQb743BKUX5y0Tv5!Jqrlw1VAAAAynIPAg/DSC03886retoc.jpg)

It will be alloy.
Title:
Post by: Anonymous on July 18, 2005, 16:54
Quote from: "spynish"Yes,
The scoop is going to be installed. Something like this (you can laugh at my photchop):

OK....  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  


Placement does look alot better though.
Title:
Post by: kanujunkie on July 18, 2005, 17:31
you and me need to do a photoshop course sometime, that looks like a good position though, is it going to be fully enclosed in? give it the full ram air treatment so to speak?
Title:
Post by: kanujunkie on July 18, 2005, 17:34
are you going to mesh the front of the intake to protect the IC from stones and garbage? could be worth it
Title:
Post by: Anonymous on July 18, 2005, 19:36
just a quick question, will this kit be offered in a stage 1 version without the intercooler option? i figure this would make the kit a couple hundred bucks cheaper but if its cheap enough to compete with other turbo systems with the intercooler then well, you might have alot of customers calling you.
Title:
Post by: LeeUK on July 18, 2005, 20:32
Blimey C2 work fast!  He must employ santas elfs during their off season!  Could be a better choice than Hass, can't wait for the numbers.
Title:
Post by: spynish on July 19, 2005, 00:52
Hi Stu,

hadn't think about mesh but it's a good idea!  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  
I'll tell Gaspar, don't think there is any problem.
About fully enclosement, I think it would be better to force all air to pass through IC, what do you think?

Thanx!
Title:
Post by: spynish on July 19, 2005, 11:53
Hi again,
this is the way I thought it' colud be done.
-White lines: panels (fully enclosed)
- Pink line: fixing place
- Red line: Diplacement line in case of hiting something
- Yellow line: mesh to prevent damaging the IC
- Green line: shouldn't be much lower than my rear bumper lip


(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QQCbAjQT3XQG6wXGNfNfuamhDpVYOE4zDHPZTdqIQIssXSa7M0eRgP!crHJP2maSB9ZP!NBhi!ErldRQpxaaYBKijk*te!u*b5IcP*HzgBU/scoop2.jpg)

P.S: My photochop is just ludicrous!  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Title:
Post by: Anonymous on July 19, 2005, 12:29
Looks good.....well the idea, not your photoshop skills   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Title:
Post by: spynish on July 20, 2005, 21:43
WOOOWW!!!

Guys I have arrived today to Budapest, and just have driven my car!!!
What can I say...  s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:    s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:    s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:    s:bowdown: :bowdown: s:bowdown:  
It goes well as before if you don't push it (even less loud!!!) you can even imagine the wild beast there is under your rear hood  s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:  !
Well guys still don't have numbers but I'm really AMAZED!  s:mrgreen: :mrgreen: s:mrgreen:  

I'll keep in touch...  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Title:
Post by: Slacey on July 20, 2005, 21:45
Congrats!!! I know the feeling  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Title:
Post by: kanujunkie on July 20, 2005, 21:59
you boys are going to have to stop this talk, my mrs is going to do her nut when i come home one day with one!!!  s:? :? s:?    s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Title:
Post by: spit on July 20, 2005, 22:43
Congrats matey. Get those numbers up and have a safe & smiley journey home. I'll probably see you soon (as per Monday's PMs).
Title:
Post by: spynish on July 21, 2005, 18:35
This is me and my satisfaction face!

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/b/DSC03927.jpg)


Just saying:Oh my God, can't believe that!!!

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/b/DSC03928.jpg)


And satisfaction face  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/b/DSC03929.jpg)



And to end with, my gauges install... The red submarine  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  !

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/DSC03939.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/DSC03940.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/DSC03941.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/DSC03943.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/DSC03944.jpg)

  s:mrgreen: :mrgreen: s:mrgreen:
Title:
Post by: kanujunkie on July 21, 2005, 19:01
that looks superb, really novel design using pipework to hold the guages, i've been impressed with the work that has been done, shame you're so far away, would have been great to see her

ever thought about a set of lowering springs next?? the wheel arch area looks really exposed, or perhaps a nice set of 18's  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Title:
Post by: Anonymous on July 21, 2005, 19:33
You better take some pain killers later because I'm sure your face will hurt like hell with all that grinning.  (http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_2_27.gif)


Enjoy!  (http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_2_25.gif)
Title:
Post by: philster_d on July 21, 2005, 20:30
Is there room for a fan in with the intercooler? to pull the air through ?

Phil
Title:
Post by: Tem on July 21, 2005, 20:54
(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/b/DSC03928.jpg)

You need to lower the car!  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Title:
Post by: Anonymous on July 21, 2005, 21:33
Quote from: "Tem"You need to lower the car!  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:

yeah, 17's and lowering springs do wonders

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y165/redracermr2/DSC00168.jpg)
Title:
Post by: kanujunkie on July 21, 2005, 21:34
Quote from: "Tem"You need to lower the car!  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:

mentioned that one above, now 2 people cant be wrong
Title:
Post by: heathstimpson on July 22, 2005, 08:32
Quote from: "RedRaceR"
Quote from: "Tem"You need to lower the car!  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:

yeah, 17's and lowering springs do wonders

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y165/redracermr2/DSC00168.jpg)
Do you get any problems with both 17" alloys and it lowered   s:?: :?: s:?:
Title:
Post by: Anonymous on July 22, 2005, 13:12
Quote from: "heathstimpson"
Quote from: "RedRaceR"
Quote from: "Tem"You need to lower the car!  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:

yeah, 17's and lowering springs do wonders

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y165/redracermr2/DSC00168.jpg)
Do you get any problems with both 17" alloys and it lowered   s:?: :?: s:?:

If you're talking about rubbing, then no. no problems at all. though ground clearance is an issue let me tell ya   s:) :) s:)   (but that coz of the trial kit)

and I'm running 215/40 in the front and 235/40 in the rear, 7x17 ET42.
Title:
Post by: spynish on July 22, 2005, 21:00
Hi mates!!!

Dyno today...  s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:  
Can show it now because I won't have it till tomorrow, and tomorrow I'm on my way home, but I'll try to...  s:cry: :cry: s:cry:  

But I could tell you that 191 whp at 0.3 Bar is not bad, is it?  s:mrgreen: :mrgreen: s:mrgreen:  
Imagine at 0.6 or 0.7...  s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:  

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/b/DSC03945.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/b/DSC03946.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/b/DSC03947.jpg)

(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/b/DSC03948.jpg)

  s:bowdown: :bowdown: s:bowdown:
Title:
Post by: spit on July 22, 2005, 22:51
Woo-Hoo!!!  s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:
Title:
Post by: philster_d on July 25, 2005, 12:14
How much Euros ?    s:) :) s:)
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Post by: kanujunkie on July 25, 2005, 12:55
dribble, dribble, want........one.........now..................
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Post by: spynish on July 26, 2005, 11:34
Hi again mates,

At home now!
Now after near 3000 km of kit testing I can talk a bit more about the kit. Still running stock injectors since bigger ones didn't arrive on time, but I'm waiting for them. In my opinion bigger injectors are a must, I mean you can run with the stock ones at this boost (0.3 Bar) but, you have to keep an eye on exhaust gas temp. cause at high rpm ca be dangerous.
In fourth gear the stock injectors max out at 6400 rpm, which is closer to the rpm limit but, in fifth (2000 model) you arrive to 850ºC before 6000 rpm (like 5700), and you shouldn't pass that limit.

So, stock injectors are in its limit, I highly recommend upgrade.

We had little problems while drivind back home  s:cry: :cry: s:cry:  , minor ones but a pity... We had a leak in the joint between cat and downpipe and this leak was causing CEL's, we tried to repair it with aluminium tape we bought in a Petrol station, and it broke more than once. Finally we fix it strong and it kept till home.

Other problem we had (not related with turbo though) were tyres. When we leave Budapest, they had 43000 Km and they weren't very good but I thought that good enough to arrive home...
What a big mistake, look how wheels ended, we really had a bad time in Austria, at night and raining a lot...

(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QwAAAPISk2Z2qCOcJkQbq*HlnF46Li9Gceg6FtCKp48Vgik57ByR*DTzI9xjOvJiPEeVgj9J6pPKIK9CtNp6V8gMQE!49V5irvZERWqTluo/IMG_0253.jpg)

(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QwCfAvQSB2d2qCOcJkQbqxxVSUi9jPUR*OgCsrsqAE*XN7fQsxDDaeQ!re5aApeQxNAwQcjioYICx30D4dG*rcCYocs4GrMkpap4Yth4Odo/IMG_0255.jpg)

And now the pleasant part: It's great how fast is the car, we have really made good cruising speeds  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

And you should hear the BOV, it's just incredible. Seems like a bus opening doors  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

Car is really fast now, I most like how it accelerates from stop  s:mrgreen: :mrgreen: s:mrgreen:  
I'm going to make some videos with sound in order you can feel what I'm talking about  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
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Post by: kanujunkie on July 26, 2005, 12:19
i've got to say Spyni, over here in the uk you've caused a lot of talk about how impressive the C2 development has been, Gaspar is probably near God status and the kit is held in high regard, great to hear you got her home safley, give or take a set of wheels,injectors and a gasket, no great worries though, please do let us know how you get on in day to day life with that much power.
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Post by: Anonymous on July 26, 2005, 15:46
Congrats!!!!, glad to hear from you, you made it safe back, risky trip because with new power I bet you crossed half Europe like Alonso. How many speeding tickets to add to the kit cost????   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

Man, thought slicks were not permited anymore in Formula 1, bet ya had scary fun sliping and sliding through Austria. Had the same feeling 2 years ago when pouring so bad in south Portugal, 15 - 20 hydroplaning.

Get to see that in person, you're a teaser. First 15 days of october will be in Marbella, we MUST meet!!!

Have fun, drive safe, and remember...No Cop, No Stop.

Warning ya'll, if visit Spain watch out, plenty of fixed radars
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Post by: Chris on July 30, 2005, 16:30
finally relented and gave into temptation to read this thread...

Although i'm slightly confused by some of the pics (it's not easy to picture where they are) it looks an impressive install!  Shame that the exhaust had to move, as it looked really neat/different at the bottom.

So, another turbo to add to the growing list to resist...   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
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Post by: Anonymous on July 31, 2005, 10:59
Hy everybody,
Sorry for not joining the thread before, I was just too busy with finishing the Mr2 kit for you guys...... NOW I am here in this forum as well and will try to answer any questions.
The most important thing about our company is that we do try to support our costumers if needed even after the purchase. We think a turbo kit is a big investment in your car and you allways want to feel safe with back up, questions, problems or warranty issues. We also think that our costumers are our best teachers to make any changes or to learn how to make kits better.
We make our kits for stock so turnaround time after order is usually 2 weeks after the money is payed.

The MR2 kits are basically 2 stages.
The non intercooled is made for less expenses as possible. Easy fast install and it is made till the end of the dp. You will need to cut and weld on a new flange for the stocl exhoust to match our dp.

The intercooled verison will also have a flexi section installed in the exhoust to prevent vibration coused problems.
However we can also make the 1st setup for order (IC is up Exhoust in the buttom) as it was almost in production. This is probably good for those guys who installing costum (huge) IC and modifying the rear bumper for better flow.

The kits are at the moment in production for our stock the only thing is missing is a stabile supplier for bigger injectors. ( the stock injectors just maxing out at the power of 185whp)
I hope Matt at MWR will soon have a chance to see our kit personally so it gives you a better idea for us and future costumers as well. In my personal view they are the only company I trust in relation of the 1zzfe or 2zzge engines and turbo kits. So if they like our kits you might also purchase it thru them for the same price (and shipping) as we sell.

I personally own a celica GT with our st3 turbo kit and a lots of mods under the hood wich would be a too long list to be detailed. I hope you dony mind a celica owner  cheers
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Post by: spit on July 31, 2005, 11:28
Welcome on board Gaspar, and congratulations to you and the guys for getting this far so quickly.
Let us know when the injector supply issues are resolved.
Quote from: "Chris"Shame that the exhaust had to move, as it looked really neat/different at the bottom.
Its good to see the option being reintroduced, but the mods required to get good flow across the IC will probably be quite extensive, even with a bigger unit.

Gas, can you post Spyni's dyno plot? - I appreciate its stock injectors and low boost, but still would be useful to see.
Ste
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Post by: Anonymous on July 31, 2005, 22:34
Quote from: "spit"Welcome on board Gaspar, and congratulations to you and the guys for getting this far so quickly.
Let us know when the injector supply issues are resolved.
Quote from: "Chris"Shame that the exhaust had to move, as it looked really neat/different at the bottom.
Its good to see the option being reintroduced, but the mods required to get good flow across the IC will probably be quite extensive, even with a bigger unit.

Gas, can you post Spyni's dyno plot? - I appreciate its stock injectors and low boost, but still would be useful to see.
Ste

Thnx Spit, I will solve the injector question fast...
to be honest the IC was nice on the first setup but there is just no airflow at all. I could feel serious difference with the moved IC. I am getting Spynish dyno tomorrow, as the company never emailed us as it was promised. I go and make pics or have it printed.
The car was getting dangerously lean with  the stock injectors at 0,3 bar but even that low and lean it did 191whp wich was ~10whp more what we expected at that boost range. It is a great feeling when something becomes even better then you planned.  s:) :) s:)
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Post by: Anonymous on August 1, 2005, 17:29
Here is the dyno I could get it today. And here is the afr map. As you can see it has the rev limiter at 6250rpm as it was not calibrated well on the dyno. So you can add 6-7% more whp to the final number.
(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/mr2a.JPG)
(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/mr2b.JPG)
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Post by: spit on August 1, 2005, 18:53
Cheers Gas. Impressive if thats 0.3 Bar (it is, isn't it?) For those of us not yet working in metric:
130.7 kW = 175.3 HP
(+9% gives the previously quoted 191, so does your comment mean we expect a little less now?)
224.3 NM = 165.4 ft.lb torque
Its a very smooth power curve - hope that doesn't make it boring    s:!: :!: s:!:   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  
0.85 Lambda = 12.5:1 AFR
Seems to hold itself nicely in the power AFR too (or is that just a bit too close to running rich? - I bow to those in the know for clarification)
Ste
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Post by: Anonymous on August 1, 2005, 19:21
Quote from: "spit"Cheers Gas. Impressive if thats 0.3 Bar (it is, isn't it?) For those of us not yet working in metric:
130.7 kW = 175.3 HP
(+9% gives the previously quoted 191, so does your comment mean we expect a little less now?)
224.3 NM = 165.4 ft.lb torque
Its a very smooth power curve - hope that doesn't make it boring    s:!: :!: s:!:   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  
Seems to hold itself nicely in the power AFR too (or is that just a bit too close to running rich? - I bow to those in the know for clarification)
Ste

Well that should only be 6-7% added so basically it is 188whp "only" as we did the calculation by head after the dyno (dyno measures torqu and then multiplies with rpm so if it was right then of course at rev limit the rpm should be 6700rpm that makes the difference).
Yes it was only 0.3 bar as any higher would not measurable as the stock injectors were running 100% after 6300rpm. Yes the AFR was at the limit getting dangerous (you mean lean IMO). As you know we are adding the Celica GTS injectors but they did not arrive in time to be there at the dyno. My estimate was ~180whp before the dyno.
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Post by: spynish on August 8, 2005, 02:32
Hi mates!

Time for an update. Waiting for injectors, and new downpipe since still having the joint problem (with a flexible part), hope they are sent this week  s:D :D s:D .

Meanwhile enjoy some videos:

http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=tramofinal



Think need more road...  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  :

http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=pistaaa


And my favourite, flying with my 2  s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:  :

http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=saltomr2toni34


I definetly love this car!  s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:
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Post by: Anonymous on August 9, 2005, 23:23
Nice videos Spynish. I can see you are having fun  s;) ;) s;)  (thats turboed life)

We added the flexi section to the IC version, so the final DP looks like this:
(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/b/Picture%20001.jpg)
(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/b/Picture%20005.jpg)
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Post by: spynish on August 9, 2005, 23:43
Sure you like it as much as me!   s:D :D s:D  
Shipment tomorrow, excited again!  s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
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Post by: spit on August 9, 2005, 23:46
That should sort it for you Spyni!
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Post by: spynish on August 10, 2005, 13:33
Hi again guys!

What do you think of installing some fan like this to take out the maximum heat possible from the engine bay? (imagine here in Spain in August, it's easy to make a barbecue in the rear hood   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  ).
I've seen this suction fan, which is a big one and has a great capacity (4000m3/h).

http://www.larkspeed.com/index.pl?p=134385S&a=i

Or would be better for cooling air going inside engine with two fans in the rear of the IC, like Hass has?

Any idea/experience?

Thanks
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Post by: philster_d on August 10, 2005, 13:44
My idea is to get a fan of some description on the back of the IC

Phil
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Post by: dreambackup on August 10, 2005, 14:21
can't really read a dyno graph but it seems the power comes very (too?) hard between around 1500 rpm & 2500 rpm... all that power (with all that torque coming on strong too) under 2500 rpm??? WTF??? you gotta be careful under the rain, buddy  s:? :? s:?
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Post by: philster_d on August 10, 2005, 14:23
RWD in the rain high power, thats the whole point    s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
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Post by: dreambackup on August 10, 2005, 14:24
Quote from: "philster_d"RWD in the rain high power, thats the whole point    s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
yes but the car has to be drivable too  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

I have to find a dyno chart from an original Maserati biturbo, must be similar  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
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Post by: Tem on August 10, 2005, 16:51
Quote from: "spynish"Hi again guys!

What do you think of installing some fan like this to take out the maximum heat possible from the engine bay? (imagine here in Spain in August, it's easy to make a barbecue in the rear hood   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  ).
I've seen this suction fan, which is a big one and has a great capacity (4000m3/h).

http://www.larkspeed.com/index.pl?p=134385S&a=i

Or would be better for cooling air going inside engine with two fans in the rear of the IC, like Hass has?

Any idea/experience?

Thanks

Joe Schmoe (SC) did that...basically you only need when you're sitting still. Once you start moving you get more fresh air in the engine bay than ever with a fan  s8) 8) s8)  JMHO, but it's not necessary...
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Post by: spit on August 10, 2005, 17:07
....but it does get pretty hot out there in the summer months!

Spyni, if you want anything from a UK source let me know - I can't hold her off any longer so a September visit is looking likely.  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

Ste
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Post by: Tem on August 10, 2005, 17:10
Quote from: "spit"....but it does get pretty hot out there in the summer months!

Yeah, but the fan can't create cool air in the summer, it's just circulating the hot air  s;) ;) s;)  Just like when your car is moving...
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Post by: spit on August 10, 2005, 21:41
Quote from: "Tem"Yeah, but the fan can't create cool air in the summer, it's just circulating the hot air  s;) ;) s;)  Just like when your car is moving...
V true, I was just thinking of the poor guy's car when he's crawling in Spanish city traffic.
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Post by: philster_d on August 10, 2005, 23:28
But on the Inter Cooler it will be drawing away heat from the core ?
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Post by: spynish on August 11, 2005, 00:54
Quote from: "spit"....but it does get pretty hot out there in the summer months!

Spyni, if you want anything from a UK source let me know - I can't hold her off any longer so a September visit is looking likely.  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

Ste

Hi Ste,

If you're coming by car, it's a pity I don't have any pennie left to buy a hardtop (you could brought it on your 2   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  )

See you here, mate!  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
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Post by: Joe Schmoe on August 11, 2005, 03:10
Quote from: "Tem"Joe Schmoe (SC) did that
Beanie did.  I don't usually do unnecessary things to my car   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
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Post by: Tem on August 11, 2005, 06:04
Quote from: "spit"
Quote from: "Tem"Yeah, but the fan can't create cool air in the summer, it's just circulating the hot air  s;) ;) s;)  Just like when your car is moving...
V true, I was just thinking of the poor guy's car when he's crawling in Spanish city traffic.

True...but...well...I don't think anything actually minds if they get a little hot. Surely you'll lose some power, but I'm sure there's still more than plenty to keep up with the traffic. And I'm sure he won't be pushing the car in traffic anyway, so the turbo shouldn't make a difference there.


Quote from: "Joe Schmoe"
Quote from: "Tem"Joe Schmoe (SC) did that
Beanie did.  I don't usually do unnecessary things to my car   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

Oops, sorry!  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
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Post by: spynish on August 31, 2005, 23:53
Hi mates!

Time for an update. I know it has taken a long time but everything arrives...

Well, first of all just want to comment a mistake we did in order you don't repeat it   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  !

We take out the rear exhaust heat isolation (this metallic piece) because we thought air would pass through better... Now we know that's not a good idea at all because the exhaust gets very high temps, as you know:

Melted bumper:

(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QwA*A*4SgWh2qCOcJkQbqyUw8!YV4cZ7kAaiupc244DsRvi0jGZIinojSUHyCIEEj!XeXxnxVDZlit2tapSnX!EMS4xIp40GdBuS7Xk2Vyw/IMG_0249.jpg)

Melted and holed number plate "thing":

(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QwCbAvsS12fhRhkXqZr0JgzFrj46Q084moig0jPEsFYXGc0s36W6XlNX87j1y5zJczbIzKaVnPEHY8gCgysjFXwmeO1MexerIi7kb09frE4/IMG_0444.jpg)

And the cables are suffering also:

(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QwA*A*wSEWjhRhkXqZr0JtbmC23Z15wNz6moxYGYR6JyCQqyrLjShA95xcCbf7Hg0uTx0D2CfN69ugHZVkZMggrIK1DEV4pGhB*ox6opHYQ/IMG_0445.jpg)


So, as my downpipe and cat has been replace during these days, we have profit to fit this heat protection again but we have cut the top part to let the air circulate towards the rear engine hood:

(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QwAAAP4ShmjhRhkXqZr0JgQRcsPsif!uzD9SOz5Bke4EySyxY*xNvKSTTLcp790YLUQz!5BqNocxAHsMSPhOc1ERzL1IE9iYXDKVvvddGYY/IMG_0456.jpg)

(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QwDvAv8SwGjhRhkXqZr0JmFMI6NVRTm5ZjOmYxEMyGTcfWbFY4D3qcwHKsrdlD5wHjA!4225znsAP*mhz0Fpz4mGipaSDYdSXJvx2Ir5BiI/IMG_0457.jpg)

This is a bad pic but this is how the new cat looks:

(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QwDoAv0STGjhRhkXqZr0Jk!IcbpiaVw0HclGaUNozqG4QmJ173huFXFyYetL6gOefVtopC*ht2u7U!Iz0!FHsFPzFqjjlGDOeJr9ZgwhwZg/IMG_0455.jpg)

Also, finally we didn't make a too complicated air scoop, we just put a panel to take ground air, it's flexible so it would bend if it hit something:

(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QwDvAvwSEmjhRhkXqZr0JhhXQnasP3uLMTO9HXiqr98ylEEs4cHiQSbZOnJ1at0chBPeL0q56qdLcyqSNmj*xCk0lau9H3ZqjUnm8w2x*kU/IMG_0454.jpg)

(Check also my new Toyo T1-R)  s:D :D s:D  



Well, now the best part, YES Gaspar is taking care of all that. And when I mean taking care I mean he's going to pay the install of new pieces and repairing bumper, though he is near 2000 miles away.

Isn't simply great  s:?: :?: s:?:     s:mrgreen: :mrgreen: s:mrgreen:  

In some days I'll post my new injectors (GTS) upgrade...  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
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Post by: spit on September 1, 2005, 00:31
Quote from: "spynish"Gaspar is taking care of all that. And when I mean taking care I mean he's going to pay the install of new pieces and repairing bumper, though he is near 2000 miles away.
Supergas  s:bowdown: :bowdown: s:bowdown:  

Thanks for the warning Spyni  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  Get those injectors in!
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Post by: Tem on September 1, 2005, 05:50
Quote from: "spynish"We take out the rear exhaust heat isolation (this metallic piece) because we thought air would pass through better... Now we know that's not a good idea at all because the exhaust gets very high temps, as you know:

It's actually the cat that gets super hot. I don't have a cat nor the heat shield and I've had no issues. My whole engine bay is a lot cooler than it ever was with all the stock stuff in place  s8) 8) s8)
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Post by: philster_d on September 1, 2005, 08:45
Im on the list for attention from Gas and so Im looking forward to a visit and also crossing my fingers there are no last minute spanners in the works eg insurance

Philster
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Post by: spynish on September 13, 2005, 23:37
Hi mates,

Here it's a little update:

Finally I have decided to go for this boost controller, I was thinking in getting the profec e01, but don't think I need to spend that amount of money, because this one is cheaper and for my needs it's more than enough. I'm waiting for the emanage software to arrive so don't need this function in my boost controller.

(http://i12.ebayimg.com/01/i/04/f0/fb/8b_1_b.JPG)

And specs:

"The all new Greddy PRofec B-Spec. II basic function to increase boost is as easy as the original, with an added built in boost pressure display and optional features like real-time, peak or last boost display (in either kPa or PSI). There are optional warning and boost limiter functions that can be programmed to offer much more control. The two presets values can be stored and are executed by a larger capacity inline solenoid valve. This unit does not require extensive programming and is ideal for low to high boost levels for single or twin turbos with actuator or external wastegates"

Basically, what I need is to stablish 2 boost levels (0.4 and 0.6 Bar).
As far as I know, GTS injectors are good till 0.6 Bar more or less, and don't want to push the car more than that. In fact, 0.4 Bar will be my everyday boost.

Has anyone used this boost controller? Any comments?

Thanks!
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Post by: BenF on September 14, 2005, 14:49
Spynish,

Sorry for the thread hyjack - but I was just wondering if you get any CELs with the turbo O2 sensors after the turbo, rather than in the exhaust manifold as per the Hass kit.

I've heard of people with the PE downpipe getting CELs from a setup like this, theory being the sensors disturb the airflow. ON my PE install, I've got an adapter loom that feeds the single O2 sensor output into both sensor inputs to fool the ECU.

The reason I'm interested is that at the moment I have just the one O2 sensor after the turbo, and I'm getting a very slight hesistation when the car is idling. Swapping the Toyota O2 sensor for a new (generic) 4 wire O2 sensor actually made the hesistation worse, and the car would sometimes stall, so I went back to the Toyota sensor.

I'm wondering about putting a second O2 sensor back in the downpipe to improve the idle quality at times.

There's also an issue around the post-main-cat o2 sensor in mine causing a CEL, but I suspect that's a wiring issue somewhere ..

Back to your question though too - I've been looking at different boost controllers as the next purchase for the Roadster (not urgent, just a nice to have) and given markiii and Slacey have got Profec E-01s working I'd probably go with one of those. I have used an AVC-R on my old Mk2 and it took me 6 months to get setup right, but once done was excellent.
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Post by: spynish on September 14, 2005, 15:00
Hi BenF,

Well since now, the CELs I have had have been related with my exhaust gas leaking (in theory because I still don't have a OBD2 reader. I bought one and when arrived it didn't work, so I had to sent it back and ask for a new one that still hasn't arrive...). So I'm not the more experienced person to talk about that, but there are many PE turbo kit owners that have one sensor after turbo that I'm sure they can help you more than I can.

I have already installed the new dp and cat, and beacuse of work haven't done many km, so I need more testing.

So, any PE owners here that can add something?

Thanks
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Post by: Anonymous on September 14, 2005, 17:42
The conversion to 1 O2 sensor on the PE isn't so much that their after the turbo and not in the manifold, it's the fact that the second one is directly behind the front. So the flow of gases is blocked from the second sensor so it thinks the engine is running lean so keeps adding fuel, and when it does this and no change is seen at the 2nd sensor it throws a CEL.

I've ran for over 2years with one sensor (though it is now a WB) with no problem or CEL's.

The e-01 is too much money if you haven't got an e-manage to use it with IMO.
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Post by: spynish on September 14, 2005, 18:13
QuoteThe e-01 is too much money if you haven't got an e-manage to use it with IMO

  s:?: :?: s:?:   I don't understand... I do have the emanage, what I still don't have is the emanage software...  s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
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Post by: Anonymous on September 14, 2005, 20:26
Quote from: "spynish"
QuoteThe e-01 is too much money if you haven't got an e-manage to use it with IMO

  s:?: :?: s:?:   I don't understand... I do have the emanage, what I still don't have is the emanage software...  s:roll: :roll: s:roll:

I was aiming that at BenF who has the unichip Spyni, not you.  s:D :D s:D
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Post by: BenF on September 16, 2005, 10:08
Quote from: "mr-s_turbo"The conversion to 1 O2 sensor on the PE isn't so much that their after the turbo and not in the manifold, it's the fact that the second one is directly behind the front. So the flow of gases is blocked from the second sensor so it thinks the engine is running lean so keeps adding fuel, and when it does this and no change is seen at the 2nd sensor it throws a CEL.

I've ran for over 2years with one sensor (though it is now a WB) with no problem or CEL's.

The e-01 is too much money if you haven't got an e-manage to use it with IMO.

Cheers - that makes good sense. I'm wondering if the minor hesitation I've got is due to the fact that the ECU isn't seeing any input at all from the post -cat O2 sensor, and so can't long-term tune the fuel mix.

Using the OBDII reader I've got (Spynish - Mine is this  one :  m http://www.gendan.co.uk/viewproduct.php?product=STNISO (http://www.gendan.co.uk/viewproduct.php?product=STNISO) m  ) the ECU sees 0mV which is wrong - I've datalogged a ride in a 2000 Roadster and captured its output during a normal drive.

Ben
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Post by: aaronjb on September 16, 2005, 11:56
Quote from: "BenF"Cheers - that makes good sense. I'm wondering if the minor hesitation I've got is due to the fact that the ECU isn't seeing any input at all from the post -cat O2 sensor, and so can't long-term tune the fuel mix.

I thought (though I could be wrong, this is just my understanding of general OBD-II specs, and Toyota's implimentation could be different) that the only thing the ECU used the post-CAT O2 sensor signal for was flagging up a CAT failure, and that it played no role in the actual engine management of the car at all..
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Post by: BenF on September 18, 2005, 01:43
Quote from: "aaronjb"
Quote from: "BenF"Cheers - that makes good sense. I'm wondering if the minor hesitation I've got is due to the fact that the ECU isn't seeing any input at all from the post -cat O2 sensor, and so can't long-term tune the fuel mix.

I thought (though I could be wrong, this is just my understanding of general OBD-II specs, and Toyota's implimentation could be different) that the only thing the ECU used the post-CAT O2 sensor signal for was flagging up a CAT failure, and that it played no role in the actual engine management of the car at all..

Yeah, I thought that too. But the O2 sensor does flip lean to rich, and the ECU could be using this information to to fine-tune the overall fuel delivery. The OBD-II outputs give you a long term fuel trim and short term fuel trim - short term being mostly determined by your right foot  s;) ;) s;)  

If I manage to find and fix the break in the wiring loom it should be possible to test this either way though.
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Post by: Anonymous on September 18, 2005, 11:24
The third O2 isn't used for fueling, i remember reading this when i was confused when i found the jspec doesn't have this sensor.

The short term is the instant changes the ecu makes to keep the engine at stoich. Over a certain time the ecu 'learns' how much change it's had to make and then alters the long term trim. This is made to try and keep stoich level and less short term trim is needed. That's why all of us with turbo and a piggy back need to reset your ECU now and again, so the long term is reset from taking some of the fuel that the piggy back puts in.

Ben have you tried wiring the 2 sensors together at the ECU instead of the wiring that Martin had. He never did know exactly what was in the box of tricks for the O2 coversion, so maybe it's gone a bit 'pete tong'  s:?: :?: s:?:
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Post by: spit on September 21, 2005, 23:39
Guess Who.....Part Two!
(http://img275.imageshack.us/img275/2343/c2kitsmall5ee.jpg)
Now what do I do?  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:    s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
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Post by: spynish on September 21, 2005, 23:51
Great!!!

It looks superb! Very shiny!  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
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Post by: Anonymous on September 22, 2005, 00:16
Damn Ste, that makes my Hass kit look about as sexy as Vanessa Feltz. Five years ago. In a bright orange bikini.
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Post by: spit on September 22, 2005, 10:44
Quote from: "Ekona"Damn Ste, that makes my Hass kit look about as sexy as Vanessa Feltz. Five years ago. In a bright orange bikini.

What a lovely image  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  

The camera does lie though - there are some issues to sort out. As with the Hass, its clear that the C2 kit is a low volume fabrication, but no major quibbles. I'm interpreting it as a "rough diamond" and pootling through a tidy-up process at the moment. (I'm guessing that the TTE will poop on Hass & C2 when it comes to production quality)

Found an excellent coating firm locally - more competetive than Zircotec, so me and pipes are shopping tomorrow for ceramic jackets. Gotta choose a colour   s:? :? s:?  

If there is interest, I'll start a new thread on the C2 install. Happy to take pics along the way, so if there's anything you particularly want to see, let me know.

Ste
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Post by: Anonymous on September 23, 2005, 02:57
please definetly guide us through the install as i am also saving up hopefully for a c2 turbo kit for my spyder and would want all the info i can get and from the looks of it i'm gonna be the one installing it with some help from a few mechanic friends so if i had an idea of how it went prior to purchasing that would be greatly appereciated.
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Post by: dimwit on September 23, 2005, 18:58
Spit, which coating firm you going to use?..
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Post by: spit on September 23, 2005, 20:37
Quote from: "ladabonkers"please definetly guide us through the install as i am also saving up hopefully for a c2 turbo kit for my spyder and would want all the info i can get and from the looks of it i'm gonna be the one installing it with some help from a few mechanic friends so if i had an idea of how it went prior to purchasing that would be greatly appereciated.
No problem. Are you still considering the Stage I option? If so, it won't be quite the same, but there will be many common issues. Gas is working up a basic install manual, I'm doing the "warts'n'all" version from a turbo-newbie perspective  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

Quote from: "dimwit"Spit, which coating firm you going to use?..
(http://www.camcoat.u-net.com/manbhkhb.jpeg)
Camcoat Performance Coatings in Warrington. They do various finishes inside & out, dependent on application. I couldn't get there today  s:cry: :cry: s:cry:  , but will be taking the whole kit over to talk through options - their main guy is unbelievably knowledgable, and the firm has a track record with Aston Martin Lagonda and Le Mans teams, so its in safe hands.

Best of all is the price I've been quoted - which I'll confirm when I eventually get there! I'll get a quote for stock and AEM stuff while I'm at it, if its of use to anyone.

Ste
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Post by: Anonymous on September 23, 2005, 21:39
yea i'm probably gonna stick to the stage 1 kit and maybe, i said maybe, upgrade later on down the road but i'm plenty satisfied with 190-200 hp to the wheels. but i love reading technical write ups since i love doing installs myself or at least help out my mechanic friends during the install. i would have considered the hass kit but i don't want to wait half a year to get the kit and the PE kit is just much too expensive for what is offered. almost 3500 for either hass or PE kit over here in the US. i don't really know how much shipping and tax would add to the 2500 price tag of the c2 kit but its still below the other 2 and its a really simple kit which i like. ok now i'm just typing way too much, keep up the good work and keep us posted.
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Post by: spit on September 23, 2005, 21:50
Quote from: "ladabonkers".... ok now i'm just typing way too much....
Yeah, I do that too   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
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Post by: TommyD on September 23, 2005, 23:46
Spit. Camcoat: Good choice for the coating, I would recommend them. I used them to coat up my Hass exhaust and manifold and they have done a nice job. Just got to get it fitted now.


(http://www.cubefish.com/images/ex2.jpg)
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Post by: dimwit on September 24, 2005, 16:02
Thanks for the info Spit,Tommy...
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Post by: philster_d on September 26, 2005, 09:27
I wish this was a C2 delivered option. Coated.
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Post by: Anonymous on September 26, 2005, 14:38
Quote from: "TommyD"Spit. Camcoat: Good choice for the coating, I would recommend them. I used them to coat up my Hass exhaust and manifold and they have done a nice job. Just got to get it fitted now.


(http://www.cubefish.com/images/ex2.jpg)

So how much did it cost you to have those parts coated?
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Post by: spit on September 26, 2005, 19:20
Quote from: "philster_d"I wish this was a C2 delivered option. Coated.
Might be worth asking Gas/Bing to consider this.

Quote from: "TommyD"So how much did it cost you to have those parts coated?
Can't comment on the Hass, but I've just dropped the C2 off today.

I've opted for Racespec triple coat system (good to 1000ºC) - inside & out - on manifold and flexi, double-coat on box, and single coat on tips. Turbo and Compressor housings are also being done, as are the Cooler and 3x air pipes.....thats everything!  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

The guys have done me a great package deal (too obscene to print), but I can tell you some of the pre-haggle individual prices - ex-VAT:

Manifold (triple coat) - £100 (single coat is £60)
Flexi downpipe (triple coat) - £23
Box/cat (double coat) - £27
Twin Tips (single coat) - £35
Turbo housing - £50
Compressor housing - £30
Charge Cooler - £50 (and they're gonna straighten the scoop too!)

As promised, I also asked about triple coating for the stock manifold (assuming its de-pre-catted): £135, or £80 single coat.
Exhaust & pipes dependent on your OEM/AEM setup & coating requirements, although you can probably gauge it from the info above.

Ste
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Post by: TommyD on September 26, 2005, 19:29
Well I can imagine that you have got a great deal there. The Hass cost me £300 +VAT triple coated inside and out and Chrome Tips.
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Post by: markiii on September 26, 2005, 19:30
you don;'t want to be coating the intercooler pipes, that will just make it harder for them to shed heat.
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Post by: spit on September 26, 2005, 19:57
Quote from: "markiii"you don;'t want to be coating the intercooler pipes, that will just make it harder for them to shed heat.

Well, thats what I thought & I had exactly this conversation with the lead tech/MD of Camcoat. He had a scout around the engine bay and I talked him through the install/positioning etc. I didn't fully follow his explanation  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  , but it involved words like retention/ absorption/ reflection/ radiation/ gradients/ transfer etc.

Have to confess I'm bowing to his years of experience on this one. Thanks for raising this Mark - I'll try to get clarification of his rationâle for these pages.

Ste
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Post by: Tem on September 26, 2005, 20:41
Quote from: "spit"
Quote from: "markiii"you don;'t want to be coating the intercooler pipes, that will just make it harder for them to shed heat.

Well, thats what I thought & I had exactly this conversation with the lead tech/MD of Camcoat. He had a scout around the engine bay and I talked him through the install/positioning etc. I didn't fully follow his explanation  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  , but it involved words like retention/ absorption/ reflection/ radiation/ gradients/ transfer etc.

Have to confess I'm bowing to his years of experience on this one. Thanks for raising this Mark - I'll try to get clarification of his rationâle for these pages.

Ste

Coating can improve heat dissipation from IC, but it won't be the same coating that's used to block heat transfer from exhaust pipes. I'm sure he knows what he's doing, but it never hurts to ask  s8) 8) s8)
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Post by: kanujunkie on September 26, 2005, 21:39
so does this mean you're going to fit it then Tommy???
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Post by: TommyD on September 26, 2005, 22:57
Got my clutch going in this Wednesday, so after that I'm ready.  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
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Post by: heathstimpson on September 27, 2005, 07:32
Quote from: "TommyD"Got my clutch going in this Wednesday, so after that I'm ready.  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
What did they charge out of curiousity  s:?: :?: s:?:  And how many hours do they quote  s:?: :?: s:?:  My dad's garage have just changed a Mk2 turbo's clutch and he said it was a pig of a job to do  s:? :? s:?
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Post by: TommyD on September 27, 2005, 08:42
I'm told about 5 hours and approx £270 inc VAT
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Post by: markiii on September 27, 2005, 08:44
sounds pretty much teh same as when mine was done.

allow an extra hour or so for the car to cool down first as it will be hot when you arrive, and they won't be able to start straight away.
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Post by: aaronjb on September 27, 2005, 09:29
Quote from: "markiii"allow an extra hour or so for the car to cool down first as it will be hot when you arrive, and they won't be able to start straight away.

Bah, the weaklings.. they should take a leaf out of your book, mark  s;) ;) s;)
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Post by: heathstimpson on September 27, 2005, 12:32
Quote from: "aaronjb"
Quote from: "markiii"allow an extra hour or so for the car to cool down first as it will be hot when you arrive, and they won't be able to start straight away.

Bah, the weaklings.. they should take a leaf out of your book, mark  s;) ;) s;)
What fireblanket hands Mark  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
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Post by: spit on September 27, 2005, 18:50
Quote from: "markiii"you don;'t want to be coating the intercooler pipes, that will just make it harder for them to shed heat.
Quote from: "spit"Thanks for raising this Mark - I'll try to get clarification of his rationâle for these pages.
This thread is turning in a fair old mix of stuff! Anyhoo - as promised, the rationâle from Camcoat:
QuoteThe density of the air going into the cylinders needs to be as high as possible for max power. Higher pressures and lower temperatures increase the density. The underbonnet heat generated by the exhaust heats the air pipes and hence the air inside. Each 10 degs cooler is worth 1% power on nat asp engines and 2% power on turbo engines. So by insulating the source of heat (the exhaust) and the inlet air pipes the charge air is kept as cool as possible. Same logic applies to the intercooler but here more heat is taken out of the compressed air by using the thermal dispersant coating. There are no detrimental effects.
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Post by: LeeUK on October 17, 2005, 22:04
That bloke knows what he's talking about.... even if we don't!

Sounds like a good place to go, really makes the kit look nice too with a nice lick of paint.

<edit>
Just seen the pictures of the kit new, looks so nice I don't think I could paint it! So nicely polished!   s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
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Post by: spit on October 17, 2005, 22:30
Quote from: "LeeUK"Just seen the pictures of the kit new, looks so nice I don't think I could paint it! So nicely polished!   s:shock: :shock: s:shock:

I know what you mean, but its not just paint - its up to 3 blended ceramic coats - inside & out - each one oven-cured at its optimal temperature..... (Jeez, sounds like an M&S advert  s:lol: :lol: s:lol: )

Picked everything up on Friday. Its still bubble-wrapped, but I'll post pics as soon as I've figured out how to get access to my NTL webspace!! (anyone know??)

BTW, if you like paint and polish, they do a Cermachrome finish too. More bling, but only(!) good to 900ºC with a basecoat.
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Post by: LeeUK on October 18, 2005, 09:41
What other colours do they do, do they do a nice metallic red?
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Post by: spit on October 18, 2005, 09:53
Quote from: "LeeUK"What other colours do they do, do they do a nice metallic red?
Listed colours are:

Satin black 1000 Satin black for performance engines  
Polished 760 Cermakrome  
Matt colours 650 Aluminium,cast iron,blue-grey & dark blue  
Gloss colours 600 Red, white, blue, gold, silver,purple, yellow              

Details at http://www.camcoat.u-net.com/
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Post by: spit on October 18, 2005, 23:18
Quote from: "spit".....but I'll post pics as soon as I've figured out how to get access to my NTL webspace!! (anyone know??)

Still no joy with NTL, but managed to get this hosted by a mate......Dinky-do  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
(http://www.dollarmonitor.com/pittey/coated-low.jpg)
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Post by: spynish on October 19, 2005, 00:14
Nice work spit!

Like the black IC!!!  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
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Post by: LeeUK on October 19, 2005, 20:01
Very nice!   s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
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Post by: spynish on January 26, 2006, 00:34
Hi all, time for a little update!

Following Spit advice, I have recently made the 2 to 1 O2 sensors conversion, and I'm very happy with the results!  s:D :D s:D  

In all the time I've had my MR2 turbo (more than 6 months and 13000 km), I have seen 2 type of CEL's. One of them is "too rich" and the other one about "cat efficiency". I focused on the too rich one and have been trying to solve it, since I thought the other one should be related with this one.

I have been trying to correct the emanage map with Gaspar help, but it didn't work perfectly. From time to time the problem appeared again. And also had noticed a kind of engine bogging between idle revs and 2500 rpms.

Well, my problem wasn't so accentuated like spit one but it seems it was just the same. For some reason, ECU was reading different values in the 2 precat sensors and somehow was a little mad sometimes. In fact, sometimes car was really rich (very noticeble lack of power in the low rpm range) due to this super rich problem (I think because of the safety mode after reading lean values).

So, following spit instructions, I first used a resistor to read from only one O2 sensor, but resistor got really hot and although it seems it holds quite long, looked like burnt bacon...  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

So I changed the config and reweld the black cables to the O2 sensor and connected it in the dp hole, to leave a hole for a wideband (yeah, still don't have it...  s:oops: :oops: s:oops:  ) beside the O2 sensor (similar readings, doing it this way)

And here are the pics:

(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0UgARA4wXp9cfFt32Rhp98L8byhnAS7GNVaVyM7TQFZpEWhjO0ljOSEo*1*HIwsStZEq7Ux4jAQNwe23M5a7EUDX3dznhWmSrDzxiBzdKk6hclyhLf0KrHWx8PiImAfO4/fotos%20coche%20001.jpg)

Left cable running to the downpipe


(http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/118/fotoscoche00213ja.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

And the weldings!  s:D :D s:D  


P.S: Many thanks to all that help me in the turbo conversion fight...  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
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