Hi all,
Im just new here, so thanks already to Liz for the welcome message.
I bought a 2000 x-reg black roadster last friday with 36k on the clock, FSH, all old MoTs etc etc.
By monday I had to return the car to the dealership for repairs for the following reasons:
1) I have had to put 5L of oil in the engine in 3 days of usage,
2) The engine is burning oil,
3) there is a real loss of power,
4) there is oil leaking from somewhere as there is oil on the underside of the "Nappy"
5) There is a slight ticking sound.
The car came with a 6 month warranty but this is capped at £1000.
I have done a lot of reading into loads of other posts on the site about "Precat Failure" and I'm beginning to get the impression its an inevitability as opposed to a possibilty.
I was wondering if anybody could help me out with a few pointers though:
1) Will toyota carry out a repair on the car because its only 36k with fsh?
2) The car was MoT'd by the garage on the morning which i bought it. If the car was burning oil and running so irreguarly, it doesnt make sense that it could pass an emissions test for the MoT. Consequently, I never received the emissions printout with the MoT so this makes me think that there may be a bit of hoarseplay going on. Anybody any idea if this would affect the emissions test?
3) Ive been a bit put off of the mr2 with all the talk of the engine failures etc, so in all honesty i dont really want the car any more. I would also be under the impression that the garage would be better off refunding me and selling the car at market than trying to fit a new engine and exhaust. Does anybody know in clarity the law regarding refunds on cars which are faulty and not fit for their purpose as at the moment I would really refer to get my money back???
Any help which anybody could offer would be a great help, as the whole hassle with this car has really depressed me.
Thanks in advance,
Richie.
sounds like the sales description act to me.
goods required to be fit for purpose?
Don't let it put you off the '2, its a great car. Sounds like they have tried to rip you off with a car whose engine is about to blow s:evil: :evil: s:evil:
cheers guys, but even if i were to get it all fixed up etc i am still concerned that all the problems with the mr2 egnine will cause the residual values of the car to drop significantly.
Also, has it been proven that gutting the precats out of the manifold is the definitive preventative measure?
define proven?
your never going to be able to gather enough info to definatively prove it.
however we know what happens if they go, so removing them will obviously prevent that problem.
is it cause or effect, who knows?
Hi Richie,
Your welcome for the welcome!!
Have a look on Here (http://www.oft.gov.uk/Consumer/Your+Rights+When+Shopping/Cars/default.htm) to see if this is of any help, but as Mark said, not fit for the purpose under the sale of goods act would more than apply.
try your local trading standards for pointers and guidance
cheers guys & gal,
Im going to the garage where the car is presently being repaired this afternoon for a look at the precats and so on. Im also printing off stuff from here to show that this is a common problem and that the engine & exhaust is at the stage where it would now need replaced to solve this problem, as it is burning oil heavily.
Hopefully this should convince them to give me a refund and for them to put the car through a market or something as this would be everybodies best option all round.
I am so disapointed though as i took out the loan to buy myself the car for my 21st birthday (im too good to myself) and it was back in the garage before my birthday s:( :( s:(
sigh...
I've just received a bit of excellent news!!
Toyota have confirmed that they are aware of the problem and are going to be fitting a brand new engine and exhaust system to my car, as they have now extended the warranty to 5 years / 60,000 miles.
My car goes into linwood toyota on monday morning to have the old engine stripped down and so on as toyota need to confirm that this is defo. the problem that has affected my car, but this shouldn't pose too much of an issue I hope.
Last night i asked the guy at the garage who are presently looking at my car to remove the lambda sensors and to inspect the precats, and in doing so he said that there was nothing there whatsoever. I dont know whether this is because of somebody gutting it or because it has eventually fallen apart, but you get the idea.
They said that they haven't had this problem with any mr2's so far, but it has happend with 3 or 4 avensis with the 1.8vvti engine and it has been replaced on these a few times.
Il top up this post with further information as i get it, but for the meantime il need to make do with a honda accord 2.0 vtec executive as a courtesy car. s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
I hope the confirmation of an extended warranty helps out some people who are a bit woried about their '2 at present.
Cheers,
Richie.
Quote from: "Richie"I've just received a bit of excellent news!!
Toyota have confirmed that they are aware of the problem and are going to be fitting a brand new engine and exhaust system to my car, as they have now extended the warranty to 5 years / 60,000 miles.
Will the warrenty be extended for all Toyotas under 5years old or only newly registered ones I wonder s:?: :?: s:?:
QuoteWill the warrenty be extended for all Toyotas under 5years old or only newly registered ones I wonder
Well, mines is a 2000 and i bought it from a private dealership (Not a toyota garage) so if toyota are choosing to repair mines, i dont see why they wouldn't do any others.
Again, I haven't seen it in writing that toyota are definately extending the warranties but from looking at other posts from other people, its not the first time that the warranty extension has been mentioned.
Quote from: "heathstimpson"Quote from: "Richie"I've just received a bit of excellent news!!
Toyota have confirmed that they are aware of the problem and are going to be fitting a brand new engine and exhaust system to my car, as they have now extended the warranty to 5 years / 60,000 miles.
Will the warrenty be extended for all Toyotas under 5years old or only newly registered ones I wonder s:?: :?: s:?:
Interesting s:) :) s:) And will they refund the 360quid I paid for an extended warranty I wonder?
I reckon this'll be an "if you have a problem and complain enough" type offer s:) :) s:)
Quote from: "phil4"Quote from: "heathstimpson"Quote from: "Richie"I've just received a bit of excellent news!!
Toyota have confirmed that they are aware of the problem and are going to be fitting a brand new engine and exhaust system to my car, as they have now extended the warranty to 5 years / 60,000 miles.
Will the warrenty be extended for all Toyotas under 5years old or only newly registered ones I wonder s:?: :?: s:?:
Interesting s:) :) s:) And will they refund the 360quid I paid for an extended warranty I wonder?
I reckon this'll be an "if you have a problem and complain enough" type offer s:) :) s:)
Which is good news if you blow an engine or something; extended warrenty probably not needed then.
Quote from: "heathstimpson"Quote from: "phil4"Quote from: "heathstimpson"Quote from: "Richie"I've just received a bit of excellent news!!
Toyota have confirmed that they are aware of the problem and are going to be fitting a brand new engine and exhaust system to my car, as they have now extended the warranty to 5 years / 60,000 miles.
Will the warrenty be extended for all Toyotas under 5years old or only newly registered ones I wonder s:?: :?: s:?:
Interesting s:) :) s:) And will they refund the 360quid I paid for an extended warranty I wonder?
I reckon this'll be an "if you have a problem and complain enough" type offer s:) :) s:)
Which is good news if you blow an engine or something; extended warrenty probably not needed then.
Hehehe, what an optimist s:) :) s:)
Quote from: "phil4"Quote from: "heathstimpson"Quote from: "phil4"Quote from: "heathstimpson"Quote from: "Richie"I've just received a bit of excellent news!!
Toyota have confirmed that they are aware of the problem and are going to be fitting a brand new engine and exhaust system to my car, as they have now extended the warranty to 5 years / 60,000 miles.
Will the warrenty be extended for all Toyotas under 5years old or only newly registered ones I wonder s:?: :?: s:?:
Interesting s:) :) s:) And will they refund the 360quid I paid for an extended warranty I wonder?
I reckon this'll be an "if you have a problem and complain enough" type offer s:) :) s:)
Which is good news if you blow an engine or something; extended warrenty probably not needed then.
Hehehe, what an optimist s:) :) s:)
Yes my glass is always half full s:wink: :wink: s:wink: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
I agree that its probably a "if you make a fuss about it" situation. I think toyota probably see it as something they don't want to publicise for the following reasons:
1) bad publicity for their "reliability reputation"
2) they would be opening a can of worms where anybody with this engine, problems or not, would go flooding to the dealership demanding a new engine in case it happend to their car.
Richie.
It does look bad on Toyota when any engines with relatively low mileage are not lasting s:? :? s:?
Its worrying though as for them to extend the warranty (as good an offer as it is) tells us the engine is an unreliable one and they know it.
Does'nt instill me with great confidence and the 50:50 chance of them extending the warranty after the 3 year warranty expires would still make me want to change the car at the 3 year point!
Wonder will you get a 3 year warranty on new engine and exhaust system? Do you know?
I'm interested in this extended bit....
I think you will probably find the truth is something more akin to good will on behalf of Toyota knowing the problems with the engine.
I suspect that the 5 year extention is only on the engine, due to the failures on the 1ZZ and not the other items that are failing, such as Steering Pumps, MAF Sensors, Break Discs, etc.
Therefore, for peace of mind the proper extended warranty is still good value.... (I would say that after about £8k's worth of work in total).
Cheers
Darren
PS - I will ask about this "extension" at my local dealer.
I would tend to agree with what Darren is saying, the details I have given have been relayed to me from the foreman of the garage where my car is presently, so they may be subject to chinese whispers...
To clarify, it is most likely as follows:
1) The car itself has a 3 year warranty on all parts from new.
2) to avoid publicity of a design fault etc, toyota have decided to repair / replace engines damaged by "Precat Failure" and any components damaged subsequently, e.g. exhaust systems, providing they are newer than 5 years old and below 60k.
3) I would assume the above is on a discretionary basis and is dealt with on a case-by-case basis.
4) As no other components / faults are covered by the above, I would also agree that an extended warranty is a valuable investment, afterall some people are saying they have had £8000 of repairs so far.
Another question i have for all the other '2 roadsters owners is about the brake discs - what is the problem with them????
When i bought my '2, i took it for a test drive and the brake pedal was thumping when i braked and there was a clunking noise when i steered. I had put it down to warped discs from hard use, however the dealership phoned me to say that one of the discs was cracked, and they had replaced all four discs and the brake pads. This repaired the problem anyway, so I was happy enough with this.
Cheers,
Richie.
Hi Richie,
The Brake Discs are very good on the roadster, it sounds like you have been unlucky with yours.
Normal problems are excessive rusting on the outer vains, which dosen't effect performance, but looks a bit crappy and also the hubs can discolour.
Other than that, normal usage shouldn't see any problems with the discs or pads, which perform very well.
Now they have been replaced, I would forget about them as they pretty bulit proof bar the above mentioned.
Cheers
Darren J
Cool mate, I was just wondering, but like you say, its not a problem as I now have a nice shiney new set of them.
Any thoughts as to whether I can use this extended waranty to sort my very similar problem.
m http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8159 (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8159) m
Only problem is mine is an import with very little history !
Questions to ask first:
1. When did you purchase the extended warranty ? (is it the one purchased from the dealer)
2. When you say import - what type of import - a Europe Import (i.e. Motorpoint, Belgium, etc, etc) or a Japanese Import, i.e. like the one Jap300 brings in ?
Once you have answered the above:
depending on the answers will depend on what you may / may not be able to get done.
My car had full dealer service history (at the same dealer) as well as extended warranty being taken out prior to the three year point.
Basically the engine problem - was either going to be covered under Extended warranty or toyota, in the end I think one paid for the cats, exhaust, etc and then Toyota paid for the block.
As for routine maitaince, basically the car's normally get an oil change, so as long as yours has received this, I would say you should have a fairly good change of them sorting it under warranty (as long as the answers to the above are correct).
Cheers
Darren J
Maybe im confused, I thought this thread was suggesting that Toyota had admitted that there was a problem with their engines and was offering to sort any engines that had died in this pre cat related way.
Is that not the case then ? s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
Hi,
I think the thread would suggest that, but I would love someone to be able to get an offical letter saying that.
I think the case is "engine Failures" will be looked upon with some sympathy and a contribution or full replacement may be offered if the curcumstances are correct.
This "5 Years" warranty on engines would be excellent, but I beleive it's maybe its an "only known to the dealer" information.
Cheers
Darren J
The best thing you can do is go along to a few toyota dealers and ask them mate, theres nothing to lose.
Richie.
Think thats exactly what im gonna do.
Soon as ive put my maifold, exhaust etc back together after gutting the pre cats.
A little bit of info for anybody taking their car in to toyota:
One of the things they require is to measure your oil consumption under various conditions, so basically they want you to do 1000 miles and see how much oil it uses, whichi is a bit of a pain in the arse to be honest.
Because my car is so bad, they are allowing me to just have 100 miles done and then they will take it on. Basically, after 53 miles, my engine had used 3 litres of oil, so at the moment my car is almost using more oil than petrol lol.
the car goes back in to toyota today, so i will post any more updates as i get them.
Cheers,
Richie.
Quote from: "Richie"...... Basically, after 53 miles, my engine had used 3 litres of oil,.....
s:shock: :shock: s:shock: s:shock: :shock: s:shock: s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Tee, Hee....
They got me to do the same, I did 200 miles and had used most of the oil, therefore being 200 miles away from the toyota garage I rang them and said if you think I'm bringing it back without filling it up, you better think again !
Needless to say I topped her up and had a nice drive back and then stright in the garage as soon as afterwards.
The garage seemed quite happy for me just to keep topping up until they could get it in for all the work, the only issue was the amount of oil I was getting through! it was nearly costing me as much as the petrol !
Cheers
Darren J
Well, it seems that toyota have completely changed their minds and are not doing my car under warranty - they have told me this themselves when i phoned them directly - im so angry because thats me been without the car for around 3 weeks now and nothing has been done!!
anyway, I'm not sure what to do now - either demand my money back from the dealership or find another engine for the car and have the dealership pay for it.
I still havent spoken to them yet.
any suggestions on where to go next with this one? s:( :( s:(
Hi Richie,
So Toyota have called you direct !?
Seems strange it's normally the garage that do all the running about.
What a strange situation, you say you have a warranty but its capped ? who buy ? was it a Toyota Warranty ? if it was there is no capping at all !
You need to speak to your garage, cos if it's in bits, they are going to want someone to pick up the bill !
Sorry to hear that you are having such a poor time, please keep us all informed.
Cheers
Darren J
Cheers for the sympathy Darren, I'l clarify the situation for you a little....
I bought the car at the beginning of august from a private dealer. This included a 6 month warranty from motorcare plc, however this warranty was only upto £1000.
The morning I picked the car up, it just had its oil & filter change so i never thought to check the oil. I began to notice blue smoke out the car when i accelerated and realised that the car didnt have a great deal of power. 2 days later, the oil pressure light came on and the engine was making a horrible thudding sound (like big end bearings gone) I bought oil for it and topped it up which did help but the following morning i took it back to the garage i bought it from.
one of the engineers there heard that toyota were warranty repairing the 1zz-fe engines suffering this precat failure where the cars were under 5 years old / 60k. They referred my car to linwood toyota where the car is now.
Basically, linwood toyota then did the consumption tests and found my car burnt 3 litres of oil in 50 miles s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
after a week, I heard nothing else so decided to phone linwood toyota for myself. They told me that they werent going to repair my car as it was older than 3 years so no longer under the standard manufacturers warranty.
I then took matters into my own hands and phoned toyota GB myself and spoke to customer relations. They took my details and said they would phone me back, which they never.
Then yesterday, I phoned them back with my reference to see what was happening. They told me that sometimes they will do the repair under goodwill providing the car has a full TOYOTA DEALERSHIP service history and is within suitable age and mileage. they then continued to say that the toyota dealership would be responsible for paying a contribution towards the work.
Finally they said that there is no good will policy on the toyota mr2 so therefore there is nothing to cover it. She told me that it was only the avensis with this engine which was covered.
so basically, thats me upto where I am.
Ive just had a phone call from jap spares ltd to say that they have an engine with 4000 miles on it, and they want £1395 & £60 delivery then vat on top of that so il let the dealership know s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
I still dunno if i'd be better off just asking for my money back then buying another mr2, but i don't know if i'd get another one at such a good price.
PLEASE HELP s:( :( s:(
Richie.
Get your money back and buy another. You will find another at a similar price, especially as the summer is coming to an end. Get rid!
Quote from: "Richie"She told me that it was only the avensis with this engine which was covered.
Very interesting. If Toyota admit the engine has a problem why are they being selective about which car its in?
I got this one at £7600 so i only took a loan out for that amount. The problem is, now I would need to find another one at this price as i dont have any other money to put towards it and I would say its probably rare to find one within this budget, especially in black with leather, 17s, UK spec.
unless anybody knows of any going for this amount?
Richie.
Quote from: "roger"Quote from: "Richie"She told me that it was only the avensis with this engine which was covered.
Very interesting. If Toyota admit the engine has a problem why are they being selective about which car its in?
I couldn't agree more!!!
Quote from: "Richie"She told me that it was only the avensis with this engine which was covered.
Very interesting. If Toyota admit the engine has a problem why are they being selective about which car its in?
Worth an arguement, by somebody else I reckon, but I still say for you Ritchie, the very bet deal is get your money back.
Im just off the phone to toyota asking that very question.
The answer....
"It has been a more common issue on avensis models therefore a procedure has been put in place. At present, it is a rare issue on the MR2 so it is dealt with on a case-by-case basis"
when i said that it was the exact same engine so it shouldn't matter she said she was not technical and offered to put me through to a toyota service department who were technical, but i declined saying that my question was policy based, not technical.
great load of use they were!!
Quote from: "Richie"I got this one at £7600 so i only took a loan out for that amount. The problem is, now I would need to find another one at this price as i dont have any other money to put towards it and I would say its probably rare to find one within this budget, especially in black with leather, 17s, UK spec.
unless anybody knows of any going for this amount?
Richie.
Take the wheels off? Put some second hand MR2 ones on. Ebay, here? They can be picked up very cheap. Especially if they need reconditioning.
my only concern with that is all of the ebay ones seem to be quite far away from me and i wouldn't bid on a car without seeing it first.
Even then, If i saw one out of ebay, id probably prefer to buy it outwith the auction if i could.
Well, i eventually had enough of all the BS from:
Arnold clark linwood Toyota, Toyota GB, braehead motor co and renfrew motor engineers
and have now officially returned the car to get my money back.
SO IF ANYBODY KNOWS OF ANY ROADSTERS GOING AT A GOOD PRICE, PLEASE PM ME OR REPLY HERE.
Im after a UK car with decent miles, colour not too much of an issue, although i dont really like green or yellow (no offence to those with those colours)
cheers,
richie.
Well done. You can now breathe a sigh of relief, and start again. s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Quote from: "Richie"...... but i don't know if i'd get another one at such a good price.
Well done on getting a refund, re your above quote don't you think that the reason it was at that price is because they were aware maybe of the problem?
nah, because they would never have accepted the car as a trade in in the first place if they knew that. Even if they found out whilst it was on the forecourt, i think they would have stuck it through an auction and saved themselves the hassle.
Im just glad all the hassle is over (Hopefully) and am looking forward to getting a good example of a '2 now.
Richie.
Well more or less the same happend to me 2 days and lot of oil and my 2000 mr2 went back the problem i have is because they started repairing it I cant get a refund now. They have had it 2-3 weeks and have sent the engine away because the piston rings went?!
It sound like it is having a good repair job what do you think?
its due back on thursday/friday
Jimbo - Piston Rings / Bore wear, same issue as all the other failures, if they do the full kit replacement, you will have a very sound engine once again.
consider it a heart transplant, but without the problem of having to take drugs for rejection.
Cheers
Darren J
PS. Suprised it's had to "go away" my garage did it themselves, thought it was great fun, normally they just tinker, but loved having an engine rebuild to do.
I can do you a silver 2000 import with AC for £7600? Mileage is around 25,000
Richie - Snap and Hand come to mind with Adams offer !
dang me too if I could rewind time. s:lol: :lol: s:lol: