John, when you say you added grease to the bushes, you meant to say carnuba wax right?

Quote from: Topdownman on June  3, 2019, 16:51
John, when you say you added grease to the bushes, you meant to say carnuba wax right?

No... Just normal grease... I'm guessing they've dissolved now?

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Grease will attract dirt and get sticky over time and start to grind the paint off I imagine.

On the other hand, the wax makes them low friction but dry.

Quote from: Topdownman on June  3, 2019, 17:07
Grease will attract dirt and get sticky over time and start to grind the paint off I imagine.

On the other hand, the wax makes them low friction but dry.

right.. ok... I might also try get some of that see through tape I saw...

Right onto the diagnosing of the O2 sensors business...
- Post cat O2 sensor was in situ when I when I was installing the new cat, so it was subject to a lot of vibration from the impact gun when I was taking out the bolts.. my experience to date with these things is that'll cause problems.. but the curious thing is that running stock ECU (no EMU) it doesn't throw errors... 

Question - does the nature of running a piggy back increase the chance of variation in signals being perceived as an error by the ECU?

@Shnazzle and I have been through things we could test, and I've tested every single wire on the EMU loom for continuity and can get a beep out of everything. Patrick reckons that the O2 sensors go straight through the EMU loom to the Stock ECU so they shouldn't cause problems... I've also read on other forums that these things just occasionally hiccup and cause these errors..

In terms of routes to test now, I will run the car as stock for the next few days to see if any errors occur, but then if I am to try to run the EMU again I could replace the Post cat O2 sensor to see if the error returns or I could go straight to wideband which would enable the auto tune functionality of the EMU.. but narrowband is like £30 odd and wideband is at least £150..

I have found a list of Widebands that have been tested to be compatible with the EMU, so will keep an eye on ebay to see if anything suitable comes up..
1. Aem uego(singal or dual)
2. the Innovate LM-1 
3. the Innovate LC-1
4. The NGK Powerdex AFX
5. The PLX wideband
6. The PLX R-500 Wideband computer

The EMU (or any piggyback to my knowledge) has absolutely no interest in factory narrowband o2 readings. Why would it? Its there to overrule fueling!

So it has to be a straight through connection on the harness.
Which is why I was pointing towards the earths. If it's not earthing properly it could cause the heaters to not get enough power.
BUT, you're only getting 2 errors, and to my knowledge all 3 heaters share the same earth. So that debunks my theory.

All in all, it makes no sense for the EMU to cause any o2 sensor issues. So that leaves wiring issues on the harness or two dodgy sensors

Quote from: shnazzle on June  4, 2019, 15:19
The EMU (or any piggyback to my knowledge) has absolutely no interest in factory narrowband o2 readings. Why would it? Its there to overrule fueling!

So it has to be a straight through connection on the harness.
Which is why I was pointing towards the earths. If it's not earthing properly it could cause the heaters to not get enough power.
BUT, you're only getting 2 errors, and to my knowledge all 3 heaters share the same earth. So that debunks my theory.

All in all, it makes no sense for the EMU to cause any o2 sensor issues. So that leaves wiring issues on the harness or two dodgy sensors

It's highly likely to be two dodgy sensors.. what else can I do to the wiring harness to make sure it's ok? Take out and repin the relevant pins for the O2 sensors?

Nah. It's either earth or sensors.

Piggybacks can be fickle.
The unichip on my silver threw a regular code that none of the previous owners had.
I'm not really sure their worth the effort.

I would not bother with a piggyback on these cars and just remove it as no point having it in there, you wont get any noticeable gains longterm as the stock ecu is always fighting against it and tuning itself back to what it wants to be so they are always fighting each other, it just complicating the wiring and adds to potential issues like you have.

I had a good long chat with Lee from Se7en motorsports the other day about ecu's on these cars as im planning a low boost setup in future, he says trying to get  piggyback to work is a nightmare on the MR2 ecu and they have just given up with them, which was a disappointment as i really liked the EM Blue i had on the old Mazda as a cheap solution for low boost charging but at least it saves me chasing issues trying to get one to work.

Quote from: thetyrant on June  4, 2019, 16:11
I would not bother with a piggyback on these cars and just remove it as no point having it in there, you wont get any noticeable gains longterm as the stock ecu is always fighting against it and tuning itself back to what it wants to be so they are always fighting each other, it just complicating the wiring and adds to potential issues like you have.

I had a good long chat with Lee from Se7en motorsports the other day about ecu's on these cars as im planning a low boost setup in future, he says trying to get  piggyback to work is a nightmare on the MR2 ecu and they have just given up with them, which was a disappointment as i really liked the EM Blue i had on the old Mazda as a cheap solution for low boost charging but at least it saves me chasing issues trying to get one to work.

It's hard. Not impossible. Many have run excellent turbo setups on piggyback. The trick is to work with the stock ECU. Feed it extra fuel when it's happy for it, and leave it the hell alone when it knows better.

Same applies to N/A; you can have a bit fun in the open loop areas, and messing with timing a bit gets you some driveability gains. As long as you leave the closed loop fueling alone. It'll just fight and you'll always lose.

Most tuners will not bother trying to figure out where the stock ECU interfered and try to work around it. Some do, like Noble.

I've given up on fueling on my emanage, but the timing changes definitely make a noticeable difference that I've confirmed quite a few times

Quote from: shnazzle on June  4, 2019, 15:19
The EMU (or any piggyback to my knowledge) has absolutely no interest in factory narrowband o2 readings. Why would it? Its there to overrule fueling!

So it has to be a straight through connection on the harness.
Which is why I was pointing towards the earths. If it's not earthing properly it could cause the heaters to not get enough power.
BUT, you're only getting 2 errors, and to my knowledge all 3 heaters share the same earth. So that debunks my theory.

All in all, it makes no sense for the EMU to cause any o2 sensor issues. So that leaves wiring issues on the harness or two dodgy sensors

OK this doesn't make sense to me... how can the sensors be dodgy with the EMU connected, but not when running stock? Surely if the sensors were on their way out I'd have gotten another error by now?

Which basically means it's got to be triggered by the presence of the EMU setup in some way... I'll need to look very closely at the wiring loom and the pin out diagram and check to see if I can find anything amiss..

Emu intercepts very few wires.
MAF, air temp, throttle, crank signal, cam signal, rpm, coolant temp and speed. It cuts into each injector and ignition wires.

It does not cut into any o2 sensors or anythijt to do with Vvti. It simply doesn't even have the inputs or outputs for it. You'd have to wire it up wrong for it to interfere with o2 sensors or its heaters. As you have a boomslang harness, this will not be the case.
The only other thing it gets is 12v and a couple of earths (one for sensors and one for ignition) .
That's usually where the issues stem from; earthing.

Bad earths are the cause of most auto electric issues.

Unless you didn't disable the battery when plugging it in/out and you've shorted something

The codes mean open circuit or short circuit. So...
Checking the resistance across heater terminals of the sensor will confirm or refute a sensor fault.
Measuring the resistance between the heater terminals on the loom at ecu and earth should indicate whether it is short or open circuit. Near zero is short circuit, a lot more than 35 is open circuit. Try it with and without EMU.

Just throwing this into the equation, I'm sure the Blue I currently have cluttering the place up has the same boomslang harness?
If you're still struggling with it once you've done your testing and the Blue hasn't sold you're welcome to try my harness to potentially rule out any issues with yours.
Assuming mine is ok in the first place but I've no reason to believe it isn't, bought in good faith the same as yours.


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Quote from: shnazzle on June  4, 2019, 16:26


It's hard. Not impossible. Many have run excellent turbo setups on piggyback. The trick is to work with the stock ECU. Feed it extra fuel when it's happy for it, and leave it the hell alone when it knows better.

Same applies to N/A; you can have a bit fun in the open loop areas, and messing with timing a bit gets you some driveability gains. As long as you leave the closed loop fueling alone. It'll just fight and you'll always lose.

Most tuners will not bother trying to figure out where the stock ECU interfered and try to work around it. Some do, like Noble.

I've given up on fueling on my emanage, but the timing changes definitely make a noticeable difference that I've confirmed quite a few times

That's good to know that some have had them working and I wont totally rule them out if go forced induction, I would be surprised by any noticeable gains in N/a form though as Toyota and most other manufacturers generally do a pretty good job on the fuel/timing side of things using knock sensor to pull back for bad fuel/heat soak etc, however im always open to learn how different setups work for people so if you have a thread with your piggyback tuning and data I would be interested in reading more on your findings

Apologies fo offtopic OP 

Ian

Wow - LOTS of input, thanks guys.
all work was done with the battery disconnected - I've had to get used to fixing the radio each time as it reverts to some kind of disco inferno routine..

I'm confident that the loom is fine, I've tested everything ad nauseum..  a relatively easy way of testing this is to just replace the post cat sensor (I have tested it with the multimeter and it seems fine - but who knows..) and if the error returns it's definitely something to do with the EMU. But Dan had quite a lot of success with his setup (boosted) so maybe it's just that it's better suited to that sort of application and running wideband...

Quote from: Call the midlife! on June  4, 2019, 20:36
Just throwing this into the equation, I'm sure the Blue I currently have cluttering the place up has the same boomslang harness?
If you're still struggling with it once you've done your testing and the Blue hasn't sold you're welcome to try my harness to potentially rule out any issues with yours.
Assuming mine is ok in the first place but I've no reason to believe it isn't, bought in good faith the same as yours.

Thanks very much for the offer - I may take you up on it...

Not so sadly (wrt the wideband).
The EMU is known to be an utter pain in the ass to hold AFR.
The feedback loop logic and PID implementation of the EMU is sadly lacking. It "gets the job done" for the most part but if you're going 10/10ths with it... No

It's a great piece of kit for low boost and n/a. Quite good  at allowing you to run different /bigger injectors and it can control the pulse width of each injection. So it's no joke. Timing is a funny one... A lot of fakery involved.

What you need... Is an Apexi...


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Quote from: Call the midlife! on June  5, 2019, 10:27
What you need... Is an Apexi...


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Yes, yes indeed

OK so I'm filing this for later - I've reached the conclusion that I want more power but I'm going to try and approach this in a minimal issues post installation fashion..

Basically in my book, "stock" is good, opening and engine, tuning and fiddling is BAD... added to this I'm after an engine that was manufactured in the last 5 years roughly..
So what I want is a "newish" engine that develops significant power.

I've been watching Marc @ Frankenstein Motorworks threads and am quite keen on the AR series conversion.

Component    Cost £
8AR-FE Right side motor Mount - will need to be made    £116.49
EB6x Transmission mount kit    £310.91
2AR-FE A/C delete idler    £70.05
DBW Pedal adaptor    £51.95
8AR-FE conversion thermostat housing    £165.29
8AR-FE ECU with immobiliser removed    £299.11
8AR-FE MAF pipe & hardware    £235.35 (Might not need)
ECU Brackets    £28.34
Spherical Bearing Shift cable end    £34.63
ACT 8AR-FE flywheel    £224.33
Performance Clutch kit    £287.30
Custom B-pipe    £-   
RAV 4 Driveshafts
Engine    £1,416.81
Total    £3,240.57

Engine cost is an estimate, and I'd still need to figure out the B pipe and right side engine mount costs.. will also need to find an EB series gearbox (09 Camry).. but theoretically this is a sub £4k build that would deliver some decent power on a stock ECU and components tune..

Essentially what I'm aiming for is a fit and forget solution that does not require me to open the engine up, or fit an after market solution to increase power...

But then who has £4k sitting around?.. not me!

I want more power (may never happen) and am aware of some of the possibilities, but what is this engine? size wise power wise, thanks

Quote from: 105e on June 27, 2019, 13:23I want more power (may never happen) and am aware of some of the possibilities, but what is this engine? size wise power wise, thanks

It's the Toyota 8AR-FTS engine, as found in the Lexus RC/FC 200t series.
Roughly 240 bhp and 350Nm from a 2 litre engine.

Marc has already done the 2AR series, which is a 2.5 litre developing 205 rwhp and is NA..

That sounds the best alternative i have heard of so far, wouldnt want to go above 2 ltr because of road tax cost implications, although no doubt government already has plans to make anything above 1000 cc only a rich mans/womans toy..

Quote from: 105e on June 27, 2019, 14:59That sounds the best alternative i have heard of so far, wouldnt want to go above 2 ltr because of road tax cost implications, although no doubt government already has plans to make anything above 1000 cc only a rich mans/womans toy..

Unless things have recently changed that I am not aware of, if you put a different engine in, the road tax stays the same as the original car/engine regardless of the bigger engine.