I'd use a bigger cat.  I don't think heat has been a problem.  Adding an intercooler could be done, but I'm not sure about the real benefit.  That's an experiment that would have to be conducted.  With an intercooler (or charge cooler) one could run a smaller supercharger pulley and get more power, but at what cost, in terms of engine reliability?  The connecting rods in a 1ZZ aren't the strongest.

I don't see supercharger reliability as a great problem as Eaton M45 superchargers are easy to come by and not difficult to service and refurbish.  The actual changing out of the supercharger is not a huge job, should one fail.  There is minimal amount of physical modification required to get the unit to fit to the mounting brackets, but not much and you have an example to use as a pattern.

Attaching the input plumbing to the supercharger is a challenge, but I think the method we used works just fine.

@Gibla:  when you next visit, we can discuss in more detail?

@shnazzle:  If the engine was the other way round (like a MK1) then that would solve having to build a custom exhaust, but, until one actually sees the layout of the different engine, it's impossible to say if the installation would be 'easier'.  The space may be taken up with the alternator, possible a power steering pump and/or an A/C pump.  Any engine can be supercharged, space permitting.  The challenge we took on was to do it to a 1ZZ in a MK3, as it wasn't obvious, at first, that it could be done.  The only way to find out was to do it!

Quote from: Carolyn on January 24, 2022, 09:28I'd use a bigger cat.  I don't think heat has been a problem.  Adding an intercooler could be done, but I'm not sure about the real benefit.  That's an experiment that would have to be conducted.  With an intercooler (or charge cooler) one could run a smaller supercharger pulley and get more power, but at what cost, in terms of engine reliability?  The connecting rods in a 1ZZ aren't the strongest.

Spot on imo.
The draw back of a supercharger is the ´parasitic´ power; the more it blows, the more more the engine needs to produce.
Unlike with a turbo which cósts nothing to spool up, to produce power.
Thé thing for the kick, no so much for big power.
The ´Carolyn Solution´  is júst the thing for the 1ZZ imo.

Imo the TRD kit on the 1ZZ Corolla/Vibe was the optimal thing. It was the same but sized up as the Mk.1 MR2.
Instant extra oompf, limited extra power/stress.
Also nó mods required to the exhaust/intake other than a swap of the intake manifold for the supercharger. A pity it does not fit in our spyder.

Since I have deleted the airco, the option to mount an sc12/14 in that space has been in the back of my mind.
Actually mñeasured it and is should fit but the plumbing....
With the smaller alternator coming up there will be more space. Will measure again!

The photo below is how the sc14 should be mounted (lubrication) looking from above:



For me this is very much a backburner project which I will only go for it I can leave the exhaust system untouched and the OEM filter box ditto.  I would líke to fit the sc where th airco pump was and route áll the plumbing at the firewall side where it is coolest. This also leaves the option open for a small air/air intercooler as per TTE turbo or simpler still a finned alu tube.




On the Mk1 AW11 Toyota fitted an SC12 with intercooler.
The n.a. engine produced 112 - 130 hp depending on market and year whereas the supercharged engine had 145 hp. This increase in output wíth intercooler is a sobering perspective.
Same horizon for the TRD Rootes type kit on the 1ZZ Corolla/Matrix (from 135 to 170 hp) and the TTE Eaton kit for the 2ZZ (from 189 to 215 hp).

Though turbo, the TTE turbo is much of the ´same´ as that is 185 hp whereas a tuned n.a. does 165/170.

Are we expecting perhaps a bit much? 

@Gibla  how do you now see it, in retrospect? And the current owner (not paid attention to where it went, sorry)?


Btw. have read and reread this thread several times and was, am, will stay in ÁWE.

Scratching the itch? 

@Petrus

18+ months on in my ownership, cooling has never really presented any issues. Only two issues reared their heads during that timeframe(both avoidable + neither catastrophic).

I would still heartily recommend you having a go, the Eaton M45 unit off a Mini Cooper S is as cheap as chips and v common. The work that Anon is doing on ECU remapping would certainly tie in nicely with this project(if that proves fruitful).

@MattPerformance may also have some contribution to make here?

Thank you @Gibla.
Not going M45 as that will not fit instead of the airco compressor and as such demands fabrication of the exhaust making the cheap supercharger more expensive 
A flashable ECU would sure simplify things although the Speeduino parallel solution reads as practical too. Mind, at this end it needs be pretty much plug&play.

Anon  Yes, the finned stub just looks nice    Have you seen where the TTE turbo kit has the intercooler? The install manual is on here. If the plumbing is on that side anyway, it is almost too convenient not to incorporate.
The sc14 typically comes with intake/outlet fitted. The only precision fabrications needed are the mount to the engine and possibly a different pulley.  I can have thát done just 1 km. down the road.

@J88TEO Mine is pretty quick as it is (some 160 hp hauling under 900 kg*) and I would aim for very modest gains but I think the supercharger so totally befitting the Mk.3 concept. Also it is thé thing for the mountains. The uphill experience by Carolyn underlines that.

* off topic, but the reduction of rotating engine mass RÉALLY transforms the SMT. This is a biggy    concerning a supercharger.

Anyway, as observed on the backburner even behind a lightweight bonnet/ plastic windscreen, but I think this project thread uttahly übercool.

Quote from: shnazzle on January 24, 2022, 07:33I'll tag a question on to this; would it be easier/possible to fit the same setup to a 1zz car where the engine was the other way around? I.e where the space in the engine bay for the unit would be on the intake side. You'd be able to leave the exhaust side bone stock right?
It may be the cheapest route to 185ish hp in the form of instant torque there is for something like a Yaris or Corolla

There's a factory supercharged 2zz on eBay atm and I was considering this again this week. Problem with the factory setup is the SC sticks forward far too much, you'd have to remove the engine bay bulkhead and most of the storage bin space for it to fit. Partly due to the sc position and also the stock intake manifold.

I've considered the best positioning and I believe an M45 would fit where the AC pump sits, pumping upward through a charge cooler and either round 180° to the stock throttle position or better into a custom intake plenum giving way more room for cooler and the correct manifold volume. Then I'd fit the throttle to the sc intake pipework.

Wouldn't require major fabrication if you cut off the stock manifold and ran some silicon connectors onto aluminium pipes to an intake housing. The AMG 63 charge cooler is a perfect size also and could probably be modified, though it's exotic stainless metal so not aluminium but no reason the intake can't be either.

And I'd pump the engine coolant back from a larger radiator through the charge cooler back to the engine rather than plumb a second system in. A big radiator will have plenty capacity and that AMG cooler won't restrict flow.

Hey I have a spare engine (pfl needs new rings), already have a M45 waiting and even fitted a big aftermarket radiator to the car last week, I'm running low on excuses. Maybe I want to keep the AC also... But talk is cheap so I'll shut up now before I talk my way into a corner [emoji6][emoji39]

Cheers
Tyler

Quote from: Gibla on January 24, 2022, 01:13Resurrecting this fascinating thread once more.

5-6 years have elapsed since you 1st did this 1zz sc conversion @Carolyn and as such, some of the details may be rather hazy in the memory.....but...If you were doing this again with the knowledge you acquired during the build, would you do anything differently?

Here I am thinking and asking purely about the mechanical side of things + assuming a suitable donor car was already available. Maybe heat management, amongst other items you may mention?

You have mentioned on another thread that a number of 2zz owners had supercharged their cars. If any of those owners who had the M45 Eaton supercharger installed would care to comment on where they had that work done + their experience of the Eaton M45 longevity, it would be helpful. Are there other superchargers worth contemplating...cost considerations apply here though!

I have been trying largely in vain to see if there is a firm that sells reconditioned Eaton 45 SC, those firms that do exist will refurbish an existing unit, maybe from e-bay, but with massive caveats that means they are unable to offer any worthwhile guarantee.

As you can probably gauge from my comments and questions, I am seriously contemplating getting another 1zz supercharged beastie(in addition to the original)....but of course, this would need to be commissioned via a willing, trustworthy source.

@Gibla I'm sure 2zz owners mostly use a Rotrex SC. Anyway a M45 is too small, need at least an M60 (Merc compressor models) or even an M90 (Lotus, but no room to swap the Lotus setup into a 2 without removing the bulkhead again).

The Rotrex is compact and easier to locate, also not too dissimilar from a turbo and more suited to the 2zz engine character.

I say all this, Toyota made a factory SC 2zz using a bigger roots style compressor, I'm not sure what make or model though. But there's one on eBay at the moment if you have a significant itch [emoji6]

Cheers
Tyler

Quote from: Petrus on May 17, 2022, 00:23Since I have deleted the airco, the option to mount an sc12/14 in that space has been in the back of my mind.
Actually mñeasured it and is should fit but the plumbing....
With the smaller alternator coming up there will be more space. Will measure again!

The photo below is how the sc14 should be mounted (lubrication) looking from above:



For me this is very much a backburner project which I will only go for it I can leave the exhaust system untouched and the OEM filter box ditto.  I would líke to fit the sc where th airco pump was and route áll the plumbing at the firewall side where it is coolest. This also leaves the option open for a small air/air intercooler as per TTE turbo or simpler still a finned alu tube.




On the Mk1 AW11 Toyota fitted an SC12 with intercooler.
The n.a. engine produced 112 - 130 hp depending on market and year whereas the supercharged engine had 145 hp. This increase in output wíth intercooler is a sobering perspective.
Same horizon for the TRD Rootes type kit on the 1ZZ Corolla/Matrix (from 135 to 170 hp) and the TTE Eaton kit for the 2ZZ (from 189 to 215 hp).

Though turbo, the TTE turbo is much of the ´same´ as that is 185 hp whereas a tuned n.a. does 165/170.

Are we expecting perhaps a bit much? 

@Gibla  how do you now see it, in retrospect? And the current owner (not paid attention to where it went, sorry)?


Btw. have read and reread this thread several times and was, am, will stay in ÁWE.

I should have read all the posts first, my thoughts also.

Cheers
Tyler

I'm the only one who HAS put an M45 on a 1ZZ,and make it work.  AND I can say, with certainty - you are all guessing and you are all incorrect in your assumptions.

Quote from: Petrus on May 17, 2022, 12:37Thank you @Gibla.
Not going M45 as that will not fit instead of the airco compressor and as such demands fabrication of the exhaust making the cheap supercharger more expensive 
A flashable ECU would sure simplify things although the Speeduino parallel solution reads as practical too. Mind, at this end it needs be pretty much plug&play.

Anon  Yes, the finned stub just looks nice    Have you seen where the TTE turbo kit has the intercooler? The install manual is on here. If the plumbing is on that side anyway, it is almost too convenient not to incorporate.
The sc14 typically comes with intake/outlet fitted. The only precision fabrications needed are the mount to the engine and possibly a different pulley.  I can have thát done just 1 km. down the road.

@J88TEO Mine is pretty quick as it is (some 160 hp hauling under 900 kg*) and I would aim for very modest gains but I think the supercharger so totally befitting the Mk.3 concept. Also it is thé thing for the mountains. The uphill experience by Carolyn underlines that.

* off topic, but the reduction of rotating engine mass RÉALLY transforms the SMT. This is a biggy    concerning a supercharger.

Anyway, as observed on the backburner even behind a lightweight bonnet/ plastic windscreen, but I think this project thread uttahly übercool.

Ok, again I should have read all the latest posts first, but had a brain dump. So M45 won't fit but SC14 would, interesting. I need to get shopping. I don't suppose you already have a SC14 in possession @Petrus and could show it at the National meet next month?

We might collaborate then.

Cheers
Tyler

Quote from: Carolyn on May 27, 2022, 19:09I'm the only one who HAS put an M45 on a 1ZZ,and make it work.  AND I can say, with certainty - you are all guessing and you are all incorrect in your assumptions.

Sorry @Carolyn nobody is questioning your finished product. And yes they are assumptions and speculations and even dreams... But that drives us forward right?

Also, I'm not averse to chopping out the bulkhead personally, just not interested in an all out 2zz SC conversion. And I've looked for the 1zz/Scion TRD kit before but hard to come by even in the US. So yes toying with ideas and clutching at straws somewhat here...

I also wondered about squeezing in a Rotrex where the AC was, that could fit. But they are too expensive even used to start messing about with such a project. For.me at least.

Cheers
Tyler

Quote from: MrT on May 27, 2022, 19:14@Petrus and could show it at the National meet next month?

We might collaborate then.

Cheers
Tyler

@Carolyn is the hands on expert. She has dóne it. Also she is UK based and I am not 
Afaik two TRD Corolla 1ZZ kits were installed in the US. One with a ´shaved´ supercharger/manifold and no/hardly mods to the firewall. Those had rather moderate hp gains, not as much as the M45 by Carolyn.

As to the Mini/ Mercedes ones, those are Eaton ´twin screw´ type which is more efficient than the SC12/14 Rootes type which Toyota used for the AW11 and the TRD kit for the Corolla. As Carolyn proved, the M45 sweeps enough volume for the 1ZZ.
For the T-Sport Corolla TTE also fitted an Eaton to the 2ZZ.

For me it is a bee in the bonnet as imo it is thé thing for the ZZW30 but my personal pet project has developed in a different direction and though it remains at the back of my mind, is unlikely to happen because of the added weight/ rotating engine mass.
Nevertheless, if the install of the diminutive alternator works out will measure again   

Quote from: MrT on May 27, 2022, 19:24Sorry @Carolyn nobody is questioning your finished product. And yes they are assumptions and speculations and even dreams... But that drives us forward right?

Also, I'm not averse to chopping out the bulkhead personally, just not interested in an all out 2zz SC conversion. And I've looked for the 1zz/Scion TRD kit before but hard to come by even in the US. So yes toying with ideas and clutching at straws somewhat here...

I also wondered about squeezing in a Rotrex where the AC was, that could fit. But they are too expensive even used to start messing about with such a project. For.me at least.

Cheers
Tyler

Don't buy a used rotrex especially if its been on a Honda. They're mega bucks but they drive so nicely. Although I think they're better on large capacity engines where the torque helps fill I'm the bottom of the rev range before the rotrex really gets going.

FYI seems the yanks have all the fun...

https://www.spyderchat.com/threads/supercharger-on-passion-pics-p4-done-p6.14198/#post-205568

Cheers
Tyler

@MrT  here a photo of the Rotrex mounted instead of the AC compressor





This can make a véry compact, light and silent install but the things are stúnningly expensive 

Quote from: MrT on May 28, 2022, 00:15FYI seems the yanks have all the fun...

https://www.spyderchat.com/threads/supercharger-on-passion-pics-p4-done-p6.14198/#post-205568

Cheers
Tyler

Dude just Chuck £3k at the problem and buy the power enterprise Rotrex kit.

I didn't even know there was a zzw30 Rotrex kit out. I thought everyone talked of using a Celica kit which clashed with the bulkhead.

But too rich for me and not what I'm after, definitely more inclined towards the roots blower positive displacement mid range.

Thanks guys

Quote from: MrT on June  5, 2022, 09:03I didn't even know there was a zzw30 Rotrex kit out. I thought everyone talked of using a Celica kit which clashed with the bulkhead.

But too rich for me and not what I'm after, definitely more inclined towards the roots blower positive displacement mid range.

Thanks guys

The Eaton remains the most efficient solution for a power upgrade matching the 1ZZ characteristics and the Carolyn solution is proven to wórk.

The TRD supercharger kit for the 1ZZ would have been an überneat readymade solution for TRD/TTE but it was rather iffy to make it fit. Rather telling that they thought the better of it and TTE Turbo it was.

Thus; Mini Eaton rules.

I'm not too familiar with the TTE kit but I believe BBE/S (?) Motorsport TVS300 something kit was a copy of sorts. Difficult to find and about as expensive as a Rotrex kit if you can find one.

Nice thing was that it had a cast manifold and mounted the SC below in place of the AC which is compact and I believe all fitted behind the zzw30 firewall. I'd love to find or build something similar.

Damn, the Power Enterprise kit mounts behind the engine beside the exhaust manifold anyway, I'm not keen on that unless I were adamant I kept the AC but I can just crack a window or replace my soft top. Plus the SC has inlet and outlet pipes welded on so difficult to repurpose some day. Shame.

https://youtu.be/QzuG1HwJz0I

So my search continues to find or build a BBE type kit including structural manifold with integrated charge cooler.. ambitious no doubt 

@MrT contact @MattPerformance by pm, he may have something to interest you

Very far out in the left field is a G60 G-Lader. Those are available refurbished for none too outrageous money. It is lightweight and compact enough to fit where the AC sits. It would not need a charger cooler although you could fit it a la TTE turbo cooler.
The output increase is moderate but instant.
It looks to be the solution needing by far the least modifications, but probably a stillborn because it is all exclusively VAG oriented.
All theorising pipe dreams ;-)

Apart from one little known TRD supercharger mod the Carolyn Eaton is the only extensively documented supercharger install which wórks.

If I had the money this is a potential bargain! Sharing the love 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225014550170

Quote from: MrT on June  5, 2022, 14:03If I had the money

I do but even taken that thus out of the equation, all engine tuning has downsides. Even reducing engine rotating mass has a ´price´.

The ebay one is sub-ideal btw.

On the Rotrex there is quíte a bit on Spyderchat btw.