Horrific 2zz Black MR-S bodge work "track car"

Started by Anon, May 30, 2022, 15:05

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AJRFulton

Looking forward to trying the XP8 pads, bought them ages ago but cars never been out on them.

JB21

I'd like to try XP12 front and XP10 rear, as I still struggle to fire the ABS using XP10 front and XP8 rears when using slicks on a warm day. I'm also using MTEC c-hook discs and RBF660 fluid.

thetyrant

#77

We used to send out stickers with pads but i got sick of nobody putting them on as they promised so havent had anymore made this year and now ive ran out, will get batch done next year though i think :)
Ex-2005 roadster  owner, i will be back :D

Joesson

Quote from: J88TEO on December 15, 2022, 13:23Thanks for the tip!
Just ordered 4.

They did work well when I first used them in the 1960's.
On my next car, having left them on my previous, I tried this:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Automatic-Brake-or-Clutch-Bleed-Tube-PWN189-25-cm-Long-Rubber-Bleeding-Pipe/371718568796?pageci=2f200531-23e5-4bc1-a484-676f0b0e5b1c&epid=19017017159&redirect=mobile

A simple length of rubber tube with an open and stopped end and a razor slit in the tubing to form a one way valve.
Can also be used on other car brakes and the clutch.
Probably requires marginally more brake fluid to use the tube against the bleed nipple valve which can be used without a tube to catch the fluid but does then make a mess.
I lost my original split tube over my many years of company cars, when I had no need of it, but got another tube when I started to service my 2.

Carolyn

#79

Who you callin' old??  Mind you we do have drawers full of Whitworth stuff.
Perry Byrnes Memorial Award 2016, 2018.  Love this club. 
https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=63866.0

Joesson

#80
Quote from: Carolyn on January 15, 2023, 15:24Who you callin' old??  Mind you we do have drawers full of Whitworth stuff.

Can't speak for the older member's on here, having only been around myself since the coming of the Atomic age but the changes in measurement (that of course relate to thread sizes) have been ongoing for some time, and still are:

https://ukma.org.uk/what-is-metric/uk-progress/uk-metric-timeline/

AJRFulton

Quote from: Anon on January 18, 2023, 21:35Well I never, I have learnt something in all this cheek! British Standard Pipe actually is a Whitworth thread, just tailored around the external pipe sizes. Some things live on and on.

You'd love working on some of our systems at my work. British designed nuclear reactor, American boilers, American/British turbines, built around the time we changed to metric.....

Whitworth, Whitworth fine, UNC, UNF, BSP then the usual metric ISO threaded stuff, and sure I've missed a few. Often all found on the same system too.

Borrowing bolts from the store can be a right lottery.

Joesson

Quote from: AJRFulton on January 18, 2023, 23:55You'd love working on some of our systems at my work. British designed nuclear reactor, American boilers, American/British turbines, built around the time we changed to metric.....

Whitworth, Whitworth fine, UNC, UNF, BSP then the usual metric ISO threaded stuff, and sure I've missed a few. Often all found on the same system too.

Borrowing bolts from the store can be a right lottery.

As can selecting the correct spanner/ socket I guess!

JB21

Quote from: Anon on February 10, 2023, 12:07Well, went to Oulton Park for a wonderful dry warmish track day this morning. Track conditions were mint, the best I've ever seen. Was going to be the fastest day I've ever done there.

But I'm back home and its 12 o'clock  :'(

The gearchange was horrible from the get go... came back in, bleed the clutch up, adjusted the pedal.

Went back out, felt slightly better for 2 laps, but still it was reluctant to drop into gear.

Braking into cascades, went for 3rd... horrid whiring noise.... jumped into the runoff lane.

No gears will select, suspected clutch collapsed again or something.

But I'm guessing is really the syncros are buggered in 3rd, thus its crashing into gear hard and thus exploding the clutch disk.

But I'll find out when I take it to bits... it's time I fit that brand new gearbox in it that I've had stashed for this rainy day.

Sounds exactly like what mine is doing, albeit my synchro's seem fine. I've sourced a C64 out of a SC Exige with Quaife diff as a standby replacement. The gearboxs are the only thing letting the MR2 down IMO.They just dont like to be rushed, not bad at all at 7 tenths but at full attack they are a bit meh!

JB21

Quote from: Anon on February 10, 2023, 13:09I think you're at Oulton tomorrow from memory? Good luck and I hope you get more life out of it yet.

I'm feeling pretty gutted right now. But this car hammering game is full of trials and tribs.

My JDM Celica 190... the gearbox started to clunk really hard into 3rd.... that was it's second used gearbox too. My Corolla t-sport the syncro for 2nd totally failed and ground into 2ng gear.

Both cars I sold off spares or repair fully drivable with MOT etc, but stated the gearbox is buggered.

This one in my MRS doesn't have the crunch or the clunk, it just wont drop into gear and its got worse and worse over the last 4 oulton days. It was previously OK for a couple of hours, then went scabby, but today straight out in the morning I knew it wasn't right.

I know the oil is good as I checked it last week, and its clean as f* as its only done about 800 miles since the new clutch went in it. It's that fancy pants redline mt90 in there too. I drained every drip out of it by getting it upside down etc, then flushed it with some spare... it was really clean anyway. The cables are all good as I've disconnected the from the box to check the run freely a few months back.

It was like coming into a corner on the brakes, trying to find 3rd and it just won't have it.... which is really not what you need. If I slow it all right down it'll drop in but reluctantly. Like you're "forcing it in dry"  :))

Had to sell tomorrows day cheap as i wasn't taking the risk it playing up again.

Mine was doing exactly the same as yours jamming coming down the box at high revs on the brake even with a big dollop of rev match. Upshifts were absolutely fine. Once cold it was fine again. I think its either a tooth has snapped on the pressure plate or the disc is cracked.

Joesson

#85
Although I qualify to answer your appeal by virtue of my number of years I cannot help directly with the problem. However those years do mean that I am aware of what are / were non synchronised or crash gear boxes. To drive these double de clutching  is/ was necessary.
My thoughts would be that the standard gear box, when used beyond it's design capacity of loads and revs, will tend to fail and perhaps the synchro function is the weak point.
It is likely that there are ways to strengthen the gear box but at some cost, whereas double de clutching is at no cost and should not affect the gearbox in any way, down side would be the extra time to de clutch twice.
There are How To's on the www, this came up first in the list on my search, other explanations are available:

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/top-gear-advice/top-gears-guide-driving-well-how-double-declutch

PS
Have a look at what Derek Smith, an ex police driving instructor has to say ,  6 posts in to this thread:

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=8&t=713071

JB21

Quote from: Anon on February 10, 2023, 22:38Toyota gearboxes are annoying for so many reasons, one being there is no part number on the casing.

But even if you get a nice gearbox, all it has is sticker like this....




Still no part numbers :( ... the only useful thing is the date code top left.. YEAR/WEEK... thus 21 week of 2004

I scanned that QR code with my wifes Android phone, at the bottom left next to the 026, I found it contained this text:-

F9 
04/21
010103
F5O7P-U 
K76408-5583       
233030015260       
303001E04000       
200504201614

And that line 303001E04000  .... well that is 30300-1E040

Toyota Corolla ZZE123R-DGFGFW 11.2001 - 02.2007 ZZE123..UKP C64
https://toyota-europe.epc-data.com/corolla/zze123r/1807/chassis/3301/30300/

I've got a feeling my current box is actually a C64 instead of a C60 as 6th gear seems very short indeed. Defo feels shorter than the box in my old Celica 190.

JB21

Can you select all gears in yours when using the selector counter weight? Car off and cold obviously.

Mine is jamming into certain gears like this, not sure that's correct?

AJRFulton

Quote from: JB21 on February 11, 2023, 10:33Can you select all gears in yours when using the selector counter weight? Car off and cold obviously.

Mine is jamming into certain gears like this, not sure that's correct?

It's not easy, but mine does go.

I just had a rebuild of the box (although still want to change ratios)

J88TEO


Joesson


JB21

#91
Quote from: Anon on February 13, 2023, 23:26Had the first little session prepping for the gearbox swap, tonight had a good look at the shift lever mechanism. The new gearbox has all new rod and selector jiblets inside, so thought it would be good to use that stuff. The only bits I needed to keep from the faulty box what the shaft itself, the cast front housing, then all the external stuff.



All the old stuff has been cleaned down and wire brushed off to remove scum. But on fitting the pivot linkage bit it turns out the corolla box has not been drilled/tapped for it to bolt on. That is a job for another night as it needs to be pretty accurate and not balls up.



I've decided I'm not going to fit the LSD from the other box, it would be good to compare the difference to see how it drive without one, and I don't want to bugger up this nice new gearbox just yet. This might change my plan with the 2AR-FXE engine and EB60 gearbox because if the non LSD setup is a massive hindrance then I'll have to find one for the 2AR build going forwards.

New shaft mech looks very clean there. What gearbox does the shaft come from for it to work in a C60/C64 is it a C66?

I ask as I'd like to refresh mine as the gates feel sloppy.

JB21


Alex Knight

Great work so far.

I have a C64 Corolla gearbox too.
Yes, the housing needing drilling and tapping, but it's any easy job and took about 15 minutes.

If you do any kind of long drives in this car, fit a 6-speed MR2 6th gear.

You'll never see the rev limiter in 5th on track, so there is literally no point in having a silly short 6th gear.

Fit the LSD now while the box is off.
You'll wish you had down the line if you don't now. Ask me how I know.

JB21

Quote from: Anon on February 14, 2023, 20:46I basically used all the functional parts that sit on the shaft from the new C64 Corolla gearbox, but fitted to the shaft and cast alloy nose part of the MR2 6 speed. Then all the external parts like the linkages are from MR2 6 Speed.

Here is a photo to better illustrate what bits I used.



My mentality was I didn't want to use any worn bits that operate the gates. Everything that could be used new is new. And tried to use new surplus bolts where ever possible for that lovely plated look.

I just prey I can get some good feeling operation when this is done. Gearbox probably will be nicest bit of the car! It was a lucky purchase spotting it on ebay, and I didn't need one at the time, but I knew one day it will come in very useful.


Thanks for the info.

I will look at purchasing all the shaft parts to freshen up the gates.

Is it possible for the external shift mech parts to wear too? I dont see any bushes or anything within the mechanism, but there is quite a bit of movement between the connecting parts.

MWR do a new set but they're expensive.

https://www.monkeywrenchracing.com/product/toyota-oem-shift-mechanism-mr2-spyder-2000-05-manual/

Joesson

Anon said :
no swarf, as in no indication on a magnet?

Alex Knight

Quote from: Anon on February 15, 2023, 23:09Alex, tell me what the difference was without the LSD? Where do you notice it? All weathers?

Lotus Elise always ran without, which I find odd.

This is setting the stall for the 2AR-FXE build, because an LSD for that EB60 I'm going to use is $2000 bucks. Now I was planning on running with the LSD, but if its that bad on a little 2ZZ-FE car without a diff then I'm going to have to dip into the kids university funds to cover it!

The difference was noticeable in that the power delivery was *much* more predictable post-apex after the LSD went in.

Beforehand, sometimes you would get a big gob of oversteer, sometimes you would spin the power away at the inside (unloaded) tyre. It was inconsistent.

I feel that adding the LSD has created a *bit* of low speed understeer, but it's well worth the slight compromise.

Now, I know what I'm getting on corner exit every time, and I can scribe a cleaner line without the inside wheelspin upsetting the balance.

It's actually made the mid-high speed balance a little more loose, which suits my style.

How this helps.

JB21

Quote from: Anon on February 15, 2023, 23:03Throwing caution to the wind, totally knowing what I'm doing right  :)) , I thought it was time to have a go at taking the gearbox apart.






But trying to get some of the 5th and 6th gear components off the end under the end cap section I've hit a stage where I need some better pullers to take it apart any further. So I've left it at this stage for tonight.



I'm thinking that I might put my old LSD into the new gearbox, but I'm very scared as I don't want to bugger up the new gearbox. Thus if I take apart the old one and put it back together OK, I'll call that the training course.


Have a look at this video for changing the diff. Looks very easy the way he does it, especially if you're not changing the FD, its just a drop in.


JB21

Great work, you can do mine now then if my gearbox is kaput  :))

mr2garageswindon

Quote from: Anon on February 21, 2023, 16:33


That's when he knew... He Fluffed up
Not the 1st and won't be the last

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