Full service query

Anonymous · September 14, 2003, 17:57

I have my 20K service coming up and on flicking through the UK manual folder noticed a discrepancy:

Service record leaflet p.3 says "Inspection" against brake fluid
Warranty leaflet p.19 says "Replacement" against brake fluid

s:? :? s:?

My tendency is to go for the warranty leaflet as that does say MR2 Roadster across the table whilst the service record table appears to be for all Toyotas.

What do you guys think? Anyone had the 20K service?

PS I am getting the service for £120 (I supply my own oil). Seems cheap (probably excludes brake fluid s:wink: :wink: s:wink: )

markiii · September 14, 2003, 18:07

it als includes the labou to change the brke fluid, which will probably be another £60 odd.

Anonymous · September 14, 2003, 19:15

I should clarify my above statement.

I am only supplying the engine oil, not the brake fluid.

Anonymous · September 14, 2003, 19:50

i would say so, while your suppling yuor own oil you migth as well upgradd the brake fiuld and hose's and supply them for them to do

Anonymous · September 15, 2003, 09:38

At my 20k service, I was told that it was "recommended" to change the brake fluid, but this wasn't part of the standard 'menu price'.

I ended up supplying my own fluid (always do for oil anyway), and paid for the extra labour (about an hour from memory, but not sure).

As for choice of fluid, plenty has been written here already.

Anonymous · September 15, 2003, 10:01

The documentation I saw does say brake fluid replacement, but the garage (who ticked this box) said actually they 'test' the brake fluid and only change it if they want to - clearly they can charge for changing it anyway.

I'd love to know how they test the brake fluid - a cup of tea says they just look at it, or check the reservoir with a hydrometer - both giving absolutely no idea how much moisture is down by the piston.

As for menu pricing not including this, if the menu pricing is for the Toyota 20k service, and the Toyota ticklist says 'replace brake fliud' - how is that not included ??

Why pay an hours labour (£70+) to change the brake fluid, when you can do it yourself - self bleeding kits are about a tenner, and it is not rocket science.

BTW The ticklist also says replace keyfob battery - they didn't do that either !

GSB · September 15, 2003, 10:04

If I recall correctly the recomended interval for brake fluid changing is time based rather than mileage based. They reccomend changing it every 2 years.

The time based srategy is used as brake fluid tends to degrade more with age rather than use, as it readily absorbs moisture over time (hydroscopic), which dramitically changes it's heat handling characteristics, leading to higher incidence of brake fade as the fluid gets older.

Depending upon how you use the car, that 2 year interval could coincide with the 10,000 mile service, or perhaps the 30,000 mile service. Average users would do around 10,000 miles per year meaning they's have the fluid changed at the 20,000 mile service, but lighter or heavier users may find it comes up at a different time.

mph · September 15, 2003, 11:11

What GSB said. s:)

s:)

Additionally, heat cycling doesn't do it any favours either so if you've boiled the stuff, it'll be more likely to boil again and at a lower temperature than before due to the absorbed water.

Anonymous · September 15, 2003, 12:13

Thanks for all the replies.

As the car is only 18 months old and useage is not that demanding, I reckon I will change it at 2 years.

When I do, I will try and get them to replace the rubber hoses with the Goodridge MR2 SS brake kit and supply the fluid myself. Anyone got the Goodridge kit?

I reckon Castrol's basic DOT4 will be OK unless anyone can recommend Motul 5.1 and where I can get it.

Anonymous · September 15, 2003, 13:11

Motul 600 is not a DOT5.1 fluid, although it's temperature-spec exceeds that of 5.1. Remember that the DOT specs encompass many aspects, not just minimum boiling points. This might help clear things up;

- DOT3 and 4 are both mineral-based specs, with DOT4 having a higher minimum boiling point than DOT3. They are chemically compatible (ie you can change from DOT3 to DOT4 without needing to be paranoid about flushing). They absorb water, over time reducing the boiling point. The stock Toyota fluid in Roadsters is DOT3.

- DOT5.1 is not mineral-based, and has an even higher minimum boiling point. It is NOT chemically compatible, and so DOT3/4 fluids must be fully flushed before refilling with 5.1. It does not absorb water at all, so any moisture entering the system (and it will) will collect at the lowest point, rather than dissolving in.

Technically, Motul 600 is a DOT4 fluid, primarily because it's mineral-based (well, I think it's a purely synthesised equivalent actually), but its boiling point exceeds that of the DOT5.1 spec, and therefore many 5.1-compliant fluids. So, DOT5.1 doesn't automatically imply the best fluids; it's just a specification.

As for where-to-buy Motul; I and others have used Chris Wilson ( e mailto:chris@formula3.freeserve.co.uk">chris@formula3.freeserve.co.uk e ), as it's not readily available through normal retail channels I think.

HTH.

Comer · September 15, 2003, 13:19

So when '2 owners get their brake fluid changed they can pay for Mr T's DOT3 or supply DOT4 by Castrol (or equivalent) without it causing too much hassle with flushing etc??

Would we see any difference in performance from normal road driving by using DOT 4 with the higher boiling point?

Apologies if there is an obvious answer to this but I like to hear from people who have been there, done that and got the t-shirt!!

Anonymous · September 15, 2003, 15:18

Quote from: "Comer"So when '2 owners get their brake fluid changed they can pay for Mr T's DOT3 or supply DOT4 by Castrol (or equivalent) without it causing too much hassle with flushing etc??

Yes (although my preferred choice of non-OEM fluid would be Motul 600). Changing to DOT5.1 would (or rather, 'should') entail flushing etc.

QuoteWould we see any difference in performance from normal road driving by using DOT 4 with the higher boiling point?

It depends on your definition of 'normal, but IMHO, no.

Anonymous · September 15, 2003, 15:42

Thought I'd just chip in with my experience..

I noticed the discrepency in the manuals too about servicing and brake fluid changing, but assumed that the dealer would know exactly what needed doing!

needless to say the brake fluid wasn't changed until I specifically requested it on the 40k service after 2 1/2 years, and it incurred another hour's labour at the usual rate, plus the fluid itself.. don't know what that was, but must have been the normal stuff.

I requested the fluid change because the brakes just didn't feel as sharp as they used to, even a few months after my new warranty discs and pads had bedded in properly.... and after the fluid change they pretty much felt exactly the same!! s:? :? s:?

Tim