Fixing My molten Roadster

[kanujunkie]

Good point, Stu I have your mounts in my living room, when you next pop over or vice a versa Ill hand em back to you.

Thanks,
Philster.

cheers mate, i may pop around on Thursday evening if thats ok.


Ste, i'm going to be drilling all my allen key bolts so that they can be wirelocked on, I can see why Gas uses the allen key bolts but its definatly a weak point, drilling and wirelocking IMHO is the only way to go, its a 100% guaranteed way of them never coming out again

[GSB]

Ste, i'm going to be drilling all my allen key bolts so that they can be wirelocked on, I can see why Gas uses the allen key bolts but its definatly a weak point, drilling and wirelocking IMHO is the only way to go, its a 100% guaranteed way of them never coming out again

Wont stop them coming loose though. Which is 90% of the battle. You need something to stop them coming loose in the first place.

[GSB]

I thought we'd discussed this before ...  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

 m http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8500 m

The best threadlocking device I have ever-ever used, bar none, is the Nordlock... Its better than spring washers, its better than split-pins, nylocs, double bolting... etc..  These are, quite simply, the best...

They woork by untilising a system that means that if the nut wants to undo, due to vibration, thermal cycling etc, then the joint actually has to get tighter to do it... They are brilliant...


See here for more info on how they work...
 m http://www.nordlock.com/default.asp?url=3.16.37 m

Also, I would recommend torquing your bolts down during intitial buliding, and re-torquing them when hot.

[kanujunkie]

Ste, i'm going to be drilling all my allen key bolts so that they can be wirelocked on, I can see why Gas uses the allen key bolts but its definatly a weak point, drilling and wirelocking IMHO is the only way to go, its a 100% guaranteed way of them never coming out again

Wont stop them coming loose though. Which is 90% of the battle. You need something to stop them coming loose in the first place.

sorry Grant, i'm interested as to why would you say that, the whole point of wirelocking is to stop them coming undone in the first place

[GSB]

Ste, i'm going to be drilling all my allen key bolts so that they can be wirelocked on, I can see why Gas uses the allen key bolts but its definatly a weak point, drilling and wirelocking IMHO is the only way to go, its a 100% guaranteed way of them never coming out again

Wont stop them coming loose though. Which is 90% of the battle. You need something to stop them coming loose in the first place.

sorry Grant, i'm interested as to why would you say that, the whole point of wirelocking is to stop them coming undone in the first place

One to many late night call ins for items of power plant that have fallen to bits, and were previously held together with wirelocking...  s:evil: :evil: s:evil:   Wirelocks always leave scope for the fastener to move, even its just a little bit, and that can ruin the integrity of the joint you're trying to keep together.. Thats just my experience in my industry though, I appreciate you're in a slightly more delicate field of engineering than myself, that makes very good and reliable use of wirelocking.

In its place though, we have substituted a number of measures that seom might say were a little more agricultural than wirelocking, but they have a 100% success rate. Other than the use of threadlocking gunk, theres the use of Nordlock washers, and the slightly more permanaent practice of of tourquing a bolt down, and then tack welding it in place. Not something you're likely to see on an aircraft any time soon I know, but my jet engine here wieghs about the same as a fully laden jumbo!

[kanujunkie]

aaaaahhhh, i see what you mean, the type of wirelocking i do does allow up to 30degs of rotation before it locks, i'm hopeing that it will be enough along with high temp thread locker, lock washers and anything else i can think of

[GSB]

aaaaahhhh, i see what you mean, the type of wirelocking i do does allow up to 30degs of rotation before it locks, i'm hopeing that it will be enough along with high temp thread locker, lock washers and anything else i can think of

How about Tab washers? Cheap, effective, and allow a lot less movement than 30 Degrees, which is quite alot...

Put it this way, on a standard M10 thread, 30 degrees of movement is just over 1/10th of a mm gap opened up in the joint... Its not huge, and it may not leak, but it just beacame a potential weak point without ever compromising the wirelock.

[spit]

Tab washers and Allen bolts don't go well together though do they?

I've never liked Allens for anything other than lightly-torqued cover plates or cosmetics (eg mo'bike clutch covers etc). I just don't think they're appropriate for torqued applications with high temp variance.

Be interested to see how you get on with wire-locking Stu.

Just to put this into perspective, I'm 11,000 miles in and the body count is pretty low considering no locking other than a blob of blue:

  s:arrow: :arrow: s:arrow:  Manifold stock nuts (x5) - INTACT
  s:arrow: :arrow: s:arrow:  Manifold-T allen bolt and 13mm nut (x4) - INTACT but 1 finger-loose, now tightened
  s:arrow: :arrow: s:arrow:  T-DP allen bolts M8x25 (x3) - 2 AWOL (? due to "saddled" hole), now replaced
  s:arrow: :arrow: s:arrow:  T-DP allen bolts M6x20 (x2) - INTACT
  s:arrow: :arrow: s:arrow:  DP-Exhaust Nut and Bolt (x2) - INTACT

[Oil feed T-piece cobbled tap washer (x1) - INTACT-ish  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  ]

Leaks - NONE

But of course this could all change very rapidly and catastrophically  s:oops: :oops: s:oops:

[Tem]

I thought we'd discussed this before ...  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

 m http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8500 m

The best threadlocking device I have ever-ever used, bar none, is the Nordlock... Its better than spring washers, its better than split-pins, nylocs, double bolting... etc..  These are, quite simply, the best...

They woork by untilising a system that means that if the nut wants to undo, due to vibration, thermal cycling etc, then the joint actually has to get tighter to do it... They are brilliant...


See here for more info on how they work...
 m http://www.nordlock.com/default.asp?url=3.16.37 m

Also, I would recommend torquing your bolts down during intitial buliding, and re-torquing them when hot.

While we're at it (again  s8) s8) ), is there a place where you could buy decent amounts of those? Local dealer would've been happy to sell boxes of 1000 and 10,000, depending on the sizes I wanted, but that felt a bit too much for my needs.  s:? :? s:?

[Slacey]

They have sold themselves to me so I am trying to find a supplier now - Grant, do you have any leads?

[GSB]

RS Sell them.   w www.rswww.com w

Not sure if you need an account or not, but they're roughly £10+VAT for a box of 50 for sizes M3, M4, M5, M6, M8 & M10, and then the same sort of cost for a box of 10 in sizes M12, M16 and M20.

What sizes are actually needed? I'll have a dig around in my washer bin and see what I have left over here.

[Tem]

Not sure if you need an account or not, but they're roughly £10+VAT for a box of 50

Thanks, that's more like it.  s8) s8)

What sizes are actually needed? I'll have a dig around in my washer bin and see what I have left over here.

I don't remember.  s:oops: :oops: s:oops:  I was going to try them on the manifold to head nuts, all 5 of them. I do have the MWR ARP studs there, if that makes a difference, but I think they are pretty much the same size. If you have 5, that would be great, but I don't mind buying a box of 50 either..

[aaronjb]

Manifold->Head are M8, IIRC.

[markiii]

so are they reuseable or are they toast once you've removed the nut?

[Slacey]

Manifold->Head are M8, IIRC.

Yep, that's what I need (5 of). If there is enough interest I may buy a box and distribute them to those that want them in return for a small donation to the club.

[Slacey]

so are they reuseable or are they toast once you've removed the nut?

Reuseable - just need to lubricate first apparently (according to the website).

[Slacey]

OK, box of 50 ordered. If anyone wants some then I can send you 5 at a cost of £1.50 delivered - £1 will go to club funds from each order. I will post in private sales shortly to make management easier.

[spit]

Sean (or anyone) - can these be used to good effect at the head of bolts rather than on nuts?

I can't see why not, but you guys will probably know better.

I'm thinking for the M8s that I have holding the T-DP flange together (where the Garrett has blind threaded holes) aswell as the Manifold side.

Another constraint might be the diameter of these things - there isn't much clearance around my flange plate holes, so they might be fouled by the Flange/DP body weld rather than sit flush  s:? :? s:?

[GSB]

Sean (or anyone) - can these be used to good effect at the head of bolts rather than on nuts?

I can't see why not, but you guys will probably know better.

I'm thinking for the M8s that I have holding the T-DP flange together (where the Garrett has blind threaded holes) aswell as the Manifold side.

They're fine for bolt heads too.

[markiii]

just to bring this back on topic

manifold is now back from camcoat, and they've done a very nice job.



Stu and I stripped and cleaned everything in sight yesterday (cheers bud), cleaned teh whole block fitted the krankvents and catchcan, and had a general tidy up.

I've just been to Nissan and bought there gaskets for manifold to turbo and turbo to exhaust as they are much better than teh pressed tinfoil Garrett jobbies (thanks to Aarron for trawling part numbers for me.

for anyone else reading this later

Turbo to Manifold is a rectangular 4 bolt flange, Nissan part number for this on teh S14 200SX is 1441575F10 and comes in at £12.70

Turbo to exhaust (odd shaped 5 bolt affair) Nissan part number for the s14 200SX 1444575F10 cost £16.48

These fit standard GT28 Family Garret Turbos including those on teh Hass and C2 kits

the reason for using these is that they are propper crush gaskets.

Since I'm rebuilding I figured I may as well do it right.

EDIT Pics know added

[philster_d]

good just whistle if you need owt    s:D s:D

[spit]

Great to hear that you're making headway Mark

I've just been to Nissan and bought there gaskets for manifold to turbo and turbo to exhaust as they are much better than the pressed tinfoil Garrett jobbies (thanks to Aarron for trawling part numbers for me.

for anyone else reading this later.....

Dang! 2 days too late  s:cry: :cry: s:cry:  Seem to have got away with re-using the M-T gasket but this is good info for the future - thanks guys.

[aaronjb]

thanks to Aarron for trawling part numbers for me.

No probs Mark - felt like I'd failed as I didn't have them sitting in a box, so I thought the least I could do was find the part numbers for you, to save you battling with unhelpful parts desk people  s;) s;)

[markiii]

next update folks

Post fitting Stus turbo I cleaned everything in teh engine bay as it was covered in oil and shit



I can strongly reccomend a mini steamer and fairy power spray  :-) :-) :-)

having cut down some oversize studs too fit today I refitted the manifold to teh turbo, (with nordlocks) and re bolted everything to teh block.



and as promised here is a pic of teh brace that goes to teh right hand side of teh turbo



a mate called in yesterday who happens to be a welder by profession and I asked his opinion on my broken flexi joint, see pics below





interstingly he commented that teh flexi never appeared to have been welded to it's flange and appeared to have been purely a tight push fit.?

anyone else car to comment? before I pop it over to H&S for comment?

[kanujunkie]

pass comment on the quality of a Superior Hass product, ooohh, i couldn't do that  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

Jay, comment please?!