Just had an engine failure - without precats though!

[Anonymous]

Hey all,

Some of you may remember last August when I bought a black MR2 and the engine was stuffed from "Precat-failure". Luckily then, I managed to get my money back as I only had the car a few days.

After all of that, I bought my Silver mr2 privately which was a perfect example and used the money I'd saved to buy a toyota warranty.

fast forward 6 months and 5000miles to last friday / saturday and I decide to remove my precats. After a day and a halfs work, I finally get the manifold off and inspect the precats. the bottom of the precats were perfect, as new if you like. The top half was much the same, showing only a little degradation. I gutted them, and flushed the manifold, put it all back together with new gaskets, new bolts and a freshly painted heatshield. The perfect job I thought.

I then used the car for about 50 miles until Monday night when I drove to my girlfriends in Prestwick. As soon as I left my street, I heard an odd knocking sound at anything above 2k rpm. I stop to investigate, but as it was dark, I couldn't see much. checked oil level which was on the lower half of OK so i guessed a bolt had just worked loose on the heatshield and that was the source of the rattling.

the next day, I went out to investigate, heatshield all ok, so i decided to start up and see if the noise was still there, which it was. checked oil again and this time, it was off the stick. I borrowed my Girlfriends 106 and went to Hellfrauds and bought a litre of oil, which the car took in no time. checked oil again and still off of the stick. I then went to Tescos and bought 2 litres.... put half of it in and that was enough to bring the level up to halfway. started it up and it was still knocking.

Deicded to take it to Arnold Clark Toyota in Ayr, where I spoke to the service foreman who was a very helpful chap, was actually quite mature (in his 40s as opposed to the usual 16 yr olds)

He listened to the sound and confirmed it as Big end bearing failure. we also noticed it spitting unburnt oil out of the exhaust as it was revved, which he said was caused by oil starvation to the pistons, causing the piston rings to stick to the pistons, offering no seal to the cylinder walls. The foreman advised me not to drive it as i face the risk of a conrod coming through the engine block, so i arranged for the rac to come take the car away to helensburgh toyota to begin the work on the car.

They dont have a courtesy car available till April fools day and my extended warranty only provides me with a hire car for 5 days so I'm now going to be carless for a few days, which is a major PITA! I've been told that it will take about 4 weeks to get a new engine supplied and fitted to my car as well.

On the Plus side, whilst talking to the foreman at Ayr, I asked him about the truth behind that Honest John article claiming a new manifold was available after late 2001.  he showed me a document which he shouldn't have regarding revisions to the 1zz-fe engine. the only revision made was in June 2005 where hardened pistons & rings were fitted and (i cant remember this bit precisely) extra oil flow was encouraged by more holes somewhere around the pistons (sorry I can't quote that correctly).
I asked him for a copy of said document, but was told if he were to do so, he would be "Hung, drawn & Slaughtered"

He also told me that the warranty was definately extended to 120k & 5 years on the 1zz-fe itself, providing a full and correct service history was available, something which was always hearsay last time round!


anyway, this leads me to the conclusion that what happens to the 1zz-fe here is oil begins to pass through the cylinders because the piston rings have stuck, goes out through the exhaust and would cause a degradation of the precat, then causing precat failure.

This is opposed to the other theory of precat getting into the cylinders and causing the oil to pass the cylinders  - either that or both theories are possible and you could get struck by one or the other.

so, anybody have any comments then as to whether the chicken or egg comes first?

Wish me luck,

Richie

[markiii]

we know froma reputabele source that teh 1zz has a resonance issue at around 4000rpm whihch cause the pistons to wear teh bores out of round over time.

however, cases of this causing drastic failure on it's own are rare, normally the precats go befoee the engine which exacerpates teh problem.

once your cats go the whole process gets worse and you go around in ever worsening circles.

We also know that teh precat material isn't the highest quality available, and this doesn't help. Again froma  good source who will have to remain anonymous.

add teh 2 together and it's not good news.

usually removal of teh precats is sufficient to prevent teh issue being engine destroin, I'm afraid your just one of teh really really unlucky ones  s:-( :-( s:-(

[ninjinski]

He also told me that the warranty was definately extended to 120k & 5 years on the 1zz-fe itself, providing a full and correct service history was available, something which was always hearsay last time round!

Jees bad luck mate - u are going through the wars!  s:( s:(  

The quote above interests me, first time Ive heard that, ive never had any literature etc from Toyota to state thats the case  s:?: :?: s:?:    s:?: :?: s:?:

[Anonymous]

He also told me that the warranty was definately extended to 120k & 5 years on the 1zz-fe itself, providing a full and correct service history was available, something which was always hearsay last time round!

If your man is correct, this may be a lot of help to some owners out there!

used the money I'd saved to buy a toyota warranty.

Now that was worth every penny!!

How unlucky have you been??   s:shock: :shock: s:shock:   Remind me never to let you help me choose a car in the future........

Hope it all gets sorted soon and lasts longer than your usual five minutes....  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[ninjinski]

 s:roll: :roll: s:roll:  Just wondering why they sold you an extended warranty if thats the case  s:?: :?: s:?:    s:?: :?: s:?:

[Anonymous]

The quote above interests me, first time Ive heard that, ive never had any literature etc from Toyota to state thats the case

that quote was from the service foreman at toyota Ayr, (dont want to give his name over the forum) He said each case is dealt with individually, but his quote was "If you've been good to toytoa and shown some loyalty, they'll be good to you" e.g. if they have carried out all of your services from new.

Just wondering why they sold you an extended warranty if thats the case  

They sold me an extended warranty back in september, whilst the car was healthy. If thats what you mean?


Also, Ive been told me car will be fitted with the "Revised" engine, so will hopefully be safer.

What gets me though, is that the car didn't seem to use oil until I gutted my precats

[ninjinski]

Hi

What I meant is that if they are offering a 5yr warranty now as standard they did not need to offer you an extended warranty as you were covered anyway  s:?: :?: s:?:

[Anonymous]

What gets me though, is that the car didn't seem to use oil until I gutted my precats

Is it possible that you may have left a little pre-cat debris in the manifold  s:?: :?: s:?:  

Oh and I'm not being rude just curious   s:oops: :oops: s:oops:

[roger]

Is it possible that you may have left a little pre-cat debris in the manifold  s:?: :?: s:?:  

It's always possible.

I've got to admit when we had our "party" at Mark's I got home and had one of those moments (because mine didn't go quite to plan) wondering if I had done a good job at getting all the debris out. Its been bugging me ever since......but as time passes I'm getting more relaxed.

I certainly feel I could have done a better job at the inspection stage   s:oops: :oops: s:oops:

[Anonymous]

Hi

What I meant is that if they are offering a 5yr warranty now as standard they did not need to offer you an extended warranty as you were covered anyway

the 5 year "warranty" applies only to the engine.

 I wanted and bought the full on warranty to cover me for the likelyhood of any other failures, for instance my gearbox bearings which failed for the cost of £450 last november.

What gets me though, is that the car didn't seem to use oil until I gutted my precats

Is it possible that you may have left a little pre-cat debris in the manifold  s:?: :?: s:?:  

Oh and I'm not being rude just curious   s:oops: :oops: s:oops:

Dont worry about it mate.

I blasted each of the chambers with high pressure washer after gutting them to make sure they were clear. Also, the bottom of the precats were in perfect order, showing no signs of degradation whatsoever so its unlikely that any bits were floating about the main cat.

Cheers,

Richie.

[Anonymous]

I've got to admit when we had our "party" at Mark's I got home and had one of those moments (because mine didn't go quite to plan) wondering if I had done a good job at getting all the debris out. Its been bugging me ever since......but as time passes I'm getting more relaxed.

I certainly feel I could have done a better job at the inspection stage   s:oops: :oops: s:oops:

Roger,
When I check my oil I always put the dipstick back, close the bonnet, then have one of those moments so I go back open the bonnet and check that I've fully pushed back the dipstick. I do this everytime and everytime it's always back correctly. But I cannot rest until I've checked it.
It all stems back to my first company car when the dealer forgot to replace the oil cap correctly and I ended up with a drive covered in oil  s:evil: :evil: s:evil:

[Anonymous]

 s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:    s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:    s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:  

If anybody has seen the toyota booklet "Extending your Warranty" with the blue Yaris on the front cover, it gives you an outline of all the warranty details. In it, it says that "If you're car has been off the road for 24 hours, we will provide you with a courtesy car for upto 5 days"

I have been trying to arrange this "Car" since yesterday after being advised by my dealer that I organise it through the RAC, only to be told by 1) The RAC, 2) club Toyota, 3)  the Warranty people that the car is only for 48 hours as an emergency get-you-home

Finally today, I got through to the correct people who deal with it (dont know who they are now as been redirected too many times!) to be told that I won't be given a cover car until my dealership has stripped the engine and has launched a claim with them. I told them that their contract states 24 hours, and he said "sorry I dont have the authority to organise it for you until the engine has been stripped"

I have tried phoning my dealership and have left a message for the service manager to phone me back.s

so now, I cant get a cover car and dont know where to go with this. I feel I have been mis-sold the policy as it states I will be provided with a car within 24 hours, even though there is no way they can / will realistically achieve this.


ARGHHHHHHHH

[Anonymous]

hmmm,  I thought that Mr T would have gone down the road of invalidating the extended warranty as you were  the one took the thing to bits and removed the precats and then boom!.  Did you play the "What pre-cats" card?

[Anonymous]

Have you not invalidated the warranty by gutting the pre-cats?

[Anonymous]

I haven't mentioned said pre-cats and nor have they. at the end of the day, whats a pre-cat  s:?: :?: s:?:  

besides, I could always quote them and say that "things from the exhaust don't go into the engine"

[SimonC_Here]

:twisted:   s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:    s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:  

If anybody has seen the toyota booklet "Extending your Warranty" with the blue Yaris on the front cover, it gives you an outline of all the warranty details. In it, it says that "If you're car has been off the road for 24 hours, we will provide you with a courtesy car for upto 5 days"

I have been trying to arrange this "Car" since yesterday after being advised by my dealer that I organise it through the RAC, only to be told by 1) The RAC, 2) club Toyota, 3)  the Warranty people that the car is only for 48 hours as an emergency get-you-home

Finally today, I got through to the correct people who deal with it (dont know who they are now as been redirected too many times!) to be told that I won't be given a cover car until my dealership has stripped the engine and has launched a claim with them. I told them that their contract states 24 hours, and he said "sorry I dont have the authority to organise it for you until the engine has been stripped"

I have tried phoning my dealership and have left a message for the service manager to phone me back.s

so now, I cant get a cover car and dont know where to go with this. I feel I have been mis-sold the policy as it states I will be provided with a car within 24 hours, even though there is no way they can / will realistically achieve this.


ARGHHHHHHHH

This is exactly what happened to me when my engine went. Getting the car was closer to getting blood from a stone than easy warranty work.

As it turned out, I finally got the courtesy car, and then my car was fixed within 4 days so I had to give it back. This was after weeks of back and forth to the call centres and 2 different engineers coming to peer at my oval engine cylinders before the work was agreed to.

Ah well.

Simon

[Anonymous]

:twisted:   s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:    s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:  

If anybody has seen the toyota booklet "Extending your Warranty" with the blue Yaris on the front cover, it gives you an outline of all the warranty details. In it, it says that "If you're car has been off the road for 24 hours, we will provide you with a courtesy car for upto 5 days"

I have been trying to arrange this "Car" since yesterday after being advised by my dealer that I organise it through the RAC, only to be told by 1) The RAC, 2) club Toyota, 3)  the Warranty people that the car is only for 48 hours as an emergency get-you-home

Finally today, I got through to the correct people who deal with it (dont know who they are now as been redirected too many times!) to be told that I won't be given a cover car until my dealership has stripped the engine and has launched a claim with them. I told them that their contract states 24 hours, and he said "sorry I dont have the authority to organise it for you until the engine has been stripped"

I have tried phoning my dealership and have left a message for the service manager to phone me back.s

so now, I cant get a cover car and dont know where to go with this. I feel I have been mis-sold the policy as it states I will be provided with a car within 24 hours, even though there is no way they can / will realistically achieve this.


ARGHHHHHHHH

This is exactly what happened to me when my engine went. Getting the car was closer to getting blood from a stone than easy warranty work.

As it turned out, I finally got the courtesy car, and then my car was fixed within 4 days so I had to give it back. This was after weeks of back and forth to the call centres and 2 different engineers coming to peer at my oval engine cylinders before the work was agreed to.

Ah well.

Simon

Oh... goody -lol

Thanks for that though mate.

[darrenjuggins]

Hi Richie,

Sorry to hear about your unfortunate luck on your second 2.

That extended Warranty is worth it's weight in Gold in my opinion.

I've just checked my warranty about the car and it states:

"If your vehicle is in the workshop being repaired following a mechanical or electrical breakdown warranted under this warranty and cannot be driven, you can receive vehicle hire for up to 5 days (after an inital 24 hour period, which is not warranted) at up to £45 per day inclusive of VAT.  You will be required to produce an original receipt and an original rental agreement from a rental company".

So you could hire and then claim back.

As for the information regarding, what caused the problem, I think Markiii is correct in stating that some people, like myself have suffered from the wear problem, which has then lead to excessive oil use and finally, cat destruction and others have suffered, the cat failure first.

Glad your getting it all sorted out and I hope you get a car sorted soon.

Cheers

Darren J

[Anonymous]

"If your vehicle is in the workshop being repaired"

Until they start stripping it down it's not being repaired, that's what they're using to wriggle out of providing a car.

[Anonymous]

cheers guys,

I forgot to add that when I last spoke to the service manager at Helensburgh toyota, he told me that my car isnt being repaired under my purchased extended warranty, but is being repaired by toyotas extended warranty thingy. This is the reason why when I phoned the warranty company they said helensburgh toyota hadn't got in touch with them about a claim yet and hence couldn't provide me with the 5 day car cover.

Hopefully this offers some reassurance to those who are currently suffering engine failures within the 5yr old age limit.

As for the courtesy car, I had a major rant at the service manager and he has said that he will try and sort something out for me. unfortunately all 8 of their courtesy cars are out at the moment but he has told me to phone back tomorrow to see if he can do some shuffling.

In any case, the RAC will provide me with a car for upto 48 hours, but thats not a great deal of help at the moment.

Richie.

[Anonymous]

Update:

1. Collected an AYGO(f**Kyersel) on Monday night as a courtesy car until such a time as my car is repaired.

2. Managed to get a hold of a new astra for 48 hours last week, thanks to the RAC (through my extended warranty) - big help!

3. My car is still sitting at the dealership untouched. When I queried this, I was told it is because toyota haven't given authorisation yet.  When I asked why, I was told "Toyota have refused your claim on the basis that my car is now over 5 years old" I pointed out to him that my car only became 5 years old on 31/3/06 and my engine failed 2 weeks ago. He acknowledged this and said that it won't be a problem, toyota will still get it sorted however they just have to fight my case with them.

4. If toyota do refuse to cover my car (which shouldn't be the case) then my extended warranty should cover it (No reason why not!)

5. The service manager assured me that all the bits neccesary were available and reserved for them to do the job, with the exception of one part which he has put on back order. He said my car will be given a new short block.

6. I asked him how many cars he has done with the same failure. he said this is the third this year.  Helensburgh is a small town - Perhaps they are making a habit of overfilling peoples engines with oil  s;) s;)

Richie

[darrenjuggins]

Hi Richie,

Sounds like progress, although slow.

Sounds like you will get the same treatment as me, New short Block.  I would enquire about a new manifold and Main Cat as the oil loss may have cause damage to the main cat, (seeing there is no precats to adsorb the oil).

It took a while for authorisation for mine, but I think Toyota paid for the engine parts and Warranty (extended) paid for the manifold and main cat.

Funny thing was I then had to pay for the aux belt which was worn an the spark plugs !! tee, hee !! anyway a bill of £50 for about £6,000 worth of work (toyota prices) was fine by me.

Hope you get it sorted soon Richie.

Cheers

Darren J

[aaronjb]

as the oil loss may have cause damage to the main cat

Oil will kill a CAT just as fast (probably faster) than leaded petrol - so definitely push for that to be repalced as well. Even if it isn't clogged and causing (engine killing) backpressure, it'd almost certainly fail come MOT time..

[Anonymous]

Thanks for that guys, I never really thought about the main cat, perhaps the oil  has caused my precats to completely disappear too? LOL,

I guess I will go speak to them about that too then (Once they tell me my claim is approved)

Richie.

[Anonymous]

just spoken to the dealership for an update

1) The service manager spoke to the guy in charge of authorising the repairs and he has now "Okay'd" the repair. The problem is the short blocks have gone into backorder and they don't know when there will be one available.

2) I asked him if they have disconnected my battery as my alarm / immobiliser would be draining it, causing a detrimental effect. He said they have left it connected and it won't have a detrimental effect.

3) I asked him about the damage to my catalytic convertor, to which he replied that this won't be the case. I said I'll believe him when he has finished the job and run it through an emissions test for me, to which he agreed.

So, it seems I have a little progress now.

Richie.