Philster_d - powered by gas

[GSB]

Did you set the gaps correctly on your new spark plugs? I Once had an Escort RS Turbo, that could, when on full boost, quite literally blow the sparks out from the plugs. Huge misfire was the result...

[markiii]

well the plugs were gapped to 0.8mm

I checked, however, as to wether thast teh correct gap, I'm unsure, I just did as Phil asked.

Does anyone know differently?

Sean whats the gap for teh HAss supposed to be as you did mine?

[Anonymous]

Gap for the Hass is definately 0.032", which is indeed 0.8mm.

[markiii]

I suppose we could always reduce teh gaps and see if that helps?

Just for teh record, when it drives well, it's very very smooth, nice job Gas

[spit]

I;m not convinced an air leak would cause a misfire cel

sure it would run lean or bog, but ignition should be ok?

Ste, did you get anything liek this with your 02 issue?

I can't read CELs Mark, but before I rectified the O2 issue an ECU reset would sort out all of the bogging, melting, leaning and riching....and Phil seems to be the same.

My problem was that the ECU was learning from duff data so the bogging was progressively worsening with each drive out. Open loop and onto the EManage map was fine though - the problem reared its head in slow pootling, idling and traffic. Given your comment above Mark, this seems spookily similar.

I've just seen that Phil's O2 placement is the same so it could be a explanation. If this is the source, I suggest it gets fixed promptly with a 2-into-1 fix (with the bonus that you can get rid of your duff O2 Phil  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  ) or carry a 10mm spanner and disconnect the battery frequently - my EGTs went ballistic until it was sorted.

[markiii]

thanks Ste,

Might be worth my mentioning that my pocketlogger can also monitor the 02 sensor voltage output.

sitting with the car staionary but the cel light flashing we were seeing some wildy varying output voltages from both primary 02 sensors

they would get very close and then diverge again, very close and diverge again.

and repeat

seeing as how the 02s are next to each other that surprised me a lot.
add that to your comments and I'm tending to agree.

Can you post details of how you fixed it Ste, I'm assuming common connect teh signal wires and put a resistor in one of teh heater circuits?

[philster_d]

2 into one it is then, I guess.

I can leave the duff one in as a bung, ready for my wideband o2 that I havent got yet but need.

Philster.

Oh yeah and I was going to put an EGT  ?

[spit]

Mark - just emailed you a document I produced for Alberto. Let me know it arrives OK.

Alberto had the same issue but to a much lesser extent - moving 2-1 removed his 3k stumble.

If Phil's O2s are as widely mis-matched as your readings suggest, its worth a punt.

Yes, you just bridge the signal wires. Ground too but not entirely necessary as they're common at the ECU harness anyway.

If you don;t have a 15ohm or a bung handy, then just leave the redundant O2 in situ and use its own heater circuit.

Ste

[Anonymous]

Ste also suggested that as a solution to my problem: However, being the lazy git I am I never got round to trying it, and instead a re-map cured mine...  s:? :? s:?


This still leaves the problem of the mis-fires though...

[spit]

The misfires could be a side-effect of the ECU cranking one bank full rich and the other fulll lean.

Hass O2 placement is less likely to yield this problem, and even then its only exacerbated if the O2s are switching voltage at daftly different AFRs. Alberto's boggin was minor, so I suspect his O2s were better behaved than mine and Phil's.

[philster_d]

It does seem to show up in pootling.

Can I get that doc again plz ty

[markiii]

got it cheers ste

it makes sense but based on that I wonder how the Hass arrangement works at all?

Phil,

I'll see if I can find teh ecu pins that make this safer than doing in teh engine bay

[spit]

Mark you have PM. Ian's explanation of pin idents was bob-on - I bridged O2 signals at the harness as part of the wideband install, but reverted back as it wasn't as stable as the stocker O2  s:? :? s:?

[markiii]

just had another thought, Gas switched the snesors around as the 3rd o2 cable didn't need to be long anyomre and the one on teh right hand side of teh engine lokm did.

wonder if the primary o2s are better matched from tehfactory and that contributes?

could different lengths of cable to teh 2 primaries cause an imbalance?

[spit]

Interesting theory Mark, but its only a voltage-related signal and the grounds are common .... so I doubt it. But I aint an electrical whizz like you  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

(and come to think of it, folk have replaced with generic O2s with variable wire-length without incident)

Widebands are a more sensitive to the choice of ground, but I think that's 'cos they work on a current principle and other electronics within the car can influence the readings .... or I may be talking tosh.

[philster_d]

The plus side of doing it engine bay side will be to reroute the cables around the back maybe, away from some of the worst heat?

I dont have a socket or resistor but since we have some other electrical work yet to complete it makes sense to leave it until then anyway.

Philster.

[Anonymous]

just had another thought, Gas switched the snesors around as the 3rd o2 cable didn't need to be long anyomre and the one on the right hand side of the engine lokm did.

wonder if the primary o2s are better matched from tehfactory and that contributes?

could different lengths of cable to the 2 primaries cause an imbalance?

Again, I might be talking bollox but I doubt cable length will cause an imbalance as when I chatted to Ste (Spit) the std O2s act like an on/off switch and cable length is only likely to have a minor effect on the reading that, in the scheme of the level of change we're talking about, will be negligible. I think the fact that 1 O2 is in effect blocking the other O2 in the exhaust stream is the overiding factor

[markiii]

probably right ref cable length, but C2 o2 placement sists side by side so they don't block each other

[spit]

..... irrespective of whether they "block" each other or not, the more crucial issue is that they are reading a 2-bank mix while the ECU is interpreting that as separate signals and trimming each bank accordingly..... so the ECU is effectively acting on duff info  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:

[markiii]

agreed

my personal preference has always been an 02 per cylinder in an equal length manifold

mucho money to do right though and you'd need something like a top end Motec ECU to support it.

[spit]

my personal preference has always been an 02 per cylinder in an equal length manifold

I miss the days of points, carbs, dizzy caps and timing marks.

This new-fangled stuff is all very well for you youngsters......  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

....mumbles off into the distance like a sad old f*rt.....

[philster_d]

OK

Car was mapped and tuned today at Thor.

Total power was 220 bhp and we went up to about 11.9 ish psi.

Thanks a lot to Mark for accompanying me and technical backup.

See you guys soon for a look see.

Philster.

[markiii]

not forgetting that was at the wheels

[spit]

Nice one Phil - you drive carefully now y'hear?

[loadswine]

That's some serious poke there Phil. Hope it keeps on giving fun with no gremlins!  s:) s:)