Yokohama Advan Neova vs Bridgestone RE040, comments please.

ChrisGB · May 21, 2006, 19:51

Hi to All

I did not hijack the other tyre thread here as my take on tyre choice is slightly different and quite specific. I am replacing Bridgestone RE040s that are pretty well worn, but as I have only had the car the last 1000 miles, I dont know what they were like when new. My reasoning so far:

The Bridgestones seem to offer very direct response to steering and once warm, offer quite a bit of grip in the dry. Warm up is not too bad for road use, but there is an appreciable time from cold where they do feel a bit vague, particularly at the front. A bit of enthusiastic brake use seems to get them working well thereafter, so I could live with another set of these in the dry. Where I really dont like them is in the wet. There is a remoteness and lack of feedback that makes it near impossible to drive them hard in the wet. Front end grip appears to be there, but it is just so numb through the steering that you cant tell what is going on. Same at the rear, lean on them and it seems OK, but there is just no feel of how much grip you have left. Trying it on a large empty damp roundabout gave me the second most quickly built up snap oversteer I have ever experinced.

The Yokohama Advan Neova LTS I have never driven on. They seem to be an excellent tyre judging by the comments here, however, one sometimes reads here that the Bridgestone is a better road tyre. I am also aware that the Yoko Advans have a stiff sidewall, possibly more so than the Bridgestones. I like to enjoy bumpy B road thrashes and worry that the extra stiffness of the Yokos may set off the scuttle shake more than the Bridgestones.

The car is at the moment standard, although a stiffner pate is on the drawing board. I would prefer the Yokos as the Bridgestones are truly not to my taste in the wet. Are they going to ride much harsher? Also, how do they work on the broken and bumpy sufaces of our great B road network?

Any other comment of advice greatly received.

Chris

markiii · May 21, 2006, 21:06

no harsher and they make a great road tyre

ChrisGB · May 21, 2006, 22:06

Quote from: "markiii"no harsher and they make a great road tyre

Hi

Would you know why a few folks rate the Bridgestone as a better road tyre? For me, wear and cost are unimportant as it is a fun car, however, really intrusive tyre noise would be as it gets used for long day / weekend trips.

Chris

markiii · May 21, 2006, 23:09

Neovas are available in vey limited sizes

we just get lucky that the elise sizes fit teh 03 wheels

ChrisGB · May 22, 2006, 01:10

Hi

Looks like the Neovas are going to be the way forward. I really like the accurate "one shot" turn in of the 040s. Do the Neovas retain this super fast accurate turn in?

Lastly, who does the best deal on a set of four?

Chris

Anonymous · May 22, 2006, 03:33

You asked this on your last thread and you were informed:-

These:

m http://www.eliseparts.com/shop/index.ph ... cts_id=228 m

I've looked and they do seem to be the only place to get them.

juansolo · May 22, 2006, 07:09

Clicky, I got mine from Jonny at BookaTrack. You do need to run them at lower tyre pressures than Bridgestones also.

Anonymous · May 22, 2006, 07:44

About the same price - think you may have to go to a track session to get them from those guys tho...

mrsmr2 · May 22, 2006, 09:11

Will be glad to hear your comments after you have the Neovas. They will probably be my next tyre once the T1-Rs have gone.

FWIW I think the whole car can suffer from front end vagueness when it's a) greasy or b) slightly damp. I've noticed this with both my RE040s and T1-Rs.

Oddly, both tyres feel much better in heavy rain. Admittedly, I'm travelling slower but the car feels absolutely planted.

mrsmr2 · May 22, 2006, 09:13

Quote from: "juansolo"Clicky, I got mine from Jonny at BookaTrack. You do need to run them at lower tyre pressures than Bridgestones also.

You mention that the RE040s are a better road tyre. Why?

ChrisGB · May 22, 2006, 10:09

Quote from: "juansolo"Clicky, I got mine from Jonny at BookaTrack. You do need to run them at lower tyre pressures than Bridgestones also.

Hi

I noticed that in another thread you reckoned that for road use only (which these will be) you say the Bridgestones would be better. Just wondering why you said this?

Chris

ChrisGB · May 22, 2006, 17:56

Quote from: "juansolo"Clicky, I got mine from Jonny at BookaTrack. You do need to run them at lower tyre pressures than Bridgestones also.

Hi Also noticed that you got fuel consumption issues with the Neovas as well. The drop you quoted relates to a rolling resistance increase of around 13%.

Jeez I dont know what to do.

Chris

Chris_h · May 22, 2006, 20:00

How about getting a second set of rims, then you can really do some back to back testing and report back s:)

s:)

ChrisGB · May 22, 2006, 23:02

Quote from: "Chris_h"How about getting a second set of rims, then you can really do some back to back testing and report back s:) s:)

In a word TIME. I went for the MR2 for a reliable fun car that I did not want to mess about with. Also, buying two sets of wheels and tyres when I have no intention of doing track days is a bit extravagant even by my standards.

I have narrowed the choices down to two tyres. The Bridgestones are an known quantity, the Yokos completely unknown. Even phoned a friend with an Exige tonight to get an idea, but he runs 048s.

I am really not sure which way to go. The Bridgestones are the obvious choice, I am happy with the dry performance once warm and they seem to hang on well and give a very accurate response to steering inputs. These are properties I dont want to lose. The Bridgestones are IMO pretty poor in the wet, being very vague and lacking any sort of feel or progression.

The Yokos are said to be as responsive, and to give much greater progression wet or dry. These are good benefits to pick up. Against this is possibly a big increase in rolling resistance, some reports that the ride is harsher (and some that it is no different) and comments that the Bridgestone makes for a better road only tyre.

The extra harshness, if a small amount, I could live with. The comment that the Bridgestone makes a better road tyre I need to know why? The Extra rolling resistance could be a deal breaker. The MR2 is the slowest car I own in straight line speed terms and to see over 10% of its pace lost to rolling resistance would be too much of a tradeoff.

Chris

markiii · May 22, 2006, 23:49

personally I don't beleive the re040 is a better road tyre

I feel it far worse

ChrisGB · May 23, 2006, 00:43

Quote from: "markiii"personally I don't beleive the re040 is a better road tyre

I feel it far worse

Hi

Have you noticed any increase in rolling resistance over other tyres tried on the MR2? IE does the car feel a bit slower in acceleration and need more gas to keep a constant speed? Fuel economy affected?

Chris

markiii · May 23, 2006, 08:44

no noticeable difference and I had 215/40/16 F1s on theback prior to this so tehdifferenceshould have been even more pronounced

Anonymous · May 23, 2006, 17:30

The Bridgestones aren't a better road tyre. I've also run the Advans at stock pressures and they still seem miles better than the Bridgestones. Check this out:

Yokohama's aftermarket tyre constructed specifically for the Elise in conjunction with the Lotus ride and handling team and are aimed at the everyday Elise user, offering a better balance between wet and dry performance than the P Zero. These tyres were launched 1st Feb 2001 and should be available through Lotus dealers only, from June 2001. They are asymmetric and directional, and are available in 195/50/15 for the front and 225/45/16 for the rear. They will fit on the standard rims and do not require any geometry changes. Standard cars with 205 tyres will need to fit rear wheel arch spats to stay road legal. Recommended tyre pressures are 1.6 bar front and 1.9 bar rear. They cost £425 a set including VAT, but excluding fit and balance. The fronts retail at £75.50 each plus VAT. The rears retail at £105.35 each plus VAT. There is a picture and more information on the Pistonhead's site. These tyres have very good wet and dry performance. Note: Yokohama is the manufacturer, Advan is the tyre range and Neova is the model. The LTS denotes a Lotus specific tyre constuction and it is essential that tyres with this designation are fitted.

This is basically saying for the elise rear pressure should be 27.5 PSI and front should be 23.2. Bearing in mind the MR2 is heavier by about 250 Kg, I'd say that our stock pressures are probably not far off - maybe drop a psi off the front.

To cut to the chase, buy some Advans and love them! It really is that simple s:D

s:D

ChrisGB · May 23, 2006, 18:39

Hi to All

Many thanks for the input. it looks like the Yokos are the way to go. I am due two new wheels under warranty early next month, so will order a set or Neovas and get them fitted with the new wheels.

The only regret is that I will then have a pair of part worn Bridgestones for the front. They are worn evenly and have plenty of tread left on them. Reckon they are worth selling used?

Chris

Chris_h · May 23, 2006, 19:56

Chris,

As I mentioned previously, there is a market for your used front tyres - I would probably buy them at the right price!!

Chris

ChrisGB · May 23, 2006, 22:34

Quote from: "Chris_h"Chris,

As I mentioned previously, there is a market for your used front tyres - I would probably buy them at the right price!!

Chris

Hi Chris

I will PM you when the time comes.

Chris

juansolo · May 23, 2006, 22:51

Quote from: "mrsmr2"
Quote from: "juansolo"Clicky, I got mine from Jonny at BookaTrack. You do need to run them at lower tyre pressures than Bridgestones also.

You mention that the RE040s are a better road tyre. Why?

Better ultimate wet grip and better ride. I wouldn't pay the extra for Neovas for road use alone. Worth every single penny if you do trackdays though.

ChrisGB · May 25, 2006, 11:26

Hi

Again, thanks for the input above, it is most useful. I am still none the wiser. It is clear that both tyres offer enjoyable performance from the car, but I would like to hear more specific comments on the tyres behaviour and how they compare if possible.

Turn in. How do the two tyres compare?

Slip angle. Does one of the tyre types take on a significantly more sideways attitude when cornering?

Over / Understeer. How do they compare in terms of balance?

Ride quatlity. Do either of the tyres become inclined to hop on road imperfections more?

Braking, wet and dry. How do they compare?

On limit wet and dry. How do they compare?

Anything else that was noticed as differences or positives / negatives about either tyre?

These specific areas of comparison will help me (and others) decide what set of compromises we wish to live with. For example, the 040 has reportedly better outright grip than the Neova in the wet, but is this a big difference or a minor one? Is the behaviour of the Neova sufficiently more progressive in the wet that is would offer easier control in road situations, or is it just on the track that these advantages can be utilised?

Sorry to drag this on, but I only use the car for weekends and evenings, so whatever tyres end up on it, they will be on for a long time so I want to get it right.

All help greatly appreciated.

Chris

juansolo · May 25, 2006, 15:27

Simple really. If you're expecting to be driving sideways choose the Neovas, if you're just pootling around, the Bridgestones.

Niether tyre will magically save you in a sideways moment if you don't know what you're doing. The Neovas are certainly more progressive and more controllable. Though on a test day when I had timing kit on my car there was nothing in it in lap times (the same day and the same conditions). So ultimate grip levels are actually pretty similar. The bridgestones do start to melt after a few laps at this sort of speed, the neovas do not. Therefore they make a perfect track tyre.

They are good on the road, but the stiffer sidewalls do affect the ride noticably. I'm not saying it's not livable with, I am saying that it is noticable. This and that the bridgestones are a little better in the wet make this a better road tyre IMO.

The neova is untouchable as a track tyre for fun and makes a very good road tyre. The Bridgestone is a very good road tyre that's fine for light track use. Your choice boils down to what you use the car for.

Tyre pressures are not so cut and dry. You can alter the way the car handles dramatically by varying the pressures. For example neovas at stock pressures will understeer very badly in the wet, in the dry it's not so pronounced but it's still there. If you want it to turn in and the back to be loose, leave the rear pressures and lower the fronts by quite a lot. This will make the front end turn in better and the backend will be very lively, especially in the wet. The thing to do is to experiment. Personally I favoured the soft front, hard rear approach. But that doesn't suit everyone. Personally I think I was running somewhere between stock and recommended Elise pressures.

I don't really know what else to say other than suck it and see. If you've ran on bridgestones, strap the neovas on. They're both good tyres.

ninjinski · November 13, 2006, 18:14

Just fitted my Neovas (after 4 weeks desperately trying to track down any Yokos in the UK)

First impressions are very good - The car has lost some of the jumpiness that it had on the previous stock Yokos, the tyre feel progressive and definately better in the wet and they look very cool!!

What are the optimum pressures for these tyres on the 2 - I know it subjective but would be keen to hear from those using them what they have felt was best.

Ta! s8)

s8)