Mr T stumped:Engine Management LED won't clear..!

Anonymous · October 2, 2003, 14:30

Hiya,
I have a 'W' 2000 Blue 2 with 22k on the clock.

Since December last year the Engine management LED has been on. I brought this to the attention of Toyota in Feb 03 (before the warranty ran out) to diagnose and fix.

The error codes outputted indicated Random Engine Misfire. In short Toyota (Jemca North London) and Toyota GB took the car for 3 months and claimed to have practically rebuilt the engine to resolve the errors.

Their work included:

Engine overhaul (I 4get the details, have em noted somewhere)
New ECU
New Cat Converter

I picked the car up and within hours the LED had returned.

I rebooked the car in this time for a new Wiring Loom.
Again I picked the car up and within hours the LED had returned.

This was about 3 weeks ago. Toyota are stumped..!

What options do Toyota have left ? New Engine ? New car ?
What should my next move be ?

They are 100% certain the engine is ok.

I must add that during the 3 month period Toyota (Jemca) insisted I arrange my own insurance or settle for their 2.5k excess. My own insurance costed me a couple of hundred pounds in added premiums until they said they would not extend the cover forcing to settle for MrT's ridiculous excess.

Do other Toyota garages have this policy ? Has anybody got a refund for additional premiums ?

Thanks for taking time to read this..

Regards
Ricky

Anonymous · October 2, 2003, 14:37

I am a bit confused...

What does the insurance have to do with anything? As far as I understand, you brought the problem to Toyota's attention before the warranty expired.

Anonymous · October 2, 2003, 14:52

Apologies for not being clear. The insurance was for the courtesy Yaris.

Anonymous · October 2, 2003, 16:45

Ricky

As an Insurance Broker I would not expect ANY Insurer to charge for a courtesy car cover whilst a Client's vehicle is undergoing mechanical repair (it's different if accident damage is involved) The risk whilst you had the Yaris is considerably less than the Roadster, even if the Yaris was a TSport (bet it was a crappy 1litre). If I were you I would ask to speak to the Underwriting Manager and request an explanation of their charges. Your own car was covered by the dealer whilst it was in their custody and control so don't let your Insurer try and con you by saying to you that the Yaris was an extra car on your policy. If you need to, tell them you have sought professional help from a Broker. I am assuming that you deal direct and not through a Broker. If it is a Broker who you are dealing with if you are not happy you can complain to your Insurer. They are the one that you have a contract with.

PM or email me if you need more detailed help.

On the mechanical problem front I haven't got a clue, but I am sure someone will come along soon with some possible solutions.

s:D

s:D s:D

s:D

mph · October 2, 2003, 23:30

Does it sound like it's misfiring? Does the light come on when just idling, or do you have to drive around for it to appear?

GSB · October 2, 2003, 23:31

Wierd,

You say you had the light on for three months, any difficultes with the car during this time? e.g. poor starting, bad idleing, lousy performance, high fuel or oil consumption? I'm assuming not as you would surely not have waited quite so long to report it... (Incedentally I'm pretty sure its a condition of the warranty that you report an engine managment light to your dealer pretty quickly...)

Given that they have changed ECU, loom, Engine (rebuilt) and exhaust, I'd say the only thing left is the instrument panel...

Also could you clairify this situation with your insurance? what's going on there?

Anonymous · October 3, 2003, 09:46

The LED is constantly on from the moment I start the car. At times the LED will flash and at this point the engine slightly misfires.

At first the light would just flash for a few seconds the engine would misfire and then clear.

Initially I brought this to the attention of my Local Toyota Specialist (Pinewood in Streatham) who were actually not main dealers and just ferried the car up to Battersea for diagnosis.

I assume they just cleared the ALARM codes for me a few times because within days the intermittant flashing re-occured and they never actually informed me of any work they had done..

I lost confidence with this middleman arrangement and decided to take the car back to the dealer where I purchased the vehicle.

The rest is as they say: history.

>>Given that they have changed ECU, loom, Engine (rebuilt) and >>exhaust, I'd say the only thing left is the instrument panel...

Isn't the instrument panel just a visual aid ? I mean when they interface with the ECU they do see legitimate errors being generated. This is also fed back to me via the misfiring I notice. So there is definiately a problem.

>>Also could you clairify this situation with your insurance? what's going >>on there?

Jemca North London apparently have a policy whereby they require the recipient of the courtesy car to provide their own insurance cover. Which has to be Fully Comprehensive or you sign some document making you liable for a £2,500 excess on their Policy.

My insurance company who happened to be 'TOYOTA INSURANCE' were charging me something like £36 for 2 days cover (to start with). This was extended and extended until Toyota insurance refused to cover me further leaving me to accept the £2.5k excess being offered by Jemca or be without a courtesy car.

Me like an idiot gave in and accepted a £2.5k excess on a 1.0 litre Yaris. For a couple of months.

THE LATEST: Spoke with Jemca yesterday who informed me the Car is again being referred to the Regional Engineers for assesment. I am awaiting a date for this.

As for the insurance I am in excess of £200 out of pocket. They said if I forward in my receipts their customer service department might re-imburse me half my expenses.

Anonymous · October 3, 2003, 09:50

Quote from: "Rixx"As for the insurance I am in excess of £200 out of pocket. They said if I forward in my receipts their customer service department might re-imburse me half my expenses.

DONT TAKE ANY CRAP FROM THEM! If you need help with how to deal with Toyota UK, try asking Peter Laborne or SteveJ as they have both had dealings with them and may be able to give you some pointers.

mph · October 3, 2003, 11:25

Quote from: "Rixx"The LED is constantly on from the moment I start the car. At times the LED will flash and at this point the engine slightly misfires.

At first the light would just flash for a few seconds the engine would misfire and then clear.

Electronics:
faulty wiring - injector
faulty wiring - coil/plug
faulty wiring - fuel pump
injector
spark plug
ecu

Fueling:
fuel pump
fuel pressure regulator
fuel line
injector

Given it is actually mis-firing, should only take a couple of hours with the data logger, a 'scope and a couple of gauges to locate which of these it is.

Anonymous · October 3, 2003, 12:23

Thanks for that Martin,

I must get Jemca to fax me a copy of all Warranty Work undertaken to ensure which of these components if any have been tested or replaced.

Do you they release this type of info ? Can't imagine why not..

Anonymous · October 3, 2003, 12:37

Quote from: "Roger H"Ricky

If I were you I would ask to speak to the Underwriting Manager and request an explanation of their charges. Your own car was covered by the dealer whilst it was in their custody and control so don't let your Insurer try and con you by saying to you that the Yaris was an extra car on your policy. :D :D

Thats a valid point, am on the phone with them now for an explanation regarding my additional premium charges.

Anonymous · October 3, 2003, 13:10

Toyota Insurance claim that since the work being carried out is Warranty related the Delaer can set the excess rates at their discretion.

On the other hand with works relating to a claim the dealer MUST adhere to guidelines set-out by Toyota Insurance. One of these guidelines states the dealer must provide insurance for courtesy cars.

Anonymous · October 3, 2003, 13:24

I never had to take out extra insurance for a courtesy car.

All policies I had so far said "courtesy car provided if available". To me, this means that if I need a courtesy car, it will be covered automatically.

GSB · October 6, 2003, 10:44

Quote from: "Rixx"Jemca North London apparently have a policy whereby they require the recipient of the courtesy car to provide their own insurance cover. Which has to be Fully Comprehensive or you sign some document making you liable for a £2,500 excess on their Policy.

My insurance company who happened to be 'TOYOTA INSURANCE' were charging me something like £36 for 2 days cover (to start with). This was extended and extended until Toyota insurance refused to cover me further leaving me to accept the £2.5k excess being offered by Jemca or be without a courtesy car.

Me like an idiot gave in and accepted a £2.5k excess on a 1.0 litre Yaris. For a couple of months.

I just dropped my car off at Jemca this morning and drove off in a brand new Yaris T3 Diesel, its covered on my insurance at no cost at all, they didnt even have to contact my insurance company to register the new cars details, (although in the interests of being thorough, they did it anyway). I suppose if they require you to provide your own cover, the cost of that cover is not thier concern. The fact that Toyota's own insurance doesn't cover you automatically is a major pisstake though...