Whats the overall cost for a C2 install

[proeliator2001]

For those that have gone down the C2 install, to get the same package as SP offer with the TTET (ie installation and tune, plug and play), what sort of final cost could be expected?  If it is the same or similar price to the TTET, and ignoring the warranty aspect, which kit gives the best performance?  I've heard C2 runs a good 30+ bhp more than the TTET but is that because it's geared for more power and less torque or is it just stronger through the whole rev range???

[Anonymous]

For fitting and tuning for the C2 kit at Thor, I'd be putting aside an extra £1000 for it. That's what they were asking for a Hass install, and I can't see much of a difference between that and the C2 (barring the obvious difference in quality!).

I've never driven the TTE, but the C2 is right up there in terms of quality. It pulls all the way through the rev range, and feels like a stock turbo unit IMHO.

[spit]

Thats about right for fitting & tuning from Thor and the likes.

Gaspar has also been known to trek around Europe to do C2 installs at competetive rates.

Personally I view the tuning option as just that - an option. IMHO (for what its worth) the stock map setup is very forgiving in terms of a safe range of operation. After 17,000 miles with one eye on the gauges and an ear on the engine, there hasn't been a single occasion for worry.

OK, I've map-tweaked slightly, but this was for reasons of fuel economy rather than alterations to the power part of the map. AFR and EGTs are rock solid even at an 11psi peak.

You may want to invest in tuning further down the line if you get bored of the ridiciulously smooth torque curve  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  It'll be interesting to see what Stu gets before and after remapping.

Downside over TTET - warranty and possibly insurance aside - is (?was) crossing your fingers at MOT, but it looks like that has been nailed with Philster's map.

As for which is "better" between TTET and C2, I've tried both and they're both stonking fun. It really does depend on what floats your boat.

As for which is more powerful and torquey, well.......  no guesses what I'd say after the shock of dyno day  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[kanujunkie]

i'd say £1000 for tuneing and fitting is a bit low personally, i'm willing to bet they charge nearer the £1500 mark. They just quoted me £350+vat for the tune alone so the install will be more than £500.

As for the kit itself, i think its stonking, as well as the kit cost, i'd get it camcoated before fitment to give it a bit more of a durable finish. cost for that will be around the £400 mark, plus also the premade loom for the emanage will be another £150. That will get you on the road. Later you will also need guages and a boost controller which together can come in between £400 and £1000. I can tell you now that this will be an ongoing moneypit, i reckon i've spent around £500 just on odds and sods, like new oil, fittings, tapes, resistors, solder, coolant, pipes, etc etc.

if you want a chat then pm me and i'll send you my number

[proeliator2001]

Apart from the screen price for the C2 kit, I've read that numerous other bits and bobs were needed to get it installed and working correctly.  It's these costs I'm interested in.  At bank rates, the kit costs about £2700.  £1000 for installation leaves just £300 for "other things needed" before it hits TTET prices.  I'm guessing then that C2 is more costly but cheaper for £/bhp.

I didn't see any dyno print outs for a TTET car and C2 car done independantly - anyone got some they could email to me?

[proeliator2001]

Lol, if only I'd waited a couple of minutes before posting   s:roll: :roll: s:roll:  

Cheers Stu.  Your reply is putting me off the C2 kit to be honest.  I'm not one for keeping cars that long and whilst I still absolutely love the look of the '2 and still grin at its handling, the power has always been an issue.  I'm worried that I could spend 5k+ on the C2 to get a proper install and I'll still get bored in a year, which means a massive loss.  The TTET sounds perhaps a better bet.  4K now and then perhaps 1-2k later on for more power if needed.  If I do get bored I loose less I suppose.

182 bhp doesnt sound enough however (though 50% more torque does sound good).  Anyone have any feelings about how much distance a C2 powered car would pull on a TTET round a medium twisty track?

[kanujunkie]

dont worry about the bits that were missing, i now know what there should be and where it goes so i can help you with that prior and if anything is missing then we can contact Gas and get them. As for which is the best kit, well thats adebate i'm not starting, but what i would say is that the C2 kit is more adaptable and can be pushed further than the TTET. The TTET is set at 7psi whereas the C2 can go from 4psi to 12psi on our car. Good imho for winter, summer, track and scareing any friends.

Like Ste and Phil, i've covered a lot of miles now and apart from some minor leaks initially i've had no issues at all. The kit can definatly hold its own.

One other cost to consider is a new clutch, but that would apply to any kit, you may find that your clutch dies sooner than you think on boost

[aaronjb]

Cheers Stu.  Your reply is putting me off the C2 kit to be honest.

One thing to remember is that quite a few of the things Stu just posted aren't included with the TTE either..

Like;

Ceramic coating - the TTE stuff isn't coated, so that's not a cost to make the C2 the same as the TTE, it's to make it better

Same with the guages - you get no guages with the TTE.. If you're happy with that (then I think you're insane  s;) s;) ) then there's no extra spend there, either.

And, as you already realise, the C2 has the potential for a great deal more power - the TTE is a closed box. Buy, fit.. I'd say forget, but it then seems to be 'Return to SP to have all the bolts that keep falling off replaced'  s;) s;)  But if you find you're not happy with the power then you're going to have an expensive road as you'll be buying all the bits you would have got in the C2 kit on top of the TTE price (like an emanage, loom, guages, new exhaust.. etc)

One other thing - fit the C2, and you can sell bits of your old car.. Fit the TTE and it's using your existing exhaust, for one, so you can't recoup any money.

[kanujunkie]

182 bhp doesnt sound enough however (though 50% more torque does sound good).  Anyone have any feelings about how much distance a C2 powered car would pull on a TTET round a medium twisty track?

i'm gonna lay money that the C2 fully setup and running high pressure will paste a TTET to the wall, but untill its been proved thats just my humble opinion.

As for your comment about haveing the TTET and then perhaps pushing it further later, well apart from the basics like new filters, exhaust, and bits, you aint going to get a load more out of it. SP still havn't said if you can remap it, although they are working on it and i dont beleive you can up the wastegate pressure on it, its fixed. The C2 is not an out of the box option, but for the same price as a TTET you can get a more playable option

[spit]

C2 chart from dyno day is kicking about somewhere (the "old" version of the C2!). I think its posted up in my install thread. It was done just shy of 7psi so on the face of it a good comparison to TTET. However, it was running an "untuned" map borrowed from the Philster ("new" C2) install - hence my earlier comments on tuning being an option  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

I can confirm that turning the boost up makes a stonking difference  s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:  If you could do that with the TTET at that price point, I think we'd all have different views.

You're right to consider your circumstances alongside out and out power though. Great though the C2 is - if you're likely to sell the car on shortly, the sensible approach would be either to do nothing or go TTET.

And don't forget that self-install is feasible and can be very rewarding - moreso if you're not particularly mech-minded. I learned as I went & screwed up monumentally along the way, but wouldn't have missed it for anything   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[markiii]

so why don't we do this properly;

TTE Kit cost? £4000

Includes preset boost 7psi
makes power?
makes torque?
guages?   no
boost control?   no and not applicable to this kit
tuneable piggyback? no

Bits you can sell to make money back once fitted?   manifold.


C2 Kit cost is? £2700

Includes preset boost 4-5psi
makes power?
makes torque?
guages? no
boost control?  no but boost is upgradable to higher px's with one (10-12psi)
tuneable piggyback?  yes emanage

Bits you can sell to make money once fitted?   manifold. cat, exhaust, airbox.


Bits you may wish to add?

BOV upgrade on C2 (sard)
Guages (boost £100, egt £200, afr to read wideband £315)
Profec E01 £4-500
Coating £400
Wiring Harness (to save you hacking the loom) £150
clutch - budget for £6-800 fitted

[markiii]

add prices guys and I'll edit my post above to reflect it

[spit]

I can't easily fit to that profile Mark, but here's a bit of a breakdown for the old-style C2 as at dyno day:

@ 7psi (untuned)
power 216.7 HP
torque 187 ft/lb

Kit price £2470
Additional bits'n'bobs £50
Camcoat £320 (manifold to tips - triple-double-single. IC and air pipes)
Boost control £48
Gauges: to taste ! Wideband £250 Greddy warning EGT and Boost £200
Installation: Free (£1.20 for plasters  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  )

Found the dyno chart - bit smudged cos I cried on it when I saw it  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  


The only stock psi dyno I've seen is for Alberto's car. Phil's map is f'ing smooth in comparison, and good to the boost limit of the Garrett - which seems to be about 11psi?

[Ernie Ball]

I wonder if a drive to Hungary for installation isn't the cheapest option of them all.

[kanujunkie]

doubtful, 1600mile drive and accomodation plus install costs.

[Tem]

doubtful, 1600mile drive and accomodation plus install costs.

Depends how you count it.

Just a drive and stay to get it installed = expensive.

Weeks holiday on the road and in a cheap country...  s;) s;)

[markiii]

at this rate I'm going to need to start a fitting service

[ninjinski]

at this rate I'm going to need to start a fitting service

is that including a weeks holiday in a cheap county??   s:D s:D    s:D s:D

[markiii]

I'm good but not that good  :-) :-) :-)

[ninjinski]

I'm good but not that good  :-) :-) :-)

Bummer   s:D s:D    s:D s:D    s:D s:D

[philster_d]

It wasnt that expensive to drive to hungary and your missing the obvious benefit having it installed by a guy who has done dozens of them. Not thor who might spend alot of time scratching their heads and charging you for the privaledge.

[Anonymous]

A few questions here:-

1] Did Gas sort out an install manual/instructions in the end?

2] At the rolling road day when my old PE kit came out on top whilst only running 6psi (I was running 12psi) was there a C2 kitted car in attendance as a direct comparrison?

3] How have the C2 guys found the delivery side?  I've read nightmare stories about Hass delivery delays and monkey wrench wernt exactly speedy!   Initial PE kit wasnt too bad, but the front mount intercooler took a few months to arrive.

I'm considering an MR2 project car for the winter months and I'm a bit out of date on the latest developments regarding FI offerings to be honest   s:oops: :oops: s:oops:

[northernalex]

The pe kit seems to only cost around 2K from evoperformance  maybe worth considering?

[markiii]

A few questions here:-

1] Did Gas sort out an install manual/instructions in the end?

2] At the rolling road day when my old PE kit came out on top whilst only running 6psi (I was running 12psi) was there a C2 kitted car in attendance as a direct comparrison?

3] How have the C2 guys found the delivery side?  I've read nightmare stories about Hass delivery delays and monkey wrench wernt exactly speedy!   Initial PE kit wasnt too bad, but the front mount intercooler took a few months to arrive.

I'm considering an MR2 project car for the winter months and I'm a bit out of date on the latest developments regarding FI offerings to be honest   s:oops: :oops: s:oops:

no C2s ran on teh dayPhil was there but having issues.

thats is too say none of teh new c2 kits, ste ran his old design and was stil beaten by the PE but I swear thats because it was teh only one with a chargecooler.

c2 with chargecooler could be interesting.

And judging by the heat soak I'm getting with teh Hass when running at 8psi (ok I gave in and tried it, yummy  :-) :-) :-) ) one may be in my future as well

[spit]

Jeez was that PE still set at 6psi on D-day?  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  Those chargecoolers must be pretty dman effective - or was it aquamist? I'm confused!

Still, very happy with the C2 curve running on a borrowed map with a CEL  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

re. C2 install manual - I made a start writing one but never finished it  s:oops: :oops: s:oops:  Install is a breeze though and I reckon there's a number of us who could put together some instructions easily enough.

re. Delivery - I received within a week of cleared funds. Worth emailing Gaspar and asking what his current stock status is though.