Any News On UK (H&S) Replacemnt Exhaust Manifold?

Anonymous · October 11, 2003, 18:58

[Mod Moved to Performance related with other H&S Topics - Victor]

Markii & Steve,
What IS the score with the H&S manifold - are they developing anything? I recently emailed them asking about developing a manifold but they just replied that there was only a catback system available. Of course I knew this and actually wanted an answer to the question I asked.

If there's any news let me know - I'm after a 4-2 manifold with 2 O2 bosses as per the TRD but preferably with equal length pipes and presumably at a lower cost than the price we end up paying if importing a TRD.

If any one knows of any other options let me know cos otherwise it'll have to be a TRD.

If there's ever a group buy mooted then count me in.

markiii · October 12, 2003, 18:43

Rusty,

H&S aren't currently doing anything on this front. However when I first discussed the GB with Ian, we talked about a cat replacement pipe, and a manifold.

I'm having the main decat pipe (It's an improvisation not a product yet) fitted when I have the cat back done, so that I can dyno it and see if it's worth the bother on an NA car. If so then we may have something to offer in terms of a main cat replacement pipe.

With regard to the manifold, I haven't arranged anything yet though Ian did quote a fairly reasonable price when we discussed it informally. I have MPH's stock manifold in my garage which I'm going to get them to use as a template rather tan leaving my car with them. But funds to pay for it aren't going to around until the new year. The intention is for equal length runners, 4-2-1 with the 02 sensors in the stock position.

If you can wait til then I'll have some more info, if you can't and want to instigate this for yourself I'll confirm prices with Ian when next I'm down there and I'm sure Martin won't mind me leaving his manifold with them for a while.

Mark.

aaronjb · November 21, 2003, 17:29

Mark,

Are you still planning to look into this? It sounds like something I'll be very interested in (in the new year) too - especially as I just looked up the price of the TRD 4-2-1 manifold on Takakaira's website.. £600+shipping+VAT! I was expecting expensive, but not that expensive s:)

s:)

Cheers,
Aaron

SteveJ · November 21, 2003, 17:43

There is currently no intention to take this project forward - if you want, please feel free to contact H&S directly to dicsuss this further, although I know that H&S have no space in their production schedule to work on this until late February.

Mark & I have other plans for our cars which do not include (for the moment) changing the header - we are going to be investigating what can be achieved with the changes so far when combined with a Dastek UniChip but finances (and my current lack of a car s:(

s:( ) mean this won't happen until well into next year.

markiii · November 21, 2003, 19:44

Well, let me quantify that.

If Millway will give us a deal for a number of unichip installations and if my dyno proves that the cat replacement lost a little bottom end torque which the unichip can fix, I will be doing teh unichip.

If not then I shall be looking at the header with H&S.

However as they have no space until feb for new orders and I won't know which way I'm junping until the new year if you seriosu I'd start the ball rolling with Ian now. Talk to him about cost, performance e.t.c and book yourself in for feb. I'll be happy to help you move this forward if your serious.

My finaces will need until the new year to recover or I'd be looking at this now.

Peter Wright · November 21, 2003, 20:11

Quotewe are going to be investigating what can be achieved with the changes so far when combined with a Dastek UniChip but finances (and my current lack of a car ) mean this won't happen until well into next year.

Have booked in for a Dastek UniChip to be fitted so will have dynos before and after
before being with apexi filter and H&S exhaust
after being with UniChip fitted

Will of course make dynos available if you so require

Pete s:D

s:D

mph · November 21, 2003, 20:18

Not sure if I've read your post correctly or not. Unless dynos are done on the same day (ideally within a few hours of stable temperature), then I'd take them with a pinch of salt as far as trying to compare them. Atmospheric pressure, humidity & temperature all need to be taken into account and can completely mask any changes made to the engine. So unless you're fitting the A'PEXi & H&S & Unichip all in one go, the results, while interesting can't be said to be definitive by any means.

markiii · November 21, 2003, 22:33

not sure if your refering to me or Peter.

however asuming me, the plan is to turn up dyno, put the cat back on and dyno, take the custom cold air intake off and dyno, put the stock plastic back and dyno, but the cat replacement back and dyno, then return to the setup as I started with.

I have a feeling it's going to be silly money to do, but I want to see what if any demostrable gains each bit gives. I'm sure everyone else will be interested to see as well, you lucky lot :-) :-) :-)
(maybe I should start a dyno fund?)

I reckon a second visit will be needed for the unichip, though maybe a stop over night and 2 days friday / Saturday will be the way to go.

aaronjb · November 22, 2003, 18:17

Quote from: "markiii"If Millway will give us a deal for a number of unichip installations and if my dyno proves that the cat replacement lost a little bottom end torque which the unichip can fix, I will be doing teh unichip.

If not then I shall be looking at the header with H&S.

However as they have no space until feb for new orders and I won't know which way I'm junping until the new year if you seriosu I'd start the ball rolling with Ian now. Talk to him about cost, performance e.t.c and book yourself in for feb. I'll be happy to help you move this forward if your serious.

Hmm, I think my finances will need a while to recover too (from buying the car as well as Christmas), so I couldn't start moving things forward WRT the headers until I know I've got the money (well, some money would be a good start!).

Thanks for the info though, it'll be something to consider next year, although a bolt-on (like the TRD) would be easier.

Cheers,
Aaron

markiii · November 22, 2003, 18:23

your right a bolt on would be easier.

but I'd expect to get better gains and a lower price from H&S.

I'll post whenI'm ready to look at this, if you do likewise we can discuss it as a potential order for 2 units and hopefully benefit on the costs.

DAZ400 · November 22, 2003, 20:14

Have you guys considered the GReddy instead of the unichip ? It is very simple to install and has more functions than the unichip and of course it is possable to programme youselves with the Profec or the PC software. I fitted mine myself it was very easy and even done a base mapping on my own I am going to get it tweaked tuned later after I fit the Aquamist WI which should arrive this week. I was origionally going to get a unichip but after comparing capabillites the GReddy is more capable and if you get the profec e to go with it you don't require all these extra guages as the profec can display 3 real time parameters on the display. s:D

s:D

mph · November 22, 2003, 21:13

Quote from: "DAZ400"Have you guys considered the GReddy instead of the unichip ? It is very simple to install and has more functions than the unichip and of course it is possable to programme youselves with the Profec or the PC software. I fitted mine myself it was very easy and even done a base mapping on my own I am going to get it tweaked tuned later after I fit the Aquamist WI which should arrive this week. I was origionally going to get a unichip but after comparing capabillites the GReddy is more capable and if you get the profec e to go with it you don't require all these extra guages as the profec can display 3 real time parameters on the display. s:D s:D

I'm not defending or promoting any chip over another, but I will state you simply can't reliably (nor safely) tune any chip unless you're on a rolling road. So who cares if you've got your own software or not?

For features, I fully admit that an eManage with it's direct control of the injectors has an advantage over the Unichip, but other than that, what other control do you need?

No one needs gauges, and I certainly wouldn't make my engine management purchasing decisions based on such things. The only reason I'm fitting them is due to my track-use where the car is being pushed so much harder than it ever would on the road. Having any other ECU doesn't take the hassle out of fitting the additional sensors (which is most of the hassle) so I'm not sure I get your point.

DAZ400 · November 22, 2003, 22:02

The point I am making is you can save money by being able to fit it yourself and will learn and understand more about the car and engine. There is only one sensor to fit and that is pressure and only used for turboed cars which was extremly easy to fit anyhow. In total there is only 15 wiring changes. Regards guages that is just an example of an extra benifit if the Profec is bought to go with it, for instance I can show boost throtle position RPM duty cycle of injectors air flow and much more all of which can be very useful, plus anything else as it has extra inputs that can be used for anything. If there should be a need at some point to make a change then there is the oppertunity to fiddle if desired by haveing the capability to program rather than having to book the car in to a specialist to make a small change. I am only offering people here the benifit of my recent experience as it might help. s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

DAZ400 · November 22, 2003, 22:12

QuoteI'm not defending or promoting any chip over another, but I will state you simply can't reliably (nor safely) tune any chip unless you're on a rolling road. So who cares if you've got your own software or not?

Regarding the rolling road a number of people I have spoken to actually do the final tweaking on roads as the rolling road can't actually simulate all load conditions.

markiii · November 23, 2003, 00:43

no bias toward one option or the other, but being able to make changes yorself can be a double edge sword.

One of the reasons I went for the sportivo rather than a fully adjustable setp is I know what I would be like. I'd spend more timeplaying with it than I would driving it.

Somethings are better left to those that have teh expertise.

Now finding these people and ones you trust is another matter.

mph · November 23, 2003, 12:16

Quote from: "DAZ400"...as the rolling road can't actually simulate all load conditions.

Really? Can you give me an example?

aaronjb · November 24, 2003, 12:36

Quote from: "markiii"but I'd expect to get better gains and a lower price from H&S.

I'll post whenI'm ready to look at this, if you do likewise we can discuss it as a potential order for 2 units and hopefully benefit on the costs.

This is very true.. Just so long as I've got some holiday left next year to get it made & fitted s:)

s:)

I'll let you know when the bank account has stopped bleeding to death s;)

s;)

Quote from: "mph"
Quote from: "DAZ400"...as the rolling road can't actually simulate all load conditions.
Really? Can you give me an example?

That's something that's been told to me too, on more than one occasion, by a couple of tuners in the UK.. Personally I'm not so sure - especially as the people who said it, to my knowledge, don't have access to a wideband O2 (which is the only way you can reliably tune on the road) other than on the rolling road..

Part of me thinks they might just enjoy razzing customers cars around the roads :S

But then I also know someone who used to tune that way, but stopped after a particularily nasty accident while driving a customers car (bet the customer was pleased!), and has had results that are just as good from tuning on a dyno.

Personally I'd do it on a dyno every time - more controlled conditions for a start, no risk of killing yourself/pedestrians/other road users, and you'll (arguably) get a slightly more conservative tune (ambient air almost certainly hotter and less airflow stuck in a Dyno room than when you're doing 100+ on the track), which means a bigger buffer in case of any slight fuelling glitches/bad batches of fuel etc etc.

Ok, forgot where I was going with this (other than to agree with Martin).

I'll get me coat s:)

s:)

Aaron

markiii · November 24, 2003, 14:18

well I now have a complete exhaust system includign manifold sittingin my garage. so I'm hoping H&S can use that for a basis to make a replacement and avoid me leaving them the car.

fingers crossed anyway.

GSB · November 24, 2003, 14:36

Quote from: "markiii"well I now have a complete exhaust system includign manifold sittingin my garage. so I'm hoping H&S can use that for a basis to make a replacement and avoid me leaving them the car.

fingers crossed anyway.

The problem here is that with only the old pipe to work from, they have to work within the space the original pipe took up, as thats all they have to refer to. If its more efficient to route it some other way, they arent going to know because they dont have the car to work with.

If you're wanting equal length primaries etc, and 4 - 2 - 1 collectors, then without having a car to work on theres no easy way they can tell if its all going to fit or not, and make the most efficient use of the space available. Plus they are going to want to take into consideration access to service items, or parts like engine mounts that may need to be replaced in due course, so that they can design the pipe around those requirements. (For example, it would be a real pain in the arse if they designed a manifold that had to be removed to get access to something like an oil filter.)

If I were you Mark, I'd let them have the car for a week or so, as it guarantees that there will be no nasty surprises when it comes to fitting and that you'll get the best system its possible for them to design. It will be worth it...

markiii · November 24, 2003, 14:48

There you go talking sense again s:roll: :roll: s:roll:

your probably right, I just don't like leaving the car with people, heck I even wait when it's in for a service. Paranoid thats me.

ah well the results should be worth it.

GSB · November 25, 2003, 08:17

Quote from: "markiii"There you go talking sense again s:roll: :roll: s:roll:

your probably right, I just don't like leaving the car with people, heck I even wait when it's in for a service. Paranoid thats me.

ah well the results should be worth it.

Dont worry about it, they're pretty careful, and if its anything like mine it'll spend its entire week out of harms way up on a 2 post lift. And they never leave any customers car outside overnight. Unlike your local Mr T, these guys actually like cars...