what to get with my turbo?

[kanujunkie]

Ste, i had a J-Spec and i put my maps onto Perrys UK spec and installed my WB in, we never had to alter the map at all.

and yet on mine it totally screwed things up and completely bogged the engine down, i dont have the WB in yet so cant say why but it was a definate dislike by the engine

[philster_d]

My pressure sensor (profec) is directly connected to the e-manage by the "extrernal pressure sensor harness"

I have a WB ready for fitting too, I guess at some point when I am finaly happy with the install I will go for a switch to MAP and go for a MAP hehe

Right now im fueling nicely and in no rush to touch the map I have.

[normanh]

I have to confess I dont know much about turbos but I do understand the laws of physics. If you increase the pressure of a gas you most certainly do increase the overall density hence the  volume flow through a pipe will increase proptionaly with the pressure hence the mass will increase. The consequence of this is that the MAF should detect an increased flow, I understand that most work on a change in resistance on a hot wire or even a thermistor. the laws which govern a gases behaviour and laid done in Boyles Law , Charles's Law and the Ideal Gas Equation and a few others, sorry to be so pedantic on this.

I might be wrong but is this not the reason why intercoolers are used to maintain the air at a constant charge temperature. Cold aire being more dense hence more oxygen!

normanh

[Anonymous]

Pass on the whole mass vs density thing, but intercoolers are used to bring intake temps down rather than keep a constant charge temp (which isn't possible really unless you drive in the same place at the same time at the same temperature at the same load at the... You get the idea  s:wink: :wink: s:wink: ).

[normanh]

The lower the temperature the higher the density so the more oxygen which equals better combustion in the engine. Which is why you never heat the inlet air temperature as it reduces the air density. Merlins used superchargers to boost air pressure due to the high alitude flying for this reason , high you go less oxygenboosting it gives you more oxygen in the fuel air mixture, more power output.

normanh

[kanujunkie]

apart from the IC bit you are correct, it is about the oxygen/fuel ratio to aid better combustion, however the process of turbocharging does increase air temperatures due to compression of the air molecules so you pass it through an IC to aid temperature drops but they do not give a set outlet temp, they drop the temp to a lower temp based on the surface area of the radiator/IC. Recently with the higher air temps outside, i recorded temps of 50 to 60 degsC!! so as you can see the temps can still be very high.

[Anonymous]

Sorry about the thread drift.  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

Mrs_turbo, I apologize if I ruffled your feathers. Its just my ignorance coming thru (again)  s:oops: :oops: s:oops:  

Im going to open a new thread because my understanding is not matching up with what Ive just read here.

Theres no doubt but different approaches are being used.
The question is HOW and WHY do they work?

Getting back on topic. Are replacement RRFPR's available as separate items from MWR or PE? I seem to recall someone's failed and they could not get it replaced as a separate item.

Thanks.

Bill

[Anonymous]

Bill the last thing you are is ignorant, you know more about the EM than most and you are always helpful and share your knowledge, i admire the time you put in. Not being turbo'd or even a '2 owner now i mostly sit back and just read but being a turbo'd '2 owner for 3years and no-one to call on for problems like yourself at the time i started,i remember well the setup and different things i tried, but have never really needed to input back in to new users as the PE is only really used now if it is picked up second hand.

Sorry to as i do feel i came over heavy handed after re-reading.  s:oops: :oops: s:oops:  

Right back on topic....

The PE RRFPR is not available or PE wouldn't sell it on it's own when i last enquired when i de-turbo'd 6months ago. I know someone bought a inline 1 but it was a PITA finding an ideal place to cut the fuel pipe to put it in, then he had to go into the fuel tank and remove or drill through the stock FPR. Don't know how he got on he moved away and hasn't been on here since.

[MR-S Turbo]

The PE RRFPR is not available or PE wouldn't sell it on it's own when i last enquired when i de-turbo'd 6months ago. I know someone bought a inline 1 but it was a PITA finding an ideal place to cut the fuel pipe to put it in, then he had to go into the fuel tank and remove or drill through the stock FPR. Don't know how he got on he moved away and hasn't been on here since.

I managed to get the regulator from PE seperate from the kit.

[Anonymous]

The consequence of this is that the MAF should detect an increased flow...

Ohh, so close! But its not "flow" its increased weight. As air cools it shrinks in volume. A cooled mass of air takes up less space but still weighs the same as when it was warm. So the engine draws in the same volume but that volume weighs more.

Wait, isnt that a contradiction?

Yes, but the point I was tring to make is that a MAF sensor detects the molecular weight of the air passing by it regardless of density whereas a VAF merely detects the volume.

[Anonymous]

I've created a monster,.................more importantly one that is beginning to scare me off turbo's.
Holy Buddha guys,I was really looking forward to going turbo and getting that power that the '2 badly needs but it's looking like alot more trouble than its worth.
Accepted now that C2 is the way to go,deffinately best value but stories of parts missing (clips etc.) from other install threads,extra parts needed (turbo bracing from gaspar) not to mention so many abbreviations its like reading an autotrader add for a BMW.
Is it really that difficult??
In time I'm sure I might be looking to get more power out of the turbo kit,and with time I'm sure I'd pick up the necessary knowledge from you guys.
But, right now I'd be happy with a turbo kit that isn't missing parts that I can bolt on (and I'm handy with the spanners so it doesn't have to be an easy install) and not have to worry bout a piston flying through the back of my head when I'm going for a blat down a country road.

The PE option is obviously foolish but the reason I was half thinking of going for it was that I don't want a car thats bossted to the hilt,I'd like to retain as much driveability as possible so thats why I was thinking of a simple kit with lowish boost and a moderate power increase.

The fact that the c2 kit comes with an IC (took me alittle while to figure that abbreviation out at the start) is great for piece of mind as I don't want to fry the engine.
But can anyone honestly say that you could install the basic C2 kit yourself,run it at the preset level of boost and drive on happily without fear that its all going to go pearshape.
As I said,in time I probably will want MORE POWER!!!!!!!!!! but right now I'd like a reliable kit that won't have me watching engine temp every time i put my right foot down.


Q: has anyone gone the Thor kit route???stage 1???has anyone got anything to say against it?price is a little higher I know but it looks pretty inclusive apart from IC if anyone wanted to go without.


Thanks again guys,the wealth of knowledge on here is awe inspiring,and the sense of community (sounds cringey when I read the last bit,but its true) cuts through all the bull you read everywhere else.

[markiii]

The fact that the c2 kit comes with an IC (took me alittle while to figure that abbreviation out at the start) is great for piece of mind as I don't want to fry the engine.
But can anyone honestly say that you could install the basic C2 kit yourself,run it at the preset level of boost and drive on happily without fear that its all going to go pearshape.
As I said,in time I probably will want MORE POWER!!!!!!!!!! but right now I'd like a reliable kit that won't have me watching engine temp every time i put my right foot down.

Stu is doing just that, with no boost control and it drives like a stock car that is just a lot quicker

it really is that good.

ref missing bits it's unlikely you will be missing anything seriosu usually a hoseclip or coupler. If a garage installs it then its something easy enough for them to have already. If DIY post parts of all of teh kit and we can check whatst there for you.

it only gets complex when you try and understand teh ecu programming.

[Anonymous]

its so nice to hear that,you have no idea.
C2 it is so,and no fancy bits (for the moment)
cheers

[kanujunkie]

things to factor in to the cost though

1) Camcoating. This really is a must IMHO, it will keep the kit looking nicer for longer
2)Wireing harness. I cant remember the manufactureur at the mo but you'll need it, plus i have the instructions on how to adapt it for the 02 sensor repositioning due to the 3rd 02 sensor being on the wrong side of the engine bay and the 2 main 02's need to be made into 1 single 02 split to the stock ECU., dont worry its easy.

[spit]

But can anyone honestly say that you could install the basic C2 kit yourself,run it at the preset level of boost and drive on happily without fear that its all going to go pearshape.

Yes. The install is challenging but entirely feasible even if you are new to turbos. It can even be fun!

As Mark hints, its the ECU/EManage stuff that really fries the brain  s:? :? s:?  If I was going again I'd use the plug and play harness for starters. I think this is the link, Stu!

Setup issues can occur, as you'll see in my install thread (and Stu has just mentioned above re. the 2-into-1 O2 sensor fix ... his camcoat rec is also a good 'un).

I'd go further and recommend EGT and Wideband AFR monitoring for extra peace of mind. Without these I would have fried the engine - even off-boost  s:oops: :oops: s:oops:  They are also invaluable when you eventually move to the dark side and add boost control.

Finally, mindful of the mad abbreviation trap that make these threads such a pain to digest, please refer to the Glossary that I put together and post up any additional abbreviations that you'd like to see in there.Link is here

Absolutely finally, go for it!

[kanujunkie]

If I was going again I'd use the plug and play harness for starters. I think this is the link, Stu!

thats the one, to adapt it you'll need a resistor, some heatshrink and to cut and move around 10 wires, doesn't take long. Plus you'll also need something to short out the 3rd O2 socket, i used a fork crimp to do the job

[philster_d]

Cam coating is a nice to have extra not an essential item.

I have had 0 issues with the kit and am running the standard wastegate pressure.

Yes I did need to do the sensof fix which equals cutting and then soldering 2 wires.

Phil

[kanujunkie]

Cam coating is a nice to have extra not an essential item.

your right its not, but it does corrode damn quick without it

[Anonymous]

ok thanks for the glossary link,
I'll have to sit down and make a list of all these extra's so before i do anything.
AFR and EGT are these just a gauge and even if they are reading a figure that shows my engine is about to explode ,how will I know? is there a certain figure that these should not reach and how do I fix it appart from turning the car off and praying i haven't fried it?
......ah don't worry bout it,I'll figure it out as I go along.
is the pnp harness there just so don't you don't have to splice wires between ecu and e-manage?

[Anonymous]

Q: who went to hungary to get the kit installed and how much was the installation???

[spit]

......ah don't worry about it,I'll figure it out as I go along.

That's what I did, and have been doing since  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

Q: who went to hungary to get the kit installed and how much was the installation???

Philster. Treat it as a holiday trip and it'll absorb some of the cost! But just think of all that DIY fun you'll be missing out on  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[philster_d]

Cam coating is a nice to have extra not an essential item.

your right its not, but it does corrode damn quick without it

it does ?   are you talking about Lee's now where he wrapped it without treating it ?

[Anonymous]

philster you say you need to do the sensor fix i.e. soldering the two wires,does this mean the car is running without the fix or are you throwing a CEL or something?

[philster_d]

the two O2 sensors wich independantly control the 2 halfs of the engine (in laymens terms) are now located further down the pipework and more close together.

On the odd occasion one would fight against the other, eg one turns its half leaner, the other one sees leaner and turns itself richer. ad infinitum.

If that happens the car starts to bog down a bit. You can just do a reset by disconnecting the battery.

The longer term fix is to remove one of the sensors and join the 2 signal wires. Now they both see the same  signal and work as a team moving in tandem.

I guess you loose a little of the finess of the original engine when you write it out like that, anyway the e-manage is driving the injectors I think so no worries.

5 minute job, plus add a resistor and you can then simulate the existence of the second sensor. Then you will be able to remove it completely and fit your choice of alternative sensor (for me its going to be wideband O2 feeding info to the e-manage and profec)

Regards,
Philster

[kanujunkie]

as Phil says, its a 5 minute job, however i would suggest that you dont cut the 02 sensor wireing but that you get the e-manage harness and do all the neccesary wireing mods on that. This way if every you come to return the car to stock then its a sinch and also it will give you a spare undamaged sensor. As a by product it also makes the wireing look much neater.