Water Leak!

[kanujunkie]

show us on saturday Leon, far easier

[leon_in_uk]

ok will do, was gonna clean and dry the car out tomora tho.

but oh well see and show you then.  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[kanujunkie]

and bring some tooling for removeing the side vent Leon

[leon_in_uk]

guys finally got round to sorting and drying the carpets today..

i took my seat out! and peeled the carpet back. the front sponge/underlay is very wet so i have taken that out and  its on the radiators now! as for the back the underlay/sponge is stuck the the carpet i have been out drying with hair dryer and squeezing all the water out!!

im gonna leave the carpet up for a while so it frys out properly..

cant believe how much water is in there... i mean loads... bucket loads..

anyhow i went back round my dads and peeled capet so i could see metal and he put loads of water around my car for ages. and no leak!!!! so must of been from the drain holes and must of built up over a very long time...

i advise all of you to check your drain holes now!!!!! its not a nice job cleaning the smelly underlay!  s:x :x s:x  

gonna do the driver side next week to, its not as bad!

thought id let you know..

[normanh]

Not a 100 % sure whats happening but I have not had a water ingress in the passenger door area now for weeks. My carpets have remained dry throughout the rain we have had these last few weeks. The only measure I had taken wayback was to tighten the roof catches slightly, maybe this is the answer? I do hope so, will keep the board posted of any further developments.

normanh

[MR2Black]

I had leak paranoia too. Everytime it was raining id jump in the drivers side and id get drips coming from the seals of the window. The way I tested it was when it was dry was to pour a litre all over the seals of the drivers side window but jump in the passanger side then check for any leaks. It was bone dry. I reckon when its raining the build up of rain gets into the seals when you open the drivers door and drips down as if the seals are dodgy when infact its opening the door when wet the lets the water seep in.

[Gif]

Same problem on the front passenger side noticed after washing the car recently.  Given the low mileage, this looks like a design/assembly flaw rather than an age/usage thing.  There appeared to be water originating from above the level of the fuse box cover which was running down over the cover (collecting around its outer lip which could be mistaken as having originated inside the cover but I don't think it did) and then running down the passenger kick panel onto the sill trim and then into the footwell.

My first guess is the side window to pillar seal, more tests today if possible.

One of the tips for tracing leaks is to dust the whole of the affected area with talcum powder if you have access.  When the water leaks in, it can sometimes form a clear track in the powder so you can get a better idea of where the leak is originating.  Not guaranteed to work though.

[normanh]

Its simple just adjust up the tensions of the roof catches, as thats where the water gets in, theres been a number of threads on this in the past years I know because I have added to them.


normanh

[Gif]

Its simple just adjust up the tensions of the roof catches, as thats where the water gets in, theres been a number of threads on this in the past years I know because I have added to them.
normanh

It doesn't work!  I have now adjusted the catches to the fullest extent and water is still getting in.  So let's take another approach.  



The roof seal has effectively got two water barriers.  The forward seal [marked with the yellow line] meets the front edge of the roof to hopefully stop water getting in.  There is then a second rearward seal [marked with the blue line] to ensure that any water that gets past the first doesn't get any further.

Between the two seal edges, there is a water channel built into the seal which traps any water that does get in and directs it internally within the seal [see the red arrow] down from the roof and discharges it onto the A post and safely out under the door.

The trouble is, if excessive amounts of water get in (either by a faulty / loose roof seal or by car washing) then the build up of water causes it to fill the water channel too quickly.  If this happens, it manages to penetrate a hole in the seal [see green arrow] adjacent to the roof catch mounting plate.

It is this which is causing the water to get between the seal and the screen frame and discharge inside the vehicle behind the dashboard and then into the footwell.  At least it is on my car   s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:  

$64,000 question.  What the hell is that hole for and what will be the effect of sealing it up.  Well, I will soon know cos that's exactly what I am going to do with a bead of silicone sealant.  I can't see a useful purpose for it at present other than to allow my car to leak like a sieve.  If anyone has got any other bright ideas then please let me know.

[Gif]

Update

Whilst reducing the amount of water getting in, it hasn't stopped the leak completely so there must be water penetrating between the seal and the frame in other places.  Not surprising given that it isn't actually sealed to the body with anything other than 6 clips around it's whole length.  

Next stop is removing the side pillars and seal to see what sort of a job Mr T made when attaching the seal.

According to the manual there is supposed to be a butyl sealing tape used at the bottom edge of the seal where it disappears between the door and car.  Checked the driver's side and everything looks ok there.  Passenger side where the leak is will be attacked tomorrow when the sun's out. I suspect that the butyl is not in the right place or is badly fitted or not continuous somewhere along it's length.

[Gif]

Update

Just stripped down the passenger side pillar and sure enough right at the bottom it looks like the butyl seal was badly fitted.  Looked like there was a breach in it just where the dashboard begins.  Sealed it up and hope that this resolves the problem.

Will report back once everything has had chance to dry and then get wet again   s:D s:D    Here's hoping!

PS For those of you who have been spitting blood trying to get the roof hooks off, I have managed to get both the interior pillar trims off and back on without touching the roof hooks.  It's not easy though.

Getting them off is about brute force.  Getting them back on is about modifying with a saw   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:   By trimming the top end of the plastic you can get it back under the roof hook and still leave no visible gaps.  Bit radical but better than training to be lumberjack for three years in order to budge the roof hook bolts.

[MR-S]

Having the exact same problem in the exact same location.
Would you mind taking a few snaps of what you're doing so as I might do the same.
Cheers!

[Gif]

It's back together again now but untested as yet.

Tell you what though, I am just stupid enough to go back out there and take it apart again just to take pics for you.  That's if it works, if it doesn't I won't bother wasting yours and my time   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[GSB]

Ultrasound.... Thats the answer.

What you need is a ultrasound source inside the car, and a ultrasound detector outside. You then use the detector to go around the outside of the car, listening for the leak. Typically, you'll find it in a few minutes. We use one at work to detect passing valves without opening them up.

I have a detector set, but I dont have a source.

 m http://www.manufacturingtalk.com/news/log/log113.html m

[MR-S]

It's back together again now but untested as yet.

Tell you what though, I am just stupid enough to go back out there and take it apart again just to take pics for you.  That's if it works, if it doesn't I won't bother wasting yours and my time   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

Fair enough mate. I might strip back the pillar this weekend if I can get the car into the garage. Lots of rubbish in there which is the whole reason the car is outside at the mo. Guess I'll just have to build a bigger garage.

[Gif]

Update

Seems to have solved the problem as far as I can tell.

The side pillar is uncovered by removing the rubber seal first.  Carefully prise it out of the plastic/metal strip on the pillar.



This reveals 3 small grub screws each inset into a plastic plug to fix the strip in place.  Remove the screws and carefully take off the strip.  You need to make a note of how the seal connects into the strip and also how both intersect at the top and bottom of the windscreen pillar so you can put back neatly.

Once removed, you will be able to ease the rubber strip away from the pillar to see whats going on behind it.

At the bottom of the pillar, the rubber seal is supposed to be sealed to the bodywork using butyl sealant.  There are three strips applied according to the manual (on the inside of this seal approx where the red lines are in the pic) and it was the fact that they didn't overlap properly was my problem.  There was a gap where the upper green arrow indicates. It allows water to seep straight down into the dashboard above the fuse box access door.



If there are any gaps seal them up.  Ideally you can get butyl strip (it's similar to the sticky strip you use to stick bath edging to your tiles or wall) or use flexible gutter sealant or mastic or anything flexible and waterproof.  

Putting it back together is the reverse.  

Hope this helps a few others.

[MR-S]

You da man!

I reckon this write up should be popped into the reference section. There's plenty more than just the pair of us having this issue from what I've seen.

[Anonymous]

Add my '52 MR2 to the list!  s;-) ;-) s;-)    My good lady arrives home last night to advise she had left a jacket in the passenger footwell overnight and it's now soaked... went out to take a look and pulled up the carpet - footwell may as well have been a flood plain!  Checked the driver's side to find it in a similar state although not quite as bad. No recent rain so can only think it's from when I washed it at the weekend   s:scared: :scared: s:scared:  

Thanks to your excellent write-up Gif, guess what I'll be doing this bank holiday weekend!!   s:P s:P    s:P s:P

[kentsmudger]

... went out to take a look and pulled up the carpet - footwell may as well have been a flood plain!  Checked the driver's side to find it in a similar state although not quite as bad. No recent rain so can only think it's from when I washed it at the weekend...

Check the side hood drains first, it's a far more common problem.

...and welcome to the club too!

[Anonymous]

i have just gone through some thing similar!

i picked my mr2 up a week last tuesday and it has rained everyday since!  my footwells were like swimming pools, i checked my gutters first off drivers side wasnt to bad but it was more or less blocked but still let water through,  the passenger side was totally blocked! i cleared it out and got rid of most of the water but the next morning i came to my car (after a night of rain) to find it was like a swimming pool again!

i set about my car to find the leak (i love how easy these cars come apart) after stripping out the seats and bins behind the seats i found a pool of water behind the drivers seat!  the gutter had a slight rip in it from what looks like previous owners taking out and re fitting the bins and hitting the top of the gutter!

i cut up a peice of old innertube and fixed it with rubber compound sealant   s8) s8)   its out of the way so it isnt a eyesore for me   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

i have had 3/4 days of rain since and my car is dry as a bone and has no dank smell    s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:

[Anonymous]

Check the side hood drains first, it's a far more common problem.

...and welcome to the club too!

With the assistance of a garden hose yesterday found that the side hood drains were totally blocked on both sides, moreso the nearside. So with a pair of tweezers and multiple other tools managed to clean them right out so that water flows through smooth as new! Hopefully that'll be an end to it, time will tell!

Thanks for the welcome too!  s:D s:D

Like your work pete-h! Hopefully mine won't return but if it does and it's similar to yours, I know what I'll be doing!

[custardavenger]

Ok time to post my water leak woes.

Have had a water leak similar to what everyone is describing. I've investigated it many times but not managed to pin point it.

After removing the windscreen pillar plastic I found the reinforcement webs behind it full of water. This explaines the gush of water I get when pulling away on a rainy morning. So after spraying the windscreen with water I worked on it being a windscreen leak. Pulled back the seal and siliconed where it looked dodgy. This didn't work. So at the weekend I went to Autoglass and asked their advice. Windscreen refit was what he said, £98. I don't think so.

So I have removed the windscreen pillar plastic again and on a very rainy day i now noticed a drip from near the roof catch. Great I though, Put a pot under it and I can remove more trim later and hopefully sort it out.

Just noticed it's raining now. Went out to put the pot in place and noticed water on the kick panel still   s:evil: :evil: s:evil:  . Looks like I have two leaks then. Will investigate when dry.

[Thudd]

Have you looked at where the roof rubbers join at the hinge above the door? I park on a steep slope nose down I get water sitting in the rubbers.

[custardavenger]

I'm just waiting for the right weather then will properly investigate it. I think it is to do with water running over the top of the seal and inside the door seal rather that outside it. Will post more when I get to it.

[custardavenger]

Update for me, I've found the major leak. It's a massive hole on the sealant about the windscreen.

Secondary leak seams to be water runningdown inside the seal around the roof door, It's getting in (I think) in the small pointless hole (mentioned earlier I think)

Just need to get a tube of sealant then put it all back together.

Fingers crossed.