MOT fail, ---NOW ITS PASSED, see how here

[enid_b]

As you know, my emissions test caused me to fail the MOT.  It was suggested that it was the KN filter i put in.

I bought a new OEM filter from MR.t this morning put it in, reset the ECU and went for a blast (see thread re ginger stepson)

MR.T then kindly did an emissions test for me, FREE OF CHARGE, and it still failed. i watched them doing it from the window, and also they were pokin about with the dipstick.

I had already put a litre of oil in that morning, and they told me the level was low.

They opinion is that the main CAT is fewbarred, and a re quoting about £700 for a new one.

I am at my wits end, and so upset about this - its hardly money i have to spare, and i have only had the '2 since february.  Its the first time i bought privately aswell.

Please can someone make some suggestions for me as i have no idea where to go on this one.

Cheers

Jason   s:( s:(

[Anonymous]

If it is the cat, I've got my old one sitting around if you'd like to save a bit of money...


That said, this is the first time I've heard of a cat being broken on the MR2 except by way of a pre-cat failure, so I'd be surprised if it is. No leaks around the exhaust area anywhere?

[markiii]

has it had precat failure?

[enid_b]

not sure bout pre cat failure.

ekona,

how much are u looking for chief?

(cmon guys there must be loads more answers you can give me to boost my spirits)

E

[roger]

Sorry not to give you a lift. Nobody appears to have mentioned that the bad news is the apparent loss of oil.

At the end of the day, that can only really happen because of something wrong in the engine.

The reasons could be many...I am sure you have read the many posts on the subject but the main culprit is damage to the bore / control rings. In the 2 this is usually either them going oval or the pre-cats breaking up and doing the damage.

Certainly the low cost options at this stage are checking out oil usage a bit more scientifically, and inspecting the precats for damage.

[Anonymous]

I'd defo get the engine looked at before spending 700 on a new cat and having that fail a year later due to an oil problem.

I had my precats removed intact in January but my engine is burning more and more oil and it has probably killed the cat as well. I have a new engine going in in 2 weeks time. After that i'll get an emission test done and replace the cat at that stage if required.

[enid_b]

Ok, one for you techs out there.

Mr T suggested that my CAT was fewbarred.  This was a conclusion they came to just by doing the emissions test, checking the oil level, and looking at the engine.

Is there a more technical way to diagnose what the problem is.  As mentioned, i am looking at the cause rather than the effect.  Would a code reader tell me anything ie CAT failed, Obstruction to airflow, O2 sensors, MAF failure etc etc.

Im looking at how i can resolve this so any help is very much appreciated.

I have been offered a replacement cat by Ekona (top bloke), but as mentioned on this thread, no point changing that if the engine is wrecked, as i dont want to be in the same boat in 12 months time.

Is changing the pipe a big job? im reasonably handy (used to have a triumph toledo and a morris oxford) with the spanners - just worried cos when i removed the nappy 3 bolts sheared off (stupid plastic parts).

Alternatively, i could swap the pipe, get an MOT, swap back and forth between pipes for each MOT lol.  

If the engine is screwed, do you think it will need  a whole new one? or just new parts in some of it.

I have done some searching but im lacking the definitive answers that i need.

Thanks

E

[kanujunkie]

right to start with you need to read this

 m http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=11393 m

this isn't confirmed but our engine has a resonance issue that as Roger said causes the oil control rings to become damaged. In fact they become oval in shape and then the oil slips down the sides, thats where thats all gone to. Unfortunatly it then exits down the exhaust pipes and soaks into the pre-cats causeing them to fail and break up, before they finally pile up on the back of the main cat.
The way you check for this is to remove the 02 sensors and inspect the pre-cats although the only way to be 100% sure is to inspect the bottom of the pre-cats as well.

sorry to dump bad news on you but we've seen these symptoms a lot on here and its rarely been wrong  s:( s:(

[Anonymous]

If the precats are already gone/removed and you still have the oval bore oil loss -thats going to wreck the main cat as well, right?

Would you get a CEL on the post cat sensor as well?

[kanujunkie]

the main cat is made of metal and is more resiliant, but the point is that this wont fix anything even if you gut the precats, If the engine wasn't drinking oil like a alcoholic in a brewery then i'd agree with Mr.T, its resonable to say that the cat has failed and needs replacing. But with the oil issue it puts an entirely different light in the equation and IMHO, the engine needs replacing, sorry E

[enid_b]

 m http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=11393 m

- was the first thing i re- read, having studied it before.

any ideas how they can confirm funny shaped rings?  i presume all this will have to be done at my expense?

E

[kanujunkie]

http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=11393

- was the first thing i re- read, having studied it before.

any ideas how they can confirm funny shaped rings?  i presume all this will have to be done at my expense?

E

easiest way for them is to put the engine on a lift, drop the oil pan and the remove the pistons from below and inspect them.
Personally i'd be getting them to address the oil loss issue, that should lead them down this road anyway. Good luck with this though mate

[enid_b]

just to clarify,

i would not say it was drinking oil, which is why i asked the questions re the cat.

its within the book limits.  i did put just under a litre in on the morning of the test, but this was in line with my regular topping up.

having reset the ecu and new filter - went out for a thrashing - straight in for the test - and only afterwards did they say the oil was low.

they didnt appear to give it anytime to settle before checking the dipstick, im unsure of how much they put in.

I checked it this morning having arrived at work, and it actually looks like its been overfilled a tad. thats after about 50 miles since the test.

back to my earlier question, would plugging it in give me a definitive answer as to a problem, ie could the MAF be causing high CO levels, or a problem with the O2 sensors.  I am at work for the next 4 days and its a round trip of 55 miles.  So i shall be checking it each journey.

At this stage im not convinced its drinking oil, as with the main pre cat thread i have read it several times, and not noticing any flat spot at 4500, no strange noises, no smoke, and no sluggishness. in fact since the last ecu reset it seems more spritely than ever.

More to follow.......... Meanwhile can you all light candles, cross fingers, pray to the MR2 gods and bestow good pleasant thoughts on my girl.

Thanks for the continued support

Jason

[kanujunkie]

sorry i was basing what i said on your origional comment of topping the oil up and 5 mins later it was low.

You should inspect the precats thoroughly from above and below, if they're intact then continue and replace the main cat before a retest for emissions, if its not ok then go back to my origional coment regarding oil loss and oil control rings

[enid_b]

ta stu,

funny socket thingy orderd and should be here early next week.

will continue to closely monitor oil/performance in the mean time.

anyone got any comments re the CEL and stuff providing me with any clues?

can i claim for a new engine on my insurance?

Jason

[Anonymous]

Hi, I'm new to the forum and new to Mr2 Mk3 ownership - been keeping my eye on this 'engine failure' problem which is starting to concern me -

why THIS particular toyota engine should be so much weaker than any other I'd like to know - if anyone has an answer ?..

Anyway, to your problem,

will a simple 10 min cylinder compression test not reveal the extent of the problem ?

Toyota should have a specific expected pressure range in their workshop manuals and if the rings are blowing oil then that pressure range will be way out...

sound much simpler than dropping rings or buying expensive parts at this stage...

[enid_b]

if she is burning oil, how long do u think a new cat would last before it stops working properly?

ie would i have enough time to go straight to an MOT test before it is wrecked?

if i can pass the test then it opens up a lot more options for me

E

[kanujunkie]

welcome to the club Flynnstudio!  s:D s:D  

have a read on and Enid says that although the first post had a coment about filling up with oil and then it being low later, its now not the case, so no engine work is required at the mo. A compression test is a valid thing to do, but if the if the engine has had the resonance issue then which has caused the oil loss then a compression test will only tell you what we already know. In Enid's case the oil is fine so an inspection of the pre-cats will be enough along with replacement of the main cat that he already has. Personally i'd gut the cat whilst i was there as well

[enid_b]

hi guys. just to let you know. ive been and had it tested, emissions are now super low as you would expect.

These are the steps i took to reduce the CO emissions;

1 - New air filter (stock), removed my K&N filter
2 - New Plugs
3 - Clean O2 sensors
4 - Clean MAF

5 - added a bottle of fuel additive just for good measure.

Total cost = £27.

Quote from MR.T = £750 for a new cat plus fitting !

I know that we all know this already, but never take Mr.T's word on the face of it.  If it wasnt for all you guys on here persevering with my whinging and whimpering (legal action thread etc) then i would have simply stumped up the cash and been none the wiser.

Special thanks to FGRob and Ekona, and Spit for wise words and encouragement.

Big girly love heart type smiley and kisses to u all.

E

(i have a spare main cat assembly if anyone needs it)

[philster_d]

Sounds familiar like SlurpyJ's experiences, he was quoted £850 but just cleaned the maff was enough.

[spit]

"I love it when a plan comes together."

  s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:  Good news J. and no elephants were harmed etc....!  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[enid_b]

lol @ colonel smith

[enid_b]

Woooohooooo, with a HUGE thanks to SPIT im now precat free.  He popped down to see me, (for an hour) then ended up staying for nearly three.

I felt quite redundant as he knuckled down with the spanners, telling me what goes where, how this fits, etc.

We both then had a good session with the hammer, screwdrivers, and bits of metal that we vented some anger on the precats.

All gone, a good vac, wash, blow, refit and test drive. all went swimmingly well.  

1 thing to note, due to my poor preparation, and haste to get the damm things out, i didnt get any gaskets.  As such its blowing a bit, but i dont really mind for a couple of days as its not blowing any of that harmful abrasive into my engine. Its still smokin like a b'std as its got plusgas, wd40, and some other penetrating oils all over it.

A bit of compound, a new gasket kit and 10 minutes with the spanner and i will be airtight and complete.

Spit took me out for a spin in his turbo, had he not helped me so much i would sue him due to the acceleration induced whiplash in my neck.



WOOOOHOOOOO, i can now take that well overdue chill pill and get back to tinkering and minor mods.....wonder how long it will take to save up for a turbo.

Thanks Ste, and all the other guys who helped, advised, and reassured me over the past 3 weeks.  

still got a spare main cat if anyone wants it, oh, and the precat debris is off to the local waste disposal plant (did i mention that?)


Enid   s:o s:o    s:D s:D    s:D s:D    s:D s:D    s:D s:D    s:D s:D    s:D s:D    s:D s:D    s:D s:D    s:D s:D    s:D s:D    s:!: :!: s:!:    s:D s:D

[spit]

Are you noticing a little more poke now?

Don't leave those gaskets too long - they did look a bit shredded and if they start to strip in the pipes you'll be ....well.....  gutted  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[enid_b]

it certainly does feel a lot more spritely, (still a slug compared to yours !)

i dont know how much is down to the gutting itself, or how much mental baggage that has been released since it has been gutted, knowing that its not now going to rip itself apart at any time.  im a lot happier opening her up now, and she certainly feels free.

will be doing the gaskets tomorrow i think, its defo blowing a bit - as u predicted - and the sooner they are done the better.

just leaving for the Level 42 gig, i got ur number so will try and give u a bell if i dont bump into u first.


thanks again.

Jason