Do they grow old gracefully?..... I am getting worried!

Anonymous · September 22, 2006, 13:05

I'm getting worried - or perhaps it is just new owner paranoia?

Having just bought an '04 with 36K miles, I am reading more and more about people on this site with engine and transmission problems at this and lower miles.

I have a transmission/clutch noise already (only 1 month into ownership) which I am trying to get fixed (car under mfctrs warranty), but once that is sorted what lifespan will the car have? I was hoping to keep it for 5 years and run it to 80-90K miles and still get some money back at the end.

I thought, when I bought it, hmmm 36K miles - that's a bit high for a 2.5 year old car, but its a Toyota, so should be no problem... now I am getting worried. Should I have gone for an MX5? Is the MR2 a delicate and troublesome motor?

Re-assure me guys -- surely there are success stories of MR2s with troublefree records as they get older and with more miles.

Hoping I am being paraniod and this is just the old "no one reports good news on forums" syndrome, but the more I read the worse I feel!

roger · September 22, 2006, 14:19

I think that syndrome affects us all s:cry: :cry: s:cry:

Firstly you have some warranty left, so make good use of it. Any rusting on the wheels...get some new ones.

Secondly the 03 -> appear not to have as much trouble as earlier ones. Lets hope that continues!

Thirdly, if you really are paranoid (Marvin s:wink: :wink: s:wink: ) do what I did and take out the pre-cats. Anything else that goes wrong is just because its a car.

Anonymous · September 22, 2006, 15:54

99% of Roadsters would last well into the 100,000 mile mark if looked after properly I reckon (nothing more than a normal service routine and removal of the pre-cats). You'll always get one or two bad eggs slip through, but Toyota have one of the most stringent quality control checks of any vehicle manufacturer.

I say ignore all the bad stuff you hear, and get out there and drive! s:D

s:D

enid_b · September 22, 2006, 16:02

sob sob s:(

s:(

Anonymous · September 22, 2006, 17:16

HMMM - i bought my 2 with the intention of keeping it for 10-15 years (as its my 2nd car) - 9 months into ownership and i'm replacing the engine.

Not a good start!

Quote from: "Ekona"but Toyota have one of the most stringent quality control checks of any vehicle manufacturer.

sorry but i dont agree with this - the 1ZZ-FE from 00-03 is a POS as far as im concerned.

Anonymous · September 22, 2006, 17:43

Can I ask why? There's very rarely much that goes wrong with it.

Anonymous · September 22, 2006, 20:57

I'm just of the opinion that an engine is badly designed if it resonates at 4000rpm and wears the bores oval. Mine showed the symptoms at 39K which is a pretty low mileage to be wearing an engine out.

I've had three Honda's with VTEC engines and taken all of them over 100K without any issues what so ever.

I know that Toyota have fixed the problems 03-04 but thats no good to quite a few users who have had oil loss issues with 00-03 engines based on the older design.

Anonymous · September 22, 2006, 21:11

Hey Don't go down that route with Honda, s:evil: :evil: s:evil: all manufacturers have problems, let me give you the list so far

1. Replaced rear shocks - Known fault by Honda but thought they would fix it when the cars came back for first service.
2. Interior trim falling off
3. Paint scratches on door jams

And the worst - an hesitation that they cannot fix - as the drive by wire is up the shoot - so far it's been in the garage 4 times for this one item s:x :x s:x I'm thinking about claiming for whiplash it's that bad s:shock: :shock: s:shock:

What is the car - it's a new 1.8 petrol sport Civic which is 5 months old and done 16000 miles.

Just goes to show how wrong they can get it.

northernalex · September 22, 2006, 21:40

Mine is a 52 plate 25ish K.. gonna make sure I keep up with the toyota warrenty! Looks like you'll have to just have to be careful with the mods so they dont invalidate the warrenty.

Anonymous · September 22, 2006, 22:50

hmmm. I was hoping for lots of positive happy replies... come on chaps you can do better than that!

red_leicester · September 23, 2006, 07:53

People slagging off Toyota and Honda for poor reliability and quality?

Good job you guys didn't buy an MGF or some other car that does have quality problems.

IMO any car is a mechanial and electrical marvel consisting of thousands of individual parts... and things will go wrong. Some people experience more problems than others. It's going to be a long time until you get a defect-free car for 150,000 miles, as manufacturers have lots of other things to consider apart from 100% reliability.

Anonymous · September 23, 2006, 09:45

My mr2 is 3 years old 21k miles and hasn't missed a beat.
I had the oil changed 5k ago and it hasn't used a drop.

My good friend has a 52 plate with 50k and apart from having his discs and pads changed and his alloys changed under warranty has also had no problems.

Sure the 1zz-fe engine has issues but name me an engine that doesn't and is known to be 100% reliable in all cases upto 100k.
Please remember for every owner who posts catastrohpic engine failure on here there are dozens driving out there with no problems at all.
Having spent the last 6 years driving peugeots, renaults and rovers the Toyota is the most reliable car I've had by a long shot.
I would not hessitate to buy another for reliability.

Anonymous · September 23, 2006, 11:04

As a new Mr2 K3 owner (MY02) I have similar concerns. I have bought a beautiful car with a known ( though not to me but known to Toyota!) achillies heel.

Quite frankly I'm not convinced gutting the pre-cats is the solution - it is sounding more and more to me like there is a fundamental piston cyclinder ring bore issue which is WHY early cars had a number of engines as 'at the time' ( back then in 2001-2003) they did not have a resolved engine to replace a failed engine with and this is why the later cars are not failing...To that end I think Toyota needs to issue a total recall of all cars that have not had the engine replaced or at least honour a lifetime 'sub 60K' replacement block policy on this vehicle...

Having just come from a Subaru Impreza I can state categorically that that car didn't have a forum filled with people discussing engine failures within the first 5 years of it's life - sure there was the occasional post about a 10 year old car going bang at 80K but NOTHING like this...and this is a performance car which is given a VERY hard life. Which is exaclty what the Mr2 should expect to have...and certainly the kind of treatment the Mk2 has had over the years...

This is undeniably a serious and genuine issue and not something I would EVER have suspected a major global company like Toyota allowing to go unchecked.

Admitting you 'got it wrong' and fixing the problem is absolutely the only ethical way to operate in this day and age. Regardless of the opinion of some that Toyota is untouchable due to size and wealth they are not invulnerable to a collapse of public trust and if such a mentality of denial has been born deep inside Toyota then their days are strictly numbered as it's literally only a matter of time before this new 'stuff em' philosophy manifests itself in a failure that goes very public...

kanujunkie · September 23, 2006, 11:35

i agree but there is little that can be done, no one has ever managed to get Mr.T to admit that this is a real issue, in fact most deny it even exists. Either way though, please do remember that forums do highlight the worst and there are very few cars overall that have suffered from this. Personally i thrash my 2 within an inch of its life on a daily basis and touch wood have never had a problem, i've completed 50K NA and 10K turbo'd and the biggest engine problem i've had was a coolant leak on the turbo and a cracked exhaust, none of which have anything to do with Mr.T, so they can last fine and thats just one case, there are loads of higher mileage 2's out there with no issues

loadswine · September 23, 2006, 11:36

Mine's a 2000 model and has done 37k, precats removed, uses a bit of oil, but always topped up when required. I always let it warm up before extending the engine and give it a real caning from time to time. Always begs for more!
What's more, I leave it for months sometimes in the winter, and it always starts on the turn of the key.
Yes you worry about the odd noise, but you sit pretty close to where its all happening. Certainly no worse than any other manufacturer and we have the best and most helpful club there is!! s8)

s8)

aaronjb · September 23, 2006, 12:03

Quote from: "flynnstudio"To that end I think Toyota needs to issue a total recall of all cars that have not had the engine replaced

s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

That's all I can say to that, really.. s:roll: :roll: s:roll:

markiii · September 23, 2006, 12:10

you guys need to read more.

we have has post 03 failures, and we have had quite a few 03 cat failures,

the big difference from an owners club perspective is that we learnt that gutting precats was a good idea before most of teh 03 owners bought theres, so there are less failures partially becuase there are less precats

Wabbitkilla · September 23, 2006, 12:45

The forums highlight the problems people have because they are looking for solutions. What do you say on a forum if everything keeps going ok?

Ok i haven't done much real mileage in my 2 yet to make a full judgement, but i read up and on the whole there's no problem. I had the pre-cats gutted to get that worry off mymind no matter how small the chance of them letting go. I look forward to many rewarding years of ownership. Ste's MR-S has done over 80K and is now C2 powered, I had a Yaris Ts with a very similar engine and that did 80K without problems from the engine department.

Compared to the VW Bora i had;
1/2 Litre of Oil every 1000Miles and described as normal.
After 36000Miles the rear suspension bushes had given out and VW described that as high mileage - a published and well known problem to every MK4 Golf & Bora owner and yet you were left to your own devices and wallet to sort it.
Brakes that totally failed with one flex hose going at the front - "Ooh err we don't understand that", and didn't do anything about it.

The previous Corsa Flair that would flood as you drove along.

Every manufacturer has its problems, and i would say Toyota have their fair share, but on the whole i would say they are above par on reliability. I am disappointed that they choose to ignore certain problems with engines, but every manufacturer does. Have you read about the odd Honda having excessive oil consumption? I have!

The engine vibration at around 4200rpm, i think is something to do with the VVTi changing the cam timing as i fell the boost. The Yaris was exactly the same - no problem.

I feel sorry for those who have had problems (some made it worse themselves). But i make sure i don't go near 4000rpm when cold, and try to look after her as best as possible. The 2ZZ engine even restricts itself below 6000rpm i believe when cold, and that engine has it's own set of "features".

I don't believe a full recall is required or feasible, but acceptance of a known issue with oval bores and pre-cat failure should be accepted by Mr T and dealt ith FOC when it happens whether it's been stamped serviced by a Toyota dealer or not. But we live in a world ruled by large corporates, they have the upper hand and we are nothing but an annoying buzz. How do you correct that? If you have the answer - I'm all ears.

Anonymous · September 23, 2006, 13:41

OK - so I am feeling a bit better. It looks like I have few things in my favour too:

1) I have an '04 Model, so hopefully has a few of the problems ironed out by Toyota (but the pre-cats could still be an issue).

2) I am still under the 3yr manufacturer's warranty (until May 07) - that can only be a good thing. Actually it also an approved used Toyota, so that warranty actually goes on to Aug 07.

3) I have driven it for only 1K miles, but have to report not a single drop of oil was used.

and, what I will do from now on is:

1) Make sure any issues are sorted out within the warranty. My current noisy clutch (release bearing maybe, but not confirmed by MrT yet) is first on the list -- frankly, this is driving me crazy and maybe why I am feeling disheartened... front brake discs are about to be replaced too due to corrosion and (thanks to the dealer) they are replacing the front pads FOC too. I'll keep an eye on everything else.

2) Extend the warranty beyond Aug 07. I may well do this. Still thinking about it.

3) Stop worrying... Looking back through the cars service records (I have all the receipts), I can see the car has been quite gently driven. For example, the front tyres still have >4mm tread after 36K miles. The rears were replaced as part of the deal when I bought it, but were still legal. The original brake pads still have plenty of life left - and the service checks it has had reveals no past problems and 3 stamps in the book.

4) Realise pre-cats could still be an issue on an '04 car.

- PS - this is a great forum and another thing in the favour of MR2 ownership.

Anonymous · September 23, 2006, 13:44

I admit i was having a bit of a rant. This is the first engine i've ever had any major problems with. Toyota are not interested becuase mine is a Euro import and has 1 stamp missing from its service book - mind you i knew that at he time of purchase.

Having to spend 2K to fix a car thats only done 42K seems a like a lot to me.

I understood that the post 03 engines had different oil control rings and that a further deisgn change was made in 04? Has anyone actually had a case of oval bores on a post 03 model?

Anyway i've spent 1K on a 12K 05 engine and it will cost me another 600 to have it fitted. There also the fact that the main cat might have gone to the amount of burnt oil going through it. I wont know that until i get an emissions test on the new engine once installed.

All in all - not a good week.

Anonymous · September 23, 2006, 13:51

Hope it all works out.

It does seem a bit much having to replace an engine at such a low mileage. Like you, I have had lots of ther cars and never once had an engine problem.

e.g. Mk1 Golf GTI - ran from 50K to 115K miles - no probs - no oil used!
Pug 106 Rallye - ran from new to 40K miles (spend most of its life over 6000rpm - no probs)
Volvo V40 ran from 60K to 120K miles - as above

So, it does look like a design problem. Did the Celica suffer similar problems from 2000 - 2003?

Anonymous · September 23, 2006, 14:25

Ah - another V40 man. My main car is a V40 turbo diesel which i've had from new. 50K miles later and not i single drop of oil between services.

I'm sure i've just been unlucky as lots of 00-03 engines appeared to have survived. It's a lovely little car which i really enjoy driving which is why im prepared to spend the money keeping it giong. Hopefully this engine should last me years.

If you have an o4 model you should be fine. Get those precats out though.

Wabbitkilla · September 23, 2006, 14:50

All i can say is enjoy it.
Look after it.
By all means extend your warranty if you have no intention of modding it (yeah - i said that too s:lol: :lol: s:lol: )

All I really meant to say, yes you've had problems, you are one of the unlucky ones. But in the grand scheme of things it could've happened to any car.

Anonymous · September 23, 2006, 14:57

Ah yes, my main car from 2000-early 2006 was the V40 CD 2.0 petrol. It was a nail of an engine (unrefined) and didn't like to rev beyond 5K. The gearbox was some Renault affair and was as sloppy as they come, but the whole thing felt bullet proof. The seats were amazing, and the car handled pretty amazingly for a family estate. I also thought it was one of the best looking estate cars ever built. Main car now a Focus 1.6VCT - so far very impressed - perfect for most occasions, a comfortable motorway cruiser and very good for a FWD in the steering/handling department.

I think once the noisy clutch is sorted out in my MR2 I'll be feeling better... I am one of those people who, when something is wrong in my car, it ruins the whole driving experience for me. All I seem to be doing is go back and forth to Toyota dealers in my MR2, trying to fit this in around work, when really it should be sitting in MY garage waiting for me to enjoy it at the weekend! grrrr. s:evil: :evil: s:evil:

Wabbitkilla · September 23, 2006, 15:14

I can fully understand your frustrations.

You should've seen me yesterday when i couldn't disable my alarm because someone had fitted a wireless door bell!

But today is a different day s:wink: :wink: s:wink: