Bosch LSU4.2 wideband o2 sensor

[kanujunkie]

anyone know a cheap source for these?

i'm sure i remember something about VW doing them cheap but i cant find any details

[philster_d]

mine was about 70 quid from usa, about $99 dollars or something. But thats the sensor only not the display.

[kanujunkie]

mine was about 70 quid from usa, about $99 dollars or something. But thats the sensor only not the display.

i've got a display already. Did that include a controller though?

[philster_d]

But thats the sensor only

[kanujunkie]

okay dokay, i've found them for that in the UK so i may just go for it

[spit]

I used Salome Trading for the whole kit. Ordered direct but they're regulars on EBay - very responsive firm (hint: talk to them directly and they may do you a better deal - worked for me  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  ).

Link - sensor only - 55 quid

Link - all the stuff in their shop

[philster_d]

I need to know how to connect it to my prophec. I have the external signal harness but the instructions with that are all Japanese.  s:? :? s:?

[Anonymous]

Guys, I would like to ask a naive question if you don't mind.  

Is there something special about this o2 sensor?  Or is it more accurate than the stock (I can't think in what other way an o2 sensor can be "better")?

[kanujunkie]

1st, cheers Ste, thats spot on

2nd, Phil i'd have thought you would need the wideband controller, the sensor on its own wont allow for setup unless it can be done on the profec

 m http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/supp ... Manual.pdf m

3rd Emmanuel, wideband is as you say a more sensitive version of the stock o2 sensors that allows you to measure the air to fuel ratio for tuneing

[spit]

You probably need the controller too Stu, yes? £145 for both. I've rooted out the guy's contact details:  e mailto:salometrading@vano.co.uk">salometrading@vano.co.uk e  Based in Langdon Hills, Basildon ... which I'm told is somewhere daaan saaaf  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

Interesting trick you can perform with the analogue outs is to use one of them to supply the ECU NB signal and ditch the stock NB sensor completely. The software then allows you to trim the stoich point.

I tried it and it worked OK, but it upset the gauge signal. Innovate suggested conflicting ground connections but it was easier to revert back to NB feed rather than re-route the grounds. If you get this working Stu, let me know how.

[kanujunkie]

that was my plan to get the controller as well, TBH i just love the idea of being able to use the laptop to set things up, but hey i'm a gadget freak  s:roll: :roll: s:roll:  

£155 delivered for a WB, not bad i suppose, wheres the CC?

[aaronjb]

Is there something special about this o2 sensor?  Or is it more accurate than the stock (I can't think in what other way an o2 sensor can be "better")?

The stock sensors have an incredibly narrow range of values for which they are accurate - basically they only read a true value at stoic.  Other than that all they can reliably be used to read is 'rich' or 'lean' - that's all (our) stock ECU needs, however.

Wideband sensors are accurate over a much more complete range (depending on the model of sensor & controller, but usually somewhere from 9 - 18:1 air/fuel ratio), and can be used to get a true reading of the oxygen content of the exhaust, making them an indispensible tool for tuning (while the narrowband sensor is useless for tuning).

 s:) s:)

[edit] Incidentally, some cars do now come equipped with wideband sensors - I think the new VAG engines have them. </trivia>

[kanujunkie]

on that website that Ste posted, it says that Porsche, Audi, VW, Subaru, and Volvo all come with them as standard

[spit]

Yep there's a few new ECUs starting to trim on the current-based WB signal rather than the more hit'n'hope voltage basis of NB fuel adjustment. I wonder whether/how they perform routine check calibrations though - it takes a good overnight vent before the exhaust clears to read an accurate free air level.

Anyone considered ditching the EM Blue and teaming up WB with the EM Ultimate for easier DIY mapping?

[philster_d]

I only wanted to connect it to the profec to display the AFR

[Anonymous]

I only wanted to connect it to the profec to display the AFR

I did this with mine, i'm sure markiii has done this with his aswell.

I put the spare output from the controller into the external signal harness then in the settings put the value i wanted to display at a certain voltage it received. This depends on the voltages your WB outputs. Mine was 0-5v some are 0-10v. Ever so easy to do Phil.

Stu i still have my complete WB setup in the garage somewhere if you are interested   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[philster_d]

but do I need to buy a controller then ?

[kanujunkie]

yep, because otherwise you cant control the voltage outputs for calibration

[philster_d]

I see, thanks for the advice guys.

[Anonymous]

Got it!  This isn't an area I am familiar with but I'm guessing the wideband sensors would make no difference with just the standard ECU as, according to Aaron, it expects only certain values (i.e. lean or rich).  The controller would therefore be mandatory (as Stu's point no. 2)...

Thanks guys.

[spit]

You can "fool" the ECU with an adjusted analogue feed from the WB to move the AFR point that it deciphers as stoich, but aside from altering your fuel economy and failing lambda on emissions I can't really see the point on a stocker.

[Tem]

Here we go...  s8) s8)

Normal lambda, aka narrowband is what we and most other cars have from the factory. It outputs a voltage between 0-1V, related to the amount of oxygen in the gas. It's accurate only around stoich mixture. Anywhere else it just shows whether you're leaner or richer from that. Yes, there are gauges for it, but they are at best just good guesses. Even if you calibrate a given sensor and gauge together, so that it shows proper values, it's off the moment the temperature of the gas changes. These are useful only for keeping the mixture at stoich in closed loop.
(there are also narrowbands that change resistance instead of outputting a voltage, but the idea stays the same)

Wideband sensors have been very expensive and still cost more than narrowbands, but they are getting cheaper and are already showing up in new cars from the factory. It also outputs a voltage, but that voltage doesn't really tell anything. The sensor itself is useless, it needs a controller to go with it. The controller keeps the sensor output voltage constant by controlling the current going into it. The amount of the current needed for that is what gives the oxygen content in the gas. The controller can output anything and it's usually programmable. 0-5V is generally used, but it's not a standard or anything. There are several different wideband sensors and they only work with the controller meant for it. You can't mix and match. Depending from the sensors, these are accurate from 5:1 mixture to +20% oxygen, which is more than the amount of oxygen in the air. These are useful if you're interested in knowing the mixture outside stoich. Most controllers can also output a 0-1V signal, which emulates a narrowband sensor signal. That however doesn't offer any increased accuracy over narrowband. It's useful for swapping a stock narrowband for a wideband to measure the mixture AND keeping the stock ecu happy with the narrowband output. It can also be used to fool the ecu to adjust into any mixture, not necessarily stoich. For example you might wanna target 15.4 for better fuel economy.

[philster_d]

so there is no benefits from swapping to wideband ? if it emulates the old 1 volt signal.

I wanted to connect it to my e-manage ? I have brought the external signal harness and the sensor, I guess I should just write off the hundred or so quid.


Phil

[markiii]

Phil,

your looking at this from teh wrong angle.

the benefit is not in being able to make your ECU read the wideband and make decisions on it

the benefit is being able to see you AF ratio on teh Profec and know when your about to grenade your engine

[philster_d]

but scrolling up im being told I cant connect it like that I need the controller to emulate the old 1 volt signal....... ?

Otherwise what do I need ? the bosch controller ? its not clear to me.