Want more power.

[northernalex]

Question is.. who is going to go for ITBs.. Surely no lag just the feeling of a bigger N/A engine.

Apparantly FRD in Middlesbro do they for 1500 quid fitted but I've still not got around to calling them

Any thoughts?

[markiii]

apparently teh elise ones are good for 40bhp on teh 1.8K so expect similar gains done properly, and the noise  :-) :-) :-)

[tom_deas]

that still ends up £1500 for 40bhp though

[aaronjb]

Any thoughts?

Just that you must have mislaid the Search button, Alex...   s:flame: :flame: s:flame:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

 l viewtopic.php?f=7&t=16365&hilit=throttle+bodies l

[Anonymous]

apparently the elise ones are good for 40bhp on the 1.8K so expect similar gains done properly, and the noise  :-) :-) :-)

Hmmmmmmm 40 BHP on top of 168 - 208 BHP for £1500 Could be interesting  s:D s:D    s:D s:D

[muffdan]

that still ends up £1500 for 40bhp though

TTE Turbo is £4500 for a ~48bhp gain   s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  

Jason

[Wabbitkilla]

Y'know it's always a combination of things that help this car!
You can make tiny gains with various things on their own - belive me, i've tried.

I've stumbled, well rather evolved towards a very nice setup now.
164bhp is quite fun in this car - not massively impressive compared to the FI setups, but still nicely enjoyable.

Apexi power intake
Bored & flowed Throttle Body
Che manifold
Janspeed Exhaust
TRD Lightened Flywheel
Exedy Organic clutch
Greddy Iridium Plugs
Castrol Edge 0w30 oil
Apexi Power FC
Tuned by Noble Performance

It's not cheap power, but worth it imho.
That's pretty much the best you can make out of this engine without replacing cams or adding forced induction. But at least plenty of people have tried and tested many ways to achieve more power and there're plenty of options to try now.

Personally my only route to more power would be a super/turbo charger setup, which i am still tempted to explore. But i've also invested in handling and breaking improvements so when/if i make more power i can control it. Adding power might not get you around the next corner any quicker, but stiffer chassis might do.

[muffdan]

But i've also invested in handling and breaking improvements so when/if i make more power i can control it.

Well said.  +1

Totally agree, Its never a sensible idea to go for significant the power gains before making the car able to deal with it. It can get you into trouble.

[tom_deas]

that still ends up £1500 for 40bhp though

TTE Turbo is £4500 for a ~48bhp gain   s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  

Jason

value for money of TTE kit... witholding my opinion

but other turb options - say thors CC'd stage 3 - 280hp at flywheel IIRC? for £3kish in kit form... i dunno, 100+bhp for £3000 seems better than 40bhp for £1500  s:) s:)

[markiii]

n/a delivery is totally different to Turbo depends on what floats your boat

delivery is as important as the overall power imho

[tom_deas]

n/a delivery is totally different to Turbo depends on what floats your boat

delivery is as important as the overall power imho

id only opt turbo purely for power, not for delivery, personally. im a n/a man  s:) s:)

[northernalex]

Any thoughts?

Just that you must have mislaid the Search button, Alex...   s:flame: :flame: s:flame:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

 l viewtopic.php?f=7&t=16365&hilit=throttle+bodies l

Aaron, knew all about that - take a look,I'm pretty sure I even posted on there  s:flame: :flame: s:flame:  , was inviting discussion here and now (new members and the like) - plus Cumbrianchris seems to have completely vanished after his (non fatal but pretty serious) accident and Rich (his scribe for a while) hasnt been on much since his engine went pop.

Tom, you say 1500 for 40bhp.. Well the TTE turbo gives you about 48 bhp for 4K. So its certainly cheaper (as Jason said before).

Certainly going to have to call FRD one of these days (when I'm finished messing with me GF's new Renault 5 1.4GTS, turbo engine withougt the turbo.. for now!)


Alex

[muffdan]

id only opt turbo purely for power, not for delivery, personally. I'm a n/a man

Try driving a turbo'd '2 first, different turbo setups can be very different to each other and I'd be very suprised if you didn't find a setup you liked. A small turbo will generate a huge swell of mid range torque and come with a low boost threshold. Depending on IC/CC setup, they can also give negligible lag. They're not all about top end power.

I'm popping over to Russ's place tonight if you want to pop over too and take mine for quick spin.

Jason

[Anonymous]

I have to agree with Mark here.
As a general rule, the extra 40 bhp will only come in at higher revs on an n/a, where as on a turbo, it comes in lower down (but I guess it is really torque I'm talking about here - this is where the turbo really scores).
In terms of day to day drivability (my daily driver is a chipped turbo 9-5 - sad I know   s:( s:(  ) the turbo is great, particularly with the auto tranny; where the n/a 2 really scores is round the corners.
So, what to do; if I was a track day fan then I guess I would go for the tuned n/a route - everything is going to be at high revs - so also need to think about chassis mods and maybe gear ratios etc. But for the every day driver, then methinks turbo.

[tom_deas]

id only opt turbo purely for power, not for delivery, personally. I'm a n/a man

Try driving a turbo'd '2 first, different turbo setups can be very different to each other and I'd be very suprised if you didn't find a setup you liked. A small turbo will generate a huge swell of mid range torque and come with a low boost threshold. Depending on IC/CC setup, they can also give negligible lag. They're not all about top end power.

I'm popping over to Russ's place tonight if you want to pop over too and take mine for quick spin.

Jason

im saying im a n/a man because im determined not to get tempted into turboing until its economically sensible to do so   s:!: :!: s:!:   but that said when is there ever an economically sensible time to turbo  s;) s;)

ahh will have to stop by... i only live a few roads down anyway. what time you there?

[markiii]

going back to one of Chris GBs comments the issue with the rubo power delivery isn't all down to lag. the PE has virtually none

however, balancing teh throttle through corners i.e teh sweet spot between load and no load on teh engine is always more difficult on a turbo

it's manageable I know I had the turbo for ages.

however given an ideal world and teh same power I'd have an N/a engine every time

[muffdan]

ahh will have to stop by... i only live a few roads down anyway. what time you there?

19:30 onwards. We'll be fitting Russ' new style bar too so we'll have to fit it in around that. Sure we can spend 10 minutes away though.

Jason

[custardavenger]

OK I'm joining this thread late but has anyone mentioned Superchargers?

Not sure of the current prices for the various kits available but mines up to +80BHP and theres definately more to gain from a better map.

Thing is, If you don't want lag, or an engine swap it's got to be the easiest way of increasing BHP and Torque.

[markiii]

OK I'm joining this thread late but has anyone mentioned Superchargers?

Not sure of the current prices for the various kits available but mines up to +80BHP and theres definately more to gain from a better map.

Thing is, If you don't want lag, or an engine swap it's got to be the easiest way of increasing BHP and Torque.

easiest if you have the ability to build the kit Rob  :-) :-) :-)

not seen a production kit available thast just bolt on yet, though I'm really looking forward to seeing yours in the flesh

[custardavenger]

Oh no. Mine is bolt on. I'm getting it modified to sort a problem with the design but I'm sure any kit purchased from them will include this mod as well. Other than that and the fact it's running Power FC + 550 injectors rather than the single 750 and aquamist.

[markiii]

really? whos kit is it?

[custardavenger]

TTS, I believe it's not currently on the website but they definately have a pre modified kit on the shelf.

[tom_deas]

right. took jasons 240bhp monster for a spin (thank you very much!) and i can safely say im sold. thats all there is to say. except "f*ck me!". lol. madness.  s:D s:D

[evileye_wrx]

Before

id only opt turbo purely for power, not for delivery, personally. I'm a n/a man

After

right. took jasons 240bhp monster for a spin (thank you very much!) and i can safely say I'm sold. thats all there is to say. except "f*ck me!". lol. madness.  s:D s:D

I like a man who will stick by his convictions   s8) s8)  

Phil

[ChrisGB]

When it comes to delivery, there is also the consideration of the difference between turbo setups. I drove Liz's TTET car and the delivery is very linear, lag minimal and throttle response consistent. These are the properties of a good installation. It is possible to go for much more power, but then you may kill the gearbox (TTET was originally rated to 180 ish lb/ft which is where I would stay for reliability myself). Also, significantly bigger power means bigger turbine, means more lag. IMO the optimum setup would give you a flat torque curve of 180lb/ft out to the redline. This is difficult to do as other factors affect how the air enters the engine.

If I were going turbo, I would want minimal lag. For me, something like the PE setup would be favoured. Not huge power at 200bhp but small turbo for best throttle response.

I am looking to go Crower stage 1 cam eventually, with PE Camcon or PFC to tune. Response here would be purely NA.

As for ITBs adding 40bhp, I seriously doubt it is that simple. Maybe ITBs will allow tuning room for an extra 40bhp from stock (so 178bhp) or maybe more with other mods, but remember a set of tuned stubs in a plenum chamber will be cheaper to build, easier to set up and have better gas flow. Biggest advantage of ITBs is throttle response. I suspect that any big gain from ITBs or other inlet stub system may have repercussions lower down the rev range too.

Chris