Che header

[dieamond]

after reading lots of previous threads on the subject of replacement manifolds, it would seem that the che has the advantage of the dual o2 ports, but there are some reported operational problems (fgrob i think..)

How widespread are these problems?  could it be a bad design, and therefore count against the che in comparison to others or is it possible that the reported problems are one offs?

Diemond - do you sell both ppe and che?  do you have any insight about their reliability and whether problems are widespread?

The only problem we met on Che manifolds was on *one of them* an alignment problem for the heatshield bolts, that's all

However, as I always explain, Che isn't a performance manifold.
It's clearly not flow optimized, with medium welding and angles, it's only point is to remove your precat easily and for a very low price

If you want power, go PPE, without a doubt !

[Anonymous]

after reading lots of previous threads on the subject of replacement manifolds, it would seem that the che has the advantage of the dual o2 ports, but there are some reported operational problems (fgrob i think..)

How widespread are these problems?  could it be a bad design, and therefore count against the che in comparison to others or is it possible that the reported problems are one offs?

Diemond - do you sell both ppe and che?  do you have any insight about their reliability and whether problems are widespread?

The only problem we met on Che manifolds was on *one of them* an alignment problem for the heatshield bolts, that's all

However, as I always explain, Che isn't a performance manifold.
It's clearly not flow optimized, with medium welding and angles, it's only point is to remove your precat easily and for a very low price

If you want power, go PPE, without a doubt !

Well guys after Saturday you could argue the point about performance, this was a big surprize to me, both mine and leggy's figures clearly indicates that the che will help performance. The only difference between mine and Leggy's is I've not got the Markiii pipe fitted yet. We both have a custom exhaust, panel filter and the che.

Performance wise,  FGRob - 147.3 BHP
                                         128 LB FT
                            Leggy -  146.6 I think
                                         132 LB FT

Now that seems OK but when you compare that to a couple of the 2's which had the pre-cats removed plus chipped, the max I saw was 145BHP not sure about the torque.

On the che yes you pay for what you get, I'm removing mine and having a purpose made manifold, see my post in group buy. Then I'm fitting the SP de-cat pipe along with a Apexi Power FC unit, if I can get up to 160BHP and a significant increase in torque, I will be very happy.

Rob

[dreambackup]

that's good news. mine is being prepared with lots of WD40  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

"should" be done by the end of the week  s:!: :!: s:!:    s:!: :!: s:!:    s:!: :!: s:!:

[dieamond]

how can you call 2hp over a stock gutted cat a performance improvement ?   s:shock: :shock: s:shock:

[Anonymous]

how can you call 2hp over a stock gutted cat a performance improvement ?   s:shock: :shock: s:shock:

Now that seems OK but when you compare that to a couple of the 2's which had the pre-cats removed plus chipped, the max I saw was 145BHP not sure about the torque.Rob

[dieamond]

how can you call 2hp over a stock gutted cat a performance improvement ?   s:shock: :shock: s:shock:

Now that seems OK but when you compare that to a couple of the 2's which had the pre-cats removed plus chipped, the max I saw was 145BHP not sure about the torque.Rob

  s:oops: :oops: s:oops:

[Anonymous]

how can you call 2hp over a stock gutted cat a performance improvement ?   s:shock: :shock: s:shock:

Now that seems OK but when you compare that to a couple of the 2's which had the pre-cats removed plus chipped, the max I saw was 145BHP not sure about the torque.Rob

  s:oops: :oops: s:oops:

Or should I say "french fries"   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

If you look at the SP exhaust thread you will get an idea of the stock system outputs, 118FTLBs Torque and 138BHP which were run on the same Dyno.

[rtbiscuit]

this conversations keep switching my mind.

i'm pretty sure i'm going for the CHE, as its a direct swap, and no modding of the o2. it also means at a later date i can put a universal hi flow cat in to free up a bit more.

although the PPE sounds tempting, but its such a large outlay straight away.

and i just want those pesky precats out.

[Anonymous]

I do not forsee any major improvement over stock header with Che's. Perhaps Che's might look better in photos, but I highly suspect the looks has nothing to do with its performance. The bottleneck in our 2 is the precats, and the main cat. You need to upgrade them first in order to see noticeable difference in any header used.

Power/cost wise I would rather gut the pre cats and retain stock header. The precats are there to pass the 2 as ULEV and nothing else. If performance is what you are after, there's no reason not to gut them. Getting Che's with precat on will not make any performance difference with stock pre and main cat in place, at least not until we see some dyno numbers.

[Tem]

I do not forsee any major improvement over stock header with Che's. Perhaps Che's might look better in photos, but I highly suspect the looks has nothing to do with its performance. The bottleneck in our 2 is the precats, and the main cat. You need to upgrade them first in order to see noticeable difference in any header used.

Getting Che's with precat on will not make any performance difference with stock pre and main cat in place, at least not until we see some dyno numbers.

I think you're confusing something. Che's header removes the precats.

And unlike gutting them, it doesn't leave two empty chambers in the header to mess up the flow.

[Anonymous]

My 2 pence worth:

I was very much leaning towards a PPE manifold earlier this year - proven power gains etc etc.
After much reading it became clear there are some pretty fundemental flaws - only one 02 sensor (another list of problems here), CEL problems, welds cracking, no effective bracing.

Following the dynoday wew had some interesting results:

My car : UNICHIP (custom map), TRD Filter, Markiii duct, NO PRECATS, TTE exhaust
145bhp , 130 1b/ft torque
Heaths' car also with very similar mods had more or less the same figures (maybe more torque?)

The guys running che headers were getting bhp figures of 147,148bhp and that was just with a panel filter , no UNICHIP.
Admittedly they showed less improvement in torque ( a few lb/ft)

When you consider a stock car ran 133bhp on the day - that's a 14bhp gain for a manifold and filter which together cost less than £250!!

[Anonymous]

I do not forsee any major improvement over stock header with Che's. Perhaps Che's might look better in photos, but I highly suspect the looks has nothing to do with its performance. The bottleneck in our 2 is the precats, and the main cat. You need to upgrade them first in order to see noticeable difference in any header used.

Power/cost wise I would rather gut the pre cats and retain stock header. The precats are there to pass the 2 as ULEV and nothing else. If performance is what you are after, there's no reason not to gut them. Getting Che's with precat on will not make any performance difference with stock pre and main cat in place, at least not until we see some dyno numbers.

I'm not sure which thread you have been reading, but you need to revisit what has been said above, the che does remove the pre-cats, it also gives a smoother flow path, remember the che is a rip off  of the TRD header  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

Also the figures stated are actual Dyno figures so I'm not sure what you mean in your last statement.

The che does the job which I think the above proves, the next stage for me is to refine the header even more, but that's my decision and if others choice to follow so be it.

Just to confirm what my set up is:

Che header
Blueflame custom twin exhaust
K&N panel filter
Total cost £600

Plus I was running on 99 Ron fuel.

Thanks
Rob

[Anonymous]

Sorry for not knowing the whole fact before I post!   s:oops: :oops: s:oops:    s:oops: :oops: s:oops:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:   Yes, without the two empty chambers, the airflow will certainly be better!

[Anonymous]

Sorry for not knowing the whole fact before I post!   s:oops: :oops: s:oops:    s:oops: :oops: s:oops:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:   Yes, without the two empty chambers, the airflow will certainly be better!

No problems my friend  s:D s:D    s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[Anonymous]

And didn't your car post something like 147bhp with that setup Rob?

[Anonymous]

And didn't your car post something like 147bhp with that setup Rob?

Yep is was 147.3  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[TommyD]

Just for comparison my now totally stock 2 posted 133bhp so a good improvement.

[evileye_wrx]

And my stock set up made 138.2bhp unless the tte exhaust gave me 5bhp, which I thought it wasn't supposed to do.

Phil

[roger]

And my stock set up made 138.2bhp unless the tte exhaust gave me 5bhp, which I thought it wasn't supposed to do.

Phil

Perhaps it was the new wheels...I am sure we could think of a good enough reason why....

Rolling radius, weight, C of G, looks   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[TommyD]

Maybe its the mileage, mines now on 30K

[heathstimpson]

after reading lots of previous threads on the subject of replacement manifolds, it would seem that the che has the advantage of the dual o2 ports, but there are some reported operational problems (fgrob i think..)

How widespread are these problems?  could it be a bad design, and therefore count against the che in comparison to others or is it possible that the reported problems are one offs?

Diemond - do you sell both ppe and che?  do you have any insight about their reliability and whether problems are widespread?

The only problem we met on Che manifolds was on *one of them* an alignment problem for the heatshield bolts, that's all

However, as I always explain, Che isn't a performance manifold.
It's clearly not flow optimized, with medium welding and angles, it's only point is to remove your precat easily and for a very low price

If you want power, go PPE, without a doubt !

Well guys after Saturday you could argue the point about performance, this was a big surprize to me, both mine and leggy's figures clearly indicates that the che will help performance. The only difference between mine and Leggy's is I've not got the Markiii pipe fitted yet. We both have a custom exhaust, panel filter and the che.

Performance wise,  FGRob - 147.3 BHP
                                         128 LB FT
                            Leggy -  146.6 I think
                                         132 LB FT

Now that seems OK but when you compare that to a couple of the 2's which had the pre-cats removed plus chipped, the max I saw was 145BHP not sure about the torque.

On the che yes you pay for what you get, I'm removing mine and having a purpose made manifold, see my post in group buy. Then I'm fitting the SP de-cat pipe along with a Apexi Power FC unit, if I can get up to 160BHP and a significant increase in torque, I will be very happy.

Rob

I have the Unichip along with TRD panel filter, gutted precats, H&S inlet and twin exhaust. The HP was 144.5 but the torque was a lot higher that yours at 144 Lb ft. This is the main advantage of the Unichip; much improved torque   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[Anonymous]

Heath

What was your torque line like on the graph, although I was only 128, it ran from 2500 RPM through 6300RPM in a straight line, it would have been nice to see someone have the Che with a Unichip dyno'd.

I've just priced up the Power FC £395 from Japan Thor want £350 for fitting and mapping, how much is the unichip fitted?

Thanks
Rob

[loadswine]

Those are good figures Heath, must be the US map that makes a difference. When you see that sort of torque from na, it makes a lot of sense to go for a Unichip. Mine always felt like it was well up on torque from stock.

[northernalex]

Heath

What was your torque line like on the graph, although I was only 128, it ran from 2500 RPM through 6300RPM in a straight line, it would have been nice to see someone have the Che with a Unichip dyno'd.

I've just priced up the Power FC £395 from Japan Thor want £350 for fitting and mapping, how much is the unichip fitted?

Thanks
Rob

I'm sure you can fit the power FC youself (it just plugs in if i'm correct) there are apparantly lots of maps out there on spyderchat, I've been told Tem is a bit of a god with the power fc.

[Anonymous]

I'm not sure Alex, when I spoke to Thor they were unsure as the majority of the cars they've mapped were MRS not UK spec, but then again you are replacing the ECU completely so I suppose it's not a problem, the only area that they would need to check is the plug to ensure they are compatable.

It reccommends the mapping to be done once fitted to the car, to be honest I would prefer to see what it's doing on a rolling road and have it set-up to suit the fuel etc.