Turbos and ecu's some help please

DAZ400 · November 1, 2003, 19:22

I have an 02 Red SMT Roadster, and I have looked at a choice of about 3 Turbos, I have had now fitted an Apexi Turbo made for them by IHI. I was impressed by the quality however there was problems Apexi negglected to mention that the intercooler will hit the neumatic bits of the SMT box !!!!. I also wanted an Apexi ECU to go with it. I had the turbo fitted by Japspeed who done a fantastic job. We had to move the battery from the engine bay and all new pipework was fabricated to suit the relocation of the intercooler the whole fittment took 35 hours. But was finished to a very high level of craftmanship. However there was a second problem some SMT functions and feedback are tied into the engine ECU which means it cannot just be substituted. So I am now thinking of having a Unichip fitted to overcome this problem does anyone have any experience of this. Also am I correct in thinking Toyota themselves are going to make a Turbo Roadster. Has anyone else fitted a turbo or changed ECU in SMT roadster and have they had any problems or advice for me. PS just now found this forum I will be here all night reading....... s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

markiii · November 1, 2003, 19:34

check out posts by MPH who has turboed his SMT.

then ask anything that doesn't answer. that should help.

mph · November 1, 2003, 20:02

Interesting you went for the A'PEXi. What made you choose that over the others though?

I've had dealing with Japspeed myself, right when they first started up. Very good and friendly firm - I'm not surprised you've got positive feedback to report about them.

Have a thorough read of what I've posted thus far. I too had problems with the SMT initially have I have that resolved.

Just to confirm are you using *any* engine management at the mo? I would strongly suggest not driving it anywhere until you do...

DAZ400 · November 1, 2003, 20:16

I thought A'pexi had a good name and it came recomended. I do not currently have any engine management except stock ECU so she does'nt run that well at the moment hence my urgency to resolve this with possably a Unichip. s:oops: :oops: s:oops:

Anonymous · November 2, 2003, 10:15

Am i reading this right, you've also got nitrous on your car aswell?

DAZ400 · November 2, 2003, 10:26

I have of sorts it is not completly installed yet as I was waiting for Turbo to be fitted. What ECU mods did you do for your turbo ? s:D

s:D

Anonymous · November 2, 2003, 10:40

Firstly if you've not finished the install then i'd stop now. The power you'll get from the turbo will test the internals enough the NOS WILL DESTROY them.When you get the turbo running right you'll see what i mean about power.If you don't get an ECU soon to add more fuel and retard ignition the engine will be knocking like crazy.Prevention is easier than the cure.Have you got any internal engine work done?

I'm running a greddy e-manage but on a MT.This and the unichip do a similar job, as with anything there could be an discussion to which is the better........... but it's the e-manage s:wink: :wink: s:wink: (jk).

As MPH has said don't use the car until your sorted, well if you have to use it keep off going into boost (however hard that'll be).

Anonymous · November 2, 2003, 13:14

I wouldn't worry about the NOs as Simon (at Japspeed) is an expert in this - he will probably be using it to complement the FI as he has in his own 140 Celica. If anyone wants to explore Japspeed, check out any feedback you can find on w www.celica-club.co.uk w - I wouldn't expect to find anything but positive.

DAZ400 · November 2, 2003, 13:29

I am not worried about the nos you are correct Simon has a Celica same enging as Roadster he has skimmed the head added supercharger and nos and it runs fine. These engines are buit well and can take quite alot of punishment before they get upset. s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

mph · November 2, 2003, 19:45

Quote from: "DAZ400"These engines are buit well and can take quite alot of punishment before they get upset. s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

I wouldn't bet on it. The engine simply isn't designed nor built for FI. I suggest you take one step at a time; for a start without decent engine management you'll have a melted block in no time. Don't bother thinking about NOS until you've got the turbo & fueling under proper control, that is unless you want to waste an awful lot of time and money.

DAZ400 · November 2, 2003, 19:55

I have no intention of using NOS yet I am not even using car except for essential journeys until I get ECU sorted. I will be on the phone tommorow finging someone to install and tune Unichip controller. I will run this setup for a while before I play with the NOS. s8)

s8)

mph · November 2, 2003, 22:11

Quote from: "DAZ400"I have no intention of using NOS yet I am not even using car except for essential journeys until I get ECU sorted. I will be on the phone tommorow finging someone to install and tune Unichip controller. I will run this setup for a while before I play with the NOS. s8) s8)

Only place to go - Millway 01264 336344.

LeeUK · November 3, 2003, 18:47

I'm very interested in knowing what power output you get from the turbo once the chip is fitted. How much was the kit fully fitted?

Did the battery have to be removed because it's a SMT or does it have to be removed on all roadsters? (Mine is a manual 6-speed) s:D

s:D

markiii · November 3, 2003, 19:06

Martin and I have debated this one for a while.

The unichip is a cracking piece of kit, and pretty much the only way to go (unless you want an s-afc, though good luck finding someone who can tune it in the UK) for an SMT. There are other options for a manual car, but I personally doubt that they would be as costs effective. Martin reckons were it a manual he would go for a different ecu. But I reckon you'll only see the big benefits of going for a complete standalone unit if going turbo. and I still have plans to see what can be done NA yet.

I think a long chat with millway will be on the cards when I get to that point.

If you want the unichip though there is really only one place to go and thats Millway, the ONLY place with demonstrable gains on both an NA and turbo car using this. Worth the drive wherever you are.

Avoid like the plague these people who claim they can re-programme our ECU, it's not a golf, it's not that easy.

DAZ400 · November 3, 2003, 19:08

As there was a number of unforseen problems this was a worst case. The cost was over £4K because of all the new mods and pipework that was needed. However there is two factors.

1. If you have SMT then the intercooler won't fit where it is suposed to go because of the neumatics on the gearbox.

2. The intercooler also hits the battery as well as the air intake pipe this is because the Jap versions have a different shape battery to the european model.

So labour cost for all the changes adds up. However I now have a bespoke system which position wise where the intake power filter and intercooler are I think is superior to the origonal positions If peaple request I will put a couple of pictures up. s:roll: :roll: s:roll:

markiii · November 3, 2003, 19:11

we do, pics please.

can you take a shot of teh battery as well. I'm surprised it's different.

LeeUK · November 3, 2003, 19:15

Yes i'd like to see some pics of the car. I think if i do eventually go turbo i'll do the fitting myself and save some dosh!

Anonymous · November 3, 2003, 19:17

I'd like to see piccy's please. s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Can i ask why they didn't do any management system for you? Have you had any luck in finding somewhere to fit one?

DAZ400 · November 3, 2003, 19:22

From my discussions with lots of people today Unichip is ok but not great, yes it can be made to work with adding another injector but it does not control the timing but actually modifys the crank angle input and adds extra fuel with the 5th injector.

If you have a manual them Buy an A'pexi power FC £750 replace your stock ecu go and get some time on RR and your away.

Motec is a prefered option and comes in 2 flavous the £900 or £2k this will control the timing and stock Injectors however there is some debate wheather it will control the VVT with the cheaper unit should have some more answers this week. A drawback with the Motec is they all say it could take 2 days of RR time to tune which seems alot to me.

Come January and there will be another option from Omex the 7000 which will control timing VVT etc more details soon. s:P

s:P

Anonymous · November 4, 2003, 08:35

What power increase will you get from an Apexi Power Fc, Will you get performance from direcrt replacement or will you have to tune it?

Are they simple to fit?

I've heard you get a lot more power than an exhaust and induction kit put together!

mph · November 4, 2003, 09:14

There's no one in this country that is skilled in tuning a PowerFC, there's no tuning software available and no support from the manufacturer - don't bother with it.

For NA & turbo(SMT) applications, a fully programmable piggyback (Unichip/eManage) is the way to go - search this site for my quantitive posts on the subject. Only turbo(manual) need consider a full replacement ECU, in which case Omex or Motec should be your only sensible choices.

Anonymous · November 4, 2003, 09:21

So if you could just replace your ecu with the apexi and you could use the commander just for viewing info!!

Surely this will give you more torque and better performace and then even more if you could get someone to tune it!!

A/C works fine with apexi too as it's a straight swap, heard you can have difficulties with others!

Anonymous · November 4, 2003, 09:31

You could. It does come with base maps too...BUT....the commander is a programmer, it would be one expensive viewer,and it wouldn't give you anymore power unless it was specifically tuned to your car, where the problem will be as it's just not used over here so no-one can tune it,well properly anyway.

A piggyback system, i'm afraid in this country is the best option.

DAZ400 · November 4, 2003, 11:07

OOPs need to sort this out

Anonymous · November 4, 2003, 11:11

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you need to get some hosting...I think one of the members can do this for you