SP 240

Anonymous · January 22, 2007, 21:59

ive asked the guys before at MWR

i was just checking old emails and they recommended low compression wiseco pistons and crower rods! they said that would allow me to run a higher boost assuming the tuning and injectors were set up for it!

Anonymous · January 22, 2007, 22:24

In all this you've got to remember that Toyota took quite a considerable time developing the turbo set up for the 2. There's obviously a limit to the engines capabilities, who knows where that is, but I've a good idea that the TTET was conservatively developed because of that limit.
I'd also like to know if the original 3 year turbo warranty is uneffected by the SP240 upgrade s:?: :?: s:?: And for those of you still under the manufacturers 3 year warranty which is honoured under the original TTET package will there be any difference in Toyota's stance s:?: :?: s:?:

loadswine · January 23, 2007, 08:54

Quote from: "Ekona"They can, but for how long reliably no-one really knows. Considering that each engine is very different in terms of just what it can take, there may be one engine that falls over on 220bhp after a couple of months but another that lives with 280bhp for years.

Spot on Dan, that is what I was getting at. I think the odd person on SC has had an engine go after a time, but can't remember their exact circumstances. Some people are quite happy to go for big numbers and when the engine blows drop out the engine and rebuild it.
That won't suit everyone.
I know that the engine isn't going to blow straight away, its just a matter of how long it lasts. I suppose Toyota builds a fairly robust lump in the first place to actually go down the route of an official conversion.
We won't know the answers to the longevity versus power issue until a more miles and more turbos have been done.
SP are confident in the 240 set up and don't doubt it, especially as they have achieved the numbers without cranking up the boost. The kit obviously has potential for more, but how brave do owners want to be?

Where do the limits of the chassis lie also?

philster_d · January 23, 2007, 15:28

[/darth]The 1zz is strong *breathes*[/enddarth]

*edit*

Quotewithout cranking up the boost.[/endquote]

Maybe, not sure they know what boost they are setting themselfs even
*/edit*

loadswine · January 23, 2007, 15:32

If you're going to use The Force Phil, that's cheating! s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

philster_d · January 23, 2007, 15:47

Well then maybe its this.....

the 1zz is "potentialy" strong.

It depends what your starting with, I was lucky a low miles incredible conditions and already a strong car. I virtualy could keep up with the turbo's to some extent already.

So then based on a good car as a starting point. (Obviously I wouldnt recomend turboing a failing or faltering engine anyway)

Follow on options....

a) plug and play system

I didnt check my engine dont know what im working with or what I am building on ? its not mapped or tuned for my specific car and mods (even my cars personality and behaviour) but a lower power output to be sure its not blowing anything.

b) mapped and tested

The engine has been tuned to perform under various conditions it has had monitoring of boost and knock throughout the process so you are getting a certain amount of guarantee from it, ("there is no knocking at 12psi" - for example) The mixture is monitored with a wideband and all this info can go back into the tune.

------

So to sum up I dont think all turbo's will go bang in time or at some predefined power level, yes if you just blindly piled on the power. But that would be foly without gauges and monitoring.

I dont feel out there on the edge I know my engine is sound. Does everyone with a turbo kit ? I guess not.

Silverstone Performance · January 24, 2007, 22:19

To pick up on DavidM's points, warranty is indeed affected by the 240 package. The TTE parts in themselves are effectively not affected but the warranty on the engine is invalidated. That said, we have deliberately stuck with the TTE stock boost pressures and worked specifically with air flow (in and out) and fuel to achieve safe (albeit outside the realms of Toyota standards) performance gains. Going beyond 240 is eminently possible but the laws of diminishing returns set in (especially if we are to keep our "safety margin").

Anonymous · January 24, 2007, 22:34

ok then?!

did you ever consider uping the stock boost levels though?!

what could the gains be then?

Silverstone Performance · January 24, 2007, 23:25

Quote from: "bossman23780"did you ever consider uping the stock boost levels though?!

what could the gains be then?

Of course but: Price vs performance vs reliability. As per the other thread running, anything is possible. Another 10ftlb and 20-30bhp would be relatively easy to achieve but we don't have confidence about longevity (theoretical calculations, determine that we are at the safe limit for this capacity of engine) so we won't go further and put our name to it without changing internals. Ultimately, 400+bhp is possible but you have cooling issues (oil and water), valve issues, con rod (and poss) crank strength issues, driveline strength issues and other potential problems I'm sure. We could theoretically put together a "stage 3" package but the market is so small that it doesn't make commercial sense.

Anonymous · January 24, 2007, 23:40

Quote from: "Silverstone Performance"
Quote from: "bossman23780"did you ever consider uping the stock boost levels though?!

what could the gains be then?

Of course but: Price vs performance vs reliability. As per the other thread running, anything is possible. Another 10ftlb and 20-30bhp would be relatively easy to achieve but we don't have confidence about longevity (theoretical calculations, determine that we are at the safe limit for this capacity of engine) so we won't go further and put our name to it without changing internals. Ultimately, 400+bhp is possible but you have cooling issues (oil and water), valve issues, con rod (and poss) crank strength issues, driveline strength issues and other potential problems I'm sure. We could theoretically put together a "stage 3" package but the market is so small that it doesn't make commercial sense.

you mention all those internal changes but im not wanting to push 400bhp

i personally would want just enough to push under the 4.5 sec barrier

Anonymous · January 25, 2007, 10:12

Get some decent tyres on an SP240 and you'd get very close to it, providing it does do 4.9secs as said.

Anonymous · January 25, 2007, 10:17

Road legal? or track?

markiii · January 25, 2007, 11:35

Quote from: "simonmr2"He is going to tune it to what the engine will take so it should be arround that mark or a little more as I remember him saying that my engine was stronger that there car when I got the TTET fitted. I think anything arround that mark with the tourque figures will be enough.

For now. s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted: s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:

this is going to be interesting seeing as how Matt has just mentioned that no extra Piggyback is used on teh SP240, I'm not seeing how it can be tuned persee?

muffdan · January 25, 2007, 12:03

Hm, a piggyback is used but maybe it replaces the TTET piggyback, rather than piggyback the piggyback? I don't actually know which.

TommyD · January 25, 2007, 12:12

SP's ecu replaces the TTET one on the SP240, allowing them to map it to the new injectors and fuel pressure.

markiii · January 25, 2007, 15:21

aha

that makes more sense

Silverstone Performance · January 27, 2007, 16:48

Quote from: "bossman23780"[
you mention all those internal changes but I'm not wanting to push 400bhp

i personally would want just enough to push under the 4.5 sec barrier

To go further you need to increase boost. If you increase boost, you increase piston crown temperatures beyond the limit of cast pistons (this is the theory, by the way), you could deal with this by introducing oil jets or forged pistons (or both), or a bigger/better intercooler. To increase boost you're going to need a boost controller and if you're going to change the pistons you're going to need to open the engine in which case the upcost of changing rods as well is relatively low. If you do that you're as well to shoot as high as you can but you'd probably want to uprate the radiator and introduce an oil cooler. To get "a bit more" than the SP240 package with an IC upgrade is realistic but to get below 4.5 secs 0-60 you need more than 300bhp (based on our TVR experience) which would definitely require most of the enhancements I've mentioned.

Anonymous · January 27, 2007, 21:31

Quote from: "Silverstone Performance"
Quote from: "bossman23780"[
you mention all those internal changes but I'm not wanting to push 400bhp

i personally would want just enough to push under the 4.5 sec barrier

To go further you need to increase boost. If you increase boost, you increase piston crown temperatures beyond the limit of cast pistons (this is the theory, by the way), you could deal with this by introducing oil jets or forged pistons (or both), or a bigger/better intercooler. To increase boost you're going to need a boost controller and if you're going to change the pistons you're going to need to open the engine in which case the upcost of changing rods as well is relatively low. If you do that you're as well to shoot as high as you can but you'd probably want to uprate the radiator and introduce an oil cooler. To get "a bit more" than the SP240 package with an IC upgrade is realistic but to get below 4.5 secs 0-60 you need more than 300bhp (based on our TVR experience) which would definitely require most of the enhancements I've mentioned.

so then what youre saying is, aswell as the mods needed for the SP240, i would need :

Pistons required
Rods recommended
Boost Controller required
Intercooler recommended
Radiator recommened
Oil Cooler recommended

i already got an upgrade on the radiator but would that be sufficant, its the C-One radiator and i thought these cars had oil coolers already or has it but it would just need upgrading?! so i wouldnt need any other engine parts then like cams, springs, valves .. etc

Anonymous · January 27, 2007, 23:40

Just got in from my return from SP after getting stage II fitted. Totally awesome. At first I didn't think there was a lot of difference in that and TTET but once you get the chance to really boot it and rev the nuts of it, it really is superb. It now pulls to the red lin in every gear which I can say is so fast it is scary. The TTET is fast but this is super fast, I still haven't really got a chance to push it hard but what I have done has been awesome.

I have lots of pic's but am to tired to upload them will do it tomorrow including the dyno graph. It came out at 237bhp and 242lbf of tourque which as Matt has said was not the most powerfull map but is set up to be conservative as I don't want my enging to go pop.

Anonymous · January 27, 2007, 23:43

Great news!

yes, some pictures would be great! i would very much like to see what the engine bay looks like now, to see how much difference there is!

Anonymous · January 27, 2007, 23:46

Not much difference just a big induction kit. s:wink: :wink: s:wink: Will sort it out tomorrow

Anonymous · January 27, 2007, 23:50

Still though i am very jealous!! s:mrgreen: :mrgreen: s:mrgreen:

Anonymous · January 30, 2007, 01:24

Quote from: "simonmr2"Just got in from my return from SP after getting stage II fitted. Totally awesome. At first I didn't think there was a lot of difference in that and TTET but once you get the chance to really boot it and rev the nuts of it, it really is superb. It now pulls to the red lin in every gear which I can say is so fast it is scary. The TTET is fast but this is super fast, I still haven't really got a chance to push it hard but what I have done has been awesome.

s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted: 'Tis fun innit? Good to see you at the weekend Simon!

I spotted our SP240 on a bit of YouTube footage - it's launching from the lights next to a 4 litre TVR Chimaera and a 5 litre TVR Griffith. The camera car is an Audi RS4.

The moment to look for is at 1:23 s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
m http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U821jnd40w m

Anonymous · January 30, 2007, 03:22

Yeah good to see you to Phill and you and Alan were really funy taking the piss out of the GT2 cars. Hope to have some footage of you making a fool out of them.

Anonymous · January 30, 2007, 11:07

I have had a chance to upload some of the pic's from the Stage II install last week.

Before picture taken at 7.30 after a long drive.

The work in progress for SP. Working on the Lotus supercharger.

The exhaust and decat pipe are on.

The old clutch has still a bit of life but it was changed for a exedy clutch. Which is harsh but I am getting used to it now.The clutch was sliping in 3rd and 4th so it had to go.

Oh it's red and clean. Bling.

It's on the dyno at WRC and the guys are doing the tune. I had never saw this being done and it was amazing but very loud and cold. The 2 guys from weltmeister that did the dyno really know there stuff.

The TTET power came out at 178bhp and 220lbf torque. Torque figure is wrong and I was told why but I really didn't understand it. But the bhp was about what I was expecting. Stage II came out at 237 bhp and 242 lbf of tourque.

The car is finished for now. I really do love the SP wheels and they really do help with the traction as well as the looks.