tte turbo boost

Anonymous · January 18, 2007, 17:43

Leeber, if I were you I'd take the car back to SP and get a boost plot and lambda plot on the dyno. I can think of no reason why the power should drop off and then suddenly return right at the end of the rev-range unless there was an issue with the car that needed resolving.

I'm not saying that there's anything drastically wrong with the car or the install, but that's definitely not right in my eyes.

firepower · January 18, 2007, 21:10

i would expect that the dyno should look like the graph that sp have on thier web site for the sp stage one turbo

Anonymous · January 18, 2007, 21:13

Quote from: "Leeber"

are they good figures then for an SMT TTET?

spit · January 18, 2007, 21:17

(Lee sold his SMT and bought a low mileage manual bossman)

Anonymous · January 18, 2007, 21:19

s:oops: :oops: s:oops: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

actually out of all the TTE cars on here who has a SMT? if anyone has?

do we know?!

firepower · January 18, 2007, 21:27

sp exhaust system finally arrived today just fitted it , straight foward to fit and looks well made sounds well too should have given the car a slight bhp boost s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

Anonymous · January 18, 2007, 21:31

DYNO! DYNO! DYNO! DYNO! DYNO! s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

firepower · January 18, 2007, 21:33

I NO, I NO, I NO s:)

s:)

Gazz · January 19, 2007, 14:21

That torque plot is totally different to mine. Yours peaks at 213 @ 4500 revs and immediately starts to drop, mine peaks at 213 @3300 revs and stays fairly constant until it starts to dip at just over 4500 revs

http://www.mr2roc.org/Repository/misc/pictures/dynoextravaganza25112006/gazz.jpg

TommyD · January 19, 2007, 14:35

There is also a nice constant power climb to 6500 revs with no strange dip like the other 2 - why aren't these consistant?

markiii · January 19, 2007, 15:12

firstly bear in mind that no single tune runs perfectly on every car.

thats why in an ideal world you map to teh car

also Gazz has teh stock cat and TT exhaust both leeber and Liz had teh SP downpipe and backbox combo

TommyD · January 19, 2007, 15:30

Oh the joys of turbo. Actually looking at those plots again Gazz and Liz have fairly similar curves to redline, Liz's plot has a different scale. Leebers looks a little strange with the dip in power. In an ideal world individual mapping would be great - unfortunately not with the TTET unless you use a new piggy back like SP have with the 240.

Leeber · January 19, 2007, 17:48

Hmmm... looking at those plots and that on SP's website mine does seem to stand out a bit. The torque seems to be a bit low at 3500 rpm and both bhp and torque tail off a lot more dramatically at the top end. I'm wondering whether there are other factors at play here. My engine is pretty much brand new (1790 miles at install), the dyno was done straight after the install, they literally lowered the ramp, drove the car around the two roundabouts at silverstone and then reversed it onto the dyno where it was switched off and left for about 30 mins before doing the dyno run. I wonder if the ECU would have needed a little more time to adapt? Would the fact that the engine was pretty cold have made a difference? The car threw a CEL on the way to work the next day, which seems to have gone since I replaced the third (borrowed) o2 sensor with a new one. I dropped in on Stu today and he very kindly used his OBD reader to confirm that there were no unflagged faults registering (before taking me for a spin in his beast of a motor). The car's driving well so I suspect that the next dyno would probably tell a different story, I guess I'll just have to wait and see.

loadswine · January 19, 2007, 19:10

The newness could well have an effect on the figures. ( just had a go in Stu's car as well and it IS a beast.) s8)

s8)

heathstimpson · January 19, 2007, 21:46

Quote from: "loadswine"The newness could well have an effect on the figures. ( just had a go in Stu's car as well and it IS a beast.) s8) s8)

Oh yes an engine needs to loosen up to achieve its full potential, and this can take quite a few thousand miles to say the least.

kanujunkie · January 19, 2007, 22:09

Quote from: "heathstimpson"
Quote from: "loadswine"The newness could well have an effect on the figures. ( just had a go in Stu's car as well and it IS a beast.) s8) s8)
Oh yes an engine needs to loosen up to achieve its full potential, and this can take quite a few thousand miles to say the least.

plus 12psi s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:

god i've got to get it mapped!, still running rich

anyway isn't this a TTET thread? B.O.T.

Silverstone Performance · January 21, 2007, 22:21

I would also draw your attention to the permissible boost range (from the data sheet in a previous post of Liz's) - there's a fair old tolerance so a reasonable variation from curve to curve is to be expected. All dyno plots we've seen have the same general shape but the gradients do indeed vary.

As regards a follow up to Liz's car issues...

We and Toyota Motorsport GmbH have always maintained that the TTE Turbo kit is a "plug and play" system applicable to standard NA MR2 Roadster cars. The installation procedure does not specify or require dyno diagnostics of exhaust gas and/or boost pressure.

In developing bolt on upgrades (e.g. the SP exhaust system) we sought to retain the P&P characteristics. With the induction kit we discovered that the air fuel mixture was adversely affected therefore it did not meet this criteria. Because of these findings we are concerned that the Markiii inlet pipe may impact in a similar way therefore we do not recommend the use of this pipe.

In the case of Liz's car, there was a lambda sensor fault which between us we didn't do the best job of fixing!! But with the new lambda working normally the engine is running as we would expect. The AFR we saw still appears weak but we know that the reading will read low due to the 3rd lambda boss height and we suspect the Markiii inlet pipe will also have had an impact.

The bottom line? If the engine is in good order before the install then the TTET installation is completely safe with or without SP exhaust. We will however pay more attention to other accessories that may be fitted to a car when being booked for a conversion. And, to be honest, with Liz's car we jumped the gun slightly because of the information she gave us about the lambda sensor (but that's our fault not hers) so we've learnt a lesson there too!

philster_d · January 22, 2007, 00:39

The inlet pipe only feeds air and that is the lifeblood of the turbo. Isnt it measured by the engine (at the maf) and matched by the fueling ?

In my set up I know i want more air not less for sure.

What AFR sensor type are you using on your prototyping and diagnostic runs ?

Anonymous · January 22, 2007, 09:43

Quote from: "Silverstone Performance"In developing bolt on upgrades (e.g. the SP exhaust system) we sought to retain the P&P characteristics. With the induction kit we discovered that the air fuel mixture was adversely affected therefore it did not meet this criteria. Because of these findings we are concerned that the Markiii inlet pipe may impact in a similar way therefore we do not recommend the use of this pipe.

Hi Matt

That is a strong statement to make with regard to the Markiii inlet pipe, I think you need to clarify what you mean, is this for all cars including N/A or are you just talking TTE turbo'd cars.

You must also remember that TRD sell the same up-grade for the 2, at a considerable cost s:shock: :shock: s:shock: so that would indicate that this is a worth while modification.

I would aggree with Phil the more air available to compress the less the turbo has to work to get the same performance. Not that I'm any expert or in fact I'm interested in putting a turbo on my car.

This is just a observation which I would be interested to hear your response on.

Thanks
Rob

markiii · January 22, 2007, 09:49

what I don't quite follow is that the turbo will provide boost levels consistent with what teh wastegate is setup for.

it can't under or overboost as a result of less/more restriction in teh inlet tract.

so if teh kit is set up for 7psi and it only runs 7psi due to teh wastegate, how can it then run lean due to induction changes? As teh fuel MAP will still be capable of giving enough fuel?

Anonymous · January 22, 2007, 09:51

totally agree with both points...

more air = only wastegate pressure anyway, MAF records all air passing it anyway.

how does that cause the car to run lean?

filcee · January 22, 2007, 09:53

Quote from: "bossman23780"are they good figures then for an SMT TTET?

There's no reason why they should be any different - it is the same basic engine in there. The main difference is the addition of a leprechaun to work the gears.

ISTR that the TTE demonstrator that featured at the last JAE at Billing Aquadrome was an SMT. I don't recall ever seeing a dyno plot for it though.

markiii · January 22, 2007, 09:58

Quote from: "perry190"totally agree with both points...

more air = only wastegate pressure anyway, MAF records all air passing it anyway.

how does that cause the car to run lean?

I guess if teh MAF was reading more air than teh injectors could fuel for, or more than teh fuel MAP in teh ECU has been programmed for the hypothetically this coudl result.

however as teh Turbo has fuel MAPs and injectors that can cope with 7PSI I don't see how it can be an issue eitehr on or off boost?

realy curious to see the reasoning behind this?

Leeber · January 22, 2007, 10:14

Quote from: "perry190"totally agree with both points...

more air = only wastegate pressure anyway, MAF records all air passing it anyway.

how does that cause the car to run lean?

If this holds true though, wouldn't that suggest that there's absolutely no benefit fom having the duct fitted anyway?

Just to play devil's advocate.

markiii · January 22, 2007, 10:23

commenting on your comment to Perry comment only here.

if teh MAF sees more air it adds more fuel, and hence more power.