Roadster Problems....long post (try not to fall asleep)

Anonymous · November 5, 2003, 23:11

I have posted this on spyderchat.com already, sorry if anyone reads it twice.

I was wondering if anyone can give me some advice. I have had a whole range of problems with my 2000 roadster. It started a couple of months ago; my engine management light came on. I took it immediately to a Toyota garage and they diagnosed the problem as a faulty O2 censor. The downside of this was that the car didn't rev over about 3.5k. It also took ages to get up to 40mph, with a max speed (on a downhill run) of about 60mph. By this time it was also due its 50,000 mile service. I took it to a garage other than my usual one because it was more convenient. When I picked my car up they told me that it didn't look like the spark plugs (40,000 mile service) or the air filter (30,000 mile service) hadn't been changed.

I returned to my usual garage and they (quite honestly) told be that a set of spark plugs or an air filter had not been charge out to my car. They also promised to do my next service for free. I also got them to replace the fault O2 censors.

After that was done I was looking forward to getting my car back again. But as you can probably get it didn't happen. I got it back but almost instantly the same problem came back. So back I went to the garage they attached the computer to the car and it said the 3rd O2 censor was faults now. This censor is inside the exhaust. The problem was that there where none in the country, so one was ordered from Japan. This took about 6 weeks to arrive. Once the part finally arrived my car was in the body shop getting some work done (thanks Mr idiot lorry driver for changing lanes without looking!), so it made sense that they fit the part at the same time. Just as I was about to pick my car up I was told that they hadn't managed to fit the part because it was sent back to Toyota by mistake!

After a fair bit of pushing they took my car back and gave me a courtesy car. They got the O2 censor back and fitted it to the car, but it still hasn't fixed the problem. The engine management light doesn't come on any more but it still won't rev over 3.5k. They have told be that the timing is off and fitted another set of spark plugs, but still no joy. They want to keep my car and get the foreman to have a look at it but they want their car back which will leave me stuck for transport.

I don't want to name either garage yet as the one you currently has the car is being helpful but overall the service I have received from Toyota is appalling. Not that it will make any difference but I can safely say I will NEVER buy another Toyota again. In fact I am thinking about just selling this one before it gets fixed and buying another car. The problem is I just don't know what to do from here on in. Any suggestions on how I should proceed?

Thanks in advance

Anonymous · November 5, 2003, 23:20

Now im no engine expert and only going on what ive heard, but aint 3.5k revs about when the VVTI is meant to kick in....? If so, this could be part of the problem.. but like i said, im no expert.

mph · November 5, 2003, 23:42

Quote from: "krisclarkuk"...but aint 3.5k revs about when the VVTI is meant to kick in....?

Nope, VVTi kicks in at approx 4.5k.

VVTi relies heavily on oil pressure, and the ECU won't switch it if isn't happy. Still that doesn't sound like that's the case here.

My suggestion would be to get a diagnostic done on the MAF sensor, and then monitoring the MAF values while trying to rev the engine.

That the timing is 'off' I find very unlikely.

Regarding the O2 sensors, I would recommend undoing the final CAT from the exhaust and check for signs of damage.

HTH.

Anonymous · November 6, 2003, 08:16

my mistake s:oops: :oops: s:oops:

Comer · November 6, 2003, 09:30

Didn't Buster have a similar problem which was diagnosed as a problem as one of the injectors playing up???

GSB · November 6, 2003, 09:33

This is sounding a bit like Tems current situation... s:shock: :shock: s:shock:

Tem · November 6, 2003, 11:06

Quote from: "GSB"This is sounding a bit like Tems current situation... s:shock: :shock: s:shock:

I didn't wanna say that out loud s:oops: :oops: s:oops:

I never got a CEL though...

Roachy, have you checked your oil lately?

Anonymous · November 6, 2003, 13:04

My oil has been going down quickly. It was full on my 50,000 mile service, after about 1000 miles it was 3/4 of the way down the level.

Tem · November 6, 2003, 13:11

Quote from: "roachy"My oil has been going down quickly.

s:(

s:(

Have you read this?

m http://www.mr2roc.org/viewtopic.php?t=1250 m

GSB · November 6, 2003, 13:23

Roachy, I'm afraid to say I fear the worst for your engine, my advice to you would be to search Spyderchats archives and read everything you can regarding pre-cat failure, and blown engines. Essentially what it sounds like is your pre-cats (in the exhaust manifold) have collapsed, and are now disintegtrating. The bits will be blocking your exhaust, hence you cannot rev, and generally causing havoc with the internals of your engine. The backpressure will cause oil consumption to go through the roof, and your piston rings will fail. In all probability the engines bearings will take a hammering too, especially if the oil level gets to low.

In short, if you dont have a warranty or extended warranty, get one now because in liklihood the repair bill will make your eyes water...

Sorry to have to break it to you so bluntly, but from what you describe, it sounds like the likliest scenario... s:(

s:(

Anonymous · November 6, 2003, 13:55

If you are in the garage ask them to pull the O2 sensors above the pre-cats and have look into the top of the pre-cats. This is an easy job with the right tool and will quickly show if there is damage to the pre-cats or if they are still there at all. As silly as it seems they may not have checked this when replacing the faulty sensor.

There are pics on Spyderchat or when I get home tonight I can post you pics of where and what to look for.

L

Anonymous · November 6, 2003, 14:46

How sure are we that these engine failures are initiated by pre-cat failure?

I ask because as an owner of a still-healthy, but out-of-warranty Roadster, if losing the precats will preserve my engine, then I know the next mod I'm gonna be doing. Whether it's a TRD or PPE header (or even a custom job from someone like H&S), or even a large screwdriver to gut the stock header, if it'll help, then I'll do it.

GSB · November 6, 2003, 15:05

As far as I've read, no-ones yet sure if the pre-cats initiate the problem, or weather the slightly oversize bore/piston ring blowby problem seen on some early engines goes first. Its hard to say because cats do have an annoying habit of collapsing all of a sudden and blocking exhausts on all cars, (usually my ones s:? :? s:? ) and oil contamination only makes them do it quicker.

I would hazard a guess though, that if the pre-cats werent there to start with, then the catastrophic failures seen thus far wouldn't occur. There would still be failures, but of the more gradual type where you'd lose compression, burn oil, and eventually need a re-bore and new rings. Nothing your average mechanic cant cope with...

Certainly as soon as I can get my hands on a second hand manifold (WD?) I'll be cutting the two precats out and replacing them with some nice, engine friendly, steel pipe.

Anonymous · November 6, 2003, 15:29

Quote from: "Comer"Didn't Buster have a similar problem which was diagnosed as a problem as one of the injectors playing up???

Yeah it dose sound very like what i had.

just ask them to look at the injectors it's normally the 3rd injector it took my garage around a full day to suss it out so save them time and you money by telling them you may know what it is s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

Anonymous · November 6, 2003, 15:48

Just had a call from the garage, they reckon the VVTi controller is broken. Another one has been ordered.

GSB · November 6, 2003, 16:00

Quote from: "roachy"Just had a call from the garage, they reckon the VVTi controller is broken. Another one has been ordered.

Lucky git! Lets hope thats the last of it for you!

mph · November 6, 2003, 16:47

Quote from: "roachy"Just had a call from the garage, they reckon the VVTi controller is broken. Another one has been ordered.

Not convinced, but I'll be happy to be proved wrong!

Anonymous · November 6, 2003, 16:52

Nor am i... thats what i said and i know nothing about nothing s:crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: s:crazyeyes:

s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

Peter Laborne · November 6, 2003, 16:53

Quote from: "mph"but I'll be happy to be proved wrong!

I think most of us would be happy for you to be proved wrong for once Martin!!!! s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

Anonymous · November 8, 2003, 09:09

I am not getting too excited just yet. I will see what happens next week when I get the car back. I just want my car back and running well again. It was getting well embarrissing only being able to go 40 MPH. People would get behind me at traffic lights assuming I was going to shoot off. Only for me to pootle along at a very slow pace. I was even overtaken by a micra once!

Slacey · November 8, 2003, 09:14

Quote from: "roachy"I was even overtaken by a micra once!

I was smoked by a Micra on the way down to the Summer Mids meet, it's embarrasing, isn't it! s:oops: :oops: s:oops: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

Anonymous · November 8, 2003, 10:05

It is when your car isn't restricted to 3000rpm and 40mph.

Renault Clio is most embarrasing here, but I reckon it was debadged 172.

Hope the car comes back sorted.

Anonymous · November 13, 2003, 22:58

Well I just spoke to the garage again. They have replaced the VVTi controller and said for some reason oil pressure is building up way to high in the engine. They asked me if my sump had ever been removed, as it looks like it has been resealed.

My car has only ever been to two garages and both of them have said they have checked the warranty database and have no record of it being removed. Well I sure as hell didn't do it! The current garage is being good, and keeping me informed and they are speaking to Toyota technical tomorrow.

The only time I can remember any work being done on my car that may have caused to sump to be removed is about 18-24mnts ago, when it went into the current garage for an oil problem. It was fixed, but I was told it was my fault and had to pay £400 for the pleasure. The trouble is the garage has changed hands since then and they have no access to the records to see if the sump was actually removed.

This is going from bad to worse. I have to rent a car at the moment and it had better all be covered by my warranty.

Thanks for all the replies.

Tem · November 14, 2003, 06:38

Quote from: "roachy"They have replaced the VVTi controller and said for some reason oil pressure is building up way to high in the engine.

Did you ever ask them to check the precats? What did they say?

Assuming every garage must have an O2 socket, it only takes a minute or so. Just remove the O2 sensor(s) and look through the holes.

Anonymous · November 15, 2003, 10:39

Quote from: "TemDid you ever ask them to check the precats? What did they say?

Assuming every garage must have an O2 socket, it only takes a minute or so. Just remove the O2 sensor(s) and look through the holes.

Yea, they said they where OK. I will ask them to check again though.