Think my pre-cats have knackered my engine?

[Anonymous]

 s:cry: :cry: s:cry:  Oh dear, to put it mildly...

Symptoms so far, Since bought privately in September 06 the oil consumption has been a little over what you'd call normal - judging by some of the articles on here, I tried magnatec before I found this website, now use mobil 1.
Then - Friday 16th March, couple of mishaps accelerating in 2nd gear on way home from work, a slight delay before anything happened after I'd put my foot down.
Saturday 17th March, on a 16 mile drive I started to notice that the car really just didn't want to accelerate anywhere throughout the gears, after around 3000 rpm - the engine got louder when I put my foot down and made a clicking sound somewhat like it was being restricted. I checked the oil and it was fairly low, like about 1mm above the L on the dip-stick... yeah I know, I should never have let that happen, but I'm getting married in a couple of weeks and have neglected my poor car.
Yesterday (Sunday 18th) I topped up the oil and when I started up it seemed fine. It'll rev OK in neutral. I took it for a drive, which turned out to be very short as when I tried to accelerate now I got big clouds of blue-ish smoke which really made me cringe.

From reading several articles on here I'm gueesing the precats have gone and fouled up everything they possibly could.

I limped to the nearest garage (NOT Mr T) I could this morning along with as much info about precat failure and other peoples problems as I could get off here.

  s:?: :?: s:?:  Anyone got any words of wisdom/encouragement to make me feel better about my poorly 2? Or is it all doom and gloom??? (Don't worry I can take the bad news if that's all you've got for me, it's all I'm expecting)

Will update when I hear from the garage...

[Anonymous]

 s:( s:(

Time to start looking for a 2nd hand engine, I fear.

 s:( s:(

[Anonymous]

Cheers!  s:cry: :cry: s:cry:  guessing as much...

how's the best way to go about that? I may as well start now as wait for the garage to tell me.

I've borrowed my mum's Pug 106 1.1 Zest to get me to work and it accelerates almost as quick as my 2 at the moment, without the blue smoke. The brakes on it are like 6" sponges though, nothing happens 'til the last inch which is quite scary. Hope nothing runs out in front of me.

[Tem]

Anyone got any words of wisdom/encouragement to make me feel better

Used engines are fairly cheap...

I'm sorry, but that's the best I can come up with.  s:? :? s:?

[Anonymous]

I just got the phone call from the garage. He said one of the precats has disintegrated and got lodged in the main cat. He's fairly confident the engine isn't damaged (This is good news if he's correct - but do you think it's actually possible I've escaped engine damage?)  s:? :? s:?  

He's going to get back to me on a price for gutting the existing precats and fitting a new/second-hand main cat... How much should I pay for this without getting ripped off?

Anyone know where I can get a main cat cheap or recommend an alternative to the original? (do these have another name that I can search for? I'm not overly mechanically minded sorry, can understand stuff but don't have the facilities/time/ability to do anything about it)

Thanks for the encouragement so far!!!

[Anonymous]

It's possible you got lucky, but you'll never know until it's too late (big oil consumption is almost always a sign of damage, though).

You should be able to find a main cat from a breaker's yard if you're lucky, or maybe a member on here who has put a de-cat pipe in place could have one spare: Check the sales sections. As far as an alternative goes, you could always buy any 200 cell cat and get a pipe fabricated for it so that it sits in instead of the stock one, but I'm not sure this would be any cheaper.

[Tem]

I just got the phone call from the garage. He said one of the precats has disintegrated and got lodged in the main cat. He's fairly confident the engine isn't damaged (This is good news if he's correct - but do you think it's actually possible I've escaped engine damage?)  s:? :? s:?

Lets hope you got lucky.  s8) s8)


But TBH, I don't think so. It doesn't happen so that a big piece just falls off and gets stuck. It starts by smaller pieces flying off and into the intake and that's what kills the engine. After it breaks off enough, bigger chunks will fall off and eventually block the main cat.


I drove for 1000km with blocked cat on a healthy engine. It feels like you have massive torque till 4000rpm or so, more than stock, but then it dies totally. No loss of oil or smoke though, nor any strange sounds. They all point to scraped cylinder walls I'm afraid.  s:? :? s:?


But if the main cat got blocked, you'll need a new one anyway, so might as well start with it and hope for the best.  s8) s8)

[Anonymous]

I hope I got lucky too!  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

I'll go with the main cat and gutting the pre-cats for now and hope for the best... Any idea's on price I should be paying for this???

But, if it continues to use lots of oil I guess the cylinder walls are scraped. Can't I then just get them fixed, re-lined or something??? or is it def a new engine job???

Thanks again for your help so far.

[SimonC_Here]

Toyota tend to replace the short block rather than the whole engine but I don't think you'll have any joy getting part of an engine for much less than a whole one.

Simon

[darrenjuggins]

Hi Gav,

Sorry to hear your troubles....

You don't mention the age of the car or mileage or where it's been serviced.

You "might" be able to go to Mr T if its under 5 years old and fully serviced, they have look favorably on poor owners in the past.

Just a thought, but obviously not knowing the age or service history, it's only a possible suggestion.

As the other have said, the fact that the car is eating oil would suggest you have suffered from the oval bore syndrome, thus killing the precats and then the main cat.  Therefore I would suspect you need quite a few parts or new engine to be on your way again, the only good news is Mr T has exactly the right list of parts you need, the bad news is, the charges if you paid yourself add up to about   s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  £8k   s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  .

Hope you get things sorted.

Regards
Darren J

[Tem]

But, if it continues to use lots of oil I guess the cylinder walls are scraped. Can't I then just get them fixed, re-lined or something??? or is it def a new engine job???

Sure you can, it's just cheaper to buy a new engine.  s;) s;)

It's not just the cylinder walls that get damaged. The precat material makes it past the pistons and into the oil and then it pretty much "ports" every path where the oil goes to.  s:? :? s:?

[Anonymous]

Thanks guys!

It's 2001 Y, (sure it says that in my signature). 38000miles, no service history, service book and owner's manual 'lost' by previous owner apparently - silly of me to buy a car with no history I know! (where can I get an owner's manual by the way?)

So, as you can see, Mr T wouldn't look too kindly on me...

Mr T quoted my garage £630 + VAT for a new main (underfloor) cat.   s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  
The garage has found a new one for £447 + VAT. Ouch!  s:( s:(  

I'm getting married in two weeks and can't afford those prices so have done web search for breakers... Found a few, best one so far is 2002 34,000 miles for £135 + VAT, delivered. Any advice on buying from breakers as I've never done it before?

Just one more thing before i buy, in searching I saw ceramic ones and steel ones, which is it I need for mine? anyone know the correct part number?  s:? :? s:?  

Cheers

[Wabbitkilla]

A tad expensive.....

You could get a Hi-Flow cat from PPE for cheaper...

Linky to PPE

[Anonymous]

Hi mate
Sorry to hear your bad news.  s:cry: :cry: s:cry:  

I have also suffered pre cat damage, but i think i am one of the lucky ones and my car is still running happely. it uses more oil,but still within Toyotas limits aparently.

My simptoms were exactly as you describe.
I gutted the remaining pre cat, blew the whole manafold section out with a high pressure line and replaced the main cat (was lucky someone was braking a car on ebay and only wanted £100)
The whole job only took about 2 hours and i'm a right numpty  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  

Just another side of the story to try and cheer you up  s:D s:D

[Anonymous]

where can I get an owner's manual by the way?)

I have one for sale, see here:  m http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB2/viewtopic. ... highlight= m

minus service history book though, but all else is there.

Richie.

PS with regards to your problems, it is my opinion that the oil usage on your car occurred before the precats failed and was probably the cause of their degradation.  I therefore think the damage has been done to your engine but the replacement of the main cat and gutting the precats should restore power allbeit there will probably be heavy oil use and eventual big end damage so i would suggest (if you can afford it) to replace the engine now rather than having to replace it and another cat in a month or 2.

Hope thats some help to you.

[Graeme]

Sorry to hear the bad news mate, one of mine went on boxing day, dosen't seem to be using too much oil now, although certainly more than before.

When I was looking for a second hand cat, there were two people on here trying to sell me theirs. One was enid_b (I bought his one), but I think it was Leon who was also trying to sell me his. might be worth PMing him.

Hope you get it sorted at not too much expense

Graeme

[Anonymous]

im sure leons is sold.

[Chris_h]

Sorry to hear your problems Gav - from a fellow NOrthwicher, when you get it fixed, you'll have to join us on a NW meet.

Sorry to be the beared of bad news, but I think if your car needs a new main cat, this is only half the story. The symptoms you describe (smoke, lousy running, noises) are symptomatic of engine probs. Cat failure on its own just makes the engine weasy and impossible to get to high revs - its a bit like shoving a banana up the exhaust.

PS - I am no expert, so there may be hope!


It is worth contacting Mr T as there is a tiny chance your car has been serviced properly and it would be on their records. Just call up Oakmere in northwich and see if they have any records on the Mr T service computer.

If it has a long MOT, would it be worth getting hold of a CAT BYPASS pipe - you would soon realise if there was still a major engine issue and it would be a lot cheaper. If all was OK after a few months, you could fork out for a CAT and flog the bypass pipe on EBAY.

Hope it fixes

Chris

[rtbiscuit]

or get a universal sports cat welded into the pipe.

what ever the situation, you should avoid driving it until mr T can take a look!

[Chris_h]

I'm thinking that a cat bypass avoids the prospect of demolishing another cat.

It would be galling to spend £400+ and realise it doesn't fix the problem AND knackers the new car   s:( s:(  

Or you could just bung it in the Queensferry car auctions.

[Tem]

One more choice is to go to your nearest muffler/exhaust shop and have them replace the cat with anything that fits. I'm talking about cutting it off and welding a new one in. It was some £50 when I had it done over here.

Oh and someone is just selling a whole new (=used) engine over at SC for $400, about £200.  s;) s;)  Can't get that to UK in a hurry though, or the shipping charges will kill you.

[Anonymous]

Thanks all for your words of wisdom.

If I had the time to shop around I would but I'm going away for three weeks very soon (wedding/honeymoon abroad) and need my car back on the road as quick as poss at whatever cost.

I'm taking the risk and just having the precats gutted and fitting a 19,000 mile '04 main cat that I got from a breakers for £188 delivered, tad expensive but I really am in a hurry and didn't know you could get new ones for not much more - live and learn - when MrT quoted £630 + VAT for the main cat and the garage could get one for £430+Vat I thought £188 was a bargain!

So, the cat arrives wednesday, precats being gutted as we speak - although the bolts sheared off and the garage is charging me for the time it takes to drill them out... 5 hrs @£40/hr for the precats - not too chuffed about that but have too much else on to be bothered arguing now, plus, he's working on my car so i don't want to upset him!!! Whilst it's there I'm also having a major service done and tracking sorted, was a bit shaky at about 60-70mph.

All-in I think it's gonna set me back approx £700 inc VAT - but I'll barter once the work's done and I'm happy with it. Luckily I get my annual bonus in April which more than covers this. phew!

I'll let you know how I get on with post-op oil consumption when I've had chance to drive it around for a bit...

[enid_b]

So, the cat arrives wednesday, precats being gutted as we speak - although the bolts sheared off and the garage is charging me for the time it takes to drill them out... 5 hrs @£40/hr for the precats - not too chuffed

im in the wrong business

[Chris_h]

Maybe we should set up a precattery shop.

Does MI5 not pay so well these days?

[enid_b]

Chris, I've offered to help you with your precats b4 mate.  Just say when.
FOC of course.

And, as i understand it, MI5 has never paid well.  It laughable really, being a spy for £12000 a year.  You dont even get a watch that fires a laser, nor a toaster that doubles up as a satellite phone/trouser press.