Project run Wabbit run ... probably not 56k friendly

Started by Wabbitkilla, May 27, 2007, 18:54

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Wabbitkilla

#100
April 21, 2008, 22:45 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Wabbitkilla
Quote from: "FGRob"Hey Nic welcome to the club  s:D :D s:D    s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  I thought you already had a different fly wheel.

What did they say about the torque, can it be improved with a different manifold / cams etc ?????

Rob

I was too taken aback to talk about that side.
But he said to keep in touch and we can look at what's the next stage.
They do a fair amount of fabrication, they developed the engine and twin turbo setup for the Noble M12 so they are pretty handy. They even have a Ford V6 sat in the entrance with twin turboes mounted - just for display.

I love the sound now even more because it is bearable. Thing is, i wouldn't want to sacrifice it now for a wheel in the pipe (Turbo  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  ). Maybe cams, maybe supercharger, if anyone ever produces one that is "mount and forget".
Cute & fluffy animals were definitely hurt during the production of this post, there're plenty more where they came from
Aztec Bronze S2 Elise 111S
Campovolo Grey Abarth 595 Competizione

Anonymous

#101
April 22, 2008, 08:11 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Anonymous
Mine did the same when it was re-mapped - the engine sound is correct for the power / speed you are travelling at - if you know what I mean.  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

In otherwords you have it tuned to your set-up and that's why your exhaust sound is better - this is what makes the PFC so much better than a piggy back.

Enjoy.

Rob

Wabbitkilla

#102
April 22, 2008, 09:52 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Wabbitkilla
Quote from: "FGRob"Mine did the same when it was re-mapped - the engine sound is correct for the power / speed you are travelling at - if you know what I mean.  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

In otherwords you have it tuned to your set-up and that's why your exhaust sound is better - this is what makes the PFC so much better than a piggy back.

Can't agree more Rob - when you think of all that wasted energy in noise!   s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  

Oh, forgot to mention - engine idles beautifully OPEN LOOP, much better than closed loop on the OEM ecu.
Cute & fluffy animals were definitely hurt during the production of this post, there're plenty more where they came from
Aztec Bronze S2 Elise 111S
Campovolo Grey Abarth 595 Competizione

aaronjb

#103
April 22, 2008, 10:34 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by aaronjb
Good graphs  s:) :) s:)

Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"Oh, forgot to mention - engine idles beautifully OPEN LOOP, much better than closed loop on the OEM ecu.

So they leave O2 feedback turned off full-time, then?
[size=85]2001 Vauxhall Omega 3.2V6 Elite / 2003 BMW M3 Convertible / Dax 427 (in build)
ex-2002 MR2 TopSecret Turbo Roadster[/size]

Wabbitkilla

#104
April 22, 2008, 10:46 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Wabbitkilla
Yup   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Cute & fluffy animals were definitely hurt during the production of this post, there're plenty more where they came from
Aztec Bronze S2 Elise 111S
Campovolo Grey Abarth 595 Competizione

aaronjb

#105
April 22, 2008, 10:51 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by aaronjb
Interesting - any ideas why?  Do they tune only with the base map and ignore the Inj map, perhaps? (Which would break O2 feedback)

Otherwise I can't see why you'd want it off - it only affects cells where the Inj Map specifies a stoic air/fuel ratio.
[size=85]2001 Vauxhall Omega 3.2V6 Elite / 2003 BMW M3 Convertible / Dax 427 (in build)
ex-2002 MR2 TopSecret Turbo Roadster[/size]

Wabbitkilla

#106
April 22, 2008, 11:34 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Wabbitkilla
They're running tick over at a little rich, it's so the engine is prepared for acceleration. Works too, little chance of stalling unless you're particularly ham-footed, and down changes are smoother too.

Don't ask me how they did it, they were in a separate room out of view (but you could hear him working) and i'm a bit of a novice when it comes to the PFC. I believe he set it up using his AFR wideband, or lambda and left it at that. AFR does vary a little on tick-over, but revs stay stable. So it looks like closed loop is trimming, but it's definitely turned off. Velly intelesting!

I just can't get over how smooth it all is, wonderful!
Cute & fluffy animals were definitely hurt during the production of this post, there're plenty more where they came from
Aztec Bronze S2 Elise 111S
Campovolo Grey Abarth 595 Competizione

aaronjb

#107
April 22, 2008, 11:38 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by aaronjb
Ahh - interesting, mine likes to idle around 13:1, too, rather than 14.7:1 (where it's very lumpy) - not very good for trying to pass an MOT, unfortunately!

The AFR will swing a little if you have "Idle-IG Cntrl" enabled as this will try and maintain a stable idle through changing the ignition advance (and changing the ignition advance will alter the apparent AFR in the exhaust stream).  I have that turned off at the moment, because it's nigh on impossible to set the idle AFR with it turned on (because two things are always making adjustments to the AFR) - and I'll turn it back on once I'm done.
[size=85]2001 Vauxhall Omega 3.2V6 Elite / 2003 BMW M3 Convertible / Dax 427 (in build)
ex-2002 MR2 TopSecret Turbo Roadster[/size]

northernalex

#108
April 22, 2008, 13:14 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by northernalex
Hmm, Nic after seeing your mods listed again I have similar

PPE intake (which is the A'pexi)
De-cat manifold
Downpipe (H+S)
Cat Back (H+S)

So PFC/Zero manifold/Modified throttle body?

And I should get similar figures?  

Actually, sod it, I'll just get it painted RED. Red cars are faster anyway arnt they?  s:) :) s:)

Alex
evileye_xc said:
"I already saw it. I\'m hoping to gain the record for the \'Person who is most quoted in signatures"

Wabbitkilla

#109
April 22, 2008, 13:56 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Wabbitkilla
I tell you Alex I wouldn't believe the PFC was this good - you have to experience it to realise it is worth the extra money over the Greddy stuff.

Of course EVERYONE knows all cars are faster in red   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

It would be interesting to see the difference on paper between the PPE and Apexi intakes - just remember my flywheel   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Cute & fluffy animals were definitely hurt during the production of this post, there're plenty more where they came from
Aztec Bronze S2 Elise 111S
Campovolo Grey Abarth 595 Competizione

DannyN

#110
April 22, 2008, 14:01 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by DannyN
PFC =   s8) 8) s8)  

Great figures Nic (both sets   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  )

Welcome to the PFC club
Quote from: \"DannyN\"There are 10 types of people in the world,
Those who understand Binary and those that don\'t...

[size=75]Black 51 165 BHP - Hardtop ON - Teins - Apexi Power FC - AEM Induction (Cleaned) - Crower Cams - Forged Pistons - Iridium Plugs - Zero Manifold - SP Downpipe - H&S - TRD SS - Corkys MSMB - Goodridge - \'03 Vents - Devs - Bamas - Crystal Indies - Mongos.
[/size]

northernalex

#111
April 22, 2008, 15:15 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by northernalex
Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"I tell you Alex I wouldn't believe the PFC was this good - you have to experience it to realise it is worth the extra money over the Greddy stuff.

Of course EVERYONE knows all cars are faster in red   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

It would be interesting to see the difference on paper between the PPE and Apexi intakes - just remember my flywheel   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

SHould the flywheel make any difference to the bhp/torque?

Now I need to start sourcing bits  s:) :) s:)
evileye_xc said:
"I already saw it. I\'m hoping to gain the record for the \'Person who is most quoted in signatures"

Wabbitkilla

#112
April 22, 2008, 15:24 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Wabbitkilla
The flywheel affects torque - i.e. it reduces torque to achieve quicker rpm achievement. It allows for slicker gear changes.

The free running rev response is akin to revving a bike engine, very quick changes in engine speed.
Cute & fluffy animals were definitely hurt during the production of this post, there're plenty more where they came from
Aztec Bronze S2 Elise 111S
Campovolo Grey Abarth 595 Competizione

Anonymous

#113
April 22, 2008, 15:34 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Anonymous
Nic

What do you think the torque would have been with a normal flywheel??

I suppose the question is what do you want, grunt / pull out of a corner or a faster responding engine with lower torque.

But saying that I have noticed that my engine does respond a lot quicker with the C-one damper on it and the cam noise is pure music  s:D :D s:D    s:D :D s:D  

What's your average knocks so far Nic ???

Rob

northernalex

#114
April 22, 2008, 16:37 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by northernalex
Hmm..

On my last dyno with the greddy emanage I got a peak torque of around 135 which is the same value as Nics with the PFC and the lightened flywheel.

Think I prefer the "grunt" myself (certainly lost lots of it when I've put my car back to stock ish for the mot)

Alex
evileye_xc said:
"I already saw it. I\'m hoping to gain the record for the \'Person who is most quoted in signatures"

Anonymous

#115
April 22, 2008, 16:49 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Anonymous
If you come on the 17th you should be able to try both cars for comparison or even 3 cars if Danny comes as well. I think Danny's running about 153 ftlbs and I'm running about 150 ftlbs - I think we need your timing skills and a long stretch of road   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:     s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

Rob.

Chris_h

#116
April 22, 2008, 19:20 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Chris_h
Quote from: "FGRob"If you come on the 17th you should be able to try both cars for comparison or even 3 cars if Danny comes as well. I think Danny's running about 153 ftlbs and I'm running about 150 ftlbs - I think we need your timing skills and a long stretch of road   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:     s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

Rob.

And my completely dull, standard, low mileage car will be a fine 'control' for the sample.

Great work Nic, you must be thrilled. Are you no longer an asbo at idle?
ex 02 Black, 00 Silver, 53 Black, 03 in silver - then s2000, civic type r, mini jcw, civic type r, Alfa Brera, z4 si coupe, now m135i. Still miss the 2 and will have another one someday....

Wabbitkilla

#117
April 22, 2008, 19:30 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Wabbitkilla
Quote from: "FGRob"What's your average knocks so far Nic ???

Rob

Tell me how to check and i'll have a look on the commander. I'm just scared of touching it when it's running so well.

I was surprised when exiting a swooping roundabout and rising up to the M56 the slingshot sensation was funny. Might not have the torque of you guys on paper but she is bloody quick!
Cute & fluffy animals were definitely hurt during the production of this post, there're plenty more where they came from
Aztec Bronze S2 Elise 111S
Campovolo Grey Abarth 595 Competizione

DannyN

#118
April 22, 2008, 19:33 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by DannyN
Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"
Quote from: "FGRob"What's your average knocks so far Nic ???

Rob

Tell me how to check and i'll have a look on the commander. I'm just scared of touching it when it's running so well.

I was surprised when exiting a swooping roundabout and rising up to the M56 the slingshot sensation was funny. Might not have the torque of you guys on paper but she is bloody quick!

Easier to describe over the phone mate and you can only do it whilst the car is running.
It gives you a maximum knock value since you started the car - once you add it to the list of things to view on the commander

give me a call, you've still got my number
Quote from: \"DannyN\"There are 10 types of people in the world,
Those who understand Binary and those that don\'t...

[size=75]Black 51 165 BHP - Hardtop ON - Teins - Apexi Power FC - AEM Induction (Cleaned) - Crower Cams - Forged Pistons - Iridium Plugs - Zero Manifold - SP Downpipe - H&S - TRD SS - Corkys MSMB - Goodridge - \'03 Vents - Devs - Bamas - Crystal Indies - Mongos.
[/size]

Anonymous

#119
April 22, 2008, 19:43 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Anonymous
I have got a full english manual for it if you want a copy Nic.

DannyN

#120
April 22, 2008, 19:52 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by DannyN
Right I'm sat in the car now
press prev a couple of times til you get back to the front screen that just says

monitor
settings
etc.

highlight monitor and then press next

highlight how many channels (signals) you want to monitor (I usually have 4) then press next

use up and down to get to the number you want to edit (lets do 1 first)

highlight the number and press right (it should highlight the word as well now)  use up and down to move the number and the highlight section to the channel (signal) you want to monitor.  Then press left to select it

then press next and it will appear on the list


EDIT*  Nic called just as I was finishing typing this but I'd got that far I couldnt delete it
Quote from: \"DannyN\"There are 10 types of people in the world,
Those who understand Binary and those that don\'t...

[size=75]Black 51 165 BHP - Hardtop ON - Teins - Apexi Power FC - AEM Induction (Cleaned) - Crower Cams - Forged Pistons - Iridium Plugs - Zero Manifold - SP Downpipe - H&S - TRD SS - Corkys MSMB - Goodridge - \'03 Vents - Devs - Bamas - Crystal Indies - Mongos.
[/size]

Wabbitkilla

#121
April 22, 2008, 20:31 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Wabbitkilla
Cheers for the advice Danny, i've been for a half hour dash, mix of hilly roads and steady Kipton bypass. Knock reached 30 and no more. max intake temperate 30c, but went between 25c and 30c. Easily launching off the top of rises going up hill  s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
Cute & fluffy animals were definitely hurt during the production of this post, there're plenty more where they came from
Aztec Bronze S2 Elise 111S
Campovolo Grey Abarth 595 Competizione

DannyN

#122
April 22, 2008, 20:34 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by DannyN
Always a pleasure mate - have fun   s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:    s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:  

You might have missed Rob's comment (last one on the previous page) but he has a full english version of the instruction manual
Quote from: \"DannyN\"There are 10 types of people in the world,
Those who understand Binary and those that don\'t...

[size=75]Black 51 165 BHP - Hardtop ON - Teins - Apexi Power FC - AEM Induction (Cleaned) - Crower Cams - Forged Pistons - Iridium Plugs - Zero Manifold - SP Downpipe - H&S - TRD SS - Corkys MSMB - Goodridge - \'03 Vents - Devs - Bamas - Crystal Indies - Mongos.
[/size]

enid_b

#123
April 22, 2008, 22:07 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by enid_b
Quote from: "Chris_h"And my completely dull, standard, low mileage car will be a fine 'control' for the sample.


see chris, i always knew you had the purist in you too !!!!


nice to see the progress is still coming with this little puppy nick, i wanna hear this new subdued noise, hell i even want to ride in it.


J
Ex \'51 Roadster, now  Verso SR !!! the official MR2ROC support vehicle.
Quote from: \"markiii to deej\"the difference will be because your old plugs were fubared

a bloke with a flint would likely have been an improvement

Chris

#124
April 22, 2008, 23:55 Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00 by Chris
hmm sounds like an impressive setup you've got going on there Nic..

I might have to reconsider the whole flywheel and TB thing...   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
[size=100]
2004 Maroon Lotus Elise 111R[/size]
[size=80]Ex 2004 Red 6sp MT TTE Turbo
Ex 2003 Astral Black 6sp SMT
Ex 2002 Lagoon Blue 5sp MT
[/size]
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