Project run Wabbit run ... probably not 56k friendly

[ex-member]

How do you find the janspeed mate? Noise/throttle response etc?

I was thinking of getting one at some point...

[Wabbitkilla]

Uh ... loud   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

Erm, it is pretty loud, but mainly for people following you.
You can drive quietly if you're not too keen on the throttle, but you're just pootling along then.
Under load / acceleration is when it's at it's loudest, and cruising at around 80mph / 3200-3300rpm you get a subtle "hhhooooooooooooooooo" like an F1 car - very amusing when going through tunnels   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[custardavenger]

 m http://media.putfile.com/Supercharged-MR2-Dyno m

Like this but without the wooshing  s:D s:D

[ex-member]

Arggg dynos scare me....they have only ever given me BAD news!

[custardavenger]

The thing is with dynos, the truth is a bitter pill to swallow.

[Wabbitkilla]

The thing is with dynos, the truth is a bitter pill to swallow.

Not in my case   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[Wabbitkilla]

Just a wee update...

Crower Stage I cams are now in my hands waiting for a suitable time to fit.
Zero exhaust manifold is on order (but he's been suspiciously quiet, i better check up on progress there).

Then just waiting for adequate finances to fit it all and go back to Noble for a re-map.  s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:

[DannyN]

Enjoy   s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:

[Wabbitkilla]

So an update after a long time.

As you know I bought a set of Crower Stage1 cams from SJSpitz.
Plus i'm concerned about not having a catalyst for MOT.

Soooo....

I bought a high flow catalyst (metalic foil type) 200Cell/metre squared.

So i had that welded into the Janspeed exhaust in place of the resonator box.
I've fitted a Zero manifold (which eventually turned up).
I've fitted the stage1 cams, courtesey of the Spitstop - many thanks to Ste and Danny.
And today i've been to Noble

[Anonymous]

Beautiful curves Nic, nice one!  s:D s:D

Is that 170 or 169 on the power side? And please tell me you haven't lost that awesome noise by fitting the cat?

[Anonymous]

Hey Nic - Welcome to the club  s:D s:D    s:D s:D  You beat me by 0.4 BHP   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

What I don't understand is the torque differences, your set-up is almost identical now yet the torque curve is very different, did Noble say why, I'll post my graph if you want and you will see what I mean. Do you think its because of mileage or could it be different engine design with the later model??

The main thing is enjoy it, they are great when they are on full song  s:D s:D    s:D s:D  

Rob.

[Wabbitkilla]

Exhaust tone is now different and noist   s:cry: :cry: s:cry:  

I'm thinking torque is down because the exhaust is too free flowing., but at least i pass emissions mow! Talked to them about the next stage... they seam to be hopeful for further increases from that.

TBH he and i are not that impressed by the Crowers. Msybe you need to take a leap to Stage2 to get a decent response!

[Anonymous]

Exhaust tone is now different and noist   s:cry: :cry: s:cry:  

I'm thinking torque is down because the exhaust is too free flowing., but at least i pass emissions mow! Talked to them about the next stage... they seam to be hopeful for further increases from that.

TBH he and i are not that impressed by the Crowers. Msybe you need to take a leap to Stage2 to get a decent response!

I'm not going any further with mine, I thought about stage 2 but you would need head work to really get the most out of them and I don't think the cost is worth it. Do you really think the exhaust is losing you torque, even with the new cat in place, I thought it would have gone up. You seem to be missing the kick at 4500 rpm.

[DannyN]

Congrats Nic on getting the most powerful N/A car in the club. Most powerful PROVEN car should I say    s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[custardavenger]

Lol

[Anonymous]

You can tell who your ex-mates are  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[DannyN]

sorry   s:oops: :oops: s:oops:

[Anonymous]

sorry   s:oops: :oops: s:oops:

Group hug   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[evileye_wrx]

Bah! A january dyno run for Rob will sort his signature out.

Well done Nic on your figures. Next up it must be Danny's turn to remap and break the N/A record again

Phil

[ChrisGB]

I'm thinking torque is down because the exhaust is too free flowing., but at least i pass emissions mow! Talked to them about the next stage... they seam to be hopeful for further increases from that.

TBH he and i are not that impressed by the Crowers. Msybe you need to take a leap to Stage2 to get a decent response!

My first though is that your PFC was originally set up for no cat, different manifold and cams, so cam timing could do with a tweak in the midrange. You are making less torque through the mid than I am with a relatively torque light 4 into 1 manifold with no cat. The too free flowing thing is unlikely.

Stage 2 cams will need the head to come off as you need to uprate the valve springs and possibly the collets. No idea how high the stock bottom end can be revved, but from memory the stage 2s work up around 7500rpm.

Chris

[Wabbitkilla]

The thought occurred to me afterwards about the head coming off, so maybe not stage2 cams then   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  . So i only have 0ne trick left and that's going to take a fair bit of development.

[Anonymous]

Ok then why the difference in performance, the only difference between the two engines is external stuff - the exhaust, from the manifold back, as Nic is now running a Zero and the induction system, I'm running a standard airbox with a Markiii pipe plus a modified induction pipe from the TB to airbox (Samco large elbow and an alloy straight pipe) and this is the results:

 

I think what you have said Chris makes me totally confused now,  s:? :? s:?    s:? :? s:?   is it something to do with the revised pistons on the later model car, this was mentioned at Hypersport when the car was first dyno'd after the PFC and cams were fitted - compared to Danny set-up that is. Could it be age related, my cars only done 16500 miles not sure what Nic as done, it would be good to understand this because it will give people a better idea of what mods really does benefit the cars.

I hope you don't mind this post Nic, please feel free to remove it if you think it's too far off topic.

Thanks
Rob

[Anonymous]

The thought occurred to me afterwards about the head coming off, so maybe not stage2 cams then   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  . So i only have 0ne trick left and that's going to take a fair bit of development.

Hypersport could actually fit a stage 2, they had a device that filled the chamber with compressed air which then allowed the springs to be removed without removing the head - it's a pity they've gone.

I'd still want some porting done to really benefit the mod so it becomes an expensive mod, plus you will have a lumpy car during tickover as the cams are not so smooth in the lower RPM.

[muffdan]

For what it's worth the Crower Stage 2 FI cams still run smooth at tick over.

[ChrisGB]

Ok then why the difference in performance, the only difference between the two engines is external stuff - the exhaust, from the manifold back, as Nic is now running a Zero and the induction system, I'm running a standard airbox with a Markiii pipe plus a modified induction pipe from the TB to airbox (Samco large elbow and an alloy straight pipe) and this is the results:.....

I think what you have said Chris makes me totally confused now,  s:? :? s:?    s:? :? s:?   is it something to do with the revised pistons on the later model car, this was mentioned at Hypersport when the car was first dyno'd after the PFC and cams were fitted - compared to Danny set-up that is. Could it be age related, my cars only done 16500 miles not sure what Nic as done, it would be good to understand this because it will give people a better idea of what mods really does benefit the cars.

A bit more explanation. The PFC was originally set up with a Che manifold and no cat. The Che manifold is a fairly long / narrow primary pipe set up. The Zero is a short / wide primary pipe setup with larger secondary entries as well. Running no cat moves the toque peak too as this is effectively running a longer last section of the exhaust manifold. Putting a cat in makes the last pipe shorter in effect.

With the PFC, part of the way the mid range gains are made is by altering the vvti characteristics. The engine in stock form is a strange thing if you are used to "traditional" engines. A traditional non vvti 1.8L engine with this sort of stroke could be tuned to produce quite a strong mid range, but a poor top end. Alternatively, you could aim to go for a good top end (not normally the thing to do with a long stroke motor) but midrange would be poor. What vvti does is allow relatively harsh cams and long durations to be used (which would normally kill midrange and give good top end) but, by altering the amount of valve overlap, still keep the midrange good. We see this on the stock motor. Without vvti, I would expect you could have the 138bhp or the 130lb/ft of torque, but not both. Without vvti, I would guess you would be pegged to around 110lb/ft if you wanted the 138bhp or you could have the 130lb/ft but maybe only 120bhp.

Where the PFC was originally set up, I wonder if the Che manifold and other factors meant that the vvti settings in the mid range were optimised for these parts, which seem optimised for mid range power. Now the Zero manifold and cams are in place, you would need to be very lucky to have a suitable level of valve overlap in the midrange. The Zero manifold also looks more focussed on top end (although the mid is very strong too) I would suggest trying some valve timing adjustment with the PFC.

Something is amiss for sure. I am making more midrange on stock cams and Unichip Q (without vvti wired up) through the PPE 4 into 1 manifold (known for less than spectacular mid range) and on 60,000+ miles. Something else that is a clue is in the sound. When it is all working together, the intake will be subject to a pulse from the exhaust which gives a nice crisp induction noise. If it is sounding a little flat, it could be the inlet valve is closing before or a long way after the exhaust pulse is reaching the inlet tract. If so, you will lose power where this is happening.

Tuning is literally that. Making the whole system "ring" together. Valve timing is very important in this.

Chris