Project run Wabbit run ... probably not 56k friendly

[enid_b]

Innovate AFR input into the eMu for dynamic self mapping

im loving the sound of that nick

J

[Anonymous]

Looks good Nik  s:D s:D  

I didnt realise that you got the down pipe with the Janspeed exhaust too, I was looking at getting one a few months ago, and now that I know you get a down pipe too I think that it has convinced me to get one.

[Chris_h]

Looks great Nic - I can't wait to be following this through Snowdonia   s:D s:D  

Do you think you will have been roaded and mapped before then?

[Wabbitkilla]

Won't be dynoed by the time we go to Wales - too much on at work to get away for a tune up. Also need to find somewhere familiar with eMu tuning.

Forgot to mention, there's a Blitz LM panel filter and iridium plugs to go in too.

A word of caution - don't even consider the TB modification unless you please to run either an e-Manage or PFC, the standard ECU just cannae take any more cap'n  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:

[Anonymous]

Youre a bad man Wabbitkilla!  s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:  

Since reading this i've got a LR TB on the way and now back to thinking about getting the downpipe, im already working on some prices to get this baby tuned up!!

Bad man you!  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[Wabbitkilla]

Well you could still risk it - it might just be my ECU or TB that are not happy together. Another one might behave completely different.

But keep an eye on your mixture, mine gradually got worse but i think it was there all the time. It only became obvious when i fitted the freer flowing Janspeed exhaust. Saying that the engine was still pretty hot, then in warm weather our engines do get quite hot.

The instant throttle response is addictive though  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:   but not THAT addictive on wet slimey corners  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:

[Tem]

A word of caution - don't even consider the TB modification unless you please to run either an e-Manage or PFC, the standard ECU just cannae take any more cap'n  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:

May I disagree?

Basically a bored TB is nothing special. It's just like modifying your intake and exhaust, you allow more air to enter the engine more easily. As long as you keep your MAF in proper sized pipe and have no leaks, there should be no issues.

Yes, I do have a bored TB myself.  s8) s8)


Now...I'm only guessing here, but personally I believe that when you first put the ecu in a given car, it learns stuff that varies a little. Like the min and max voltages of the TPS sensor. If you change that sensor, like you probably did when you installed the bored TB, it might be different enough so that the ecu doesn't recognize the limits. It happened to me, with the new TB, the ecu never saw a voltage that it considered to be a closed throttle plate...and so it never cut the fuel, which the driver sees as a lack of engine braking or at least a very weak engine braking.

My cure was simple enough. Just reset the PFC, there's an option for it. And let it relearn the idles and whatever, including the TPS min&max positions. After that I have normal engine braking again.



Now I also know that the common understanding is that you can reset the stock ecu by keeping it off power for some minutes. We all know it clears the error codes. But since the thread below, I've always wondered if it does a full reset during that time.
 m http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=49169 m

I've had that same happen to me once after that. When the stock ecu had been off the car for a year or two or so (and the PFC in). It did the same thing, which I can only think of as idle learning. Which it never does after the quick reset, which clears the error codes. Maybe you need to somehow achieve a full reset to the ecu to make it realize the new voltage for a closed throttle plate.


I'm only guessing here, so don't take anything as a fact. It's just a mix of what I've noticed myself...YMMV.  s;) s;)

[spit]

Interesting theory Tem. I suppose it all boils down to how clever the ECU is at learning TPS max and min settings.

It may well have a range of values within which to work before it decides to throw a 'fubarred' CEL, but if you can't definitively tell it "this is Min" or "this is Max", then it won't have the information it needs to trim accordingly.

Nic's problem was just on the cusp of being occasionally OK, so I suspect his closed throttle voltage was slightly outside of any range that the ECU tolerates as acceptable within its learning routine.

But I'm just guessing too ...   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[Wabbitkilla]

I believe you are both actually right - well me too  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

Tem, what you say makes sense, but my standard ECU wouldn't settle down on the bored TB. Yes the voltages from the TPS were different from standard basicall because when comparing the old to the new TB the butterfly sits vertical (90deg) when fully closed, my standard one sits at an angle away from vertical, say 85deg?

Surmising that the TPS is now not within the original range, the voltage is different. Therefore the voltage figure for fully closed will be different from standard. In fact it IS slightly higher than standard, so therefore the theory of over fueling when closed due to different from standard voltage from the TPS i think is correct.

Either way, fitting the eMu and then setting the max/min TPS voltages by learning and applying to the configuration seems to have solved the problem. Also considering the standard ECU goes through a learning cycle when reset, with the eMu in place and setup on standard mapping there is no learning period. It seems as if the eMu controls statically what the standard ECU would normally take time to learn.

So it is working, and i am happy now.
All i need now are my harnesses for MAP and AFR feeding into the eMu option ports. Plus my filter and plugs.

One question though - considering i've been running a bit rich and generating quite a bit of heat, would it be adviseable to change the oil again? I'm running Castrol Edge FS 0w30 so it might be ok.

[Wabbitkilla]

Just been experimenting with the location for the Innovate AFR gauge, what do you guys think?

[Anonymous]

Maxbore is what we honda boys call him. My TB was bored by him. Excellent choice.

[Tem]

One question though - considering i've been running a bit rich and generating quite a bit of heat, would it be adviseable to change the oil again? I'm running Castrol Edge FS 0w30 so it might be ok.

Running rich shouldn't generate heat, quite the opposite, it cools things down. Running stoich is actually when you generate the most heat and leaner or richer cools things down. So I'm sure your oil is fine when it comes to that.  s8) s8)

[Wabbitkilla]

 s:oops: :oops: s:oops:   Thanks Tem, I feel much better now.

[Wabbitkilla]

A little update is in order.

The Che is fitted and i'm loud again - hopefully this noise will calm down. I now sound like a Scooby or a V8, and look a bit like a Boxster. I guess you could call me the Scoobster  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

Finally the bits turned up at Hypersports - don't know what's been going on there, something to do with the orders not coming in on time. Anyway...

Blitz panel filter fitted (the one that came out was a bit, erm, dirty), and Greddy Iridium Racing Spak plugs (sounds fancy, they've got NGK on them, i wonder if pure NGK ones are cheaper?) and the ones that came out - didn't look nice at all, don't get me wrong they were a good colour - just a bit "worn"  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

So next in the game will be to fit the MAP sensor and harness it up to the eMu, and harness the WB into the eMu too. Then i can run a self map before taking it to Hypersports for a spot of Dyno work.

I try and add everything onto the garage when it's done so watch this space. It'll be interesting to see the results as i was producing 141.6bhp at the flywheel with just the Markiii inlet and no precats.

[ChrisGB]

Keep us posted on the results of the tuneup. That exhaust looks excellent.

Regarding the TPS, there is a good chance that the change in throttle angle when the throttle is closed has caused the TPS contacts to run onto the end ramp giving a dead spot where output does not change for the first few degrees. This could cause the engine management to get confused.

Chris

[Wabbitkilla]

No it seems fine, watching it on the e-manage just shows the tps starting lower and ending higher. No dead spots and it shows there's a difference as soon as you touch the pedal. All I need is to add the next bits and get it properly mapped, but in the meantime it's safe.

[Slacey]

I now sound like a Scooby or a V8

Come now Nic  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[Wabbitkilla]

 s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

You've got to hear it to believe it  s:oops: :oops: s:oops:  
Only in the lower revs mind, as soon as you wind them up it's back to "WHAAAAAAAH"  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:

[custardavenger]

Really like the exhaust. Might have to pop into Janspeed to get a quote on a custom job after all.

Any chance you posting a sound bite?

[Wabbitkilla]

Well gents, today saw the Scoobster put on the Dyno for mapping and graphing. To recap, the current N/A spec is;

TRD Lightened Flywheel
Exedy Organic clutch
Maxbore bored and flowed throttle body
Greddy Iridium plugs
Che Manifold
Janspeed exhaust and downpipe
Greddy  e-Manage Ultimate
Innovate LC1+XD16 (connected to eMu)
Castrol Edge 0w30 FS + TRD Oil Filter
Blitz panel filter in original airbox
Markiii inlet elbow.

And so to the results linky

The before was with Markiii and Precats removed done some time ago on a dyno day.
Peak power 141.8bhp@6400rpm, Peak Torque 130lbft@3400rpm.

The after is;
Peak power 147.1bhp@6400rpm, Peak Torque 136lbft@3600rpm

Without tuning the e-Manage the torque was bu@@ered low down and it's still not ideal. Two reasons for this are, the Che flow characteristics (seen this on bikes too), and the lightened flywheel.

[northernalex]

For comparison .. here's what I got from mine from Hypersports tuning

The peak BHP I got was 146.6 HP after the whole tune. Before the tune i had 140.3 HP.

Here's the torque: The legend tells all with the details.  Peak torque is 135 (IIRC)

 
http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5338544

I have:
Standard manifold (precatless - thanks fgrob)
H+S Dual Exhaust
H+S Downpipe
Emanage Blue
Alex inlet pipe
TRD pannel filter
Standard toyota oil
Vpower.

So very similar to Nick's.. however I've got a downpipe! and Nick has a cat. So it looks like the exhaust especially that Nick is running is very impressive!  Good work Nick!

[DannyN]

Dont know if it makes much difference or not Alex but Nick has emanage Ultimate where as you have an emanage blue
Someone with far more knowledge than me should be able to tell us tho
D

[spit]

Someone with far more knowledge than me should be able to tell us though

(BTW, that won't be me  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  )

I believe Nic is going to have a look at the EM-U mapping to see which of its additional features were tweaked, but the bulk of the tune is based on what the EMBlue is already capable of.

[Anonymous]

Guys

Just casting an eye over this post as Nick was over with us today.  His car felt nice and smooth, and gained a bnit more torque which is really nice.

From my experience with the Roadster and the available ECU's that are around is the following:

1) E Manage Blue - Great for moderate tuning, can sort out fuelling well but where the N/A's will gain power is through ignition timing.  The E Manage Blue does not use a crank angle signal so the timing advance is not always that accurate.

2) E Manage Ultimate - Again, great for moderate tuning, with good fuel trimming, and this does use a crank signal for reference so is better than blue for N/A ignition advance, and thus power gains.

3) Apexi Power FC - Why I beleive the PFC is so far superior when getting better torque / power from the N/A's is the ability to optimise the inlet and exhaust cam timing, by allowing the tuner to adjust the overlap etc.

4) V Manage - Not tried yet, but in theory can control inlet / exhaust timing, plus ignition timing and fuelling.
Open to offers, to give it a go !!

Just my tuppence worth  s;-) ;-) s;-)

Thanks Chris

[Wabbitkilla]

Good answers Chris, and worth anyone considering when looking for extra power. A lesson learned is that it's not easy to bolt on power, not cheap either. But i remember watching TV programs about the land speed record and the lengths you have to go to for those extra few mph is incredible.

So for me, thankyou Chris, you worked hard today and although it appears i've been pedalling backwards i'm very happy with the result. I've learned a lot and realise there is a lot more that needs learning to do this kind of thing properly. Which is why we come to you eh  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

I think i'm done for power tweeks this year, next year it looks like it's either turbo charging or maybe a decent holiday  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

One of the things i love about the eMu is its logging features - top noodle and you don't have to have the pc plugged in during logging. V-Manage? Well like both of us thought, it's a bit new and a bit untested - and maybe Turbo is better known and understood.

I'm glad i went with the eMu as i did all the installation myself (ok, you just put plugs in the right places) but i've got to know my car that bit more personally (pity i can't get to know a woman this personally, but hey ho - that's life). I'm happy with the power delivery, it is definitely better than before and now i've checked through the DynoChart, that torque figure is pretty good. I'm sure it's the manifold as i had a bike with a Yoshimura full race system on, lost the majority of torque and ended up with power at the top end - boy was that a screamer.

I've got to say Chris is definitely a top man in my book as he's not really interested in the topline figure, he works to get you a smooth response all the way through the range which is so important for driving in the real world - good on yer Chris  s8) s8)