Am I a victim of precat failure?? *ENGINE SWAP IN PROGRESS*

Anonymous · July 26, 2007, 11:32

DON'T give in. s:!: :!: s:!:
They should realise that the problem is not recent. You could try saying that if Toyota had made the information regarding the oval piston problem more readily available to MR2 owners then you would have taken it to them earlier.
I'm sure Trading Standards would be interested to know that Toyota have recognised a manufacturing defect and aren't making it known to owners until it's too late. Not sure on the legal side of stuff but it certainly seems wrong
You could also try to threaten them with going to national press if they don't fix it for free.
Don't be afraid to play dirty and use heavy handed tactics if you have to, it's a lot of money you're looking to save s:!: :!: s:!:
Good luck

Anonymous · July 26, 2007, 11:59

Just got off the phone to customer services, they said tough s**t basically, the 7 year extended warranty was a good will gesture (youre going to fix my engine that has a known problem causing catastrophic engine failure for which no recall was issued, how very good of you) So ive written them a letter but think I'm wasting my time s:cry: :cry: s:cry:

covered all points mentioned in the letter

neilbro39 · July 26, 2007, 20:03

Took my car to toyota last week as it seems to be using a fair bit of oil. No other symptoms present. They did a Visual Safety Inspection, found no leaks etc. But also said my car is outside the 7 year period for the warranty (registered April 2000). I am not sure yet if I have the engine problem but have used about 2-3 litres of oil in 4000 miles. The service manager said the problem is usually the bottom piston? I asked if it might get worse and he said it shouldn't do if the oil level is kept up and said the problem is usually caused by failure to keep up with servicing schedules(my car has fairly full dealer history). He also said whatever you do don't put any engine flush through as this can cause further problems.
I'm going to monitor this over the coming months and if it gets worse I will have to decide on further options.
It sort of takes the edge off owning what is otherwise a fantastic car and I would seriously recommend anyone looking into ownership to avoid pre 2003 cars (from what I hear improvements were made to the engines on the facelift model?).
It is seriously not worth what appears to be an increasing risk of a blown engine as the car gets older. I can't believe that a manufacturer such as Toyota are having probs with cars in this way. I have a 2000 model RAV4 and it does not use a drop of oil between services.

neilbro39 · July 26, 2007, 20:09

Quote from: "benji106"Just got off the phone to customer services, they said tough s**t basically, the 7 year extended warranty was a good will gesture (youre going to fix my engine that has a known problem causing catastrophic engine failure for which no recall was issued, how very good of you) So ive written them a letter but think I'm wasting my time s:cry: :cry: s:cry:

covered all points mentioned in the letter

Perhaps a group approach might be worthwhile? any thoughts anyone?

tonigmr2 · July 27, 2007, 08:24

Club backed communication with Toyota GB?

T

Anonymous · July 27, 2007, 08:29

Benji - Letters work... to an extent.

My wife's Nissan developed a problem with the gearbox just outside of the 3 year warranty. On the phone I got nothing from them so I wrote a letter saying just how dissapointed I was blah blah blah... They wrote back and offered 33% of the cost as good will.

Try a letter asking for full amount first then if you get nothing try again saying you would at least expect a sizeable contribution to the cost, especially seeing as you're only just outside the warranty.

Neil's suggestion of a group approach sounds liek a good idea. Remember, my car only had 50% service history and they fixed the problem for free - so they've set a precedent on that. That usually works in Law (I think they call it case law!)

Good luck all!

Chris_h · July 27, 2007, 10:51

Its a tough story this one, but I think T are generous enough as it is. Hardly nice to hear if you're looking a t a new engine, but who else even considers replacing a 7 year old engine with patchy SH?

Deff worth kicking up a stink, but as I have said here before, this 7 year warranty is 'good will' not marketed or advertised when the car was purchased new. In my mind, that is incredible goodwill, even though it is a recognised fault. This is also why we keep on buying Toyotas, when things go wrong they do seem to bend over backwards. If you had an Alfa, a dicky VW, Rover K, Pug head gasket, you'd be lucky to get a small % even 1 day after 3 years is up.

Kick up a fuss, you will probably end up with a % (though maybe still cost more than going independent), but lets face it, Toyota have to draw the line on the moneypit MR2 at somepoint...

Anonymous · July 27, 2007, 15:38

Quote from: "Chris_h"but lets face it, Toyota have to draw the line on the moneypit MR2 at somepoint...

So a modern car engine should only be fit for purpose for 7 years?

Sorry Chris i disagree, there is an obvious design fault with the early 1zz engine, whether it be precats or valve seals, Toyota know this, hence the 'goodwill' warranty.

Toyota should have recalled all cars they knew this could affect AS soon as they knew the extent of the problem, that would have been a reputable manufactures course of action.

Instead they have allowed this ticking time bomb to continue, only paying out when someone has the information to ask the right questions when there cars engine goes Jordans only discernible assets up through no fault of there own.

I have made this suggestion before and do so again, if anyone wishes to fight toyota through the courts over this i would be willing to contribute to a fighing fund and hope the majority on here would do so as well.

A .plain and simple fact here, toyota early 1zz engines are not fit for purpose.

Go get em Benji, trading standards etc, try and find a friendly lawyer who could perhaps comment on all the info and knowledge on here and spyderchat and give a legal opinion.

Anonymous · July 27, 2007, 20:55

Quote from: "benji106"Heard back from the dealers today (took their sweet time) Toyota are not going to cover it under warranty because I was just over a fortnight too late
[...]
what do you lot reckon?

I reckon you should have a chat with the Trading Standards (or Office of Fair Trading) because a modern product is supposed to have a pre-defined lifespan despite the warranty. For example, TVs normally come with a one-year warranty but they (along with washing machines, etc) are expected to have a life expectancy of 8 years. Unfortunately, I'm not sure what the expected lifespan of a car is but I have a feeling this might be your best bet.

neilbro39 · July 27, 2007, 21:33

A short extract from a trading standards advice section on faulty goods:

Q. A consumer comes back to the trader about faulty goods purchased seven years ago. Does the trader have to do anything? A. A consumer cannot bring a claim to Court more than six years after the breach of contract (usually the date of delivery, in a contract for sale of goods).

Perhaps Toyota have gone over and above their legal obligations. I'm not sure if cars are any different but wouldn't have thought so.
I am in the process of doing a proper oil check for 1000 miles and will decide then if I should approach Toyota, as mine may be within their guidelines yet. My previous top ups were pure guestimates re mileage done etc. Will take me another 2-3 weeks to ramp up the necessary mileage.

Any thoughts from any of the club administrators on bringing concerns to Toyota to try and obtain some kind of official response?from all the reports the club have had on the forum there should be a fair bit of evidence.
I wouldn't wish to be presumptious as I haven't been on here that long.

Chris_h · July 27, 2007, 22:27

At least its not an Alfa.

phillywilly69 · August 10, 2007, 15:24

hi , i had trouble with my mr2 engine burning too much oil and because of tjis site i took my car to mr t and done a oil consumption test and was told ....yes i can have a re con engine fitted free !!!!!
only thing is ,about two months ago i took my pre cats out (after reading everything about them on here )and now im ****ing myself incase mr t realise the pre cats arent in and turn round and say that invalidates my warrenty
anyone have any reasurring words ? s:(

s:(

Liz · August 10, 2007, 15:40

How would they know that you took them out - they fall out on a regular basis anyway, just deny knowledge of what they even are.

Anonymous · August 10, 2007, 15:51

Just a couple of points occur here: Usually, the dealer would fit a new half engine and reuse all of the ancillary bits, including the exhaust manifold.
So, if you didn't buy the car from new you couldn't possibly know whether a previous owner removed the pre cats, so I'd stay really dumb on this one - what the hell are precats??
If you did buy the car from new, then I guess precat removal can be seen as an engine modification but the chances of a dealer checking would, in my opinion, be pretty remote.
Lastly, by doing what you've done, you've probably solved the problem anyway - enjoy s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

Anonymous · September 19, 2007, 10:03

Well, the end of this saga may be in sight at last, Im getting fed up of driving the 1.1 106 I bought as a temporary runabout while the MR2 was off the road. I sent a letter to Toyota GB on the off chance they would reconsider carrying out the work under warranty or at least splitting the cost, no joy. got a letter back a couple of weeks ago saying they had reffered it back to the toyota garage in Hedge End who sent me a letter saying tough sh*t. anyway I have bought a new 1zz-fe off ebay which should arrive today (should have got here last week but got a message saying the first engine had been damaged in transit) So im planning to swap the engine out in the next couple of weeks, then its a new cat (might get a sports exhaust system while Im at it) and ive just realised the MOT ran out while its been off the road s:(

s:( but hopefully should be back on the road next month with a markiii inlet pipe to welcome her back.

Anonymous · September 19, 2007, 18:10

Bear in mind that if your engine did go pop due to pre-cat failure, you'll need a new main cat at the time you install the new engine, or the same thing will happen straight away.

Gbirch · September 24, 2007, 20:36

Im having my new engine fitted as we speak. After reading this thread will i need a new main cat and manifold? i read contrasting opinions so would like this cleared up as i would hate the engine to fail again immediately.

My warranty claim was rejected on service history and due to the fact they could not run an oil consumption test. New engine fitted for 1150. A right kick in the nuts. Car will be for sale once its done. 83,000 miles black with red leather and A/C ill be asking 5k, is this too much in your opinions. Sorry just realised i have gone off thread. My apologies mod.

Anonymous · September 24, 2007, 21:30

You WILL need a new cat, and you WILL need to thoroughly gut your existing manifold as per the pre-cat thread.

Anonymous · September 30, 2007, 10:09

Well I'm currently in the proccess of removing the engine at the moment, a fewnuts and bolts that dont want to move, but apart from that its going alright. Quick question, What gaskets will I need to replace when I reassemble? any reccomendations on where to source them? also does anyone have any reccomendations for where to get a new main cat?

If there was any doubt that my car suffered from precat failure, when I took the main cat off large chunks of ceramic honeycombed material fell out.

Anonymous · October 16, 2007, 21:02

Firstly i'd like to thank this site for all the information I have gained over the last few weeks. My 2001 mr2 suffered the terrible oval piston syndrome and my initial thought was, oh cr*p thats gonna be a big bill! After reading this thread I contacted MrT and was pleased to find out that my car was covered, and the work was carried out at HedgeEnd Toyota. They replaced the entire short block (I hope this is correct, I don' know much about engines) and pistons etc.
MY CONCERNING QUESTION IS that despite all this work being completed I have a funny feeling my car is lacking power. The car was repaired last week and I have since covered 250 miles. It is very hard to say if I am being paranoid or the car is actually suffering power loss, but I reall feel it is not as quick. I visited the garage today to inform them of the problem and they 'claim' that the engine is fine. I asked if they checkedreplaced any cat converters and they said no, they are too ahrd to check. I asked if its possible that maybe they have not connected the spark plugs up properly (ie. the car may be running on 3 pistons. As I said, my knowledge of cars is poor so if i'm barking up the wrong tree then appologies!). They said all is fine, they will not check the cat converter until I get the gearbox looked at, as they think that any lack of power is related to a noise in the gearbox as the car accelerates. Admittedly there is a noise in the gearbox but it has been there since I bought the car and I just left it alone!
CONUNDRUM - I know that this gearbox noise may become a problem, but that aside, could this power loss be cat converter failure, and if so shall I just get someone to remove it??
Toyota did say that 'if' the lack of power was related to what I think and it causes further damage then I will still be covered under waranty for the next 12 months, I just don't fancy the idea of leaving them with my car again for 3 weeks while I don't have any courtesy car! The fact that they replaced half my engine for free is great, but the after care is pants. They didn't even give me any documents to show work had been done, nor did they explain anything to me!

Anonymous · October 16, 2007, 21:06

Hi and welcome, did toyota replace the main cat when they replaced the short block? If not your new engine is fubar as well im afraid.

Anonymous · October 16, 2007, 21:15

Take car back, demand to see a list of EXACTLY what was replaced, and if they didn't do the main cat (as Nelix says) then call them idiots and tell them you'll be back in a few months when the engine goes pop again.

Anonymous · October 16, 2007, 22:47

Hi, apparently not. According to the tech guy I spoke to, the cat is ' not something which can be checked easily'??

If it is as important as you say I will be shocked and very dissapointed with them. The garage in question is one of the biggest Toyota/Lexus garages around.

Is at all possible that a noise in the gearbox could reduce power?

Anonymous · October 16, 2007, 22:53

You have had precat failure, no one is sure if the precats break down, get sucked into the engine and kill the bores, or if oval bores allow oil onto the precats which break them up.

End result is the same, the precats have broken up and precat material and oil has blocked your main cat.

Your main cat has not been replaced, it is still blocked, therefore back pressure will have killed your new engine.

Toyota have intercoursed up, big time.

Go back asap, your new engine is fubar, sorry.

kanujunkie · October 16, 2007, 22:57

firstly the cat bit, this is easily checked by useing a boroscope or bullet camera, not something that all garages will keep i agree, what they will be looking for is the blocking of each hole in the cat, now i'm sure even your garage can do that

secondly the gearbox, a noise will not cause the gearbox to loose power, however the chances are that a blown bearings causeing the noise and that will.