Aaron gets blown (or, the Top Secret Turbo Kit thread)

ChrisGB · February 11, 2008, 23:33

Quote from: "aaronjb"
Quote from: "ChrisGB"Does that mean the ringing in your ears is replaced by a whistling?

Yep - I no longer go deaf on long drives s:) s:)

There is definitely still tuning to be done - when warm it won't hold onto an idle properly (I suspect that's the injector lag settings),

Could just need an ECU restart. The I remember reading that the PFC needs a very specific cold start, warm and idle procedure on first use so it can learn the closed loop idle control.

Chris

Tem · February 12, 2008, 08:49

Quote from: "ChrisGB"I remember reading that the PFC needs a very specific cold start, warm and idle procedure on first use so it can learn the closed loop idle control.

Yeah, it does. And it seems you get best results, if you do it again after major tuning changes around the idle area. I've done it like this:
1) Read everything from PFC to PC
2) Reset PFC through the Commander
3) Write everything back from PC to PFC
4) Do the idle learn procedure normally

I'm sure there are other ways too, but that has worked for me. s8)

s8)

aaronjb · February 12, 2008, 09:09

Yeah - it'll hold a warm idle now, so I suspect it's doing it's learning thang.. there's conflicting evidence out there, but I did read a few people suggest that (rather like the stock ECU) it's actually always learning idle - obviously it can take it longer to adjust it's already-learnt parameters after big changes.

In fact - after I put it in the first time, I never did the idle-learn procedure (there was no way I could let it idle for 30 minutes with that exhaust on s:lol: :lol: s:lol: my neighbours would have lynched me!) and after a few weeks it learnt a nice stable idle..

Tem · February 12, 2008, 10:20

Quote from: "aaronjb"Yeah - it'll hold a warm idle now, so I suspect it's doing it's learning thang.. there's conflicting evidence out there, but I did read a few people suggest that (rather like the stock ECU) it's actually always learning idle - obviously it can take it longer to adjust it's already-learnt parameters after big changes.

In fact - after I put it in the first time, I never did the idle-learn procedure (there was no way I could let it idle for 30 minutes with that exhaust on s:lol: :lol: s:lol: my neighbours would have lynched me!) and after a few weeks it learnt a nice stable idle..

It seems that it tries to learn the idle till it gets it right. After that it doesn't relearn it, unless you reset it. So if you do any major changes after the initial learning, it might not relearn.

...or it just takes longer than I had patience to wait for. s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

aaronjb · February 12, 2008, 11:39

Quote from: "Tem"...or it just takes longer than I had patience to wait for. s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

s:lol: :lol: s:lol: Well at least it's much, much, much quieter now, so 30 minutes of idling will be bearable s;)

s;)

markiii · February 12, 2008, 11:40

do it saturday whilst we fit Simons

I know just teh place to park it s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

aaronjb · February 12, 2008, 11:46

Quote from: "markiii"I know just the place to park it s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

s:lol: :lol: s:lol: Can't think where you mean! s;)

s;)

Good plan, though - perfect time to do it.

Anonymous · February 12, 2008, 16:46

Quote from: "markiii"do it saturday whilst we fit Simons

I know just the place to park it s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

You wicked man! s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:

ChrisGB · February 12, 2008, 19:23

Quote from: "aaronjb"
Quote from: "markiii"I know just the place to park it s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

s:lol: :lol: s:lol: Can't think where you mean! s;) s;)

Good plan, though - perfect time to do it.

Think it has to be a proper cold start?

Chris

aaronjb · February 18, 2008, 09:51

So we didn't get chance to do the idle-learn at the weekend, nor the O-rings.. but never mind - we did get three other cars done s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

Anyway - I had a chance to *cough* compare *cough* accelleration against Stu on the way home from Marks, and I have to say - I'm pretty pleased with how well I held up against him, considering I have no cooling whatsoever.

Apparently when I was 'on it' the entire exhaust system from the turbo down was glowing bright orange s:oops: :oops: s:oops: I think that's probably high-EGTs exacerbated by how retarded the ignition timing is with no kind of intake cooling and ~7psi of boost from a big blower s;)

s;)

Stu - what boost were you running when we were.. comparing?

kanujunkie · February 18, 2008, 13:05

Quote from: "aaronjb"Apparently when I was 'on it' the entire exhaust system from the turbo down was glowing bright orange s:oops: :oops: s:oops: I think that's probably high-EGTs exacerbated by how retarded the ignition timing is with no kind of intake cooling and ~7psi of boost from a big blower s;) s;)

Stu - what boost were you running when we were.. comparing?

is that makeing it run slightly lean? is that the cause of the extra heat as well?.

It was bright enough for me to phone Aaron on the way home and tell him, really surprising the brightness it got to

i was running 10's at the time mate, impressed by it

aaronjb · February 18, 2008, 13:28

Nah it's plenty rich on boost (11:1~10.8:1 - I'm dumping fuel to cool the cylinders), but the more you retard the ignition timing past 'optimal' the more energy you are dumping straight out of the exhaust port - that's why it feels so 'flat' in high gears at WOT - and that heats everything up something chronic.

It wouldn't surprise me if I'm seeing ~1000C at the exhaust port right now.

I really need to get that water/meth injection and/or chargecooler fitted s;)

s;)

aaronjb · February 24, 2008, 16:27

I bet you all thought I was through with updates here, didn't you.. but no!

I got the new AVC-R fitted this afternoon - actually it took part of yesteday and most of this morning to fit. I had to extend the supplied loom by about the same length again in order for it to reach anywhere useful (like the ECU and engine bay) - these things are definitely designed for cars with engines at the other end..

Anyway, after butchering the other AVC-R loom I had and doubling the length of everything, then reassembling:

Dual analogue mode (here showing boost & RPM - you could also have the gauges showing any of the 6 logged data items):

Four-channel mode (there are 6 things you can watch - the other two being solenoid duty and injector duty):

Graphing mode:

There's also an RPM-vs-[boost/duty/etc] 2-d trace mode, and it will datalog up to 60 seconds of data internally for replay in graph mode (down to 10 seconds if you log four channels).

You can have two preset boost levels ('A' and 'B'), and each of those can have different boost levels depending on both RPM and the gear you're in. Each level also has a 'scramble boost' setting triggered by an external button (e.g. a steering wheel button). All in all it's a pretty clever bit of kit.

Except I haven't bothered hooking the solenoid up yet, so it can't do any of that right now s;)

s;) There's no point until I've actually got some intake cooling in there.

Oh - washed the car, too. Naturally it started raining right after:

High res gallery here

Jaik · February 24, 2008, 16:31

The AVC-R is a brilliant bit of kit by all accounts. Will give you something to endlessly tweak if you get bored too s;)

s;)

philster_d · February 24, 2008, 17:57

Yay! go team Aaron!!

aaronjb · February 25, 2008, 11:19

Just been out for a blat and to try out a few different maps - I know which direction to go with the fuelling to sort out the idling and idle AFRs now. Also tried out a very different timing map - good pick up, but causes a lot of kangarooing in my car at low RPM - as well as a different VVT map which was very impressive.

Quote from: "kanujunkie"i was running 10's at the time mate, impressed by it

Interesting - now I know what boost I'm running, I see ~0.2Kg/cm^2 at 3000rpm up to ~0.45Kg/cm^2 at 6000rpm - that equates to about 6psi peak..

Not bad, then, considering the speed difference s;)

s;)

Once I'm actually using the boost controller that should help boost onset a lot - keeping the wastegate shut until the set boost, as it's most likely creeping open very early now (since there is zero preload on the actuator).

[edit] Oh yes - and after pumping my front tyres up from a measly 19psi (Nitrogen fills never need topping up eh Mark? s;)

s;) ) to 26psi, it no longer tramlines like a crazy demon s:D

s:D

markiii · February 25, 2008, 11:24

well never needed it when I had them :-) :-) :-)

any suscipous kids with squeeky voice in slough?

Anonymous · February 25, 2008, 12:27

AVC-R has some "learning", correct? I think you program in the boost limit and it figures out how to switch the solenoid on/off. For other boost controllers, you have to set the duty cycle.

aaronjb · February 25, 2008, 12:35

Yep - you have to set the initial duty cycle yourself so that you get more or less the boost you are looking for, then you let it self-learn the solenoid ramp times etc so that it homes in on your target boost.

aaronjb · February 27, 2008, 09:45

Ooh this arrived today - all I need now is a bit of extra pipework and the reservoir:

It's ferking huge, by the way - much bigger than I imagined 6" diameter to be - even if I did measure the car up first s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

markiii · February 27, 2008, 09:51

sounds like a plan for sunday then :-) :-) :-)

kanujunkie · February 27, 2008, 10:06

you've been a bit busy there Aaron s:shock: :shock: s:shock: and i see you dont need any help with the wireing. Did it take long then?

6psi, now that aint bad from stock s:shock: :shock: s:shock: still i feel a bit better now about the difference seeing as i've got 86K on the clock, thats 41K turbo'd and you probably have 1K turbo'd

as for the nitrogen fill, why wouldn't it leak with nitrogen, normal air is 78% nitrogen and that leaks fine, after tring the nitrogen fill i really think its overated and completely pointless on a road going car

Wabbitkilla · February 27, 2008, 10:21

Yay Aaron - looks great!

Nitrogen fill? I had it done at DemonTweeks during the meet, I only ever use the car on the road and it's great. Don't know if it's in the head, but I find the tyres far more predictable especially when being used hard.

aaronjb · February 27, 2008, 10:34

Quote from: "kanujunkie"you've been a bit busy there Aaron s:shock: :shock: s:shock: and i see you dont need any help with the wireing. Did it take long then?

I managed it all on my tod.. are you proud? s;)

s;) It did take me the best part of two days though - I had to pull out the wiring we'd already installed (d'oh), then:

Redid the actuator plumbing and reconnected the charcoal canister solenoid to the vac piping.
Feed the wire from the display down the side of the dash (loosen dash end, prod wire in, make sure it's free etc).
Run the cables down the drivers sill.
Extend the sensor & actuator harnesses by a good 1-1.5m (these are crimp connections because I ran out of patience with the soldering iron - I need to get me a set of 'helping hands' before I burn the coffee table).
Extend the ECU loom side by about 1m - I used the extension harness I'd already made for this.. and then realise I'd chopped the plug end off when I meant to chop off the socket end (as I'd socketed it).

I figured that was a good place to stop on day 1 s;)

s;)

So day 2 I pulled the Autosport harness out and swapped the socket there for a plug instead, plugged the harness in, pulled the sensor wiring through the grommet, attached the sensor plug to my extension harness (bullet connectors here, taped up and covered in corrugated plastic harness wrap).

Quote6psi, now that aint bad from stock s:shock: :shock: s:shock: still i feel a bit better now about the difference seeing as i've got 86K on the clock, thats 41K turbo'd and you probably have 1K turbo'd

Ah - but don't forget, that's 6psi at redline.. when I get my foot down and for a reasonable amount of time I'm only seeing about 4psi.. un chargecooled.. with huge ignition retard.

Ahem s:oops: :oops: s:oops: s;)

s;)

Mark - can't fit the CC this weekend as I don't have the other plumbing yet s:(

s:( I need some samco reducers (3" to 2.75" I think, but I need to check), some more 19mm hose as I doubt we have enough, elbows etc.. not to mention a reservoir of some description s;)

s;)

Incidentally - after reconnecting the charcoal canister solenoid something crossed my mind; I wonder if the PFC even has the code or driver lines to open the solenoid like the stock ECU, or if the whole thing is basically redundant now...

kanujunkie · February 27, 2008, 10:40

Quote from: "aaronjb"I managed it all on my tod.. are you proud? s;) s;)

aye s:wink: :wink: s:wink: that i am lad, you'll go far

Quote from: "aaronjb"Ah - but don't forget, that's 6psi at redline.. when I get my foot down and for a reasonable amount of time I'm only seeing about 4psi.. un chargecooled.. with huge ignition retard.

Ahem s:oops: :oops: s:oops: s;) s;)

ya bugger, mumble mumble, shakes fist in air, gets down on knees and begs Aaron for some tuning help s:wink: :wink: s:wink: